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Design Competition For Oldsmoboi'S Birthday


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Oldsmoboi's Birthday Challenge

92718k.jpg

Contest open till December 1st 2009 at 11:59pm

Since I was a kid, I've always felt that Pontiac should have gotten an E-body, but a sportier version. You can see hints of sportiness in the Buick Riviera T-Type and the Oldsmobile Toronado XSC. What I want to see is what a 1979 - 1985 Pontiac E-Body would have looked like had GM produced one. So sketch, draw, or chop me up a car. Any 1979-1985 Eldorado, Toronado, Seville, or Riviera is an eligible base.

I'll be judging the entries myself.

Every entrant will receive a C&G related prize for entering the contest.

The grand prize is a 1:18 scale model 1966 Toronado

The rules:

1. The contest is open to registered Cheers and Gears members with a valid email address and an account in good standing (not suspended for bad behavior).

2. Multiple entries are allowed, but only one prize per entrant.

3. The picture must be posted in this thread using the upload feature.

4. URL links to other websites will not be accepted.

The prize details:

  • Brand new 1:18 scale diecast model of 1966 Oldsmobile Toronado diecast model car by Road Signature.
  • Has steerable wheels.

  • Brand new box.

  • Rubber tires.

  • Made of diecast with some plastic parts.

  • Detailed interior, exterior, engine compartment.

  • Dimensions approximately L-10.5, W-4.25, H-3.25 inches.

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When I went to that GM design show, they had sketches of a personal luxury Grand Prix. It looked like the 1989-1993 Buick Riviera. It became that car. Grand Prix was Pontiac's personal luxury coupe that was sporty. It started out life in the 1960's as a personal luxury car. The mission got changed along the way. They had one. It was a G-Body. It was called Grand Prix Brougham:

Interior:

http://www.ranrich.com/gp81b_bromint.jpg

Exterior:

http://www.pontiacserver.com/gph3_87.jpg

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  • 2 weeks later...

I like the name Catalina for it. That black one isn't bad, but it looks like it's based on the stubby '86-'87 Riv or Toronado instead of the '79-'85

Anyone else going to enter or is MDM going to win the 1966 Toronado by default?

Remember, you get at least a C&G related prize just for entering.

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I beg you people, PLEASE submit more entries for this contest... for the love of God! :AH-HA:

Let's see... it would need to have the same formal roofline as the other '79-'85 E-bodies, the same wheelbase, width and general length. But it could have its own sheetmetal from the beltline down, plus its own quarter glass.

A Pontiac version probably would have had some sort of cokebottle bodyside shape, similar maybe to the Buick's undulating shoulder line moreso than the Toro's straight-with curved kickup or the Eldo's straight with squared-off kickup... it would need a FWD version of the nice snowflake wheels, maybe pull-up door handles instead of pushbutton ones... ribbed taillights, a prominent prow... wow, this could be cool. I really like the '79-'85 E bodies, anyway. A Pontiac prolly would have been my favorite, even moreso than the Riv S- and T-Types.

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I'm only saying that because I think a Pontiac version in production would not have been any more unique than the other three were from each other. Formal rooflines were all the rage back then... but you're right, in a dream such as Oldsmoboi's for this thread, anything is possible.

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pontiac4.jpg

OK,...the correct model years...THX Drew,...front half versions here, back halves to follow...these are the standard (Catalina) & performance (Bonneville) versions of each model.

More...coming soon. !!....kinda prelims for now. We will see how much detail I can get into it on the final versions !!!!

Edited by MRDETROITMETAL
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pontiacgville2.jpg

& Pontiac Grand Ville, this was a model made in the 70's I think, and the name kinda fits with the concept here IMO.

You have the right idea. Grand Ville was top of the line at Pontiac until 1976 when Bonneville Brougham took that title. Grand Ville was a C-Body with Olds 98, Cadillac Deville, Fleetwood and Buick Electra.

Quote:

The Pontiac Grand Ville was the top-line luxury car in the division's full-sized line from 1971 to 1975. It displaced the Pontiac Bonneville which had served as Pontiac's flagship since 1957.

The Bonneville itself was never discontinued during this period, but was demoted to an ambiguous mid-line status between the luxurious Grand Ville and lower priced Pontiac Catalina. Nevertheless, the Grand Ville and Bonneville always shared more trim and design elements than either did with the Catalina, and were in fact hard to tell apart. It seems unlikely that most buyers ever fully grasped the difference.

In addition to more luxurious interior trimmings, the Grand Ville used the squared-off roofline of the Oldsmobile 98, Buick Electra and Cadillac DeVille, the premium models of those divisions. There was usually some distinctive chrome up front and taillight trim at rear to set it apart. For 1974 only, the Grand Ville had its own parking lights, which wrapped around the corner of the front fender. The car was usually seen with more deluxe appearance options, such as sport wheels and vinyl tops, than the other full-size Pontiacs. Rear fender skirts were featured on the 1973 to 1975 models.

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Whoa, that greenhouse is way cool. Who knows, maybe they would have spent the money to give the Pontiac version a different rear half of the greenhouse. I also like those wheels.

Your nose, though, is a bit too clearly Toro. I wonder what would happen if you put vertical bars in your signals to match your grille, extend the grille seamlessly into the signals (like the '71 B-body), made your arrowhead just a tad bigger, erased the white cornering lights and just leave an amber marker, and blackout the white stripe in the bumper rubstrips? The sum of those small changes just might be enough, if I may presume to offer a critique in Drew's thread.

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I don't think headlights like that were avail in the early 80s. All the cars I remember had those sealed beam types that were modular.

They weren't. Lincoln had the flush mounts first... '84, IIRC.

Overall, this design is too modern... Unfortunately, modern styling is a Pandora's box that can't be closed when retro-designing cars. As someone who used to draw cars (and was pretty good at it), I can say that it is very difficult to add all the little trim bits and chrome to avoid designing an anachronism.

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Taking ocn's suggestions into consideration (besides the badge, since from what I saw 80's cars had pretty small badges), this is what I got.

PontiacSilverstone2-1.jpg

Looks better I think. The grill flows better. Overall with this chop I tried to add some modern touches (larger wheels, lowered ride height, etc.) while still making it look of its time. And as always, I tried to make teh chop look as believable and realistic as possible.

If anyone's wondering, I used the name "Silverstone" because its a Grand Prix track name and Pontiac seemed to like naming their cars with race related names (Grand Prix, Le Mans, etc.)

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pontiaccatalina2.jpg

& OK, cool info on the GV ...so anyway, here is the Back Side View, call it whatever you like, but this is translated from the first "Catalina" I posted here into the correct Year & Body style. It dose match up with the Grand Ville design posted previously, pretty close anyway,...so you have a Front & Back on that one.

Edited by MRDETROITMETAL
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Taking ocn's suggestions into consideration (besides the badge, since from what I saw 80's cars had pretty small badges), this is what I got.

PontiacSilverstone2-1.jpg

Looks better I think. The grill flows better. Overall with this chop I tried to add some modern touches (larger wheels, lowered ride height, etc.) while still making it look of its time. And as always, I tried to make teh chop look as believable and realistic as possible.

If anyone's wondering, I used the name "Silverstone" because its a Grand Prix track name and Pontiac seemed to like naming their cars with race related names (Grand Prix, Le Mans, etc.)

Looks great, DF. Thanks for incorporating my suggestions. I think you're the winnah!

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Taking ocn's suggestions into consideration (besides the badge, since from what I saw 80's cars had pretty small badges), this is what I got.

PontiacSilverstone2-1.jpg

Looks better I think. The grill flows better. Overall with this chop I tried to add some modern touches (larger wheels, lowered ride height, etc.) while still making it look of its time. And as always, I tried to make teh chop look as believable and realistic as possible.

If anyone's wondering, I used the name "Silverstone" because its a Grand Prix track name and Pontiac seemed to like naming their cars with race related names (Grand Prix, Le Mans, etc.)

That looks like a 1980's Bonneville model G in the front. It looks like a 1980's Pontiac that is a E-Body.

What GM would have really done.

post-253-12591859645438.jpg

You too have the right idea sir. A little history on Pontiac Grande Parisienne:

For most of its life, the Parisienne was the Canadian nameplate for the top of the line model sold in GM of Canada's Pontiac showrooms. Parisiennes were distinct from other Canadian Pontiac models by their standard features: the luxiousness of upholstery fabrics; standard equipment such as courtesy interior and trunk lights; bright trim mouldings in the interior; distinct exterior accent chrome pieces; and availability of 2 and 4-door hardtops and convertibles.

Finally, starting in 1966 Pontiac offered the "Grande Parisienne", a 2-door and 4-door hardtop models parallel to Chevrolet's luxurious "Caprice"

In a marketing twist, for 1982 the US Bonneville was downsized to the mid-size G-body platform. In Canada, however, the full-size Parisienne continued for 1982, although its distinct Pontiac front- and rear-end treatments and interiors were largely replaced with Chevrolet components (described in detail below). Needing a full-size rear wheel drive car to replace the lost U.S. market share and gain back Pontiac customers who longed for a large rear wheel drive car, the Parisienne was imported from Oshawa, Ontario, Canada and sold in the United States beginning in the 1983 model year. Externally, it was a rebadged Chevrolet Impala (1983-84 models (and 1982 in Canada) had the Impala rear taillight panel fitted with Pontiac-spec taillight lenses, whereas the nose was borrowed from the Chevrolet Caprice fitted with a Pontiac grille). The 1985 and 1986 models resumed use of the rear-end styling from the 1980 to 1981 Bonneville. Two Parisienne ranges were sold - a base model (similar to the former Catalina and the then-current Oldsmobile Delta 88 Royale) in four-door sedan and Safari station wagon form, and a more-luxurious Brougham four-door sedan (with velour upholstery that featured loose-pillow fitted seats). No two-door models were offered for the United States market, although a coupe version was available in Canada through 1983.

Right-hand drive Pontiac Parisiennes and Laurentians were manufactured in Canada for export to some countries such as Australia, U.K. etc., until 1969. They used the 1965 Impala dash panel until 1969. Pontiac right hand drive "kit cars" crated at GM's Oshawa, Ontario manufacturing plant were shipped to Australia and assembled at GM's Holden plant using some domestic parts such as seats, opposing windscreen wipers and 2 speed ventilation systems. Pontiac "kit cars" were also assembled at an auto plant in South Africa.

YES.... They do this now with Holdens. The ship them from Australia to South Korea and China and The Middle East.

It would be that easy to bring Holdens to the United States.

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Now ....If you want a " performance version "....Call this a Catalina, which according to the information posted here by 98, the Grand Ville is a Luxo model & the Catalina a base model...so, of course you would make the performance model from the base car, so it could kick some ass :

pontiaccatalina7.jpg

See what I am say'in ?...OK.

Yes ..I followed the "logic" of DF's Design strategy on this, but kept it in line with the GV design as well, & I did redo the back "c" pillar to be more like the original (2nd post - the black car) design I put up here.

I tell ya what...If Pontiac had made this....I would Buy one today, cuz it's just a Smok'in Look !...IMO.

Edited by MRDETROITMETAL
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pontiac4.jpg

^ these were the first ideas I had for this concept (after the 90's versions which were the wrong models !!)... the Bottom Black one was intended to be a performance version..."bonneville" I called it...but the post above with that Catalina is the "shiz"...Muscle cars were getting quite Rare in the 70's....that one above would have been a REAL kicker with a 350 or a (sshhh) 428 in it !!!!

I think we can DQ these 2, ( they actually look more like Grand Prix models, IMO.)...but you SEE I had redone the "C" Pillar already to be more angled,...I do have one More coming up for you....LOL, I need that Toronado !!

:smilewide:

Edited by MRDETROITMETAL
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Now ....If you want a " performance version "....Call this a Catalina, which according to the information posted here by 98, the Grand Ville is a Luxo model & the Catalina a base model...so, of course you would make the performance model from the base car, so it could kick some ass :

pontiaccatalina7.jpg

See what I am say'in ?...OK.

Yes ..I followed the "logic" of DF's Design strategy on this, but kept it in line with the GV design as well, & I did redo the back "c" pillar to be more like the original (2nd post - the black car) design I put up here.

I tell ya what...If Pontiac had made this....I would Buy one today, cuz it's just a Smok'in Look !...IMO.

You know, I have to admit I also saw Ford in DF's design, I was thinking big Mercury. I do like this version of yours, MDM.

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Funny thing is I didn't look at any cars besides Pontiacs of the era (for period correct details) for inspiration. When I was done I was very pleased with it, although I couldn't help but get a Mark VII vibe from it. Oh well. :P

As for looking EXCATLY!121?! like the Ford, (I see a resemblance)well sure, in the same way the Camaro, Mustang, and Challenger looked exactly the same in the late 60's because they had upkicks and followed the same basic design principle. ;)

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Yeah...it is true that the cars from one time period to another always seem to have a similar "look"...So, if you analyze the "design style" many cars look like each other, it is hard to escape that. Many ofther same designers worked for different companies too, and that contributes to the shared look, same is true today, I see GM designs in many of the new Kia & Hyundai designs, as well because many ex GM designers went to those companies.

:convertible:

I do hope we will have a few more people submit some designs here too, it is a bit of a challenge to do this as you have to think "retro" as to what could have been done back in the day...this was a great concept for a contest. THX Drew.

So anyway, when I complete the one other view I am working on I will post all of them up as attachments for a final,there should be 4 pictures in the set all of which are related to each other by the same basic design.

:deathwatch:

Edited by MRDETROITMETAL
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MDM's last effort looks great, but not period correct.

DF's looks very good, but I expect that this car would have drawn more front-end design from the '73-'77 Grand Prix. This car would have been the "personal luxury" flagship for Pontiac - a spot that actually went to the Grand Prix.

Other than that, I think DF's chop is spot-on. It looks very period-Pontiac from the front fenders on back.

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Camino,

I may not be the best chopper in the world (MS Paint). But I think my first car I did would be the closest to what GM would have really done. I took a grill and lights off a 80 Pontiac Bonneville and slapped it onto the 79 toro. That was their forward thinking design in 79-80. The Bonneville would have been the closest thing to a Toronado that Pontiac made.

The rest were done for fun.

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With the premise that an E-body would be a tip-top of the line personal luxury coupe at Pontiac, the design would have to be even more provocative, sculpted, sporty, and luxurious than the 1977 Grand Prix. How is that possible?

I was there when the brick wall hit... the transition between '77 and '78 Grand Prix was jarring. I remember thinking that they cut off all the contours and where left with a small box, a shadow of former glory. My opinion of the '78-'80 GP has mellowed since then, and now I would love to at least see one on the road. A black one with saddle vinyl buckets, gold-accent snowflake wheels, 301 and tin top would be great to tool around in on the weekends.

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Camino,

I may not be the best chopper in the world (MS Paint). But I think my first car I did would be the closest to what GM would have really done. I took a grill and lights off a 80 Pontiac Bonneville and slapped it onto the 79 toro. That was their forward thinking design in 79-80. The Bonneville would have been the closest thing to a Toronado that Pontiac made.

The rest were done for fun.

Well, having lived through that time in a painfully car-aware state, I'd have to disagree. That vintage of Bonneville was creeping ever closer to being a Chevy clone and the Full-size Pontiac was in decline generally. Then there is the factor of the GP being quite popular as a personal luxury car at the time.

Had Pontiac done an E-body, it would have meant the end of the line for the RWD GP. The new E-body would likely have adopted the Grand Prix name as well as its styling cues.

Who knows, it might even have been a good move as the GP's '78 restyle was something of a disaster. I never cared for the e-body cars, but they had an undeniable presence and sold well.

That's my rationale at any rate.

Edited by Camino LS6
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