Car and Driver - G6 GTP Comparo

[pow]

[razoredge]

Sounds like it did well but they didnt like the typical GM ride & steer chemistry. A cab seal problem and the shift linkage.

To bad they have to rate them but that gives them that godly presence of importance.

I got part way through the Mazda part and I got to tell you they sound like a bunch of whinny bitches. The turbo made a "raspy industrial" sound.......wah, wah, wah. If only they all sounded the same, exactly like what ever the little whiners favorite "sound" is.

"even on long dull interstate you can feel the "athletic tension" woowe ! how intence, how godly, how important these people really are. Almost like the rebirth of William Shakespear taint it ?

They start out bitching about the Jetta non stop but yet by the end somehow find a way to get her to first place. :AH-HA_wink:

OK got it

[ocnblu]

The new Road & Track magazine has a road test on the G6 GTP 6MT coupe, and they give it an overall positive review... they even comment on the quiet cabin... noting a lack of wind noise. C&D's test car obviously had a door seal/weatherstrip problem not indicative of the car's design.

Road & Track also commented on the shift linkage, but said the clutch has a nicer feel than the Accord. R&T's GTP went down the 1/4 mile at 15 seconds flat. They praised it for that... and they were clearly enamoured with the styling. The test car was bright blue with black leather.

[razoredge]

The idiots probably had the window cracked.

[Mike The Canadian]

lol I think thats bull, the tsx has nothing on the g6 gtp imo...

that and how can you say the gtp has the roomiest rear seat and then put it in last...

edit - look at the mph per 1000 rpms...hahaha

and they still complain pushrod this pushrod that..

in actual driving conditions (normal driving) you need to step on the gas harder on all these other cars..

Edited January 14, 2006 by Mike The Canadian

[avant1963]

G6s with the panaoramic sunroof suffer from more wind noise than a car with just a regular sunroof. I know.

But that's like me saying that the Mustang Coupe is much quieter at highway speeds than my Z28 convertible.

I expect the panoramic sunroof to produce a little more noise due to the panels. If I wanted a completely silent car, I wouldn't have gotten a sunroof.

Thanks for another $h!ty read... I wouldn't trade my G6 in for any of those.

[pow]

The new Road & Track magazine has a road test on the G6 GTP 6MT coupe, and they give it an overall positive review... they even comment on the quiet cabin... noting a lack of wind noise.  C&D's test car obviously had a door seal/weatherstrip problem not indicative of the car's design.

Road & Track also commented on the shift linkage, but said the clutch has a nicer feel than the Accord.  R&T's GTP went down the 1/4 mile at 15 seconds flat.  They praised it for that... and they were clearly enamoured with the styling.  The test car was bright blue with black leather.

If you read it, you'd find out that they did complain about the Accord's clutch feel, they were impressed by its objective test numbers, and they did like its styling.

That said, I do like the G6 as a sub-$20K car. But $29K is an insane amount of money for one, IMO.

[ocnblu]

I would say it's a $25k car, based on the competition. A sub-G6 offering should be available... a Kappa 4 seater, in the $20k range.

[ToniCipriani]

The idiots probably had the window cracked.

No, they probably opened the window. :AH-HA_wink:

[balthazar]

random observations counter to popular perception: Wow- the mazda sure looks incredibly segmented & dated in those mug shots above! I thought this was supposed to be some sort of darling to FWD enthusiasts, a real hot commodity? Blorf- I just tossed onto my own shoes. Clean it up already!

Looks like honda has some real mediocrity to work out in the brakng & handling departments... and what's with the accord outhandling the tsx?? Aren't these two trampling all over each other's markets & sales?

I'd have a lot more comments if these KB-intense pages would all load for me...

[ponchoman49]

I think even if the G6 had the DOHC 3.6, a 7 speed manual, no air leaks and outperformed the other cars totally, Foreign & Driver would still put it last with quips like: the synergy between gas pedal and clutch wasn't quite as rewarding as our beloved Accord or TSX or the "athletic tension" just wasn't the same as our mainstay foreign cars. Whenever I now read a comparo from these guys, it is quite apparent that they are now really reaching to justify keeping there beloved ricers on top. I now put there writeups alongside Consumer Reports for credulance!

[Cory Wolfe]

Well, I didn't think it was that bad of a review, although they were harsh about some things. That and the scorecard didn't quite match what they said about it. It sounded like they enjoyed more than the scorecard showed... not by little, either.

Still, it's alot better than anything out of Motor Trend, these days...

[mphmag]

again you guys are daft. besides the Accord that's where the G6 should be.

The GLI was a great ride and really impressed me, numbers don't mean squat when you're flying around Chicago in that sucker, paddle shifting and all.

The Mazdaspeed6 is just great even if the design is a few years old now. And the TSX supposedly got a nice refresh and has more standard equipment than you can option out on any of the others (an Acura trait).

I drove a TSX a few years back and got a bad tester so I can't really speak to it too much but I sure wanted the transmission to move in 2nd, it didn't do anything it turned out. But that was the fault of some idiot journo before me not Acura. But Eddie loves the TSX! and I don't think it is just because of the Acura nameplate.

The g6 is one of my favorite GM cars and I think with a few changes here and there it could be a lot better. But it's not made to compete with any of these besides the base models. And in the base model realm I really like the G6 for the price, esp w/the V6 edition. But don't fool yourselves and think you're getting a "performer" there. It's a commuter. And a really good looking one.

[tama z71]

When the 303-hp Grand Prix GXP (27990) has a base price in very near line with three of the four competitors (more than the G6), I find it hard to believe that the test wasnt at least somewhat biased as far as category of car tested.

I guess it depends on C&D's stipulations for finding similarly-equipped cars to compare, really.

By the way, what are the stipulations this week?

Edited January 17, 2006 by tama z71

[razoredge]

Sorry MPH, I dont understand your statement "not a performer"

not all of this post is in responce to you, some is simply about the review or more like catagorization

it was in top 3 cars in 1/4 mile, skidpad, runnin the cones and milage, top two cars in a few of them

as I recall even some of the interior room it was best at, excluding rear head room.

then wasnt it priced in the middle of the pack too?

I simply dont see how it comes in dead last when it clearly smoked a few of the competitors.

Look at what they complained about...... wind noise.....didnt like how the steering felt.....even though it got them through the slalom MPH's faster than some others, didnt like the body roll.but once again see slalom results, that is where body roll will kill you during multi transitional, look at the lateral G's, I mean come on, WTF does it take. You produce a car that runs middle of the pack and you get shoved down to the bottom..what for...wind noise ? Then why didnt the turbo with the noise that annoyed them so much that they blatted like babys without baba, get stuffed down to the bottom.

Push rod push rod push rod....well look at the mileage, look at the performance results and get over it.

[enzl]

Sorry MPH, I dont understand your statement "not a performer"

not all of this post is in responce to you, some is simply about the review or more like catagorization

it was in top 3 cars in 1/4 mile, skidpad, runnin the cones and milage, top two cars in a few of them

as I recall even some of the interior room it was best at, excluding rear head room.

then wasnt it priced in the middle of the pack too?

I simply dont see how it comes in dead last when it clearly smoked a few of the competitors.

Look at what they complained about...... wind noise.....didnt like how the steering felt.....even though it got them through the slalom MPH's faster than some others, didnt like the body roll.but once again see slalom results, that is where body roll will kill you during multi transitional, look at the lateral G's, I mean come on, WTF does it take. You produce a car that runs middle of the pack and you get shoved down to the bottom..what for...wind noise ? Then why didnt the turbo with the noise that annoyed them so much that they blatted like babys without baba, get stuffed down to the bottom.

Push rod push rod push rod....well look at the mileage, look at the performance results and get over it.

C&D is biased towards sporty cars...clearly, they didn't think enough of the G6's performance numbers to outweigh other deficiencies...(I will concede that the wind noise should have been ignored, since they ignored brake failure in the 3-series comparo win the month before)

I think the author wasn't too harsh...I don't know what you guys drive on a regular basis, but I'm pretty sure that a TSX or GLI, given similar MSRP's, are superior values to the G6. Noone's buying that car within $4k of sticker, whereas the TSX and VW go for near sticker...

[pow]

The G6 is a decent car, but faced against such focused competition, I doubt even its platform mate, the Saab 9-3 2.0T, would have ranked any higher than last.

[razoredge]

But read what they wrote and then what they come up with. They have no big deficiencies on the G6 other than assumed ones. The results contradict what they decided made the G6 not good enough.

[pow]

But read what they wrote and then what they come up with. They have no big  deficiencies on the G6 other than assumed ones. The results contradict what they decided made the G6 not good enough.

Have no idea what you're trying to say...

[razoredge]

Yea, thats cause your one of "them" easier to "not understand" than face the facts

"excessive mass undoubtedly affected G6's, braking, skid pad and lane change numbers "

OK thats what you read first...the picture of a pig has been firmly implanted in your brain so while your pictureing this pig you miss

"second fastest lane change, close third skidpad "

now lets take a look at this pigish handling problem

Acura .80, Honda .80, Mazda .87, Pontiac . 85, VW .86

OK thats 2 one hundreths off from the Mazda yet 5 one hundreths better than the ........hold on I must go get me that Shakespearian worthy quote

"so happy, so eager to play" "such a treat to drive this car after "herding" some of the others around the course" "so much more certainty, so much more precision" "quick responces, crisp steering, excellent brakes (10 feet short of G6 ) minimal body roll " " just brimming with confidence " "athletic tension"

OK so at nearly 2 mph faster in slalom (1. that means in an hour on a 2 mile track the G6 (pig) would lap the king of athletic tension. Last I checked .05 lateral G gain was nothing to sneeze about. Yet it doesnt matter in this review because they already painted the picture of a pig for the Pontiac and then went to great Shakespearian depths to lather all over the Honda's.

That must be that "focused competition" shinnin through........yarite !

OK we "they" were just talking about brakes

Acura 177', Honda 180' , Mazda 155', Pontiac 167', VW 154'

so the Mazda and VW smoked the PIG but... by that comparision... the kings of athletic tension hit the wall, you know...the kind you can feel just sittin in them.

Now, we just had to start the Pontiac review by crawling all over the...hold on I must go get some quotes......"relitively old fasion valve operation" if they knew crap about anything they would know the age of both designs is ancient but once again they are painting a picture here so the mission must be met. It was totally unecessary to make any dramatic note about the "valve operation" what was important is that it does have variable valve timing..just like the rest. BUT NO! first we must paint that negitive picture........BOTH FORMS OF "VALVE OPERATION" ARE ANCIENT

It still was 3rd fastest in 1/4 only beaten by turbos and one that was AWD, if anyone doesnt think that makes a difference your foolin yourself

Now, Im not saying improvements should not be sought, Im not saying flaws can not be found, but just look at the lenghts they go to to paint negitive picture of Pontiac yet get all poetic and self gratified all over the Hondas that were clearly out performed and should both be dead last. .80 lateral, 180' "so much more certainty, so much more precision" give me a friggin break. Why not just ice the cake by lying about the numbers on the Pontiac so they dont come off looking like a bunch of fools.

To me that G6 was clearly a 3rd and for acceleration or milage one could rightously argue in favor of the Honda for 3rd, Pontiac 4th but that engine didnt help other important performance factors that the Pontiac clearly blew the Hondas out of the water on. More worthy than .3 0-60 or .4 1/4 advantage

[frogger]

I can't believe an everyman v6 Honda Accord sedan can do 0-60 in 5.9 seconds, thats just crazy.

[pow]

Unless you give them all the same tires, slalom and roadholding numbers can only tell so much about the chassis. Obviously, the low-profile 18" rubber of the G6, GLI, and Mazdaspeed6 will outgrip the 17" all-seasons of the Hondas.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

I drove a TSX a few years back and got a bad tester so I can't really speak to it too much but I sure wanted the transmission to move in 2nd, it didn't do anything it turned out. But that was the fault of some idiot journo before me not Acura. But Eddie loves the TSX! and I don't think it is just because of the Acura nameplate.

I've often wondered how often this is considered.... Probably not too often with domestics as they're all predisposed to being inferior anyway.

I thought it was a kind write up.... Too bad no one cares about that and will read the numbers (ranking--not the real numbers that tell the REAL story) instead. Maybe Foreign Car and Import Driver does have a conscience now that the mighty is falling. Most of the grips were unsubstantiated subjective anyway.

I guess we can always hope for the G6 GXP!

When the 303-hp Grand Prix GXP (27990) has a base price in very near line with three of the four competitors (more than the G6), I find it hard to believe that the test wasnt at least somewhat biased as far as category of car tested.

Silly C&G-er!!!!

Price only matters if it gives the imports an advantage... You know, just like quality scores!

I simply dont see how it comes in dead last when it clearly smoked a few of the competitors.

Look at what they complained about...... wind noise.....didnt like how the steering felt.....even though it got them through the slalom MPH's faster than some others, didnt like the body roll.but once again see slalom results, that is where body roll will kill you during multi transitional, look at the lateral G's, I mean come on, WTF does it take. You produce a car that runs middle of the pack and you get shoved down to the bottom..what for...wind noise ? Then why didnt the turbo with the noise that annoyed them so much that they blatted like babys without baba, get stuffed down to the bottom.

Push rod push rod push rod....well look at the mileage, look at the performance results and get over it.

Kinda reminds you of that recent C&D "Cheap Speed" competition where the Cobalt and Ion dominated and were cheaper. YET placed last... Hmmmmm..... Hell, even the unrefined SRT-4 blows their a**hole winner RSX out of the water.

Which proves my point... We are now seeing domestics that are FUNDAMENTALLY better than imports, yet the chorus still plays on and the ranking still reflects it. It's all a big, fat load of lies and bull**** and they'll CONTINUE to come up with more and more fabricated and subjective measures to ensure the imports stay one step ahead. Unfortunately, some people still PAY for this trash.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Yea, thats cause your one of "them" easier to "not understand" than face the facts

"excessive mass undoubtedly affected G6's, braking, skid pad and lane change numbers "

OK thats what you read first...the picture of a pig has been firmly implanted in your brain so while your pictureing this pig you miss

"second fastest lane change, close third skidpad "

now lets take a look at this pigish handling problem

Acura .80, Honda .80, Mazda .87, Pontiac . 85, VW .86

OK thats 2 one hundreths off from the Mazda yet 5 one hundreths better than the ........hold on I must go get me that Shakespearian worthy quote

"so happy, so eager to play" "such a treat to drive this car after "herding" some of the others around the course" "so much more certainty, so much more precision" "quick responces, crisp steering, excellent brakes (10 feet short of G6  ) minimal body roll " " just brimming with confidence " "athletic tension"

OK so at nearly 2 mph faster in slalom (1. that means in an hour on a 2 mile track the G6 (pig) would lap the king of athletic tension.  Last I checked .05 lateral G gain was nothing to sneeze about. Yet it doesnt matter in this review because they already painted the picture of a pig for the Pontiac and then went to great Shakespearian depths to lather all over the Honda's.

That must be that "focused competition" shinnin through........yarite !

OK we "they" were just talking about brakes

Acura 177', Honda 180' , Mazda 155', Pontiac 167', VW 154'

so the Mazda and VW smoked the PIG but... by that comparision... the kings of athletic tension hit the wall, you know...the kind you can feel just sittin in them.

Now, we just had to start the Pontiac review by crawling all over the...hold on I must go get some quotes......"relitively old fasion valve operation" if they knew crap about anything they would know the age of both designs is ancient but once again they are painting a picture here so the mission must be met. It was totally unecessary to make any dramatic note about the "valve operation" what was important is that it does have variable valve timing..just like the rest. BUT NO! first we must paint that negitive picture........BOTH FORMS OF "VALVE OPERATION" ARE ANCIENT

It still was 3rd fastest in 1/4 only beaten by turbos and one that was AWD, if anyone doesnt think that makes a difference your foolin yourself

Now, Im not saying improvements should not be sought, Im not saying flaws can not be found, but just look at the lenghts they go to to paint negitive picture of Pontiac yet get all poetic and self gratified all over the Hondas that were clearly out performed and should both be dead last. .80 lateral, 180' "so much more certainty, so much more precision"   give me a friggin break. Why not just ice the cake by lying about the numbers on the Pontiac so they dont come off looking like a bunch of fools.

To me that G6 was clearly a 3rd and for acceleration or milage one could rightously argue in favor of the Honda for 3rd, Pontiac 4th but that engine didnt help other important performance factors that the Pontiac clearly blew the Hondas out of the water on. More worthy than .3 0-60 or .4 1/4 advantage

EXCELLENT REPLY!

The Pontiac is 5th, because it's a Pontiac.... Mery Christmas Virginia.

[pow]

Which proves my point... We are now seeing domestics that are FUNDAMENTALLY better than imports, yet the chorus still plays on and the ranking still reflects it. It's all a big, fat load of lies and bull**** and they'll CONTINUE to come up with more and more fabricated and subjective measures to ensure the imports stay one step ahead. Unfortunately, some people still PAY for this trash.

Oh come on... they had a glowing review of the '07 Tahoe in the same issue. You have to admit that the G6 isn't the car it could have been.

And as I've said before, objective test numbers don't tell sh!t about steering precision/feedback/weighting, brake feel, roll/dive control, throttle response, breakaway characteristics, ride comfort, neutrality, and so on...

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

Oh come on... they had a glowing review of the '07 Tahoe in the same issue. You have to admit that the G6 isn't the car it could have been.

And as I've said before, objective test numbers don't tell sh!t about steering precision/feedback/weighting, brake feel, roll/dive control, throttle response, breakaway characteristics, ride comfort, neutrality, and so on...

Oh I agree, the G6 needed to be much more.

[razoredge]

Unless you give them all the same tires, slalom and roadholding numbers can only tell so much about the chassis. Obviously, the low-profile 18" rubber of the G6, GLI, and Mazdaspeed6 will outgrip the 17" all-seasons of the Hondas.

what a lame ass excuse

Hondas were running 215/50's/17's AS Michelin Pilots

Pontiac was running 225/50's/18's AS Goodyear Eagles

accordingly Michelin is "supposed" to be a better tire and if you think 17 versus 18 versus even 14's has anything to do with handling ...well I'll just keep my mouth shut. I had 205/60/13's on my Alpine and Id put it up against any of these cars in corners. Please try not to let urban myth control your brain waves. Theres big bucks in it for the tire and wheel companies to push these large diameter wheels. The Achieva SCX pulled .87 or I believe it was and that was most likely on 14 or 15's with a 60 or 65 profile way back in the early 90's.........OK, nuff said.

Edited January 18, 2006 by razoredge

[razoredge]

Oh come on... they had a glowing review of the '07 Tahoe in the same issue. You have to admit that the G6 isn't the car it could have been.

Ya know, maybe not but it is more than you & your mag is willing to give it. As it proved up against the competition !

And as I've said before, objective test numbers don't tell sh!t about steering precision/feedback/weighting, brake feel, roll/dive control, throttle response, breakaway characteristics, ride comfort, neutrality, and so on...

lateral G's are lateral G's and 5 one hundredths is nothing to sneeze about and doest directly correlate to precision, feedback & body roll. nearly 2 mph and nearly 1 mph in slalom is a significant difference and once again does directly correlate to "precision/feedback/(weighing    ), roll/dive control, breakaway characteristics, neutrality, and so on... and so on and so on !

all the "brake feel" in the world is not going to make loss of 10' justifiable because if its a potential broadside what Im feeling is an air bag in the face.

Once again its clear they tripped all over themselfs to steer the tone of the Pontiac into negitivity while the man with the violin was sent to Hondas table.......because ? they got their ass's kicked ?

[ponchoman49]

I can't believe an everyman v6 Honda Accord sedan can do 0-60 in 5.9 seconds, thats just crazy.

I find it hard to believe too. I mean 211 torque! Come on! No other magazine has even come close to this time that I have read.

[mphmag]

Sorry MPH, I dont understand your statement "not a performer"

not all of this post is in responce to you, some is simply about the review or more like catagorization

it was in top 3 cars in 1/4 mile, skidpad, runnin the cones and milage, top two cars in a few of them

as I recall even some of the interior room it was best at, excluding rear head room.

then wasnt it priced in the middle of the pack too?

I simply dont see how it comes in dead last when it clearly smoked a few of the competitors.

Look at what they complained about...... wind noise.....didnt like how the steering felt.....even though it got them through the slalom MPH's faster than some others, didnt like the body roll.but once again see slalom results, that is where body roll will kill you during multi transitional, look at the lateral G's, I mean come on, WTF does it take. You produce a car that runs middle of the pack and you get shoved down to the bottom..what for...wind noise ? Then why didnt the turbo with the noise that annoyed them so much that they blatted like babys without baba, get stuffed down to the bottom.

Push rod push rod push rod....well look at the mileage, look at the performance results and get over it.

Remember most reviews all end with the same result: would you recommend this to someone as their ONLY car? the one they plunk down hard earned cash for and not regret it when they see the new GLI next to them etc.

NOW. the real problem is the G6 I think is much more practical than all of them, besides the Accord. It's less money when you just get the V6 sedan, has a nice trunk. Looks great etc. I could easily say the GLI looks really expensive even when you line it up to the fully loaded TSX and the AWD Mazda. I drove the GTP coupe and it could barely turn to fit in a parking spot half the time, it was that bad. It was so huge and felt like it! Heck the sedan didn't feel as big and heavy. The steering feel is just not there and if you drove a GLI next to it, it would be a BIG difference.

The GTP had nice power but it didn't blow me away and it just didn't "feel" fast. Heck I'm surprised the Legacy GT wasn't included in this. That thing feels like a rocket. Could I seriously recommend the G6 GTP to anyone over all of these other vehicles? Only if there was a helluva deal on it and they loved the looks. Otherwise it would be down the list on all of these.

On the other hand I have recommended the G6 sedan to lots of people because of the price and looks.

Edited January 18, 2006 by mphmag

[enzl]

If you look at a majority of C&D's tests over the years, they tend to use subjective critierion in tests like these.

Sometimes that works in your favor, sometimes not. They are an opinionated journal. If they don't share your enthusiasm for GM products...although they have raved about the Tahoe, the Solstice, the 'vette....that doesn't make them wrong, it just means they don't share your opinion of the product in question.

I think that anyone who has spent time in any of these cars (and I have, in one form or another), would consider the G6 a vast improvement over its predecessors, but its not a class leader....the quality of materials is still not at Honda, Acura or VW levels in terms of first impression and, IMO, the mechanicals are simply not as cohesive as some of the other cars in this test...the GLI, while ugly, has been universally praised worldwide, the TSX, while a gussied up Euro-Accord, is a sweet handler and exudes quality. even the Accord, while sterile, has an indefinable quality to it that the G6 doesn't...yet.

Opinions are like A%^holes, everyone's got one and most of 'em stink. This article, while not entirely positive for Pontiac, does mention alot of positive attributes and the objective categories clearly have been achieved by GM, at the least.

[razoredge]

I understand but so much of that is feel - what someone is used to or their opinion.

Like the parking lot thing, all I can think is you got to be kiddin me I drive H bodies & B bodies.......when I got into them I never for a second expected the turning radius of our former Rabbit..once again, come on, its a bigger car American style, which means more metal, thicker distance from outer shell to inner shell. Im disappointed in the weight but its solid and everybody including safety regulations wants all this stuff thats bloating these cars. Having problems parking......well, I just dont know what to say.

I know what the steering feel eveyone is talking about is. Thats taste and preference, its probably like comparing old GM to old Mopar, old Mopar had a much looser, floaty feel than GM. Imports are even more firm than GM, still it didnt effect end results. I do wish GM put less work into the steering, I believe they actually have overdone steering but guess what......thats what American buyers have wanted all these decades, its that push/pull thing I have mentioned thats been going on since the transition in the 70's. Gm had put alot of work into magnasteer to try to find a compromise between the effortless "American" powersteering and more sporty "feel". Myself I prefer direct steering via old Brit roadster but I wouldnt let that cloud my mind if I was reviewing modern family cars...because they didnt steer like a sports car. You cant please all the people all the time, many want that effortless power steering and few would want old arm strong worm and roller, but if you want feel..thats feel.

By putting the G6 on the bottom of this "list" and painting the negitive picture they did, they have essentially killed the G6 for anyone that read this article, yet it performed and has space capacity that puts it middle of the pack, I dont even think there was a single pitch for the rectractable roof, just its a pig with lots of noise that outperformed a few of our favorites but we dont like it because we drive and are used to Hondas and they make us feel fast and precise in the corners as the G6 laps us

I could deal with this review if I didnt see all the spin and effort they put into the print to justify the misplaced placements. I mean its right in your face, you cant miss it.

[razoredge]

This article, while not entirely positive for Pontiac, does mention alot of positive attributes and the objective categories clearly have been achieved by GM, at the least.

yes but before they mentioned what was good about the Pontiac.they started by making loud point that it was a dead last looser that wasnt up to the game.......after that the Pontiac could have won three of the catagories rather than a few 2nd & 3rds and it would not matter.

Before they mentioned the fact that it did handle and hold the road well they had to define it as a pig

Before they mentioned that it had gobs of torque, variable valve timing they had to paint the picture that is was powered by a tractor engine.

Thats the kind of crap those of us are talking about....example.....

You and your girl are going out tonight, she gets all dolled up and looks most excellent.

First thing out of your mouth is "well your a fat pig but tonight you cleaned up pretty good for a change"

Now what kind of mood did you just set for the rest of the evening ?

[enzl]

yes but before they mentioned what was good about the Pontiac.they started by making loud point that it was a dead last looser that wasnt up to the game.......after that the Pontiac could have won three of the catagories rather than a few 2nd & 3rds and it would not matter.

Before they mentioned the fact that it did handle and hold the road well they had to define it as a pig

Before they mentioned that it had gobs of torque, variable valve timing they had to paint the picture that is was powered by a tractor engine.

Thats the kind of crap those of us are talking about....example.....

You and your girl are going out tonight, she gets all dolled up and looks most excellent.

First thing out of your mouth is "well your a fat pig but tonight you cleaned up pretty good for a change"

Now what kind of mood did you just set for the rest of the evening ?

Valid points all...except, at the end of the day, they are picking it last...so I guess they would be explaining their position, since anyone who flips over to the spec or performance info could see the Pontiac was certainly in the ballpark.

The truth is that the G6, for whatever reasons, was not quite up to their, admittedly subjective, standards. If I'm not mistaken, the G6 sales have been on an upswing and, it seems that Pontiac has started to reverse its slide into the abyss, so, I'm not sure that this article, about vehicles that are a small slice of the overall sedan pie...i.e 'performance, inexpensive 4 doors" ...are really going to sway too many buyers. We're talking about 50K total of all of these vehicles in a market segment that is in the millions.

Is C&D biased? Yes. They like cars for reasons that a very small subsection of buyers would 100% agree with. For everyone else, I don't think it means that much.

[The O.C.]

Which proves my point... We are now seeing domestics that are FUNDAMENTALLY better than imports, yet the chorus still plays on and the ranking still reflects it. It's all a big, fat load of lies and bull**** and they'll CONTINUE to come up with more and more fabricated and subjective measures to ensure the imports stay one step ahead. Unfortunately, some people still PAY for this trash.

I don't find ANYTHING on G6 "fundamentally" better than any of the imports it's being compared to here.

I think the article was SPOT ON and it seemed that they gave credit to the G6 where credit is due.

I like the G6.....but for about the same money, I'd take the GLI or Mazdaspeed6 over the GTP easily overall. I'd be tempted by the TSX due to the treatment I'd assuredly get at the dealership (compared to the typical Pontiac dealer here.) The Accord 6-speed is a tougher choice because it's the only one I haven't driven. However, if it drove as good as it sounds, I'd probably choose it too over the GTP even though I like the GTP's styling alot more.

[Dsuupr]

Funny the comments they make, when I drove the Mazda6 I found the steering to be so light it was hard to keep in one lane.

[ToniCipriani]

I can't believe an everyman v6 Honda Accord sedan can do 0-60 in 5.9 seconds, thats just crazy.

The Accord isn't cheap. My friend told me any Accord with V6 is well over 35k (Canadian) for a stripper model..

[The O.C.]

The Accord isn't cheap. My friend told me any Accord with V6 is well over 35k (Canadian) for a stripper model..

The Accord, as-tested, was just UNDER $30K (USD)....with leather and all other options (but I don't think it had NAV.) I consider that a decent value.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

yes but before they mentioned what was good about the Pontiac.they started by making loud point that it was a dead last looser that wasnt up to the game.......after that the Pontiac could have won three of the catagories rather than a few 2nd & 3rds and it would not matter.

Before they mentioned the fact that it did handle and hold the road well they had to define it as a pig

Before they mentioned that it had gobs of torque, variable valve timing they had to paint the picture that is was powered by a tractor engine.

Thats the kind of crap those of us are talking about....example.....

You and your girl are going out tonight, she gets all dolled up and looks most excellent.

First thing out of your mouth is "well your a fat pig but tonight you cleaned up pretty good for a change"

Now what kind of mood did you just set for the rest of the evening ?

Once again.. NAILED IT!

It's all about first impressions. And that's something the media has gotten good at now that GM and Ford cars are up to par... They turn the consumer off of the car EMOTIONALLY because they know a logical case can't be made against it.

And thus, we see the OPINIONATED pieces coming out of the woodwork about "The state of GM" or Dan Neil's pieces (Which are all 'whyyou shouldn't buy GM' opinion and rhetoric-not facts) or pieces like this... FACTS do not matter anymore, it's all about OPINION... But the problem is; most consumer take this OPINION as FACT (And the journalists know this)

Therefore... until the 'journalists' lose the bias (Which will be never or not in our life times) Detroit is toast. And THAT is why I'm so enthralled with kicking dirt on the collective media.

since anyone who flips over to the spec or performance info could see the Pontiac was certainly in the ballpark.

But how many people are going to do that? Even better: How many people who 'expect crap from GM'--most of the population, are going to do that? Certainly not enough to sustain a volume division/product. (Goodbye Pontiac)

The truth is that the G6, for whatever reasons, was not quite up to their, admittedly subjective, standards. If I'm not mistaken, the G6 sales have been on an upswing and, it seems that Pontiac has started to reverse its slide into the abyss, so, I'm not sure that this article, about vehicles that are a small slice of the overall sedan pie...i.e 'performance, inexpensive 4 doors" ...are really going to sway too many buyers. We're talking about 50K total of all of these vehicles in a market segment that is in the millions.

At least C&D tried.. And 3 words "word of mouth" advertising. Enthusiasts sell cars.

[enzl]

Once again.. NAILED IT!

It's all about first impressions. And that's something the media has gotten good at now that GM and Ford cars are up to par... They turn the consumer off of the car EMOTIONALLY because they know a logical case can't be made against it.

And thus, we see the OPINIONATED pieces coming out of the woodwork about "The state of GM" or Dan Neil's pieces (Which are all 'whyyou shouldn't buy GM' opinion and rhetoric-not facts) or pieces like this... FACTS do not matter anymore, it's all about OPINION... But the problem is; most consumer take this OPINION as FACT (And the journalists know this)

Therefore... until the 'journalists' lose the bias (Which will be never or not in our life times) Detroit is toast. And THAT is why I'm so enthralled with kicking dirt on the collective media.

But how many people are going to do that? Even better: How many people who 'expect crap from GM'--most of the population, are going to do that? Certainly not enough to sustain a volume division/product. (Goodbye Pontiac)

At least C&D tried.. And 3 words "word of mouth" advertising. Enthusiasts sell cars.

Here's the problem with your argument:

C&D, as well as other decent auto rags, are full of OPINIONS!

If 0-60 times and the like were all that mattered in a purchase, then the argument that the G6 was equal or superior would be supported, easily.

Unfortunately, that's not how it works.

If the 'feel' or the overall character of a car is not to C&D's liking, it'll get a bad review. That's C&D's take on it.

And, I've got news: Lots of other publications have been less than kind to the G6....and, quite frankly, its not a class leading product. Not even close. GM apologists are stretching reality to argue otherwise.

Look, I've got no axe to grind and I have the deepest respect for those that are passionate about GM....but, to me, its like being a smoker...you can deny it is dangerous and won't kill you, but the truth is that a behavioral change is needed to avert disaster for the smoker. Ignoring GM's shortcomings is an epidemic within the organization and, unfortunately, the G6, GTP or otherwise, is not the product is could or should be, just like most of the pre-Lutz era product. I drive hundreds of cars each year. I work for an organization that depends upon GM to put out competitive product-NOW-. It's a tragic error to blame the messenger for the message.

Edited January 25, 2006 by enzl

[frogger]

The Accord isn't cheap. My friend told me any Accord with V6 is well over 35k (Canadian) for a stripper model..

The SE-v6 is $30,400 CAD MSRP.

[vt_hokie]

I haven't read the article or this entire thread, but I have to wonder how much GM hurt itself by giving the G6 a relatively low output OHV engine and a 4 speed automatic at a time when the imports are moving up to the 250 hp range with their DOHC engines and offering 5 and even 6 speed automatic transmissions. Sure, the more expensive GTP has 240 hp, but only gets 26 mpg highway with the old 4 speed auto.

[razoredge]

Here's the problem with your argument:

C&D, as well as other decent auto rags, are full of OPINIONS!

If 0-60 times and the like were all that mattered in a purchase, then the argument that the G6 was equal or superior would be supported, easily.

Unfortunately, that's not how it works.

If the 'feel' or the overall character of a car is not to C&D's liking, it'll get a bad review. That's C&D's take on it.

And, I've got news: Lots of other publications have been less than kind to the G6....and, quite frankly, its not a class leading product. Not even close. GM apologists are stretching reality to argue otherwise.

Look, I've got no axe to grind and I have the deepest respect for those that are passionate about GM....but, to me, its like being a smoker...you can deny it is dangerous and won't kill you, but the truth is that a behavioral change is needed to avert disaster for the smoker. Ignoring GM's shortcomings is an epidemic within the organization and, unfortunately, the G6, GTP or otherwise, is not the product is could or should be, just like most of the pre-Lutz era product. I drive hundreds of cars each year. I work for an organization that depends upon GM to put out competitive product-NOW-.  It's a tragic error to blame the messenger for the message.

and in the same notion, you can not read that article and tell me I am wrong on how they super conducted the mood regarding certain cars........but yet the g6 performed in the middle to the top in the class.

likewise - quit making excuses

it wasnt just 0-60 times it was everything, excellent in lateral G's and transitional steering...braking.....theres no excuses.

[enzl]

I only used 0-60 as an example...I agree that the objective, measured data indicated that the G6 is more than competitive.

It's clear that the subjective failings were to blame for its final score, so to speak.

To me, its the details that bedevil GM...plastics (subpar in many areas), engineering (that the G6 isn't available with the 2.8 turbo or 3.6 V6 is criminal, steering feel like a nintendo with electric assist), half-baked ideas (4 panel sunroof that adds weight & is ratty at 15-20K like the SRX) and, to top it off, a price which NEEDS huge (10-15% retail) rebate to move metal (and kills the inevitable internet comparos that the target audience uses b4 walking into a dealer!)

I readily admit that their Opinions are anti-GM, but I would argue there are subjective reasons why they do 'hold water' in the real world.

Edited January 26, 2006 by enzl

[Sal Collaziano]

Wow! They got a 5.9 0-60 in the Accord.. That's pretty amazing.. An Accord family sedan...

Edited January 26, 2006 by Sal Collaziano

[FRANKENSTEIN]

I honestly believe that if the took a jetta and badge it G6 and told the magazine that it was the new G6 they would lose just because it's a GM.

I am so feed up with the American magazine putting down GM products, it doesn't seem to matter what GM builts (except for the corvette) it's never good enough.

I really love my GMs they have given me nothing but good service over the years.

i own an 86 Fiero GT do you guys remember how the magazine ALLWAYS put it down compared to the Toyota MR2, i remember because i kept the mags, my questions is which car has stood the test of time? you can buy just about any parts you want for it, there is business that specialise in Fieros, which car is being sought after? they still look current they are a testamony to good GM design.

I am Canadian and it bugs me they always praise design from off shore, i buy American products because i also know that it helps ALL of us in North America.

That's it i am off my soap box now.

have a nice day.

J-P