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FUTURE_OF_GM

Who said Obama wasn't behind the death of Pontiac?

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And I

"Pontiac was the first real muscle car and the government doesn't want muscle cars," favoring fuel efficient models, Wolkonowicz said. "I'm sad to see this brand go, it's truly iconic."

I'm not sure I agree with the implications of the article, but whatever. :)

Edited by FUTURE_OF_GM
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:suburban::deathwatch:
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That's the price of government involvement.

However wrongheaded it may be.

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And yet... they're keeping the GMC line, which is filled with gas-guzzzlers, leading me to once again believe this is not a politcally motivated decision. Instead, it's because GM hadn't had a clue what to do with Pontiac for ages, and is now paying for their poor management.

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That's the price of government involvement.

However wrongheaded it may be.

Well we still have Ford..........

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And yet... they're keeping the GMC line, which is filled with gas-guzzzlers, leading me to once again believe this is not a politcally motivated decision. Instead, it's because GM hadn't had a clue what to do with Pontiac for ages, and is now paying for their poor management.

The thing is, the "savings" from killing Pontiac vs. keeping it as a niche brand are nil.

And the costs will prove to be high.

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I said that, at the time, you couldn't say that the Obama administration forced Pontiac's closure. All you gotta do is back up your statements.

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The thing is, the "savings" from killing Pontiac vs. keeping it as a niche brand are nil.

And the costs will prove to be high.

This is probably bankruptcy prep. If Pontiac's closure is done under Chap11, the costs won't be anything like Oldsmobile.

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The scary thing isn't the administration's motives so much as their complete lack of understanding of the auto business.

Something that sadly, they share with the previous administration.

Government has a long-standing negative impact on the industry.

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This is probably bankruptcy prep. If Pontiac's closure is done under Chap11, the costs won't be anything like Oldsmobile.

Those aren't the costs I was referring to.

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The scary thing isn't the administration's motives so much as their complete lack of understanding of the auto business.

Something that sadly, they share with the previous administration.

Government has a long-standing negative impact on the industry.

I'm not so sure I agree that they don't understand the auto business. What I am sure of is that they are looking 20-30 years down the road and if GM has any hopes of being there, they need to cut very very deep.

What I will agree with is that the government is going about this the entirely wrong way. GM should have declared bankruptcy 6 months ago and let the government do the financing for it. I don't know what all the fear about bankruptcy is about. Nearly every airline has been there. Donald Trump has done it like 10 times and he's still around.

It's the only way to shed the albatrosses.

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///Sigh/// I wish Bush hadn't started all this Bail-out crap... promoting inefficient market practices... extra bureaucracy... Bush was no economic/fiscal conservative, that's for sure!

I suppose as long as GM retains the rights to Pontiac it would not be all that hard to reintroduce it at a later date.

Edited by Teh Ricer Civic!
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I'm not so sure I agree that they don't understand the auto business. What I am sure of is that they are looking 20-30 years down the road and if GM has any hopes of being there, they need to cut very very deep.

What I will agree with is that the government is going about this the entirely wrong way. GM should have declared bankruptcy 6 months ago and let the government do the financing for it. I don't know what all the fear about bankruptcy is about. Nearly every airline has been there. Donald Trump has done it like 10 times and he's still around.

It's the only way to shed the albatrosses.

I know everything I hear about bankruptcy seems better than this.

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I'm not so sure I agree that they don't understand the auto business. What I am sure of is that they are looking 20-30 years down the road and if GM has any hopes of being there, they need to cut very very deep.

What I will agree with is that the government is going about this the entirely wrong way. GM should have declared bankruptcy 6 months ago and let the government do the financing for it. I don't know what all the fear about bankruptcy is about. Nearly every airline has been there. Donald Trump has done it like 10 times and he's still around.

It's the only way to shed the albatrosses.

The members of the auto task force have said as much...

As for bankruptcy, that or sufficient government loans at the outset would have been infinitely better than month after month of limbo.

I'd wager that GM's chances have dimished by at least 50% in that time.

Decisive action was called for last fall - we are far past the point of losing the effectiveness that could have had.

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If GM files for Ch. 11, they will NOT be around in 20-30 years.

There will be NO "quick and easy" bankruptcy. And once that damage is done, NO ONE will buy GM cars. Hell, GM can't even get the import idiots to consider their cars NOW much less once they're "No longer a safe bet" because of bankruptcy.

Let me outline it for you in a few bullet points:

1) GM will NEVER conquest sales again... Not unless they "raise" buyers by marketing to the youth. The import intenders didn't give a rats ass about GM to begin with and now that GM's predicament and the media have all but cut the head off of this once mighty company, they will NEVER see those people again.

2) Even if we except that fact; at least 50% of the population is pissed off that "such a horrible company" is getting "a bailout" from "the dream team". Those people will not only NOT buy GM, they will work as hard as possible to get others not to.

3) GM still has its owners and loyalists, right? NOT SO FAST.... GM has alienated MANY of it's loyalists now that it has eliminated 2 of it's hottest brands (Saturn & Pontiac -- Go to any GM site, to the "people that know" these are two of the hottest brands) one of which pulls a HUGE amount of buyers (fleet included or not) It has alienated MANY more enthusiasts by eliminating it's 2 most customized/niche brands (Hummer & Saab --- these brands hold a lot of the mOST loyal people)

4) There is NO SUCH THING as an "easy" bankruptcy... The government isn't going to help GM any more than they have to. This is because of 2 reasons 1) Consumer/citizens WANT the company to fail, ESPECIALLY the citizens that this administration plays to. 2) Because GM is the government's enemy. Everyone seems to keep forgetting that these people HATED this company not even 6 months ago.

GM will 1) eliminate Pontiac to appease people that never intend to buy a GM car in the first place. 2) Enter bankrupcty with the assumption that big brother will be it's savior. 3) Big brother will abandon GM and the company will suffer a long, painful death while big brother hypes Ford and "transplants" as the key to our success.

-OR-

GM will 1) eliminate Pontiac to appease people that will never buy GM anyway 2) Enter bankruptcy where GMC will be killed as a condition of big brother guiding them through it. 3) emerge from bankruptcy like a lion 4) watch as sales stagnate because no one will buy cars from them. 5) Eliminate Buick and move cadillac down market withing 2 years of the filing. 6) Sell Cadillac and 7) continue to sell Chevrolets as a NICHE brand to those of us that still care until we die off.

Everyday, I fear more and more that there will be NO good end to this. The media, half of the population and half of the government want to burn GM on the cross, so much so that I just realized that I won't HAVE to buy Pontiacs in niche capacity, I'll get to buy Chevrolet's in a niche capacity!

When it all shakes out, the sales leader in america will be Toyota with around 20% of the market. Hyundai & Kia will be #2, Honda and Nissan will battle it out for #3 and Ford will sit at #5 (Their image is still too negative for most americans to care... Not to mention, once GM and Chrysler have "been dealt with" the media and anti-Detroit will refocus it's energy on a 'fragile' Ford until it finishes the job)

Edited by FUTURE_OF_GM
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I suppose as long as GM retains the rights to Pontiac it would not be all that hard to reintroduce it at a later date.

I'm actually kind of optimistic about that but it makes too much sense, so I doubt it'll ever happen.

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The government needs to put the word out that every time people buy an import car our economy goes further into the toilet! This is part of the problem now, that along with GM's management. I don't see whats so bad about buying a car from a bankrupt company as long as you like the damn thing. Ugh I don't get Americans lol

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I suppose as long as GM retains the rights to Pontiac it would not be all that hard to reintroduce it at a later date.

You mean like GM did for Oldsmobile?

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You mean like GM did for Oldsmobile?

My dad is still waiting on that one... I don't think he gets it.

If this was a politically motivated decision than GMC would not have been spared, trust me.

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My dad is still waiting on that one... I don't think he gets it.

If this was a politically motivated decision than GMC would not have been spared, trust me.

Yea sounds kinda fishy to me?

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If this was a politically motivated decision than GMC would not have been spared, trust me.

Everything is political in one sense or another.

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I guess GM should have stayed away from government-sponsorship and chose their own path to profitable success that included all of its brands.

I guess they'll also start issuing hunting licenses for flying swine, too.

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DISCUSS (for the 30 seconds that this thread will be open)

And I

I'm not sure I agree with the implications of the article, but whatever. :)

"Pontiac was the first real muscle car and the government doesn't want muscle cars," favoring fuel efficient models, Wolkonowicz said. "I'm sad to see this brand go, it's truly iconic."

I see mass hysteria and conspiricy theories were created on one idiotic statement from a hack and self proclaimed historian in Mass.

I assure everyone, do not believe what you read in these quotables. These guys know jack $h! about what is happening.

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///Sigh/// I wish Bush hadn't started all this Bail-out crap... promoting inefficient market practices... extra bureaucracy... Bush was no economic/fiscal conservative, that's for sure!

I suppose as long as GM retains the rights to Pontiac it would not be all that hard to reintroduce it at a later date.

Amen. If Pontiac goes now it is gone for good I think though, they just need one model or two to remain as place holders.

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I guess GM should have stayed away from government-sponsorship and chose their own path to profitable success that included all of its brands.

I guess they'll also start issuing hunting licenses for flying swine, too.

Yup, that could very well happen.

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