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Duh: Cadillac shelves that whole V12 thing


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Posted Aug 21st 2008 3:29PM by Jeremy Korzeniewski

Filed under: Concept Cars, Sedans/Saloons, I.C.E., Cadillac

caddyv12om7.jpg

750-hp 7.5-liter V12 from the Cadillac Cien concept

Here's a shocker: Cadillac has reportedly canceled plans for a range-topping V12 engine. Really, you don't say? Last we checked, General Motors didn't seem to have any problems extracting plenty of performance from its 6.2-liter supercharged and 7.0-liter naturally aspirated V8 engines, and the majority of the development work has already been done for a Caddy installation. Additionally, we've heard some rumors of a possible twin-turbo version of GM's excellent 3.6-liter direct injection six, which could find a cozy spot under the hood of the next Cadillac sedan.

Cadillac is also said to be reconsidering its premium large sedan, where the V12 was originally intended to reside. In its stead, GM's classiest division will focus in on the replacement for the STS and DTS sedans. Also rumored is a new naming convention, as if the waters weren't already murky enough. Will the next Caddy sedan be known as the DT7? We sure hope not. Will it be based on the new Zeta platform? Well now... that decision would get our seal of approval.

Link: http://www.autoblog.com/2008/08/21/duh-cad...hole-v12-thing/

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So there are 2 Zetas at Cadillac?

The ULS (Which I thought had been shelved LONG ago) and the DTS/STS replacement?

Yeah... We don't really need a V12 right now. But it is a shame that it didn't see the light of day because it would've given Cadillac an image boost on the technology and prestige scale.

I certainly hope the next naming scheme isn't the stupid DT7 :bs: that we've read about.

Edited by FUTURE_OF_GM
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Cadillac should have a V12 if it ever wants to build a vehicle to compete directly with the 7er and S-Class, but right now that vehicle is probably an afterthought.

I agree... and in limited qualities... and it doesn't necessarily need to be 7.5 liters (unless they went pushrod to cut weight :smilewide: ).

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The Eldorado has such a fantastic history, so many beautiful cars, that I cant believe they would drop it. I am happy they didn't use it on the XLR, because Eldorado should be used on something with a usable back seat.

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They don't need a V12 since they aren't going after Bentley any time soon, but they do need a new DOHC V8. A turbo or supercharged V8 is enough for under $125k cars. I thought the STS/DTS replacement was scrapped, I hope it isn't on Zeta, a Chevy/Pontiac/Holden platform that is heavy has no place at Cadillac. They need to develop one from scratch, I know it is costly, but they find money to rebadge lame SUVs, they can take it from there to make Cadillac legit. As for names, I don't care if they stick with STS/CTS style or go to Fleetwood/Eldorado, they sell cars mostly in English speaking countries anyway.

I just read about Mercedes' new engine lineup yesterday, they have a, 300+ hp diesel V6, 435 hp twin turbo V8 (replaces the 5.5 liter) and a twin turbo 5.5 liter V8 with 570 hp for AMG cars. Direct injection on gas engines, plus a hybrid S-class with lithium ion batteries. All this is coming in the next 2-3 years. BMW and Mercedes keep pushing the envelop, Lexus and Audi have a hard time keeping up, Cadillac seems too underfunded to get in a battle with those brands.

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They don't need a V12 since they aren't going after Bentley any time soon

Who said anything about Bentley? Lexus is the only other full-line (and I use that term loosely when mentioning Cadillac) luxury automaker that doesn't use a 12-cylinder engine at all.

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BMW dropped the V12, but they could always update it and bring it back. The M5 might go to a twin turbo V8, and Jaguar is V8 only as well. The V12 Mercedes are $125,000 or more. The DTS and STS base under $45k right now, the replacement (if they ever make it) will probably be $50k, a V6 and V8 are fine for that price class. GM puts pushrods in Cadillacs so clearly they don't care that much about engines, doing to a DOHC V12 would be quite a jump.

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BMW dropped the V12, but they could always update it and bring it back. The M5 might go to a twin turbo V8, and Jaguar is V8 only as well. The V12 Mercedes are $125,000 or more. The DTS and STS base under $45k right now, the replacement (if they ever make it) will probably be $50k, a V6 and V8 are fine for that price class. GM puts pushrods in Cadillacs so clearly they don't care that much about engines, doing to a DOHC V12 would be quite a jump.

GM needs to match and beat the Germans in engine quality in all ways to make good headway, otherwise along with the loss of competitive models this just adds another deadweight to Cadillac.

Edited by aldw
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Maybe GM could use the pushrods to their advantage...

The motors are just as refined as the DOHC units (IMO)

Maybe GM could market them as "distinctly american" just like art & science and Cadillac as whole was/is supposed to be distinctly american.

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Pushrods aren't as refined as DOHC, I have a DOHC V8, I wouldn't trade that on a pushrod ever. "Distinctly American" might be a turn off to many luxury buyers. The current perception is that German and Japanese cars are better than ours. To beat the Germans, they need to out-engineer them, recycling a pushrod from a Chevy pickup or Camaro isn't going to do anything, but further tarnish the image of Cadillac as just another struggling GM brand.

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Maybe GM could use the pushrods to their advantage...

The motors are just as refined as the DOHC units (IMO)

Maybe GM could market them as "distinctly american" just like art & science and Cadillac as whole was/is supposed to be distinctly american.

Agreed on all counts. :yes:

I never drove a GM pushrod (V6 or V8) that I didn't like. :)

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I wish they would bring back the Eldorado name. God how I love it.

I love that name...and Seville, and esp. Fleetwood for the big luxo boats..... deVille is certainly nicer than 'DTS', IMHO. DTS sounds like some software code to me..(since I work in the biz known for having zillions of TLAs).

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BMW dropped the V12, but they could always update it and bring it back. The M5 might go to a twin turbo V8, and Jaguar is V8 only as well. The V12 Mercedes are $125,000 or more. The DTS and STS base under $45k right now, the replacement (if they ever make it) will probably be $50k, a V6 and V8 are fine for that price class. GM puts pushrods in Cadillacs so clearly they don't care that much about engines, doing to a DOHC V12 would be quite a jump.

I'm surprised Jaguar never brought back a V12 for the top-of-the line XJ sedan....no money, I guess.. I hadn't heard anything about BMW dropping their V12..they still have the 760Li (and the next gen F01/F02 is supposed to get a 760Li in '10, with an 8-speed auto).

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Bet you dollar to donuts there are lots of consumers 'convinced' OHC is more 'refined' than IBC... gazing with heavy lust at the CTS-V, pushrods and all. 'Engineering' means little on the bottom line if you take a back seat to the competition where it counts and where it can readily be measured.

You are only 1 person with only 1 opinion, yet -based on your one-track posts here- you continually extrapolate that onto the entire car-buying world as if everyone agrees with you.

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The 09 7-series has no V12, but the 2010 model getting it back makes sense, it is supposed to be a twin turbo V12 I think as well.

I've driven plenty of pushrods that I didn't like, even most SOHC engines I find unrefined. BMW's inline 6 has better refinement than any GM engine, pushrods and the Northstar don't cut it, they need a new engine if they really want to compete, but I believe GM is happy with Cadillac being a $35-55k brand that shares parts with lower end models.

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Bet you dollar to donuts there are lots of consumers 'convinced' OHC is more 'refined' than IBC... gazing with heavy lust at the CTS-V, pushrods and all. 'Engineering' means little on the bottom line if you take a back seat to the competition where it counts and where it can readily be measured.

You are only 1 person with only 1 opinion, yet -based on your one-track posts here- you continually extrapolate that onto the entire car-buying world as if everyone agrees with you.

BMW and Mercedes are both heavy on engineering and they both sell over 1 million cars a year globally, Cadillac is lucky to push 250k. Cadillac is 4th place in their home market and sales are down this year. The current plan isn't working.

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What is interesting is that GM and Chrysler are the only automakers in the world, AFAIK, that still do pushrod engines. The LS and Hemi are the last pushrod engines, I think. Even Ford moved away from them. (unless there are some obscure pushrod 4s still built in RIC countries).

I'm afraid the reality is that pushrod engines are by and large, like carburators, BOF construction, etc artifacts of the past...

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>>"I'm afraid the reality is that pushrod engines are by and large, like carburators, BOF construction, etc artifacts of the past... "<<

Some may prefer to look at it like this:

>>I'm afraid the reality is that pushrod engines are by and large, like decent thickness sheetmetal, longevity, repairability, etc, artifacts of the past...<<

In other words- these things worked well but are no longer 'fashionable'.

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>>"I'm afraid the reality is that pushrod engines are by and large, like carburators, BOF construction, etc artifacts of the past... "<<

Some may prefer to look at it like this:

>>I'm afraid the reality is that pushrod engines are by and large, like decent thickness sheetmetal, longevity, repairability, etc, artifacts of the past...<<

The thing is about longevity, cars today tend to go longer than the did in the past...30-40 years ago a car was usually worn out at 100k miles...today's cars are generally much more reliable over the long run...

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>>"30-40 years ago a car was usually worn out at 100k miles..."<<

Nonsense.

They certainly were in the Midwest...rust killed them even if the engines went on longer. People drive a lot more miles today per year, so the miles rack up faster.

Anyway, neither here nor there, the past is gone. Today's cars are better, safer, more efficient, more reliable than those from the past. What is going to be interesting is how cars are going to evolve in the next decade.

Edited by moltar
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>>"...the past is gone."<<

The future doesn't inspire much hope, either.

That's too negative... unfortunately, it is what it is...I can't go back and live when I was born in 1970...have to live for today and the future.

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V12 are played out, everyone's had them from Jaguar to BMW...

I for one could give a f*** less about twelve cylinders, either go

BIG, (sixteen) or don't even waste the money to being with.

There will never be any exclusivity from a 12 cylinder when page

4 iof the owner's manual has a photo of a '31 Cadillac phaeton w/

a 452 (ohv) V16, where's the BEEF?

GM: Either stop being pu%$ies, step up to a V16, or stick to V8s.

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Moltar:

HOw can you hate on the pushrod V8 with today's LS-series motors? :blink:

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There will never be any exclusivity from a 12 cylinder when page

4 iof the owner's manual has a photo of a '31 Cadillac phaeton w/

a 452 (ohv) V16, where's the BEEF?

??? How is something from 77 years ago remotely relevant in 2008???? You have to stop the dreaming and wake up to reality...

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I think GM has something up it's sleeve for Cadillac with the next generation of LS motors.

In todays market, developing 2 V8s is like developing 2 large RWD platforms: POINTLESS. So hopefully, like Sigma or Alpha might replace Zeta, the LS might replace the UV8.

Or maybe the UV8 technology could be adapted to certain "premium" versions of the new LS motors.

It's just a shame that GM spent all this development money on what appears to be amazing engineering on all levels only to get no ROI.

Edited by FUTURE_OF_GM
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Moltar:

HOw can you hate on the pushrod V8 with today's LS-series motors? :blink:

Never said I hated them...it's just the market has moved on....OHC is a necessity for premium cars in the market, perception or not..

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Never said I hated them...it's just the market has moved on....OHC is a necessity for premium cars in the market, perception or not..

I can guarantee you that much of this "market" wouldn't know the difference.

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Moltar:

I think Lamar proved my point pretty well... unless you consider

Bentleys to be a sub-par luxury cars as compared to a '08 DTS.

At any rate, the Corvette Zo6 & ZR1 have, undoubtedly put the

DOHC>OHV agrument to sleep, how many times does the Vette

have to win LeMans against a V12 DOHC Ferrari for the DOHC

humpers to STFU? (with all due respect!)

DOHC was cool in 1929 when it made the Dusenberg special, &

as you yourself said that era is long gone.

----

Now speaking of the V16, I will fight to the death that a small

displacement V16 could, ney - SHOULD be a part of Cadillac's

weapons' arsenal in the next decade.

Like I've said time & time again, think two modern BOP 215s...

or, even smaller would be fine. PUSHROD? YES, for simplicity,

esp. on such a smal scale.

How sick would it be to see an engine the size of a BMW slant

six but with SIXTEEN cylinders, displacing 5 or 6 liters.

Ohhh-yeah!!! :hot:

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A V16 is dumb, too big, too long under the hood. V12 has a place in Ferrari/Lambo or Rolls Royce type cars, but Cadillac won't ever be in that range of cars. The engine they need as an all new DOHC V8, with twin turbo option and in a couple sizes, perhaps a 4.0 liter, and a 5.0 liter. Even Hyundai has a new V8, and they have a 5.0 liter version of the Tau V8 with 420 hp coming soon. (Cadillac can't keep up with Hyundai?) The LS motors will never make it in the luxury market (they are from pickups and Camaros of 10 years ago), they don't have the refinement, or 100 hp per liter ability (without a massive supercharger like the ZR-1) like the Euro engines do.

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>> A V-16 is only 2 cylinders longer than an I-6. When you look at it that way; an I-6 is "dumb" when it could be half as long as a V-6, right?

>>"Even Hyundai has a new V8, and they have a 5.0 liter version of the Tau V8 with 420 hp coming soon. (Cadillac can't keep up with Hyundai?)"

Cadillac gets 469 HP from 4.4 L, hyundai is far behind Cadillac in a numbers race here. Yes, I realize thats SC'd and No, I don't care if hyundai can't afford to offer one, too. Power is power- Cadillac offers 50 more HP from half a liter less displacement. Done.

>>"The LS motors will never make it in the luxury market (they are from pickups and Camaros of 10 years ago)"

LS Gen IV is only 4 years old, not 10.

And the 'coming soon' tau V-8 is from hyundai of the accent fame.

>>...or 100 hp per liter ability"

First off, the only way to tell any car's displacement is to read the badge. How else do you know- not by looking underhood certainly. Not by driving it. Who cares ??

But let me educate you:

"At the 2006 SEMA show, GM Performance Parts introduced the LSX engine, an all-new cast-iron racing block based on the LS7 engine. It was designed with help from drag racing legend Warren Johnson. It offers displacements ranging from 364 cubic inches to 511 cubic inches (4.25" Bore x 4.5" Stroke) and is capable of withstanding 2500 bhp. This block incorporates two extra rows of head-bolt holes per bank for increased clamping capacity. The six bolt steel main caps are the same ones used on the LS7 engine. The LSX will be available starting the second quarter of 2007, set to be available in authorized dealerships and retailers on March 31, 2007."

Ooops, there it is!

511 CI (8.3L) / 2500 HP = 301 HP / L

Yes, I know this is a General Motors-developed race motor, but you said the LS did not have the ability to support 100hp/L and No, I don't care if it's not offered in a street car yet.

Even this press release didn't bother with outmoded fan-boy HP/L stats.

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An I-6 is a really smooth engine

Cadillac's supercharged northstar gets terrible mileage. The Tau V8 gets 17/25 mpg and they are targeting the same figures for the 5 liter version with 400-420 hp. Plus a super or turbo charged version with over 500 hp may follow. If they can make a new V8 from scratch, Cadillac should be able to also. They shouldn't have to take an engine from Chevy for their cars.

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A V16 is dumb,

Even Hyundai has a new V8, and they have a 5.0 liter version of the Tau V8 with 420 hp coming soon. (Cadillac can't keep up with Hyundai?)

Who sounds like a dumbass now?

All the more reason why a range topping V16 is the

only way Cadillac will ever fully reclaim its status as

"standard of the world..."

oh, and good job reading my post, a ohv 5 liter V16

would NOT be much bigger than a 5.0 litr twin turbo

DOHC V8! You sir,sound like a pie faced simpleton. :P

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An I-6 is a really smooth engine

Cadillac's supercharged northstar gets terrible mileage. The Tau V8 gets 17/25 mpg and they are targeting the same figures for the 5 liter version with 400-420 hp. Plus a super or turbo charged version with over 500 hp may follow. If they can make a new V8 from scratch, Cadillac should be able to also. They shouldn't have to take an engine from Chevy for their cars.

Guess how many people spend $70,000 on

an STS-V & care about mpg!? Guess...?

My guess is less than 2%

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An I-6 is a really smooth engine

Agreed, it's far superior to most V6s... and I-8s

are smoother still, now splice TWo I-8s to make

V16 & you have "internal combustion heaven",

and that is the definition of Cadillac luxury... not

a fwd DTS w. dohc V8 power, take II.

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Agreed, it's far superior to most V6s... and I-8s

are smoother still, now splice TWo I-8s to make

V16 & you have "internal combustion heaven",

and that is the definition of Cadillac luxury... not

a fwd DTS w. dohc V8 power, take II.

If they were ever to make a V16, I (personally) would prefer that it be a V-Series only engine. Not everyone deserves the gift that is engine size.

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Caddy doesn't even have a competing V8 (the Northstar is outdated) and people think they're going to consider a V16 in this marketplace? they would be lucky to sell 500 a year. I could just see the typical Caddy customer asking what a tuneup costs on the V16 - or typical repair costs. They shelved the new DOHC V8, never mind development cost of a V16. It's dreamworld.

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BMW dropped the V12, but they could always update it and bring it back. The M5 might go to a twin turbo V8, and Jaguar is V8 only as well. The V12 Mercedes are $125,000 or more. The DTS and STS base under $45k right now, the replacement (if they ever make it) will probably be $50k, a V6 and V8 are fine for that price class. GM puts pushrods in Cadillacs so clearly they don't care that much about engines, doing to a DOHC V12 would be quite a jump.

For once I kinda agree with you. The LS is fine for the V-series, but for something STS/DTS/ULS level they need a modern, clean sheet, northstar replacement.

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Caddy doesn't even have a competing V8 (the Northstar is outdated) and people think they're going to consider a V16 in this marketplace? they would be lucky to sell 500 a year. I could just see the typical Caddy customer asking what a tuneup costs on the V16 - or typical repair costs. They shelved the new DOHC V8, never mind development cost of a V16. It's dreamworld.

Yes, lots of delusional folks around here, I think you will find.

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I think GM has something up it's sleeve for Cadillac with the next generation of LS motors.

In todays market, developing 2 V8s is like developing 2 large RWD platforms: POINTLESS. So hopefully, like Sigma or Alpha might replace Zeta, the LS might replace the UV8.

Or maybe the UV8 technology could be adapted to certain "premium" versions of the new LS motors.

It's just a shame that GM spent all this development money on what appears to be amazing engineering on all levels only to get no ROI.

There's always been talk of the 3-valve VVT and DI being introduced to the line.

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Guess how many people spend $70,000 on

an STS-V & care about mpg!? Guess...?

My guess is less than 2%

But more people spend $120,000 on a Lexus LS hybrid, it isn't necessarily about the gas mileage number, it is a status symbol for the "green" movement. It is why people in Sedona, AZ or Hollywood, CA that are millionaires but put solar panels on their roof or drive a Prius because they want to save the environment.

A V16 would make Cadillac look like a gas guzzler, harmful to the environment brand like Hummer is now. A smaller V12 would be nice if they had a car to use it in, but I think they'd be fine with a new DOHC V8 that can be made in 4 and 5 liter versions with or without turbos and with a hybrid option.

Another downside to a V16 is how heavy would that engine be, and how to you keep a 50/50 weight balance with that big of an engine up front. If they want to compete with the Germans they have to do it in corners also, not just a straight line.

Edited by smk4565
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But more people spend $120,000 on a Lexus LS hybrid, it isn't necessarily about the gas mileage number, it is a status symbol for the "green" movement. It is why people in Sedona, AZ or Hollywood, CA that are millionaires but put solar panels on their roof or drive a Prius because they want to save the environment.

Are yu for real?, shifting the argument from AMGs, M5s & CTS-Vs

to hybrids & the green movement is pretty silly don't you think?

"al gore would not aprove of a V16 powered Cadillac..."

No ucfking s#it sherlock.

A V16 would make Cadillac look like a gas guzzler, harmful to the environment brand like Hummer is now.

Remind me again what the MPGs of a Bugatti Veyron?

or how about the Maybach 62? or Bentley?

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Caddy doesn't even have a competing V8 (the Northstar is outdated) and people think they're going to consider a V16 in this marketplace? they would be lucky to sell 500 a year.

What part of "ultra luxuy" do you not understand?

Wo said GM should even sell 500 "Sixteens"?

Even if they sold 50 or 25 a year... it would do more

for Cadillac"s image here in the USA & abroad than

aything since... well since the original ohv V16.

I could just see the typical Caddy customer asking what a tuneup costs on the V16 - or typical repair costs.

Yup... I hear most Bugatti Veyron customers are very concerned

about the replaement cost of the 4 turbos... get real, this would

not be marketed as a car to replace the SLS & Catera.

never mind development cost of a V16. It's dreamworld.

At one point, the 8-liter, V10 Dodge Viper, W16 Veyron & McLaren

F1 were just figments of overactive imaginations... even the

relatively tame Gen.5 Camaro was, according to many here on C&G

said to be the stuff of fantasy...

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At one point, the 8-liter, V10 Dodge Viper, W16 Veyron & McLaren

F1 were just figments of overactive imaginations... even the

relatively tame Gen.5 Camaro was, according to many here on C&G

said to be the stuff of fantasy...

A production Sixteen would be incredible, and do wonders for Cadillac's image, but with GM in the hole it's in now, there isn't any money for such fantasy, no doubt..they are in a fight for survival now. Which means focusing on quality FWD generics for masses worldwide.

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What part of "ultra luxuy" do you not understand?

Wo said GM should even sell 500 "Sixteens"?

Even if they sold 50 or 25 a year... it would do more

for Cadillac"s image here in the USA & abroad than

aything since... well since the original ohv V16.

Yup... I hear most Bugatti Veyron customers are very concerned

about the replaement cost of the 4 turbos... get real, this would

not be marketed as a car to replace the SLS & Catera.

At one point, the 8-liter, V10 Dodge Viper, W16 Veyron & McLaren

F1 were just figments of overactive imaginations... even the

relatively tame Gen.5 Camaro was, according to many here on C&G

said to be the stuff of fantasy...

Yeah, I can just see Bugatti custmers shopping in your typical Caddy store :rolleyes:

Mine sells Pontiacs-GMC's and Buicks in the same showroom as Caddy. Before they took it over the old dealership sold Hyundais in the same showroom!

Caddy survives as an "affordable" American luxury brand. Today GM has no funds to take risks on $150,000 cars that will sell 100 a year. They're barely surviving at the moment.

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Yeah, I can just see Bugatti custmers shopping in your typical Caddy store :rolleyes:

Wow... way to insult GM you 45 time poster with a keen intelect.

In 1992, Jay Leno, (the car-guy's car guy) bought a Dodge.

Yes a fu&$ing DODGE. The same company that had a $9995

special on a mitsu-based Colt and still sold the g*d-damn

brick-on-wheels Dynasty & puke-a-rific Spirit :yuck:

And yet Jay Leno paid $70,000 for a Dodge that year, just a

decade or so after Chrysler corp. declared (in layman's terms)

BANKRUPTCY.

But all you synical-sissies will reminnd me every day for

the next three decades how Cadillac has been busy selling

cars for $32K-$70K, because G*d-forbid that we elevate

Cadillac to the "standard of the world" it was for the better

part of the last century.

GM is tight on money & in dire straights because of

exactly this kind of bull&#036;h&#33; & mediocre thinking.

Let's get 'nother focus group together & hire a bunch

of Nabisco executives, maybe we can make a Delta

based Cimarron II & a theta based Asstek. <_<

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Wow... way to insult GM you 45 time poster with a keen intelect.

In 1992, Jay Leno, (the car-guy's car guy) bought a Dodge.

Yes a fu&$ing DODGE. The same company that had a $9995

special on a mitsu-based Colt and still sold the g*d-damn

brick-on-wheels Dynasty & puke-a-rific Spirit :yuck:

And yet Jay Leno paid $70,000 for a Dodge that year, just a

decade or so after Chrysler corp. declared (in layman's terms)

BANKRUPTCY.

But all you synical-sissies will reminnd me every day for

the next three decades how Cadillac has been busy selling

cars for $32K-$70K, because G*d-forbid that we elevate

Cadillac to the "standard of the world" it was for the better

part of the last century.

GM is tight on money & in dire straights because of

exactly this kind of bull&#036;h&#33; & mediocre thinking.

Let's get 'nother focus group together & hire a bunch

of Nabisco executives, maybe we can make a Delta

based Cimarron II & a theta based Asstek. <_<

Wow, so you think the number of posts has something to do with intellect?? No wonder you think GM is going to design a $150,000 16 cylinder Caddy to sell alongside the DTS while it flirts with bankruptcy. How about they just make a competitive large sedan first?

And I bought a new CTS last year so I've seen the Caddy shopping experience up close. The dealerships are far, far, from what most luxury car buyers expect.

Edited by nferr
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I get my car serviced at a Cadillac dealership and it is no nicer than the Honda dealership down the road, and pails in comparison to the Benz or Jag-Land Rover dealer that are near it. Most Cadillac dealerships aren't that nice and could use an upgrade.

They can't even make a V8, they'll never make a V16. Mark LaNave believes most luxury car buyers want a V6 engine. Which is why we get a V6 only front drive SRX and the competing vehicle from Infiniti Infiniti has a 390 hp V8 and 7-speed transmission and is rear drive.

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Wow, so you think the number of posts has something to do with intellect??

No, of course not.

First off I owe you apology for that, I guess you just came off like

some of the angi-GM, negative Troll.... we get those from time to

time. people who have nothing positive to say get on this forum,

pull the pin out of grenade, toss it into a few threadsand then they

scram... it bugs the crap out of me.

....you think GM is going to design a $150,000 16 cylinder Caddy to sell alongside the DTS while it flirts with bankruptcy. How about they just make a competitive large sedan first?

Again, making half-assed product andtrying too sell uninspired cars

for the better part of the last 1/4 century is at least partially to

blame for how GM got in this mess to begin with!

And the SIXTEEN, if replicated in a limited run of say 1600 cars total

would, should cost more than $150,000. Probably twice that.

In any case the middle eastern sheik who offered $10,000,000 for the

concept is a great indication of how priceless such a timeless classic

would be.

It would sell millions of posters andappear in every damn magazie from

Business Week to Kids' ESPN... it would be the face that would lauch

a thousand ships, millions of kids would drool at it when it would, no

in tless TV shows, rap/rock/country music videos and a whole new

generation would be hooked on Cadillacs, instead of Bentley , BMW &

other makes that have more curbside appeal to Gen.Y.

What al of you are forgeting is the publicity factor.

And I bought a new CTS last year so I've seen the Caddy shopping experience up close. The dealerships are far, far, from what most luxury car buyers expect.

Agreed, I've been on both sides of the fence.

I will be the first to say that GM's dealer network is

an achile's heel... actually they're practically the

enemy in some cases.

-- however --

Building amodern day sixteen cylinder ultra-luxury car

has little to do with the dealer network, that needs

to be fixed regardless... even to sell $38,000 CTS out

of their current dealer networkhas its problems.

Good for you, congrats on the choice of RWD Cadillac. :)

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They can't even make a V8, they'll never make a V16. Mark LaNave believes most luxury car buyers want a V6 engine. Which is why we get a V6 only front drive SRX and the competing vehicle from Infiniti Infiniti has a 390 hp V8 and 7-speed transmission and is rear drive.

Yes, but Nissan has 2 international brands with platform/engine sharing...they don't have the burden that GM in NA has of supporting 6 middle brands...

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They can't even make a V8, they'll never make a V16.

So wat, throw in the towel?

Do you really think cadillac will return to consistant, healthy

profitabiity with a bunch of crap that is mediocre & lame?

Mark LaNave believes most luxury car buyers want a V6 engine. Which is why we get a V6 only front drive SRX and the competing vehicle from Infiniti Infiniti has a 390 hp V8 and 7-speed transmission and is rear drive.

Fuc%ing put a dune cap on that retard, must be the same

dope who tought the DTS should get a few more refresh

wham-bam-thank-you-mams and it will keep seling like

hotcakes, the new SRX is no better and no less pathetic than

the damn C!marron was in 1982... since the Equinox is the

2008 equivelat of a J-body wagon!

If I was not a lifelong, diehard GM fan I'd be on

Infiniti, BMW & Mercedes forums for years now,

never looking back at GM's pathetic attempts

at clutcing at market share by STILL, 2 decades

after the almighty W-body wrote the book on a

97.5% FWD mega-giant car builder, by throwing

more FWD &#036;h&#33;boxes at the consumers and

pretending somehow another FWD crapbox will

sell THIS time if it wears a Cadillac crest!

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So wat, throw in the towel?

Do you really think cadillac will return to consistant, healthy

profitabiity with a bunch of crap that is mediocre & lame?

The problem is, with the 6 middle brands GM has to prop up, Cadillac can't get the investment levels needed to be a full-line world class player. Such is reality.

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So wat, throw in the towel?

Do you really think cadillac will return to consistant, healthy

profitabiity with a bunch of crap that is mediocre & lame?

Fuc%ing put a dune cap on that retard, must be the same

dope who tought the DTS should get a few more refresh

wham-bam-thank-you-mams and it will keep seling like

hotcakes, the new SRX is no better and no less pathetic than

the damn C!marron was in 1982... since the Equinox is the

2008 equivelat of a J-body wagon!

If I was not a lifelong, diehard GM fan I'd be on

Infiniti, BMW & Mercedes forums for years now,

never looking back at GM's pathetic attempts

at clutcing at market share by STILL, 2 decades

after the almighty W-body wrote the book on a

97.5% FWD mega-giant car builder, by throwing

more FWD &#036;h&#33;boxes at the consumers and

pretending somehow another FWD crapbox will

sell THIS time if it wears a Cadillac crest!

Mark LaNave is no retard, but I think I know who is, what exactly is a Dune cap, do you mean Dunce Cap! :smilewide:

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I''ve beenn havvng keybord issssues. :lol:

Seriously don't let your cat dump a glass ofice water on your laptop :angry:

Plus, I sux @ spelling anyway... Eng. IS my 2d. language :wink:

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I don't think they should throw in the towel, 2 years ago I said they should dump Saab, Hummer and Buick and just put more money into Cadillac. Saab and Hummer have to go, maybe dump Pontiac and keep Buick, regardless, Cadillac needs more money, more current models, nothing with a transversely mounted engine.

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No, of course not.

First off I owe you apology for that, I guess you just came off like

some of the angi-GM, negative Troll.... we get those from time to

time. people who have nothing positive to say get on this forum,

pull the pin out of grenade, toss it into a few threadsand then they

scram... it bugs the crap out of me.

Again, making half-assed product andtrying too sell uninspired cars

for the better part of the last 1/4 century is at least partially to

blame for how GM got in this mess to begin with!

And the SIXTEEN, if replicated in a limited run of say 1600 cars total

would, should cost more than $150,000. Probably twice that.

In any case the middle eastern sheik who offered $10,000,000 for the

concept is a great indication of how priceless such a timeless classic

would be.

It would sell millions of posters andappear in every damn magazie from

Business Week to Kids' ESPN... it would be the face that would lauch

a thousand ships, millions of kids would drool at it when it would, no

in tless TV shows, rap/rock/country music videos and a whole new

generation would be hooked on Cadillacs, instead of Bentley , BMW &

other makes that have more curbside appeal to Gen.Y.

What al of you are forgeting is the publicity factor.

Agreed, I've been on both sides of the fence.

I will be the first to say that GM's dealer network is

an achile's heel... actually they're practically the

enemy in some cases.

-- however --

Building amodern day sixteen cylinder ultra-luxury car

has little to do with the dealer network, that needs

to be fixed regardless... even to sell $38,000 CTS out

of their current dealer networkhas its problems.

Good for you, congrats on the choice of RWD Cadillac. :)

Thank you. I love the CTS. I originally wanted an STS but for the difference in price (my CTS is an 07) the loaded up CTS offered just about everything the STS had. And it rode sportier. Thus the problem with the STS, especially compared to the 08 CTS. Don't know why Caddy didn't differentiate the STS more, instead of just softening the look. They should have stetched the frame, kept the sharp angles and gave it almost every option as standard.

As for the dealerships, its a huge problem. I had a Jag X-Type before the CTS. The Jag dealer was all new and modern, felt like a modern office buiding with nice wood touches, only Jaguars would be in the showroom. The salespeople were upscale in the way they treated you, service was unbelievable. They would pick the car up at my house in the morning and leave a loaner in my driveway. At night they would either drop the car off at my house and take the loaner back or come to my place of business, which was 50 miles from the dealer and drop off the car.

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Lamar: Born 100% Slovakian in 1979, immigrated to USA in 1987.

--- SMK:

Kill Hummer and Saab, YES!

But go anywhere near Buick, Pontiac, Chevrolet or Cadillac

& I swear to god I;'ll pull the pin out of this grenade!

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Thank you. I love the CTS. I originally wanted an STS but for the difference in price (my CTS is an 07) the loaded up CTS offered just about everything the STS had. And it rode sportier. Thus the problem with the STS, especially compared to the 08 CTS. Don't know why Caddy didn't differentiate the STS more, instead of just softening the look. They should have stetched the frame, kept the sharp angles and gave it almost every option as standard.

I have an '07 CTS too......LOVE it.....already has 37,000 miles on it and it's as tight as day one......and I've only had two very minor problems the entire time (backup lights went out, and I had one faulty tire-pressure monitor.)

What color do you have?

Mine is black/black, with the "sport" package with 18-inch polished multi-spoke wheels, and a 6-speed manual.......only option mine doesn't have is navigation (GROAN) which, for some inexplicable reason, wasn't available with the sport package.

(Edit: One thing I particularly like about my car is the absolute lack of chrome anywhere, except the "CTS" badge and the grille vents behind the black grille.....I really wish the '08 CTS offered a monochrome look. I'd like the black '08 CTS much better without the chrome around the windows or the huge chrome strip along the back of the decklid.....)

Edited by The O.C.
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I have an '07 CTS too......LOVE it.....already has 37,000 miles on it and it's as tight as day one......and I've only had two very minor problems the entire time (backup lights went out, and I had one faulty tire-pressure monitor.)

What color do you have?

Mine is black/black, with the "sport" package with 18-inch polished multi-spoke wheels, and a 6-speed manual.......only option mine doesn't have is navigation (GROAN) which, for some inexplicable reason, wasn't available with the sport package.

Mine's silver (platinum they call it)/two tone interior, with the 17" polished sport package and the luxury package and the Bose/moonroof package. I don't have nav either, I think that's the only option I didn't get, it's an automatic. Mine only has 12,000 on it so far, because I drive my 84 Corvette a lot in the summer. In fact I've commuted in the Vette every day this week. I actually drove an 08 CTS and preferred the 07, it felt sportier and lighter to me. The 08's were just out when I got my 07. An identically equipped 08 was a lot more money and didn't have the 72 month 0% financing I got on the 07. The CTS is a real nice blend of sport/luxury.

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I'm a big fan of chrome. LOOOOve brightwork. :D

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