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cletus8269

Cali fornia leads the way

36 posts in this topic

now we base laws on something not definatively backed by scientific proof? :rolleyes:

OAKLAND, Calif. -- California is making it mandatory for cars to be labeled with global warming scores, figures that take into account emissions from vehicle use and fuel production.

The law requiring the labels goes into effect at the start of next year for all 2009 model cars, though its expected the labels will be popping up on cars in the coming months.

The labeling law forces cars for sale to display a global warming score, on a scale of one to 10, which is based on how vehicles in the same model year compare to one another. The higher the score, the cleaner a car is. The score takes into account emissions related to production of fuel for each vehicle as well as the direct emissions from vehicles.

The score will be displayed next to the already-required smog score, which also rates cars one to 10 for how many smog-forming emissions they emit. For both scores, an average vehicle will have a score of five.

California is the first state of pass such as law, and a similar law will take effect in New York for 2010 model year vehicles. Global warming scores will be included on the state's DriveClean website.

While this law is intended to help consumers take into account emissions while purchasing cars, a proposed law in the European Union would require E.U. public sector bodies put a price on emissions.

A law endorsed by the European Parliament's Committee on Environment, Public Health and Food Safety would make governments put a monetary cost on the emissions of vehicles they plan to purchase, and add that to expense calculations. The law would exclude certain types of vehicles, such as ambulances and fire trucks.

http://www.greenbiz.com/news/2008/07/07/ca...l-warming-score

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Yes, there is a lot of proof. I've been a skeptic for a long time on this, but we do need to lessen whatever impact it is we are making on the planet. I don't think there's anyone out there who seriously believes we are making zero impact on the global environment, so we should at least try to lessen it.

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Well guess what: there definately are people who seriously believe humans cannot have a measurable effect on climate change- a lot of them. I not heard that even a single point of "proof" has been unilaterally agreed apon, either.

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Well guess what: there definately are people who seriously believe humans cannot have a measurable effect on climate change- a lot of them. I not heard that even a single point of "proof" has been unilaterally agreed apon, either.

Yes, lots of delusional people in the world. I have no idea how much of an effect humans have on the climate, but I'm sure there is some measurable impact that the billions of people and manufacturing, transportation, etc have had on the climate since the beginning of the industrial age...

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Well guess what: there definately are people who seriously believe humans cannot have a measurable effect on climate change- a lot of them. I not heard that even a single point of "proof" has been unilaterally agreed apon, either.

I said "zero impact" now didn't I?

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I am following the ongoing G8 summit in Japan. Japan and Europe are pressing for more 'carbon taxes,' while Canada and the US are dubious. Finally, officials are waking up to the fact that unless China and India are signatories to ANY agreement, it doesn't matter a hill of beans what California, or North America does.

Frankly, I am getting more and more disgusted with all of this stuff about 'global warming' and food shortages, etc. Things were fine until India and China decided they wanted to go all middle class on us. Sure, they have a right to pursue liberty and happiness (whatever the hell that means!) like the rest of us, but we also have the right to tell them to zipper their pants! Everything we buy is going to suddenly get very expensive because Asia and south Asia suddenly have money (our money, I might add) and are going on shopping sprees.

Why are we suddenly fighting over diminishing oil and foodstocks, not to mention other resources like zinc, copper, nickel, etc. when the REAL solution would be for about half a billion Chinese and Indians to go away? Fat chance. Like that is going to happen, without a famine or war.

California can do what it wants, but as usual this is just more window dressing.

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so many things wrong with this bull$h! its not even funny but look where its coming from. no need to explain it, after you take that into account.

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this wouldn't be a problem if the EPA was shut down and people/businesses could be taken to court for REAL pollution.....not just handing them fees to pay.

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Yes, there is a lot of proof. I've been a skeptic for a long time on this, but we do need to lessen whatever impact it is we are making on the planet. I don't think there's anyone out there who seriously believes we are making zero impact on the global environment, so we should at least try to lessen it.

Well guess what: there definately are people who seriously believe humans cannot have a measurable effect on climate change- a lot of them. I not heard that even a single point of "proof" has been unilaterally agreed apon, either.

Yes, lots of delusional people in the world. I have no idea how much of an effect humans have on the climate, but I'm sure there is some measurable impact that the billions of people and manufacturing, transportation, etc have had on the climate since the beginning of the industrial age...

eh, maybe i should have specified with that opening statement. Al Gore's mew religion is a farse, i do believe we are irrepairably damaging the planet at an alarming rate but as far as ice caps and glaciers and we're all gonna fry or drown... records show a history of all thats taking place now, taking place eons ago. where did the great lakes come from? retreating glaciers... what caused that global warming?

Edited by cletus8269
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I'm so glad that I don't live in California... or Europe for that matter.

Half-baked window dressing BS. :rolleyes:

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eh, maybe i should have specified with that opening statement. Al Gore's mew religion is a farse, i do believe we are irrepairably damaging the planet at an alarming rate but as far as ice caps and glaciers and we're all gonna fry or drown... records show a history of all thats taking place now, taking place eons ago. where did the great lakes come from? retreating glaciers... what caused that global warming?

Bingo.

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good news is, a vehicle like the prius will lose a lot of sales over such a sticker... it will hurt any vehicle with a large battery in it... and cali is the number one place toyota does business if i remember correctly... this could be a good thing or a bad thing who knows... it doesnt really favor any one automaker, except might help with GM if they truely dont have land fills anymore and they have started using solar power as they had said they were going to...

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Well guess what: there definately are people who seriously believe humans cannot have a measurable effect on climate change- a lot of them.

I said "zero impact" now didn't I?

Well, if you can't measure it (like I said), how do you know it's NOT zero ? :scratchchin:

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I look forward to the day of ultimate Irony when California sinks into the Pacific.

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I look forward to the day of ultimate Irony when California sinks into the Pacific.

:cheers:

or in that end of the world flash animation, goes to hang with hawaii... alaska can come too.

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California is the most progressive state in the Union. As usual, the rest of the country will come around eventually.

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Well, if you can't measure it (like I said), how do you know it's NOT zero ? :scratchchin:

Re-read my original post, quoted below (emphasis added):

Yes, there is a lot of proof. I've been a skeptic for a long time on this, but we do need to lessen whatever impact it is we are making on the planet. I don't think there's anyone out there who seriously believes we are making zero impact on the global environment, so we should at least try to lessen it.

I can see a measurable difference in the air quality of Los Angeles between now and prior to the Clean Air Act.

From when CFCs were targeted in the late 1980s until now, the hole in the ozone layer trended toward closing--optimistic predictions said around 2050. Is that just a strange coincidence?

Polar ice caps have always formed and shrunk as part of the natural cycle; no one disputes that. What is disputed is whether or not the marked increase in accelerated depletion of the polar ice caps is attributable to humans. Those who think so cite the fact that this marked acceleration perfectly coincides with the onset of the industrial revolution.

Another indisputable fact is that the sun's intensity is a lot greater today than it was 50 years ago. The reason the push for SPF is so great these days is because of the state of the ozone layer: less UV light is being filtered out before it reaches us on the ground. The ozone hole is over New Zealand and southern Chile--it isn't just a funny coincidence that those two areas have the highest rates of skin cancer in the world.

Now, do I agree with the Al Gore hysteria? No. But there is definitely some truth in it, and we have a responsibility to try and do something to reverse it. Previous generations were ignorant as to the effects of industry on the planet--but the greater crime is to know what we do actually know today, and choose to ignore it for selfish reasons.

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>>"From when CFCs were targeted in the late 1980s until now, the hole in the ozone layer trended toward closing--optimistic predictions said around 2050. Is that just a strange coincidence?"<<

>>"this marked acceleration perfectly coincides with the onset of the industrial revolution."<<

Again- where is the proof? 'Coinciding' is not scientific proof, it's an assumption. Is it unreasonable to request facts of Science?

BTW- the ozonelayer/CFC scenario is almost as riddled with questionable claims and theories as global warming. Levels of UV-B radiation (screened by ozone) reaching Earth has been trending downward for the last 60 years. Chlorine (a component of CFCs) is blamed for the ozone issue, yet the world's ocean's emit on the order of 80,000 times the levels of chlorine than CFCs did before being checked.

What were the status's of international patent rights to CFC production circa 1990?? Follow the money...

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And how exactly can the ozone hole be closing if China emits more CFCs than we did 20 years ago? They still use freon over there, BTW.

Again, 3 or 4 billion people can do what they want on this planet. Seven billion cannot. It just pisses me off that I will probably have to drive a go-kart one day soon because 1.3 billion Chinese want to be middle class.

That is the real elephant in the room.

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I look forward to the day of ultimate Irony when California sinks into the Pacific.

This is highly unlikely. California is a very mountainous state. Luckily, most of the low-lying "rest of the country" will disappear into the oceans first.

What makes people outside of California so ignorant? Really, I am serious here. Is it in your water or what? Global warming may not be definitively proven but it’s the best theory out there. What theory do you guys ascribe to? That we have absolutely no effect on the atmosphere? Were your forefathers the same people that thought the whales and buffalo would last forever too? Luckily, someone stepped in and stepped up.

America and the rest

dumfuckistan.gif

Edited by SoCalCTS
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Agreed.

Balthazar: When you put a positively-charged magnet next to another positively-charged magnet, the repelling perfectly coincides with the placement. Clearly there's no correlation whatsoever :rolleyes:

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California is the most obnoxious state in the Union. As usual, the rest of the country will come around eventually.

Fixed.

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This is highly unlikely. California is a very mountainous state. Luckily, most of the low-lying "rest of the country" will disappear into the oceans first.

What makes people outside of California so ignorant? Really, I am serious here. Is it in your water or what? Global warming may not be definitively proven but it’s the best theory out there. What theory do you guys ascribe to? That we have absolutely no effect on the atmosphere? Were your forefathers the same people that thought the whales and buffalo would last forever too? Luckily, someone stepped in and stepped up.

America and the rest

dumfuckistan.gif

Poor guy, all the heat from those forest fires must be getting to you. :smilewide:

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Were your forefathers the same people that thought the whales and buffalo would last forever too? Luckily, someone stepped in and stepped up.

thats right, now that we cut back on whaling, japan has doubled their efforts... endangered species be darned.

no amount of policing by a handful of nations will offset the rest of the world, it helps but we are just turning into the wind and dropping our collective pants in the long run.

Edited by cletus8269
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