Jump to content
  • Greetings Guest!

    CheersandGears.com was founded in 2001 and is one of the oldest continuously operating automotive forums out there.  Come see why we have users who visit nearly every day for the past 16+ years. Signup is fast and free, or you can opt for a premium subscription to view the site ad-free.

dfelt

Indiana Slaps new fee on EV's.

Recommended Posts

G. David Felt
Staff Writer Alternative Energy - www.CheersandGears.com

 

Indiana Slaps new fee on EV's.

According to a post today by Green Car Reports, the state of Indiana has rolled out new fees for owning an Electric car being the second state behind Michigan with fees that cost more to drive an EV than a petro model.

Indiana EV owners will have to pay a $15 increase over standard registration fees when buying the EV. Plus a year $150 fee. Indiana has also moved to increase their gas tax from .10 cents per gallon one of the lowest in the country to .28 cents per gallon an .18 cent increase. The State legislation says that based on an average of 12,000 miles a year, 25 mpg, the average Indiana state resident will pay about $134.40 per year in gas tax. A Toyota Prius owner would pay about $67.20 based on their 50 mpg rating. This means that the EV driver will pay more than either hypothetical driver the House Republicans have stated who sponsored the bill. These folks believe this EV bill will add $2 million a year in revenue to the general fund. The representatives stated this was needed to help cover the cost of highway projects and lost gas tax revenue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

all hail the power of the state!  haha... still not really that much.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, balthazar said:

It is NOT the business of Gov't to arbitrarily legislate simply for "lost" revenue!

How else do you want the roads paid for? Toll everything?

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

How else do you want the roads paid for? Toll everything?

No. No toll.

But...legalize pot and the profit from pot pays for roads.

Just an idea. Im not advocating this. Just for back and forth banter purposes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Quote

How else do you want the roads paid for? Toll everything?

Think a little bit for a change. Budget better. Trim administration. Review contract bids MUCH more stringently. Think long-term. Stop blowing money on pet projects that look good on executive's resumes.

This is a little over half of the scratch REbuilt 23-lane toll plaza at the southern terminus of the Jersey Turnpike (a toll road). My wife used to travel down to Delaware for work on regular occasion a number of years back- she said the place was always empty. I went thru Mon this week around 9:30AM, the place was empty. I was unable to find a construction cost, I wouldn't be surprised if it was 100 million…. of toll money collected to maintain the roads. But oh- a 1000 Bolts are going to cost 'dollars we just don't have, unless tax' to maintain the roads. 

'Lost revenue'- please.

Edited by balthazar
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

No. No toll.

But...legalize pot and the profit from pot pays for roads.

Just an idea. Im not advocating this. Just for back and forth banter purposes.

Why should a pot user who doesn't own a car pay for the roads?

The gasoline tax was instituted because fuel use is a direct correlation with both distance traveled and weight of a vehicle.  All 4+ wheel vehicles put wear on roads, but a million Ford Fiestas do a lot less wear and tear on the road over time than a million F-250s. So a Ford Fiesta should pay less tax for that wear... and it does so by using less fuel and being more efficient.

Conversely, an F-250 that only travels 5,000 miles in a year uses the roads a lot less than a Fiesta doing 50,000 miles in a year, and pays less tax by using less fuel.

Unless we went to a yearly tax based entirely on distance X weight, the fuel tax is the fairest way to apply the tax.

EVs and Hybrids messed up that equation by not using as much fuel or not using fuel at all.  A Chevy Volt can go 20,000 miles in a year and only fill up 4 times. 

4 minutes ago, balthazar said:

 

Think a little bit for a change. Budget better. Trim administration. Review contract bids MUCH more stringently. Think long-term. Stop blowing money on pet projects that look good on executive's resumes.

This is a little over half of the scratch REbuilt 23-lane toll plaza at the southern terminus of the Jersey Turnpike (a toll road). My wife used to travel down to Delaware for work on regular occasion a number of years back- she said the place was always empty. I went thru Mon this week around 9:30AM, the place was empty. I was unable to find a construction cost, I wouldn't be surprised if it was 100 million…. of toll money collected to maintain the roads. But oh- a 1000 Bolts are going to cost 'dollars we just don't have, unless tax' to maintain the roads. 

'Lost revenue'- please.

I'm not against full review of spending projects at all, that could even mean a reduction in gasoline taxes..... But the tax paid should be levied fairly.  Why should EV drivers get a free ride?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Drew Dowdell

LOL

Im sorry about my post. I was joking. Being foolish. Trolling if you will.

Very good points though.

Points that even If was playing devil's advocate, I wouldnt be able to counter.

 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seriously speaking though.

When I read this yesterday, my opinion was that the State of Indiana is against EVs and this is just a way to discourage people to buy EVs. I refrained from giving this opinion as I felt I was rushing my thoughts. Its a good thing I didnt share this thought process yesterday as reading yours (Drew's) and Suave's posts makes me realize that infrastructure repairs need a way to be financed. As gasoline usage goes down and EV usage goes up (eventually)...so does the need for governments to seek replacement income for said upkeep.

Edited by oldshurst442
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Seriously speaking though.

When I read this yesterday, my opinion was that the State of Indiana is against EVs and this is just a way to discourage people to buy EVs. I refrained from giving this opinion as I felt was rushing my thoughts. Its a good thing I didnt share this thought process as reading yours and Suave's posts makes me realize that infrastructure repairs need a way to be financed. As gasoline usage goes down and EV usage goes up...so does the need for government to seek replacement income for said upkeep.

I'm not sure that Indiana's solution is a good long term one, but it's probably the best they can do at the moment. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I'm not sure that Indiana's solution is a good long term one, but it's probably the best they can do at the moment. 

Well. In Québec. No extra fees or taxes are put into EVs or EV usage. The opposite is true.

Sales tax exemptions for EV purchases. Lower Hydro rates for personal charging stations that are in your home, etc...

The only thing that may be more is car registration fees that are higher. But then again, maybe that is because a Tesla model S is a 100 000 dollar car and that puts it into luxury territory and luxury cars in Québec  are registered at a higher rate than normal cars...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Why should EV drivers get a free ride?

What do they do with hybrids- there's revenue being 'lost' there with every electric mile.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, balthazar said:

What do they do with hybrids- there's revenue being 'lost' there with every electric mile.

Eventually they're going to have to address that too.

There's even revenue being lost when Explorers and Durangos are getting 25mpg now verse the 18 mpg they got 15 years ago. The vehicles weigh the same or more yet are traveling further on the same gallon of gas, thus the tax per wear mile is lower today than it was 15 years ago. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did anybody say...Free Ride?

Electric guitars....electric cars...

All over the country I've seen it the same
Nobody's winning at this kind of game
We've gotta do better, it's time to begin
You know all the answers must come from within
So come on and take a free ride

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

There's even revenue being lost when Explorers and Durangos are getting 25mpg now verse the 18 mpg they got 15 years ago. 

That's exactly where Gov't, as highly-compensated professionals/experts (supposedly- there are some amazingly stupid people on the public payroll), need to come up with the means to address this by every other available means BEFORE 'squeeze the public again' is automatically gone to. It is not supposed to be about 'protecting revenue streams' but protecting & serving the interests of the American citizen. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What category does infrastructure maintenance belong to?

Does it belong in the 'protecting & serving the interests of the American citizen' (or Canadian in my case) category?

Because I think it does.

Not that I dont agree with you @balthazar with your reasoning and your pleas regarding 'lost revenue streams'...

I agree wholeheartedly.

Less corruption in Quebec's case regarding construction contracts should be the rule of thumb waaaay before gouging citizens pockets...but it does take a ton of money to repair roads.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, balthazar said:

That's exactly where Gov't, as highly-compensated professionals/experts (supposedly- there are some amazingly stupid people on the public payroll), need to come up with the means to address this by every other available means BEFORE 'squeeze the public again' is automatically gone to. It is not supposed to be about 'protecting revenue streams' but protecting & serving the interests of the American citizen. 

This isn't about squeezing the public again. This is about trying to address a disparity in the way the fees are levied.  I'd agree with you how Indiana did it isn't the best way to go about it, but it is an issue that is going to have to be figured out. 

Our roads and infrastructure are in shambles... we aren't even keeping up with the maintenance on what we have today. Furthermore, the infrastructure is already being subsidized by the general tax base instead of solely on fuel taxes... to the tune of 57%.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Many states are losing money on gas tax and there are many plans on how to recover it. Oregon wants to charge you by the mile and the system is already sorted out. It is only a matter of time they will put it into play. 

Other will just keep raising the plate fees and other deals. 

Get used to it as CAFE goes up we will see more of this. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, hyperv6 said:

Many states are losing money on gas tax and there are many plans on how to recover it.

This is, again, my beef with the narrative. States are not "losing money"; (in some cases) they're simply not making as much as they did earlierBut that's never the way it's worded, is it? Where is it written that peak revenue is guaranteed?

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, balthazar said:

This is, again, my beef with the narrative. States are not "losing money"; (in some cases) they're simply not making as much as they did earlierBut that's never the way it's worded, is it? Where is it written that peak revenue is guaranteed?

Few states have not been pulling from the general fund for decades now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Few states have not been pulling from the general fund for decades now.

Pulling from the general fund is only indicative of operating outside their means, nothing else. Get lean or get out.
We've got to put the lid on spending somewhere & somehow. 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, balthazar said:

What do they do with hybrids- there's revenue being 'lost' there with every electric mile.

This is why tax by mile is fair for everyone. The more you drive the more you pay. With the Semi's having GPS, they can have them pay their fair share too for long haul trucking.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Eh, governments are doing too much of stealing wealth from the future by printing currency, but that's for another thread, another political crisis, and lots of blah blah on many view points on how to fix it, probably all being very good blah blah's.

 

Also, I LAUGHED MY ASS OFF TO HOW DREW REPLIED TO OLD'S FUNNY POST......

.....THAT WAS LIKE, 13/10, PLATINUM REWARDS CLASS HUMOUR....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your content will need to be approved by a moderator

Guest
You are commenting as a guest. If you have an account, please sign in.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




  • Similar Content

    • By dfelt
      We are in the Golden Age of Auto's with a revolution that will see the gentle passing of ICE Auto's as they are replaced by the EV Auto. With today's small 2% plus market share, the EV auto is having a major impact on auto suppliers. 
      According to the director of product development, filtration and engine peripherals J.D. Kehoe of Mahle Filter Systems of North America, the ICE downsizing, 48V Hybridization and electric traction motors are affecting the development of future powertrains. Mahle's corporate strategy is to keep on top of all trends supporting the wide variety of options and yet that also comes with the added danger that if you make the wrong call, a company could be on the hook for millions of dollars in parts cost if they build and support the wrong tech version of any given powertrain.
      You have the success of the Chevrolet Bolt, Nissan Leaf and Tesla making up the 2-3% of global deliveries today and by 2023 the auto industry expects to have 205 EV models on the market replacing many ICE models.
      Manufactures have a wide range that specify from 200V to 400V based on the battery packs with each electric motor up to 134HP depending on vehicle design. 
      Mahle has grown their EV portfolio to off EV-oriented technology to OEM customers from high-voltage liquid cooled electric traction motors  that operate in the 400V to 800V range with power output up to 240HP with unlimited lifetimes as they are brushless designs that require little to no maintenance and they are working to increase their motors power density to have offerings up to supercar level.
      Mahle offers 48V IPM synchronous electric motors that can operate in a range of 42V to 52V to meet the needs of various designs for mild hybrid applications.
      Areas of instant growth that Mahle and other auto suppliers are hiring for is in needs of electric AC and heater systems that are low voltage demanding along with leak detection devices as all the new closed system EV systems have a new wave of monitoring to optimize performance / efficiency. 
      Example of this is the need to monitor battery-cell electrolytes that must not come in contact with water or humidity from the cooling system.
      While powertrains are expected to reduce as much as 75% in complexity and parts compared to ICE powertrains, electronics are expected to expand greatly in the various uses from monitoring subsystems to safety and occupant comfort.
      As auto companies look to reduce weight, use new technology material like carbon fiber and high strength plastics the needs to adjust and change quickly means the nimble suppliers will win the evolving change in consumer / commercial auto's.
      Wards Auto Story
      Mahle web site
    • By William Maley
      We know that the current Volkswagen Beetle will soon be heading off to the great parking lot in the sky sometime next year, and that a direct replacement will not happen. But there is talk about bringing back the Beetle as an electric vehicle.
      Volkswagen's design chief Klaus Bischoff revealed to Autocar that he has already made a sketch of a possible Beetle EV, but it will be some time before the automaker makes a decision whether to move forward with this or not. Some of this comes down Volkswagen wanting to get the bigger-selling electric cars into production first (see I.D. hatchback and  I.D. Crozz) before moving onto the 'emotional' models.
      “Our duty is to get the volume [ID] models under way. These cars have super-complicated technology and if you do too much, it’s an overload. Then we [can] move into more exotic cars and the field of emotion,” said Bischoff.
      If Volkswagen does give the green light for a Beetle EV, what could it look like? According to Autocar, the model could grow in size and get two extra doors.
      “The Beetle of today is a very attractive two-door coupé or convertible, but it is limited in the amount of cars that it can sell because it’s a niche. If you look at MEB, the shortest wheelbase [possible] is the ID [hatchback]. If you took that and did the Beetle on it, you have plenty of room so there’s no compromise in functionality any more. So it could be a very attractive car,” explained Bischoff.
      We know there is a fan of an electric Beetle, Volkswagen Group CEO Herbert Diess.
      “We could [build an electric Beetle], because it is rear-wheel drive, no grille. If we wanted to do a Beetle electrically, it would be much better than the current car. Much closer to the history of the Beetle," Diess told Car and Driver back in October.
      Source: Autocar

      View full article
    • By William Maley
      We know that the current Volkswagen Beetle will soon be heading off to the great parking lot in the sky sometime next year, and that a direct replacement will not happen. But there is talk about bringing back the Beetle as an electric vehicle.
      Volkswagen's design chief Klaus Bischoff revealed to Autocar that he has already made a sketch of a possible Beetle EV, but it will be some time before the automaker makes a decision whether to move forward with this or not. Some of this comes down Volkswagen wanting to get the bigger-selling electric cars into production first (see I.D. hatchback and  I.D. Crozz) before moving onto the 'emotional' models.
      “Our duty is to get the volume [ID] models under way. These cars have super-complicated technology and if you do too much, it’s an overload. Then we [can] move into more exotic cars and the field of emotion,” said Bischoff.
      If Volkswagen does give the green light for a Beetle EV, what could it look like? According to Autocar, the model could grow in size and get two extra doors.
      “The Beetle of today is a very attractive two-door coupé or convertible, but it is limited in the amount of cars that it can sell because it’s a niche. If you look at MEB, the shortest wheelbase [possible] is the ID [hatchback]. If you took that and did the Beetle on it, you have plenty of room so there’s no compromise in functionality any more. So it could be a very attractive car,” explained Bischoff.
      We know there is a fan of an electric Beetle, Volkswagen Group CEO Herbert Diess.
      “We could [build an electric Beetle], because it is rear-wheel drive, no grille. If we wanted to do a Beetle electrically, it would be much better than the current car. Much closer to the history of the Beetle," Diess told Car and Driver back in October.
      Source: Autocar
    • By William Maley
      Before the start of this year's Detroit Auto Show, Ford held a press conference revealing new models such as the new Bullitt Mustang and Ranger. But they also teased a new electric crossover wearing an iconic name - Mach 1. The only details provided by Ford is that it would provide a range of 300 miles and launch in 2020. A new report from Autocar has some possible new details on the vehicle.
      The Mach 1 crossover currently has the codename of CX430 and will likely have some design cues inspired by the Mustang. Underpinning the model will be Ford's C2 platform. Currently, this platform is being used for the next-generation Focus and Escape crossover.
      The Mach 1 is part of Ford's plan to launch 16 electric vehicles by 2022.
      Source: Autocar

      View full article
    • By William Maley
      Before the start of this year's Detroit Auto Show, Ford held a press conference revealing new models such as the new Bullitt Mustang and Ranger. But they also teased a new electric crossover wearing an iconic name - Mach 1. The only details provided by Ford is that it would provide a range of 300 miles and launch in 2020. A new report from Autocar has some possible new details on the vehicle.
      The Mach 1 crossover currently has the codename of CX430 and will likely have some design cues inspired by the Mustang. Underpinning the model will be Ford's C2 platform. Currently, this platform is being used for the next-generation Focus and Escape crossover.
      The Mach 1 is part of Ford's plan to launch 16 electric vehicles by 2022.
      Source: Autocar
  • My Clubs

  • Recently Browsing

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Reader Rides

About us

CheersandGears.com - Founded 2001

We ♥ Cars

Get in touch

Follow us

Recent tweets

facebook

×

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.