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Camino LS6

I'm so angry that I can't see straight

29 posts in this topic

I've just about reached the end of my tolerance for the way society is headed. This constant drumbeat of defeat and capitulation to the way things are makes me ill.

I think it's way past time to flip them all the bird and start making changes.

We need to toss all of the PC crap out the window, take the gloves off, and force a shift.

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Alternative fuel for internal combustion engines, not tiny cars.
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I'm in; sign me up! I keep waiting for that silent heart of America to finally say enough's enough and start taking the country back, but I'm afraid I'll never see it. Maybe it's time I start myself!

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And alternative fuel for national security.

And alternative fuel for economic strength.

And alternative fuel for the environment.

How about we work on increasing our standard of living instead of parting it out like an 88 Accord?

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I'm in; sign me up! I keep waiting for that silent heart of America to finally say enough's enough and start taking the country back, but I'm afraid I'll never see it. Maybe it's time I start myself!

It is.

When only 28% of the population even bothers to vote, it's easy to see where the blame lies.

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It is.

When only 28% of the population even bothers to vote, it's easy to see where the blame lies.

More of us vote for American Idol than for the Presidential elections. That's just sad. Still, it's not like any of the candidates are ever worth throwing your support behind.

I am convinced that sometime before I die, I will see the downfall of the current self-serving government. The former middle class will get tired of getting stepped on, and, with the help of outside inflences, obliterate Washington.

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It's time to make a national mission out of alternative fuels - ones that can be adapted to the existing fleet and eliminate oil as a political and economic ball and chain.

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There are no "alternative fuels" and never will be that will allow us to continue living the way we have. Every alt fuel requires petroleum inputs to one degree or another. Factor in EROI (Energy Return on Investment) and you quickly realize that most of these fuels we hear about on "the tube" (ethanol, bio diesel, etc) either don't scale or are energy sinks (require more energy in making it than they produce). Oil is irreplaceable. We're either going to have to conserve and start living smarter or be honest with ourselves and realize that we're going to have to get earnest about killing more of the Earth's inhabitants to get our "fair share." Sorry to sound so glum. How's that for PC?

It's time to make a national mission out of alternative fuels - ones that can be adapted to the existing fleet and eliminate oil as a political and economic ball and chain.
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There are no "alternative fuels" and never will be that will allow us to continue living the way we have. Every alt fuel requires petroleum inputs to one degree or another. Factor in EROI (Energy Return on Investment) and you quickly realize that most of these fuels we hear about on "the tube" (ethanol, bio diesel, etc) either don't scale or are energy sinks (require more energy in making it than they produce). Oil is irreplaceable. We're either going to have to conserve and start living smarter or be honest with ourselves and realize that we're going to have to get earnest about killing more of the Earth's inhabitants to get our "fair share." Sorry to sound so glum. How's that for PC?

Not true.

We can and will replace oil.

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I really hope you are right. What makes you think we will find a true replacement?

Because advances in alternative fuel technology are happening on a near daily basis and a critical mass of need and economic viability is gathering quickly.

Very simply, we must - so we will.

There are a multitude of approaches, but this is my favorite:

http://www.cheersandgears.com/forums/index...showtopic=21018

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I really hope you are right. What makes you think we will find a true replacement?

Again, I will quote myself:

I think the issue is that we as a society are so used to not having to pay for what we use in terms of the environment. Our use of gasoline has been artificially cheap at the pump for years. I hear so much against ethanol as a fuel but none of it makes sense when you look at the big picture. Sure corn based ethanol is one of the worst in terms of production efficiency but it's still cheap compared to gasoline. Don't believe me? Consider these points:

1. The most common argument against ethanol is that it takes government subsidies to make it affordable. How much did Iraq war v. 1.0 and v. 2.0 cost us? What if we had used all of that money to develop a pure ethanol infrastructure not based on corn? Why is it wrong to subsidize our farmers yet perfectly fine to send money to Shieks in Saudi Arabia or dictators in Venezuela? How much did the wars cost us in lives? How much did the wars cost us in global esteem? Osama Bin Laden's original motivating factor for attacking the US was his observations of US soldiers in Saudi Arabia during the original Gulf War; Would 9-11 even have happened? These are all costs that don't get factored into the $3.05 per gallon that people are complaining about today.

2. The second most common argument against ethanol is that it is less efficient per gallon than gasoline. This is true when you're running ethanol through an engine originally designed for gasoline. Why is it such a stretch of the imagination to consider that when you run the engine with a fuel that it was not originally designed for, you're not going to get optimum performance? If you were complaining because your turbo charged Saab wasn't getting great mileage and you were filling up with 87 instead of the manufacturer specified 91, people would call you an idiot. The compression ratio of the Impala Flex Fuel is a relatively lazy 9.8:1. Ethanol is over 100 octane. Brazillian Chevies run at a compression ratio of 12:1 on pure alcohol. The Impala Flex Fuel is literally wasting energy in order to maintain compatibility with the gasoline infrastructure. Dial up the compression on the 3.5 V6 and you'd likely not only get more power out of the engine but would probably also return mileage similar to a gas only version. Worked for the Saab BioPower.

3. The third argument against ethanol is that it stresses the food supply. This is true if you base your ethanol infrastructure on corn. The beauty of ethanol is that it can be made from a wide variety of sources. Brazil based their alcohol infrastructure on sugar. There is no global shortage of sugar. In fact sugar producers in the U.S. are doing everything in their power to keep cheaper Brazilian sugar out of our market. Among many other sources, Ethanol can be made from alge and kelp. We have a LOT of coastline in the US and kelp grows along all of it. That is all fuel out there waiting to go into your V8.

4. The fourth argument against ethanol is that it takes oil to produce ethanol. I'm not quite sure what kind of logical defect is at work with this one but it's a duesy. Sure it might take oil to get the ethanol infrastructure in place, but once up and operating, the infrastructure is self sustaining. Why can't the farm tractors, tanker trucks, in fact the entire network be powered by some sort of bio-fuel? Some might argue that it would take more energy input than you'd get with output. While this might be true with corn <the worst source>, it is not true with other ethanol sources, especially those derived from waste products.

In short, if you want to keep your V8 and not drive an Aveo, support ethanol and don't by into the hype against it.... because all it is, is hype.

Raise your hand if you don't want a big American car with a big American V8 with a 13:1 compression ratio that burns 100 octane fuel grown by Americans that costs around $2.35 a gallon and at the same time not have the U.S. participate in more mid-east wars?

*crickets chirping*

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Solar, wind, hydroelectric, and geothermal energy could easily replace petroleum as the energy sources that "make" ethanol, hydrogen fuel cells, etc. For example, the hydroelectric energy generated by the Hoover Dam provides electricity for a good portion of the state of Arizona.

The big question is: Will big oil allow such a thing to happen?

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What really has me so ticked-off is the stupidity of our so-called leaders. These idiots think that revisiting a proven failure (CAFE) is going to solve the problem. They are the most guilty of "failure mentality" and have proven that they don't believe in the resourcefulness of their own people by defaulting to this tired old idea when innovation is so deperately needed.

Their uninformed, knee-jerk responses to so many issues smack of the sort of thinking that led to the decline of far older empires.

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What really has me so ticked-off is the stupidity of our so-called leaders. These idiots think that revisiting a proven failure (CAFE) is going to solve the problem. They are the most guilty of "failure mentality" and have proven that they don't believe in the resourcefulness of their own people by defaulting to this tired old idea when innovation is so deperately needed.

Their uninformed, knee-jerk responses to so many issues smack of the sort of thinking that led to the decline of far older empires.

It would be nice if our leaders did a little "research"....

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I've just about reached the end of my tolerance for the way society is headed. This constant drumbeat of defeat and capitulation to the way things are makes me ill.

I think it's way past time to flip them all the bird and start making changes.

We need to toss all of the PC crap out the window, take the gloves off, and force a shift.

AMEN!

actually, me and my BIL were talking about this today.

cafe? fk em.

global warming? fk em.

'urban sprawl'? oh fk em.

politically correct? fk em!

Edited by regfootball
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I reached the point long ago where I'm 'comfortably numb' and really don't care anymore. I vote, I pay my taxes, and focus on improving myself and my career and don't worry about all the stuff that's wrong out there..

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I've just about reached the end of my tolerance for the way society is headed. This constant drumbeat of defeat and capitulation to the way things are makes me ill.

I think it's way past time to flip them all the bird and start making changes.

We need to toss all of the PC crap out the window, take the gloves off, and force a shift.

After 400 years there is a need for Democracy V2.0. Revolution is a must.

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The world is not ending and the country is not falling off a cliff.

I have lived in and visited some of the worst places on earth (think Saudi Arabia and Pakistan). I have been to every country in Europe, and have visited every continent on earth with the exception of Antarctica. Let me be 100% clear on this – we live in one of the best places on earth with one of the most dynamic economies the world has ever seen. I have seen what the rest of the world offers and I can tell you that we have it so much better than the vast majority of the world that frankly, most of the people on this board simply can’t comprehend it. I have seen political and religious repression that is so institutionalized that the people who suffer under said regimes have NO possibility of improving their situation. I have seen nations where economic stagnation and permanent unemployment is the de facto standard for the majority of citizens. I have seen poverty on a scale that, even when witnessed firsthand, is completely stupefying.

You worry because of a correction in the housing market and its impact on badly mismanaged equity markets? Folks, this country has seen far, far worse than what, today, really amounts to a fairly minor set of crisis. This country has survived the Great Depression, a Civil War, two World Wars and sat on the brink of nuclear annihilation for 40 years. The problems of today are neither particularly serious nor insurmountable.

However, there is one real danger that I see a lot of people succumbing to, and that is fear. Silly, irrational and largely fabricated fear. While fear politics have been used since the inception of this country, in the last five years, the psychology of fear has been hyped to such an extent that is now THE real problem. We are told to fear terrorists and are bombarded with the fear tactics of those who wish to leverage this particular bit of fear mongering for continued political gain. We are told to fear Climate Change and commit to self flagellation to repent for our grievous sins lest we be buried under 20 feet of water. We are told to fear being outsourced, mall shootings and fleshing eating bacteria. We are inundated with the politics and business of fear because it sells advertising time and promotes power without substance or merit. This has all happened before and returning public discourse to more rational terms is the great challenge of the present.

Here is how you fight back:

1. Turn off the TV, especially Fox News, MSNBC, CNN and all the rest of that garbage (and it is ALL garbage) masquerading as news. Current events, politics and information of value does not need slick graphical intro’s, theme music or “Memo’s”. You don’t need it, and it most certainly won’t help you understand the world at large or the real problems and possible solutions we are faced with.

2. Read and uncover the truth. Read newspapers online, read them in good old print. Read CNN.com, BBC news and go to the AP and Reuter’s websites, etc. Read the story from MULTIPLE sources as everyone is biased, including you. Reading information from multiple sources helps to give you a more balanced view, but most importantly, helps you understand how others view the same information. Only after reading about something should you watch CNN, MSNBC, Fox News, etc.

3. Study history. This is a really valuable thing to do as it really helps to provide perspective (and again, apply the same diligence of vetting sources to historical information as you do to current events). Looking at current events through the lens of history can really provide the continuity that makes understanding the where and why of our current situations a lot clearer.

4. Understand that the politicians and the Media (including Hollywood) are not smarter or better educated than you are. Most politicians, actors and “journalists” are sides of the same coin. Often, it is said that if you can’t do it, you teach it – well that’s really not the case as many teachers are actually pretty competent people. The truth is, if you can’t do it, then you act. If you can’t act, then you write about it. Finally, if you can’t act or write, then you run for office. Always keep this in mind because, by and large, the media, Hollywood and our politicians are some of the least genuinely intelligent and most poorly educated people in this country. So take everything they say with a grain of salt, as half the time they can’t even articulate their own positions properly.

5. Have confidence in your fellow Americans. Most people in this country really are not stupid or lazy, despite what politicians, the media and Hollywood would like you to believe. Your fellow Americans, by and large, are a generally hard working, introspective and will try and make the best decisions they can. Most importantly, help the people around you understand your point of view, but always be willing to listen to theirs.

6. Do what you think is right, and keep doing it (provided it doesn’t involve blowing up public buildings). Run for public office, even if it’s just for your town council or similar small office. Start a blog and respectfully present your opinions. Don’t underestimate your ability to make a difference – this ability is very real and it’s something I have seen oppressive governments of this world work extremely hard to subdue.

These are my thoughts; take them for what they are worth. That said, don’t let despair, apathy and fear shape your view of this country as it deserves better than that (and so do you).

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So, Camino, are you pissed about technology, alternative fuels, CAFE, or all of the above?

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I hear you Camino... sometimes I think that movie "Idiocracy" will become a reality soon!

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The world is not ending and the country is not falling off a cliff.

I have lived in and visited some of the worst places on earth (think Saudi Arabia and Pakistan). I have been to every country in Europe, and have visited every continent on earth with the exception of Antarctica. Let me be 100% clear on this – we live in one of the best places on earth with one of the most dynamic economies the world has ever seen. I have seen what the rest of the world offers and I can tell you that we have it so much better than the vast majority of the world that frankly, most of the people on this board simply can’t comprehend it. I have seen political and religious repression that is so institutionalized that the people who suffer under said regimes have NO possibility of improving their situation. I have seen nations where economic stagnation and permanent unemployment is the de facto standard for the majority of citizens. I have seen poverty on a scale that, even when witnessed firsthand, is completely stupefying.

You worry because of a correction in the housing market and its impact on badly mismanaged equity markets? Folks, this country has seen far, far worse than what, today, really amounts to a fairly minor set of crisis. This country has survived the Great Depression, a Civil War, two World Wars and sat on the brink of nuclear annihilation for 40 years. The problems of today are neither particularly serious nor insurmountable.

However, there is one real danger that I see a lot of people succumbing to, and that is fear. Silly, irrational and largely fabricated fear. While fear politics have been used since the inception of this country, in the last five years, the psychology of fear has been hyped to such an extent that is now THE real problem. We are told to fear terrorists and are bombarded with the fear tactics of those who wish to leverage this particular bit of fear mongering for continued political gain. We are told to fear Climate Change and commit to self flagellation to repent for our grievous sins lest we be buried under 20 feet of water. We are told to fear being outsourced, mall shootings and fleshing eating bacteria. We are inundated with the politics and business of fear because it sells advertising time and promotes power without substance or merit. This has all happened before and returning public discourse to more rational terms is the great challenge of the present.

Here is how you fight back:

1. Turn off the TV, especially Fox News, MSNBC, CNN and all the rest of that garbage (and it is ALL garbage) masquerading as news. Current events, politics and information of value does not need slick graphical intro’s, theme music or “Memo’s”. You don’t need it, and it most certainly won’t help you understand the world at large or the real problems and possible solutions we are faced with.

2. Read and uncover the truth. Read newspapers online, read them in good old print. Read CNN.com, BBC news and go to the AP and Reuter’s websites, etc. Read the story from MULTIPLE sources as everyone is biased, including you. Reading information from multiple sources helps to give you a more balanced view, but most importantly, helps you understand how others view the same information. Only after reading about something should you watch CNN, MSNBC, Fox News, etc.

3. Study history. This is a really valuable thing to do as it really helps to provide perspective (and again, apply the same diligence of vetting sources to historical information as you do to current events). Looking at current events through the lens of history can really provide the continuity that makes understanding the where and why of our current situations a lot clearer.

4. Understand that the politicians and the Media (including Hollywood) are not smarter or better educated than you are. Most politicians, actors and “journalists” are sides of the same coin. Often, it is said that if you can’t do it, you teach it – well that’s really not the case as many teachers are actually pretty competent people. The truth is, if you can’t do it, then you act. If you can’t act, then you write about it. Finally, if you can’t act or write, then you run for office. Always keep this in mind because, by and large, the media, Hollywood and our politicians are some of the least genuinely intelligent and most poorly educated people in this country. So take everything they say with a grain of salt, as half the time they can’t even articulate their own positions properly.

5. Have confidence in your fellow Americans. Most people in this country really are not stupid or lazy, despite what politicians, the media and Hollywood would like you to believe. Your fellow Americans, by and large, are a generally hard working, introspective and will try and make the best decisions they can. Most importantly, help the people around you understand your point of view, but always be willing to listen to theirs.

6. Do what you think is right, and keep doing it (provided it doesn’t involve blowing up public buildings). Run for public office, even if it’s just for your town council or similar small office. Start a blog and respectfully present your opinions. Don’t underestimate your ability to make a difference – this ability is very real and it’s something I have seen oppressive governments of this world work extremely hard to subdue.

These are my thoughts; take them for what they are worth. That said, don’t let despair, apathy and fear shape your view of this country as it deserves better than that (and so do you).

one of the best posts I have ever seen. thanks.

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Well, part of the solution may be happening at work. We are currently running a test on our C-17s to use a synthetic fuel blend. And it is going very well. We expect to convert all of the fleet by about 2013. Why so long? We had a massive issue converting C141s from JP4 to JP8. This conversion seems to be going better.

Just think, if the Air Force, probably the highest user of fuels, converts to synthetics and alternative fuels, what will that help?

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So, Camino, are you pissed about technology, alternative fuels, CAFE, or all of the above?

Mostly the pervasive stupidity and the self-sabotaging BS accepted as unavoidable fate.

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