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Better than the apocalypse some on WS were projecting.

Other than Avalanche and Silverado, none of the biggies got brutalized as much as we can think of. Equinox and HHR keeping on gaining.

Wonder what is wrong with the Impala. Malibu is only ~13K - they need more. Collectively GM lost almost 30% of the market in mid sizers despite gain in Malibu Numbers. Is Malibu still supply hampered because of the strike?

Edited by michaelv13
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Yes but let's kill Pontiac anyway :rolleyes:

Yes because Pontiac is CAR, and now that the market is shifting back to cars from trucks, doesn't it make sense to get rid of Pontiac? Lets get rid of the SRX too, since it almost outsold the Escalade for the month. There's a bunch of geniuses running GM right now isn't there? :rolleyes:

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Yes because Pontiac is CAR, and now that the market is shifting back to cars from trucks, doesn't it make sense to get rid of Pontiac? Lets get rid of the SRX too, since it almost outsold the Escalade for the month. There's a bunch of geniuses running GM right now isn't there? :rolleyes:

Even with all the doom and gloom forecast over the company, I hope this is just a holding pattern...

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Well Toyota took it in the pants too. Guess even with a bunch of "green" cars they still couldn't shove them out the door fast enough. Honestly another solid effort by GM. Think what a few new products could do for them... Wonders. Seriously.

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Hybrid sales are gaining momentum, too...

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/07/01/gm...on-1-149-in-ju/

GM hybrid finally starting to get a little traction, 1,149 in June

With five hybrid models on the market now and at least four more coming before the end of the year, General Motors' hybrid sales are looking less ugly than they did in the first three months of 2008. GM is still no threat to Toyota or even Ford, but sales have been steady (if slow) for the last couple of months. For the first time in their monthly sales report for June, GM has explicitly said how many hybrids were sold. Amidst truck sales that were down 39 percent compared to June 2007, GM declared that it sold 1,149 hybrids in June for a total of 4,376 during the first half of the year.

Out of that total, the Tahoe and Yukon Two-mode hybrids accounted for 547 sales, with the Malibu and Vue mild hybrids taking 295 and 277 respectively. A grand total of thirty buyers opted for the Saturn Aura hybrid. The last time that hybrid sales were mentioned for April, about the same number of Two-mode and mild hybrid models were sold. So far, in a market where hybrids are flying off the lots of most dealers who offer them, GM's pricey two-mode trucks and tepid mild hybrids have been also rans. It will be interesting to watch and see if the significantly cheaper Chrysler hybrid SUVs can draw more interest when they appear at dealers this summer followed by the smaller Saturn Vue Two-mode later this fall.

If you must have a Tahoe, the $4000 rebate and $2200 tax credit make choosing the hybrid a no-brainer, though it will still be more expensive than a Lambda, which has the same combined fuel economy and more interior room. Lutz says GM can make 10,000 two-mode GMT900s a year; more of that capacity should be given to hybridizing the Silverado and Sierra pickups, which have no crossover alternatives.

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Kudos to GM is deserved...I think they beat every experts' estimates.

The Yearly Sales rate is scary, but its a reprieve from all of the bad news and they do deserve credit for a job done.

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They'll need more than 1500 Sales of Hybrids soon... The Volt should ease that though.

By the time the Volt finally gets here, GM will be an afterthought amongst hybrid buyers who have seen the Prius on roads for the better part of a decade. Hybrids are a mostly unknown quantity, and the Toyota hybrids have a track record, GM doesn't Plus, the Volt is going to be pricey.

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(START RANT)

Satty your are a Prius owner after-all. A car I would never even dream of owning. (Even in my wildest ones.) I would take the decent looking Volt with a Chevy badge and support an American company any day of the evil of Toyota. Then again my daddy taught me a few things, never ever son buy a Jap car, never ever vote for a liberal and never ever give the goverment any extra power. I have followed all three of his rules my entrie life and have lived wonderfully. Oh and the only two payments you should ever is a house/apartment and a car. Then again I am good ol' boy from the country and I like it that way. :AH-HA_wink: :P Then again I see lots of hope for the Volt. I don't care what you or the people hating on the Volt would say. Some people I know would never sell-out and get a forigen car and this country needs more honest folks like that. Gee support an American corperation or one across the pond... Gee I think this is why we have such a trade issue.

(END RANT)

**Thanks for listening**

Edited by gm4life
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By the time the Volt finally gets here, GM will be an afterthought amongst hybrid buyers who have seen the Prius on roads for the better part of a decade. Hybrids are a mostly unknown quantity, and the Toyota hybrids have a track record, GM doesn't Plus, the Volt is going to be pricey.

The hybrid market will continue to increase in size as gas costs rise. More and more buyers will want hybrids. When Toyota started out, they were an afterthought, too, in any part of the market. At least GM has presence in the market. I fail to see why it will be so difficult for GM to crack the market, especially with a good marketing program and an almost guaranteed increase in demand for hybrids.

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The hybrid market will continue to increase in size as gas costs rise. More and more buyers will want hybrids. When Toyota started out, they were an afterthought, too, in any part of the market. At least GM has presence in the market. I fail to see why it will be so difficult for GM to crack the market, especially with a good marketing program and an almost guaranteed increase in demand for hybrids.

point taken, I beleive GM will not have a problem gaining a footing, so long as some time in the near future they freakin allow themselves to do it by making the car. Volt won't be it if it's going to be $30k or $40k, unless the tax rebates go way up, something we might be able to anticipate with Dems in control. but the underlying point is why must GM, the biggest car company in the world, always allow other carmakers to eat up the market for so long and then finally ten years later come up with something neither innovative nor original, just thier successful take on the original formula. all the image boosts rightfully go to the other car companies, because they were thier first and in bigger quantities, more known entities. then you have clinic cases here complainiing about image and perception boost of the other, more capable companies.

Edited by turbo200
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The hybrid market will continue to increase in size as gas costs rise. More and more buyers will want hybrids.

I think OEMs should be careful in their assessment of how easy it is to sell hybrids. Here's something from a survey by PwC in Europe. The document is called The automotive industry and climate change - Framework and dynamics of the CO2 ®evolution:

Just 10% of those interested in hybrid cars would consider buying one regardless of the difference in price. Three percent found that an additional 500 euros was too much to pay for a hybrid, 18% would not pay more than 1,000 euros extra. A further 10% said that had set their limit at about 1,500 euros and an extra charge of 2,000 euros would be too much for 23% of interested respondents. A further 29% ‘abandon ship’ when the price difference goes above 2,000 euros.

American buyers are known to be much more price/deal sensitive than Europeans, so the reluctance to pay a significant price premium for a hybrid vehicle would probably be larger in a US survey.

Re sales, GM did a good job given the state of the market and its product mix.

Edited by ZL-1
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Certainly not as scary as it could have been. But how the hell is the Aveo down?! New Cobalt needed NOW too.

PS: Mod's. Can the 07 Sales threads be archived as in previous years? Getting kinda long up there. ;)

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Pontiac retail sales up 14 percent driven by G6 up 27 percent, Vibe up 24 percent, G5 and Solstice up 6 percent

Saturn retail sales up 9 percent with Vue up 100 percent, Sky up 66 percent and Aura up 45 percent

And which division is GM thinking about phasing out again?

I also find it funny that the two divisions that are down THE MOST are 1) Saab which is off by a whopping 29% and 2) Saturn which is off by almost 19%.

Yet GM, in their myriad stupidity insists that CORE DIVISIONS must go.

And, for some reason GM is STILL selling LESS Aveos than they were a year ago... Hmmm... Excellent job with that redesign Korea.

And the Equinox is only up by 1%... WTF?

Canyon and Colorado, despite being where the market is going, are both getting killed.

Despite Saturn supposedly being the new star of GM, Outlook is getting killed and the brand spankin' new Vue isn't outselling the OLD Vue.

Wow... Just wow...

I think we need new management asap.

Edited by FUTURE_OF_GM
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I think OEMs should be careful in their assessment of how easy it is to sell hybrids. Here's something from a survey by PwC in Europe. The document is called The automotive industry and climate change - Framework and dynamics of the CO2 ®evolution:

American buyers are known to be much more price/deal sensitive than Europeans, so the reluctance to pay a significant price premium for a hybrid vehicle would probably be larger in a US survey.

Re sales, GM did a good job given the state of the market and it's product mix.

But it's fashionable to buy a hybrid here. That will be the selling point. As long as american *THINK* their helping the environment and the GET the approval of their friends, everything else is chalked up to nonexistent.

I mean, after all, most of them are too ignorant to actually know the facts.

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But it's fashionable to buy a hybrid here. That will be the selling point. As long as american *THINK* their helping the environment and the GET the approval of their friends, everything else is chalked up to nonexistent.

I mean, after all, most of them are too ignorant to actually know the facts.

Let's not be too harsh on the 'ignorance' of consumers. Although CR and others are pushing hard for the hybrids, the fact of the matter is that even after 10 years of sales, the hybrids are a fraction of the car market, let alone the over all vehicle market.

More and more I am seeing consumers confused and even frightened by what is happening out there. On the one hand, they hear a lot of things about hybrids, but they are naturally wary of new technologies. Having personally weather the 8-track/cassette-beta/VHS-laserdisc/DVD wars, I can say from a degree of authority that jumping on the bandwagon of the 'next big thing' can often lead to ruin - or at the very least financial frustration.

I see people asking a lot of questions and really thinking about their next vehicle purchase. I think that is a good thing. At $5.25 a gallon, Canadians are becoming more gun shy. A customer who purchased a Maxx from me 3 years ago is frustrated because every car he likes runs on premium gas. He told me today his next car will be a CTS because he is 'sick to death' of the the imports building cars that only run on premium. He told me a story about a co-worker who was crying the blues because his Audi only runs on premium. My customer was flabbergasted that people don't ask the right questions.

I guess at $2.50 a gallon, those questions didn't matter, but at $5 they do.

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And which division is GM thinking about phasing out again?

I also find it funny that the two divisions that are down THE MOST are 1) Saab which is off by a whopping 29% and 2) Saturn which is off by almost 19%.

Yet GM, in their myriad stupidity insists that CORE DIVISIONS must go.

And, for some reason GM is STILL selling LESS Aveos than they were a year ago... Hmmm... Excellent job with that redesign Korea.

And the Equinox is only up by 1%... WTF?

Canyon and Colorado, despite being where the market is going, are both getting killed.

Despite Saturn supposedly being the new star of GM, Outlook is getting killed and the brand spankin' new Vue isn't outselling the OLD Vue.

Wow... Just wow...

I think we need new management asap.

The 4 door Aveo was merely 'facelifted' last year. The 5 door gets the major redo with new engine, facia, interior, etc. That vehicle has not hit the stands yet. At least around here, GM didn't really support the Aveo and pushed the snot out of the G5/Cobalt, which has catapulted to the #2 selling vehicle in Canada this year. GM's timing with the 'new'Aveo is excellent for the Great White North, plus these are going to be built in Mexico, which will cut the order time by about a month.

The Equinox is getting old. Sad to day, after only 4 years, but this is a very crowded market. The Rondo, Sante Fe, new CR-V, facelifted Escape, new Jeep offerings. Frankly, I am surprised the 'Nox is selling at all!

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I also find it funny that the two divisions that are down THE MOST are 1) Saab which is off by a whopping 29% and 2) Saturn which is off by almost 19%.

When I looked at the charts, Saturn actually had the smalles drop in sales of any brand. The problem brands(in alphabetical order) were Buick, Hummer, and Saab.

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FOG will appreciate this one

If you're pondering auto sales, just be accurate

Boy, June's dismal sales numbers sure do have the daily newspaper scribes and TV talking heads in a tizzy. Who can blame 'em? June sales numbers are terrible and our news media "professionals" love nothing better than good ol' juicy bad news.

There's the doom and gloom we've come to expect from the print and TV dudes and, yup, there's the oh-so-predictable Chicken Little Sky-Is-Falling quotes from analysts--most who think all cars are yellow and ride in the back.

Here's the problem, again: The news stories are seriously slanted toward this being a problem for the domestic auto industry. That's predictable coverage, but not accurate. Sales indeed suck-but there were a hell of lot more than the Detroit 3 who reported dismal sales numbers.

Want examples:

-- In June, sales of the Dodge Ram were down 48 percent, sale of the Chevrolet Silverado were down 23.7 percent and sales of the once-mighty Ford F-Series were down 40.5 percent. Ouch!

-- How'd media darling Toyota do? It had its share of losers, too, with Lexus division sales down 25 percent, Scion down 5 percent and Toyota division sales down 20 percent. How did the Tundra, Toyota's big pickup, do? Ahem: Down 52 percent.

I'm not picking on Toyota, but with those numbers why do I read headlines such as "U.S. Automakers Woes Worsen"? C'mon guys, it ain't just Detroit woes. Can we have a little fairness?

It is beyond time for those who cover the car business only when the news is bad to realize that Toyota has become just another enormous faceless automaker, one that's cranking out as fast as it can what it thinks its customers want to buy. Until recently, that was big pickup trucks and sport/utility vehicles.

Just like the domestics.

The bigger they are the harder they fall and all that.

Bottom line: I don't expect pro-domestic coverage from my favorite daily news sources, but I damn well expect fair coverage. And you should to.

In fact we should demand it.

AutoWeek | Updated: 07/02/08, 5:18 pm et

Article URL: http://autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?.../FREE/527399177

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FOG will appreciate this one

STOP BLAMING THE MEDIA FOR DETROIT'S FAILURES.

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STOP BLAMING THE MEDIA FOR DETROIT'S FAILURES.

I'm not sure if you were addressing me or not. If you were; I neither blame the media nor do I excuse them. As a matter of fact I am not even claiming that there is a failure here.

Sincerely,

John McCain and Senator Obama

:AH-HA_wink:

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I'm not sure if you were addressing me or not. If you were; I neither blame the media nor do I excuse them. As a matter of fact I am not even claiming that there is a failure here.

Sincerely,

John McCain and Senator Obama

:AH-HA_wink:

Very Truly Yours,

Los Angeles Times, New York Times, Toronto Star, Consumer's Reports............

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STOP BLAMING THE MEDIA FOR DETROIT'S FAILURES.

Why?

The media certainly is/was/will be a LARGE part of the problem.

Besides, no one is blaming them for Detroit's failures, we're blaming them for their continued incompetence and failure to fairly report news. (Something that is so easy to do that it's harder to report BIASED news)

Edited by FUTURE_OF_GM
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Malibu numbers are strange. They should be selling like gangbusters.

I think the Malibu is going to have a real tough time gaining the kind of traction it needs to have Camry/Accord monthly numbers in the current US market place. People who are blowing $25k+ on a regular old 4 door sedan like the Malibu either a) has no idea it exists b) doesn't trust that GM (or any other American car company) can build a better car than Toyota or Honda, or c) is holding off for the economy to turn around or d) all of the above. I had this gut feeling that the Malibu wouldn't do as well as GM hoped it would. I don't think it's going to be as big of a sales flop as the GTO, but I don't think it will outsell the Camry anytime soon.

First of all, as we've all talked about on here in the past - the perception problem is absolutely killing GM right now. I talked to this guy Wednesday at work (who is an actual honest to God car guy). This guy has a full size Chevy Silverado (2004) which he absolutely loves, and his wife drives a VW Jetta. We were on the topic of mid size cars, and he is absolutely convinced, without even driving it, that the Malibu is "probably not as good" as an Altima, Accord or Camry. He loves his Chevy truck (and GM cars from the 60s, but who doesn't), but is convinced that their mid size cars will simply not perform or feel as nice as a comparable Japanese car. There's soooooo many people who feel this way that buy these types of bread and butter sedans, that GM is going to have to essentially give them away in order to sell 30,000+ a month like the Camry. It's sad, it's amazing (considering GM's history and depth), but I'm beginning to think that it's an absolute fact that GM is just going to have to live with.

Like I've written before, GM needs much better marketing. Their marketing blows. The Malibu is a good product - but I think the price needs to be lowered on it. I know the transaction prices are higher than the old ones, but they're still only pushing 15,000 of them out the door each month. I think if they lowered the price about $2500, advertised it like mad, and I mean like completely inundating the airwaves and TV with ads showing just how it beat the Camry in various road tests, has a more appealing interior, tighter panel gaps, etc, etc...and showed off how much car you get for the money backed by GM's 100k mile warranty - and really pushed that warranty with this product - then maybe you'd get the thing up to 25k a month or so, which is a lot more respectable. Also, with more of them on the streets, you get more "Chevy actually builds cars, sedans" brand awareness. They need it bad - especially here in Houston - where if you see a Chevy product, it's typically a truck or a Tahoe.

Edited by gmcbob
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I think the Malibu is going to have a real tough time gaining the kind of traction it needs to have Camry/Accord monthly numbers in the current US market place. People who are blowing $25k+ on a regular old 4 door sedan like the Malibu either a) has no idea it exists b) doesn't trust that GM (or any other American car company) can build a better car than Toyota or Honda, or c) is holding off for the economy to turn around or d) all of the above. I had this gut feeling that the Malibu wouldn't do as well as GM hoped it would. I don't think it's going to be as big of a sales flop as the GTO, but I don't think it will outsell the Camry anytime soon.

The Malibu is a good product - but I think the price needs to be lowered on it. I know the transaction prices are higher than the old ones, but they're still only pushing 15,000 of them out the door each month.

The reason why the Malibu June numbers may look low is because of the UAW strike on the main Malibu plant back in may.

Edited by Toyota.vs.GM
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