hyperv6

Obama Looks to give States the rights to set Emissions and Mileage Standards

293 posts in this topic

Talk about a mess?

To give States the right to set their own standards is a problem even if there were only a few states involved but to give all states this right is a problem not only for a strucggling Detroit but also Japan.

To give the auto industry a bail out then to sign a deal like this would be so counter productive. Obama may not have shown great judgment in some things in the past but even he should see the problems involved with an ailing industry and economy that will effect him.

The sad part is something like this could get signed in this week and the vast majority of people will never know what it means to them or how it will effect them till it is too late.

If many states follow the standards of the CARB board it is hard to imagine there will be much left of the industry in 10 years.

Is the goverment pushing this to make the car too expensive or hard to obtain to force the public to take public transportation?

People wanted Change, So be careful of what you wish.

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If Bush wasn't such an ashtray he could have avoided all this. Obama is another well-intentioned occupant in the White House who has never created or built a single thing in his life so doesn't understand the issues involved in doing so.

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Guys this is not an Republican Democrat thing. It is much bigger than that.

To think Obama is just another well intentioned occupant is alittle nieve. You don't get that far unless you sell your soul regardless of party affiliation.

Time to wake up.

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Cleaner and more efficient cars. What's wrong with that?

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Cleaner and more efficient cars. What's wrong with that?

50 different state standards. Makes it very difficult to sell cars.

That said, what will likely happen is two standards. The Federal one and a CARB one. The states that want the stricter standards will just adopt the CARB standard.

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50 different state standards. Makes it very difficult to sell cars.

Funny thing is, that's what the right wingers would want...they are always hollering about 'states rights'.

That said, what will likely happen is two standards. The Federal one and a CARB one. The states that want the stricter standards will just adopt the CARB standard.

2 standards is what we have now... they should have just set the Federal standard to the CARB one, created a unified standard.

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Cleaner and more efficient cars. What's wrong with that?

The point is not more efficent cars but as pointed out two standard or more could be in play.

Also realistic standards that can be reached in a time most auto companies short money and failing sales is a large challange. but to ask for 45 MPG standards right now is counter productive.

the bottom line is for the best interest of the MFG and consumers a national standard is the best for all. If you want to make improvments do it for all and not a state by state basis.

If anything Obama is going to hurt the industry more to the point it will create more employment problems for him to solve.

This right wing and left wing crap is what got you to this point time to get over it. Mccain would have probably done the same thing. As I have said time to wake up.

Edited by hyperv6
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I hope the government plans to fund..er...bailout the mess they will make Otherwise the bailout money the automakers got will have been for not, they'll go under, and it will never be paid back.

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Design and develop for the worst case scenario.

The only problem I see is when the worst case scenario will keep on changing if states get into ego boosting contest of their standards being the most stringent ones.

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This will be a loooooooong, painful, 4 years.

The last 8 were pretty long and painful.

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The last 8 were pretty long and painful.

I predict that you ain't seen nothin' yet.

This admin has been in less than week...

So far...

1) Executive order to close Camp Delta, with NO plan on where to put the worst terrorists in the world.

2) Executive order restricting how terrorsists can be interrogated, now they can only be asked if they want to share any info.

3) Almost $ ONE TRILLION in pork barrel.

4),5),6), some other stuff.

7) Now this.

Edited by Chazman
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I used to be very much against this kind of governance, but after living in California for the past several years I see the necessity of it. See, CA has to suffer some of the worst pollution in the country. I say "suffer" because the vast majority of the air pollution is a direct result of the twin ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach--the ships that until recently idled, the idling filthy diesel trucks that receive the imported goods, the belching diesel locomotives that ship the goods across the country...to where? Oh yeah, all 47 other contiguous states.

California has come so far since the 1970s when smog was so bad you couldn't even see downtown from a mile away, or the tops of skyscrapers when you were right next to them on the Harbor Freeway. That said, there's a lot more improvements to air quality that need to be made, and also a social justice aspect as well--poor people who can only afford to live next to the freeway shouldn't have to be plagued with noxious air. Their children shouldn't come inside from playing in the backyard covered in diesel soot. Hell, you can't even park your car outside for an hour without it being covered in filth.

It's for reasons such as these that the current standards are not strict enough for many states. If California wants to regulate its emmissions with tougher standards, then I have no problem with it because of all the good that will come out of it. The fact that 14 other states want to join on, though, speaks volumes to me of how what I have seen and observed out here more than likely is mirrored across the U.S.

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I used to be very much against this kind of governance, but after living in California for the past several years I see the necessity of it. See, CA has to suffer some of the worst pollution in the country. I say "suffer" because the vast majority of the air pollution is a direct result of the twin ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach--the ships that until recently idled, the idling filthy diesel trucks that receive the imported goods, the belching diesel locomotives that ship the goods across the country...to where? Oh yeah, all 47 other contiguous states.

California has come so far since the 1970s when smog was so bad you couldn't even see downtown from a mile away, or the tops of skyscrapers when you were right next to them on the Harbor Freeway. That said, there's a lot more improvements to air quality that need to be made, and also a social justice aspect as well--poor people who can only afford to live next to the freeway shouldn't have to be plagued with noxious air. Their children shouldn't come inside from playing in the backyard covered in diesel soot. Hell, you can't even park your car outside for an hour without it being covered in filth.

It's for reasons such as these that the current standards are not strict enough for many states. If California wants to regulate its emmissions with tougher standards, then I have no problem with it because of all the good that will come out of it. The fact that 14 other states want to join on, though, speaks volumes to me of how what I have seen and observed out here more than likely is mirrored across the U.S.

+1. I think the CARB standards should be a national standard. Everyone can benefit from improved air quality.

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We fix our air problems here in Ohio, it was easy.

We ran off all the MFG jobs in various ways and now we have a lot of unemployed people and no jobs.

But then again we have cleaner air and all the time in the world to breath it since few have nothing else to do.

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We fix our air problems here in Ohio, it was easy.

We ran off all the MFG jobs in various ways and now we have a lot of unemployed people and no jobs.

But then again we have cleaner air and all the time in the world to breath it since few have nothing else to do.

CA has very little manufacturing. The vast majority of air pollution is generated getting Americans their imported goods from Asia and elsewhere. If you look at smog maps, it's concentrated down at the ports, along the main trucking routes (110, 710, 605, 15, 5, and 10 freeways), and then some concentrations in the basins (duh, geographic features that capture and accumulate smog). Downtown LA has some fierce smog, but virtually no manufacturing.

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well i guess california can fix their bankruptcy problem now. make emissions rediculous and fine everyone who doesnt comply. math is easy...

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well i guess california can fix their bankruptcy problem now. make emissions rediculous and fine everyone who doesnt comply. math is easy...

It's really mainly for trucks. As it is, CA can only really regulate emissions because any other requirements would violate the Interstate Commerce Act.

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well i guess california can fix their bankruptcy problem now. make emissions rediculous and fine everyone who doesnt comply. math is easy...

Thank you...well said.

These states are completely bankrupt and do not know how to manage their money, yet are going to mandate emission standards and MPG standards for all the cars sold in the state? Yeah, I am sure that will work.

So, taking a page from California's book, can the automakers give the state an I.O.U. for the MPG they are short - just like they are thinking of doing with the tax refunds they owe people?

So, now Iowa can mandate that all cars and trucks sold in the state can ONLY be run on 100% ethanol, right? And they have to achieve 35 mpg on the urban cycle while using that fuel, right?

Here is a solution: California can go RICKSHAW power. Use all of the illegal alliens to PUSH or PULL the cars around instead of running the engines. They seem to have an abundance of the buggers around...they are renewable, and cheap.

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I don't mind a stricter standard. I just mind 50 different standards...... otherwise known as NO STANDARD AT ALL

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Here is a solution: California can go RICKSHAW power. Use all of the illegal alliens to PUSH or PULL the cars around instead of running the engines. They seem to have an abundance of the buggers around...they are renewable, and cheap.

Thinly disguised racism is unacceptable.

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I don't mind a stricter standard. I just mind 50 different standards...... otherwise known as NO STANDARD AT ALL

How long have you been able to go on gmbuypower and check an option box for one of 5 different state/federal emmission standards?

I agree with your sentiment, and if that is what eventually happens, then I'm sure something will be done about it. Really, the issue as I see it is that Obama granted a waiver, which is not a binding change to the law. The waivers, in my speculation, are a temporary measure before federal emissions are raised to reflect those of CARB.

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you are right of course and I do think some here are making this more about Obama than anything.

Ideally we should have one standard for emissions/fuel economy/crashworthiness.

We should also have one set of fuel formulas for all 50 states.

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I don't understand this at all. CAFE has never worked the way it was intended. There is a working model in Europe that shows us the way to improve fuel efficiency of our fleet. It's called a heavy gas tax. They have one and look what they drive! We've been on CAFE for over 30 years and look at what we are still driving. Aside from the increased engineering costs to let each state set its own standards, this type of thing also artificially creates supply without creating demand. Is it really that difficult to fathom that if Toyota could sell 1 million Prius a year, they would make 1 million a year? Of that if the market demanded fuel efficient autos as it did when gas was $4/gallon, all automakers would be moving to cover that arena as they are now?

It would be nice if all the automakers would band together and simply say "No. If you set a standard we can't meet cost effectively, we will all simply leave your market. You can all drive used cars or motorcycles for all we care!" Wishful thinking because I know that would never happen. BTW - Why is it the auto industry seems to always be the primary targets for these types of things? Where are the demands to make other transportation methods more fuel efficient? How about aircraft? Trains? Lawn mowers and weedwackers? Boats? Yes, I know some regulation has been added but those do not get nearly the attention automobiles do.

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