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GM News: GM to Offer Stop-Start on Most of Their Lineup By 2020


William Maley

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General Motors is planning to expand the use of start-stop systems across most of their range by 2020 in an effort to improve fleetwide fuel economy. The plan will see at one powertrain combination offered in a vehicle to have this system. Stop-start systems work by turning off the engine when the vehicle isn't moving. When the driver removes his/her foot from the brake, the engine will kick back on.

 

This move comes as the EPA will start handing out credits towards compliance with corporate average fuel economy standards to automakers who use this system in their vehicles next year.

 

"Everyone will end up adding start-stop. Now there's a benefit in the EPA cycle, which there wasn't a few years ago. GM's new nine- and 10-speed automatic transmissions have been engineered from the beginning to incorporate start-stop. That will make it much easier and much smoother. That's what's been the holdup. First it was a regulatory issue, then it was a hardware issue," said AutoPacific analyst Dave Sullivan.

 

GM spokesman Tom Read tells Automotive News that vehicles equipped with the stop-start system will use absorbent glass mat batteries (AGM) and tandem solenoid starters to enable faster and smoother restarts.

 

Source: Automotive News (Subscription Required)


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a friend took me in his 14 malibu for a ride and it had start stop......worked pretty well.  

 

All that said, I WANT A SWITCH TO TURN IT OFF IF I WANT.....

 

reasons- 

 

winter (i don't care that it turns itself off at a certain temp)

when your car ages and may have trouble running, why would you want something that deliberately shuts off the car

continual stop and start is hard on vehicle components and fluids, turning off start stop would reduce wear

 

Not being able to turn off the start / stop = federal overreach

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Your final point about reducing wear is exactly backwards and out of date. The GM system keeps the oil pressurized, The engine fires nearly instantly with direct injection, and in the case of the BAS system, the regular starter is not used.

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Wonder how well it will hold up over time...

 

Thinking it should last 200k like the rest of the car....

 

In the eAssist systems, it's just a giant alternator that can also be a 15 horsepower electric motor, attached to the crank pulley via a thicker than normal serpentine belt.  The technical difference is so minor..... it's nothing to worry about.  The current start/stop system is just the old eAssist system with a smaller battery and smaller alternator/motor which doesn't assist the engine during acceleration.

 

Given all of GM's other troubles over the past 10 years, the fact that we've heard basically nothing bad about the reliability of eAssist should tell us something. 

 

That said... this announcement sounds like a different setup than the eAssist in that it runs through the transmission instead, making it more of a traditional starter.

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Your final point about reducing wear is exactly backwards and out of date. The GM system keeps the oil pressurized, The engine fires nearly instantly with direct injection, and in the case of the BAS system, the regular starter is not used.

That is very good to know.

 

Although I would still appreciate a switch to be able to turn it off. And if the system is as seamless as they make it sound, then I'll never turn it off. 

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Your final point about reducing wear is exactly backwards and out of date. The GM system keeps the oil pressurized, The engine fires nearly instantly with direct injection, and in the case of the BAS system, the regular starter is not used.

That is very good to know.

 

Although I would still appreciate a switch to be able to turn it off. And if the system is as seamless as they make it sound, then I'll never turn it off. 

 

 

It takes about half a day to get used to it.... and that was even on the jittery Benz version.

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Your final point about reducing wear is exactly backwards and out of date. The GM system keeps the oil pressurized, The engine fires nearly instantly with direct injection, and in the case of the BAS system, the regular starter is not used.

That is very good to know.

 

Although I would still appreciate a switch to be able to turn it off. And if the system is as seamless as they make it sound, then I'll never turn it off. 

 

same here, it should be user control.

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Let me make this clear from the start I am not a fan of the start stop.  I too wish for a delete button. 

 

Now let me get to the truth about the system. GM has one of if not the best system out there. It is smooth and is pretty much not noticeable unless you really are looking for it. [Even I have to admit my reluctance is petty] 

 

The cars today get up to temp in the matter of a mile or so and will get to temp even faster moving ahead. Fast warm up is key to lower emissions and that is a focus of all companies. 

 

The system has proven durable in the older cars and trucks with it. While rare they have not seen any major issues. 

Wear is a falsehood by those who really are not up on the system or systems out today. 

The delete button is much like the Skip shift. It has to be on full time to be considered by the EPA to get the MPG listed. Now with that said I would not be shocked if Jet or Hypertech may make a OBDII plug in that may defeat the shut down if you so choose. GM will not fight them on it in the aftermarket. 

 

The only real negative is if something does go out it could be a bit pricey to replace but on today's cars most things are pricey. But even then how often have you had to replace a starter lately. I have had going on 30 cars over the years and only had two go out on late 68 and 70 Chevy. 

It has gotten to the point where cars may run longer but when they do wear parts out their worth is less than the value of a change of a cam belt or other mechanical issue anymore. I suspect the used car market may be in for some changes with high mileage hybrids and higher tech cars in need of repair. 

 

Many will be parted out and may lead to even more salvage parts being sold by dismantlers.

 

As for the stop start it is seen where most companies will have it on 75% or more of their cars from most MFG. The deal is you are going to get it no matter if you like it or not.  

 

At some point these will become the norm and we may notice more the cars that do not shut off than the ones that do. 

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Wonder how well it will hold up over time...

 

Thinking it should last 200k like the rest of the car....

 

In the eAssist systems, it's just a giant alternator that can also be a 15 horsepower electric motor, attached to the crank pulley via a thicker than normal serpentine belt.  The technical difference is so minor..... it's nothing to worry about.  The current start/stop system is just the old eAssist system with a smaller battery and smaller alternator/motor which doesn't assist the engine during acceleration.

 

Given all of GM's other troubles over the past 10 years, the fact that we've heard basically nothing bad about the reliability of eAssist should tell us something. 

 

That said... this announcement sounds like a different setup than the eAssist in that it runs through the transmission instead, making it more of a traditional starter.

 

 

 

Yeah, kinda what I figure as well. GM does not always tend to be on the forefront of stuff, but tends to make sure it is right and solid when it comes out....

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Let me make this clear from the start I am not a fan of the start stop.  I too wish for a delete button. 

 

Now let me get to the truth about the system. GM has one of if not the best system out there. It is smooth and is pretty much not noticeable unless you really are looking for it. [Even I have to admit my reluctance is petty] 

 

The cars today get up to temp in the matter of a mile or so and will get to temp even faster moving ahead. Fast warm up is key to lower emissions and that is a focus of all companies. 

 

The system has proven durable in the older cars and trucks with it. While rare they have not seen any major issues. 

Wear is a falsehood by those who really are not up on the system or systems out today. 

The delete button is much like the Skip shift. It has to be on full time to be considered by the EPA to get the MPG listed. Now with that said I would not be shocked if Jet or Hypertech may make a OBDII plug in that may defeat the shut down if you so choose. GM will not fight them on it in the aftermarket. 

 

The only real negative is if something does go out it could be a bit pricey to replace but on today's cars most things are pricey. But even then how often have you had to replace a starter lately. I have had going on 30 cars over the years and only had two go out on late 68 and 70 Chevy. 

It has gotten to the point where cars may run longer but when they do wear parts out their worth is less than the value of a change of a cam belt or other mechanical issue anymore. I suspect the used car market may be in for some changes with high mileage hybrids and higher tech cars in need of repair. 

 

Many will be parted out and may lead to even more salvage parts being sold by dismantlers.

 

As for the stop start it is seen where most companies will have it on 75% or more of their cars from most MFG. The deal is you are going to get it no matter if you like it or not.  

 

At some point these will become the norm and we may notice more the cars that do not shut off than the ones that do. 

yup, and despite all that, like a traction control switch, it still would be desired to have the control to turn it off.

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I am so glad the 2016 Spark has a switch to turn off the traction control to enable more epic burnouts and a better chance of continued forward motion in deep snow, sand or mud.

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I would definitely weigh it as a negative in any future purchase.

 

Well by then it will be like Seat Belts as you may not have many options otherwise.  

 

This is an industry wide deal and it is going to be found nearly everywhere. 

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I would definitely weigh it as a negative in any future purchase.

 

Well by then it will be like Seat Belts as you may not have many options otherwise.  

 

This is an industry wide deal and it is going to be found nearly everywhere. 

 

And seat belts can be worn or not worn. ;) (legal ramifications are another story) 

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I would definitely weigh it as a negative in any future purchase.

 

Well by then it will be like Seat Belts as you may not have many options otherwise.  

 

This is an industry wide deal and it is going to be found nearly everywhere. 

 

And seat belts can be worn or not worn. ;) (legal ramifications are another story) 

 

 

 

The bottom line is legally they will have to have it with no defeat switch to count as a EPA boost to MPG. 

 

No different than the skip shift on the Vette. 

 

Now I can see a plug in for the OBDII that could disable it. The after market will provide what the MFG can not do. 

 

In other words don't get worked up over it as there will be a work around. Besides by the time you buy one they may be very common and well sorted. I hate it too but I have seen these dilemmas come and go many times. 

Good god the people got their panties in a wad over cars with Fuel Injection when it came out. It was Oh my god we will never be able to modify them again. Well Look around now. 

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I hope there is an off switch as well.

 

These are good for time you sit a long time at a red light, or sit in a fast food drive through or something like that when you are doing mostly sitting.  But they they start shutting the ending off for 2 seconds at a stop sign they get annoying.

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I had a '16 Malibu in Ohio last week, the start/stop was pretty smooth and unobtrusive.   Though in really hot weather it would be annoying to have the A/C cut in and out. 

 

On the Malibu, if you set the AC to Max, the Start/Stop will be minimized

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I had a '16 Malibu in Ohio last week, the start/stop was pretty smooth and unobtrusive.   Though in really hot weather it would be annoying to have the A/C cut in and out.

 

On the Malibu, if you set the AC to Max, the Start/Stop will be minimized

Good to know. I was never able to shut off the ventilation completely. I could set it to floor or dash vents or both, but never neither. But that's another issue...

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The AC in the stop starts I have been in never were an issue. The only real noticeable thing was the tach dropping and a little jump on start up that is no longer an issue. 

The first one I drove on a truck I was expecting it to feel like the car stalled and it never did. That was long ago too and the newer systems are much better and only getting better. 

Like I said I am not a fan but I can not bad mouth it because it does work. 

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      Make: Toyota
      Model: 4Runner
      Trim: Venture
      Engine: 4.0L DOHC 24-Valve V6
      Driveline: Five-Speed Automatic, Four-Wheel Drive
      Horsepower @ RPM: 270 @ 5,600
      Torque @ RPM: 278 @ 4,400
      Fuel Economy: City/Highway/Combined - 16/19/17
      Curb Weight: N/A
      Location of Manufacture: Tahara, Aichi, Japan
      Base Price: $44,285
      As Tested Price: $48,877 (Includes $1,120.00 Destination Charge and $730.00 Keep It Wild discount)
      Options:
      Kinentic Dynamic Suspension Suspension System (KDSS) - $1,750.00
      TRD Pro Exhaust - $799.00
      Power Tilt/Slide Moonroof - $730.00
      Running Boards - $345.00
      Cargo Floor Mats & Cargo Mat - $269.00
      Door Edge Guard - $79.00
      Year: 2020
      Make: Toyota
      Model: Land Cruiser
      Trim: Heritage Edition
      Engine: 5.7L DOHC 32-Valve VVT-i V8
      Driveline: Eight-Speed Automatic, Four-Wheel Drive
      Horsepower @ RPM: 381 @ 5,600
      Torque @ RPM: 401 @ 3,600
      Fuel Economy: City/Highway/Combined - 13/17/14
      Curb Weight: 5,715 lbs
      Location of Manufacture: Toyota, Aichi, Japan
      Base Price: $87,645
      As Tested Price: $89,239 (Includes $1,295.00 Destination Charge)
      Options:
      Glass Breakage Sensor - $299.00

      View full article
    • By William Maley
      4Runner Venture Edition
      Not much has changed outside since we last checked out the 4Runner in 2016. It still has a blocky and chunky look that helps it stand apart from other SUVs. This Venture model adds several goodies such as TRD wheels, blacked-out trim pieces, and a Yakima roof rack; perfect if you decide to go adventuring. Inside, Toyota has made a massive update to the infotainment system. A larger eight-inch touchscreen running an updated version of Toyota’s Entune system is standard. This change makes it so much easier to operate the system either parked on while on the move. It doesn’t hurt that this system also brings forth Apple CarPlay and Android Auto. Aside from this, the interior hasn’t changed. There is plenty of space for those sitting in the front or back, and controls are well marked. Power comes from the old, but reliable 4.0L V6 with 270 horsepower and 278 pound-feet of torque. This is paired with a five-speed automatic transmission. The base SR5 can be equipped rear-wheel or four-wheel drive, while other trims only come with four-wheel drive. The 4Runner’s performance is adequate. Around town, the V6 can get up to speed quickly and smoothly. But it struggles when trying to get up to higher speeds. Adding an extra gear would allow for more flexibility in terms of performance. It would also help fuel economy as I saw 15.4 mpg for the week. EPA figures are 16 City/19 Highway/17 Combined. My average for the week landed at 15.4 mpg. The 4Runner’s roots of being an old-school SUV show up prominently when driving on pavement. It has noticeable body roll-around turns and the ride quality is rough. One area that I sadly did not get to test was the off-road capability. With such features as Multi-Terrain Select and Crawl Control, this helps make the 4Runner very capable off-road. The 4Runner should be considered by someone who wants to venture off-road. For those who are planning to commute or go on family trips while on pavement, Toyota has other models that should be considered first.
      Land Cruiser Heritage Edition
      The Heritage Edition adds some nice touches to the Land Cruiser’s exterior such as 18-inch BBS wheels with a bronze finish, black accents for the front grille, and vintage-style “Land Cruiser” badges on the rear pillars. The Heritage Edition does lose the entry steps found on the standard model, making it somewhat difficult to get in and out. The interior looks somewhat boring in terms of the design, but Toyota nails the materials. Wood trim, supple leather, and soft-touch materials make this a very pleasant place to be in.  Despite having one of the larger screens in Toyota’s utility lineup, the Land Cruiser’s infotainment system leaves a lot to be desired. Using an older version of Entune, it feels sluggish and the graphics look somewhat dull. No Apple CarPlay or Android Auto to be found here as well. Anyone sitting in the front or second-row will have no complaints about space or comfort. No third-row is available on the Heritage Edition which helps boost cargo space from 41.3 cubic feet (with the third-row folded) to 53.5. Under the hood is a 5.7L V8 engine producing 381 horsepower and 401 pound-feet of torque. This is paired with an eight-speed automatic and a full-time four-wheel drive system.  Performance from this engine is impressive considering the Land Cruiser’s curb weight of almost 6,000 lbs. It will move away from a stop much faster than you first think. The only place where the engine seems to run out of steam is on the highway. The eight-speed automatic does an excellent job of providing smooth and quick shifts. I do wish it wasn’t giddy with trying to shift into top gear quickly. Fuel economy isn’t great with EPA figures of 13 City/17 Highway/14 Combined. I only got 13 mpg during my week. I was surprised at how well the Land Cruiser drove on pavement. It felt stable and provided a ride that made even some of the roughest roads feel smooth. There is a fair amount of body roll when cornering, but that is to be expected considering the size and intended purpose of this vehicle. I am bummed that I didn’t get the chance to take the Land Cruiser off-road during my week. But from reading other reviews, very few vehicles can match what is on offer. How to sum up the Land Cruiser Heritage Edition? This is a vehicle that will not impress most due to the poor fuel economy and aging infotainment system. But for a small group who are wanting something that can take them anywhere and back, and do it in comfort, the Land Cruiser is the right vehicle. (Addendum: As I post this review a few months late, I have some news on the Land Cruiser. Earlier this month, Toyota unveiled the next-generation model with a new twin-turbo V6 replacing the V8. The outside doesn't look that much different from the current model, but the interior has underwent some major changes. It is unclear whether or not we'll see this model arrive in the U.S. The best chance we possibly have is next-generation LX. Stay tuned. -WM)
      Disclaimer: Toyota Provided the SUVs, Insurance, and One Tank of Gas
      Year: 2020
      Make: Toyota
      Model: 4Runner
      Trim: Venture
      Engine: 4.0L DOHC 24-Valve V6
      Driveline: Five-Speed Automatic, Four-Wheel Drive
      Horsepower @ RPM: 270 @ 5,600
      Torque @ RPM: 278 @ 4,400
      Fuel Economy: City/Highway/Combined - 16/19/17
      Curb Weight: N/A
      Location of Manufacture: Tahara, Aichi, Japan
      Base Price: $44,285
      As Tested Price: $48,877 (Includes $1,120.00 Destination Charge and $730.00 Keep It Wild discount)
      Options:
      Kinentic Dynamic Suspension Suspension System (KDSS) - $1,750.00
      TRD Pro Exhaust - $799.00
      Power Tilt/Slide Moonroof - $730.00
      Running Boards - $345.00
      Cargo Floor Mats & Cargo Mat - $269.00
      Door Edge Guard - $79.00
      Year: 2020
      Make: Toyota
      Model: Land Cruiser
      Trim: Heritage Edition
      Engine: 5.7L DOHC 32-Valve VVT-i V8
      Driveline: Eight-Speed Automatic, Four-Wheel Drive
      Horsepower @ RPM: 381 @ 5,600
      Torque @ RPM: 401 @ 3,600
      Fuel Economy: City/Highway/Combined - 13/17/14
      Curb Weight: 5,715 lbs
      Location of Manufacture: Toyota, Aichi, Japan
      Base Price: $87,645
      As Tested Price: $89,239 (Includes $1,295.00 Destination Charge)
      Options:
      Glass Breakage Sensor - $299.00
    • By William Maley
      Have you ever wondered what it would be to add all-wheel drive to a Prius? What about adding slightly more sport to a Corolla hatchback? Wonder no more as I can tell you some thoughts on the 2020 Toyota Prius AWD-e and Corolla XSE hatchback.
      Prius XLE AWD-e
      The Prius AWD-e powertrain is mostly the same as you'll find in the standard model - a 1.8L inline-four paired with an electric motor to provide an output of 121 horsepower. But, the e-AWD adds a second electric motor producing 7 horsepower and 40 pound-feet onto the rear axle. This provides extra traction and helps with initial acceleration (up to 6 mph). The other change deals with the battery as Toyota swaps the lithium-ion pack for a nickel-metal hydride. Toyota says the nickel-metal hydride chemistry has better resilience in extremely cold temperatures. Does the addition of a second electric motor make the Prius any faster? Not at all. It feels the same as the standard Prius; fine in stop-go driving, but struggling during hard acceleration such as merging onto a freeway. The AWD system is very unobtrusive, you don’t notice come on when one of the front wheels loses traction. There is an important caveat to note; this system only operates up to 43 mph. This is likely due to Toyota wanting to keep somewhat high fuel economy figures. As for fuel economy, the EPA rates the Prius AWD-e at 52 City/48 Highway/50 Combined - the lowest of any Prius model. My average for the week was a slightly disappointing 47 mpg. Handling characteristics are the same as the standard Prius. It's slightly fun to drive on winding roads with minimal body roll, but the steering is lackluster. Ride comfort is excellent with most bumps being ironed out. The AWD option does make the Prius a more appealing option for those living in the snow belt who still want excellent fuel economy. Corolla XSE Hatchback

      Toyota wants to make it clear the XSE is the sporting version of the Corolla Hatchback and it shows on the exterior. There is a distinct rear wing, 18-inch wheels with black inserts, and a body kit that makes the hatchback stand out from the plain-jane SE. Power comes from the same 2.0L inline-four found in the SE, producing 169 horsepower. In my tester, I had the standard six-speed manual. The CVT is an option. I was hoping for a slight improvement in overall performance with the manual, but it’s similar to the CVT. The engine feels more suited around town where it can get up to speed pretty quick. But it does show some signs of struggling when trying to reach higher speeds. The manual transmission is a mixed bag. The throws are a bit too long for any sort of enthusiastic driving and it is slightly difficult to slot into the next gear due to the vague feeling gate. But, the clutch is very easy to modulate. Despite having a sportier tune for the suspension, I couldn't tell any difference in the handling between this and the SE hatchback I drove in 2020. Both feel agile and composed when driven on a curvy stretch of pavement. I will say the SE does a better job of minimizing impacts from bumps and potholes with smaller wheels. The only reasons I see picking the XSE over the SE is for the more aggressive looks and additional standard equipment (dual-zone climate control, 7-inch screen in the instrument cluster, and power-adjustable driver seat). Otherwise, the SE offers the same driving dynamics, manual transmission, and a slightly better ride for less money. Disclaimer: Toyota Provided the vehicles, Insurance, and One Tank of Gas
      Year: 2020
      Make: Toyota
      Model: Prius AWD-e
      Trim: XLE
      Engine: 1.8L DOHC 16-Valve VVT-i Four-Cylinder, AC Synchronous Motor
      Driveline: ECVT, All Wheel Drive
      Horsepower @ RPM: 96 @ 5,200 (Gas): 71 @ 0 (Electric Motor 1): 7 @ 0 (Electric Motor 2): 121 (Combined)
      Torque @ RPM: 105 @ 3,600 (Gas): 
      Fuel Economy: City/Highway/Combined - 52/48/50
      Curb Weight: 3,220 lbs
      Location of Manufacture: 
      Base Price: $28,375
      As Tested Price: $31,757 (Includes $995.00 Destination Charge)
      Options:
      Advanced Technology Package - $800.00
      Year: 2020
      Make: Toyota
      Model: Corolla Hatchback
      Trim: XSE
      Engine: 2.0 DOHC 15-Valve D-4S with Dual VVT-i Four-Cylinder
      Driveline: Six-Speed Manual, Front-Wheel Drive
      Horsepower @ RPM: 168 @ 6,600
      Torque @ RPM: 151 @ 4,800
      Fuel Economy: City/Highway/Combined - 28/37/31
      Curb Weight: 3,060 lbs
      Location of Manufacture: Aichi, Japan
      Base Price: $23,240
      As Tested Price: $26,450 (Includes $955.00 Destination Charge)
      Options:
      Black Roof, Spoiler, and Side Mirrors - $500.00
      Adaptive Headlights - $415.00
      Rear Window Spoiler - $375.00
      Carpet Mat Package - $249.00
      Door Sill Protectors - $165.00
      Black Emblem Overlays - $129.00
      Mudguards - $129.00
      Door Edge Guard - $125.00
      Rear Bumper Protector - $89.00
      TRD Air Filter - $79.00

      View full article
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