dfelt

Indiana Slaps new fee on EV's.

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dfelt    1,865

G. David Felt
Staff Writer Alternative Energy - www.CheersandGears.com

 

Indiana Slaps new fee on EV's.

According to a post today by Green Car Reports, the state of Indiana has rolled out new fees for owning an Electric car being the second state behind Michigan with fees that cost more to drive an EV than a petro model.

Indiana EV owners will have to pay a $15 increase over standard registration fees when buying the EV. Plus a year $150 fee. Indiana has also moved to increase their gas tax from .10 cents per gallon one of the lowest in the country to .28 cents per gallon an .18 cent increase. The State legislation says that based on an average of 12,000 miles a year, 25 mpg, the average Indiana state resident will pay about $134.40 per year in gas tax. A Toyota Prius owner would pay about $67.20 based on their 50 mpg rating. This means that the EV driver will pay more than either hypothetical driver the House Republicans have stated who sponsored the bill. These folks believe this EV bill will add $2 million a year in revenue to the general fund. The representatives stated this was needed to help cover the cost of highway projects and lost gas tax revenue.

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Drew Dowdell    5,159
17 hours ago, balthazar said:

It is NOT the business of Gov't to arbitrarily legislate simply for "lost" revenue!

How else do you want the roads paid for? Toll everything?

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oldshurst442    1,044
22 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

How else do you want the roads paid for? Toll everything?

No. No toll.

But...legalize pot and the profit from pot pays for roads.

Just an idea. Im not advocating this. Just for back and forth banter purposes.

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balthazar    2,002

 

Quote

How else do you want the roads paid for? Toll everything?

Think a little bit for a change. Budget better. Trim administration. Review contract bids MUCH more stringently. Think long-term. Stop blowing money on pet projects that look good on executive's resumes.

This is a little over half of the scratch REbuilt 23-lane toll plaza at the southern terminus of the Jersey Turnpike (a toll road). My wife used to travel down to Delaware for work on regular occasion a number of years back- she said the place was always empty. I went thru Mon this week around 9:30AM, the place was empty. I was unable to find a construction cost, I wouldn't be surprised if it was 100 million…. of toll money collected to maintain the roads. But oh- a 1000 Bolts are going to cost 'dollars we just don't have, unless tax' to maintain the roads. 

'Lost revenue'- please.

Edited by balthazar
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Drew Dowdell    5,159
4 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

No. No toll.

But...legalize pot and the profit from pot pays for roads.

Just an idea. Im not advocating this. Just for back and forth banter purposes.

Why should a pot user who doesn't own a car pay for the roads?

The gasoline tax was instituted because fuel use is a direct correlation with both distance traveled and weight of a vehicle.  All 4+ wheel vehicles put wear on roads, but a million Ford Fiestas do a lot less wear and tear on the road over time than a million F-250s. So a Ford Fiesta should pay less tax for that wear... and it does so by using less fuel and being more efficient.

Conversely, an F-250 that only travels 5,000 miles in a year uses the roads a lot less than a Fiesta doing 50,000 miles in a year, and pays less tax by using less fuel.

Unless we went to a yearly tax based entirely on distance X weight, the fuel tax is the fairest way to apply the tax.

EVs and Hybrids messed up that equation by not using as much fuel or not using fuel at all.  A Chevy Volt can go 20,000 miles in a year and only fill up 4 times. 

4 minutes ago, balthazar said:

 

Think a little bit for a change. Budget better. Trim administration. Review contract bids MUCH more stringently. Think long-term. Stop blowing money on pet projects that look good on executive's resumes.

This is a little over half of the scratch REbuilt 23-lane toll plaza at the southern terminus of the Jersey Turnpike (a toll road). My wife used to travel down to Delaware for work on regular occasion a number of years back- she said the place was always empty. I went thru Mon this week around 9:30AM, the place was empty. I was unable to find a construction cost, I wouldn't be surprised if it was 100 million…. of toll money collected to maintain the roads. But oh- a 1000 Bolts are going to cost 'dollars we just don't have, unless tax' to maintain the roads. 

'Lost revenue'- please.

I'm not against full review of spending projects at all, that could even mean a reduction in gasoline taxes..... But the tax paid should be levied fairly.  Why should EV drivers get a free ride?

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oldshurst442    1,044

@Drew Dowdell

LOL

Im sorry about my post. I was joking. Being foolish. Trolling if you will.

Very good points though.

Points that even If was playing devil's advocate, I wouldnt be able to counter.

 

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oldshurst442    1,044

Seriously speaking though.

When I read this yesterday, my opinion was that the State of Indiana is against EVs and this is just a way to discourage people to buy EVs. I refrained from giving this opinion as I felt I was rushing my thoughts. Its a good thing I didnt share this thought process yesterday as reading yours (Drew's) and Suave's posts makes me realize that infrastructure repairs need a way to be financed. As gasoline usage goes down and EV usage goes up (eventually)...so does the need for governments to seek replacement income for said upkeep.

Edited by oldshurst442
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Drew Dowdell    5,159
2 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Seriously speaking though.

When I read this yesterday, my opinion was that the State of Indiana is against EVs and this is just a way to discourage people to buy EVs. I refrained from giving this opinion as I felt was rushing my thoughts. Its a good thing I didnt share this thought process as reading yours and Suave's posts makes me realize that infrastructure repairs need a way to be financed. As gasoline usage goes down and EV usage goes up...so does the need for government to seek replacement income for said upkeep.

I'm not sure that Indiana's solution is a good long term one, but it's probably the best they can do at the moment. 

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oldshurst442    1,044
2 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I'm not sure that Indiana's solution is a good long term one, but it's probably the best they can do at the moment. 

Well. In Québec. No extra fees or taxes are put into EVs or EV usage. The opposite is true.

Sales tax exemptions for EV purchases. Lower Hydro rates for personal charging stations that are in your home, etc...

The only thing that may be more is car registration fees that are higher. But then again, maybe that is because a Tesla model S is a 100 000 dollar car and that puts it into luxury territory and luxury cars in Québec  are registered at a higher rate than normal cars...

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balthazar    2,002
36 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Why should EV drivers get a free ride?

What do they do with hybrids- there's revenue being 'lost' there with every electric mile.

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Drew Dowdell    5,159
4 minutes ago, balthazar said:

What do they do with hybrids- there's revenue being 'lost' there with every electric mile.

Eventually they're going to have to address that too.

There's even revenue being lost when Explorers and Durangos are getting 25mpg now verse the 18 mpg they got 15 years ago. The vehicles weigh the same or more yet are traveling further on the same gallon of gas, thus the tax per wear mile is lower today than it was 15 years ago. 

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oldshurst442    1,044

Did anybody say...Free Ride?

Electric guitars....electric cars...

All over the country I've seen it the same
Nobody's winning at this kind of game
We've gotta do better, it's time to begin
You know all the answers must come from within
So come on and take a free ride

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balthazar    2,002
15 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

There's even revenue being lost when Explorers and Durangos are getting 25mpg now verse the 18 mpg they got 15 years ago. 

That's exactly where Gov't, as highly-compensated professionals/experts (supposedly- there are some amazingly stupid people on the public payroll), need to come up with the means to address this by every other available means BEFORE 'squeeze the public again' is automatically gone to. It is not supposed to be about 'protecting revenue streams' but protecting & serving the interests of the American citizen. 

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oldshurst442    1,044

What category does infrastructure maintenance belong to?

Does it belong in the 'protecting & serving the interests of the American citizen' (or Canadian in my case) category?

Because I think it does.

Not that I dont agree with you @balthazar with your reasoning and your pleas regarding 'lost revenue streams'...

I agree wholeheartedly.

Less corruption in Quebec's case regarding construction contracts should be the rule of thumb waaaay before gouging citizens pockets...but it does take a ton of money to repair roads.

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Drew Dowdell    5,159
24 minutes ago, balthazar said:

That's exactly where Gov't, as highly-compensated professionals/experts (supposedly- there are some amazingly stupid people on the public payroll), need to come up with the means to address this by every other available means BEFORE 'squeeze the public again' is automatically gone to. It is not supposed to be about 'protecting revenue streams' but protecting & serving the interests of the American citizen. 

This isn't about squeezing the public again. This is about trying to address a disparity in the way the fees are levied.  I'd agree with you how Indiana did it isn't the best way to go about it, but it is an issue that is going to have to be figured out. 

Our roads and infrastructure are in shambles... we aren't even keeping up with the maintenance on what we have today. Furthermore, the infrastructure is already being subsidized by the general tax base instead of solely on fuel taxes... to the tune of 57%.

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hyperv6    774

Many states are losing money on gas tax and there are many plans on how to recover it. Oregon wants to charge you by the mile and the system is already sorted out. It is only a matter of time they will put it into play. 

Other will just keep raising the plate fees and other deals. 

Get used to it as CAFE goes up we will see more of this. 

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balthazar    2,002
1 hour ago, hyperv6 said:

Many states are losing money on gas tax and there are many plans on how to recover it.

This is, again, my beef with the narrative. States are not "losing money"; (in some cases) they're simply not making as much as they did earlierBut that's never the way it's worded, is it? Where is it written that peak revenue is guaranteed?

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Drew Dowdell    5,159
22 minutes ago, balthazar said:

This is, again, my beef with the narrative. States are not "losing money"; (in some cases) they're simply not making as much as they did earlierBut that's never the way it's worded, is it? Where is it written that peak revenue is guaranteed?

Few states have not been pulling from the general fund for decades now.

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balthazar    2,002
5 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Few states have not been pulling from the general fund for decades now.

Pulling from the general fund is only indicative of operating outside their means, nothing else. Get lean or get out.
We've got to put the lid on spending somewhere & somehow. 

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dfelt    1,865
4 hours ago, balthazar said:

What do they do with hybrids- there's revenue being 'lost' there with every electric mile.

This is why tax by mile is fair for everyone. The more you drive the more you pay. With the Semi's having GPS, they can have them pay their fair share too for long haul trucking.

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Suaviloquent    713

Eh, governments are doing too much of stealing wealth from the future by printing currency, but that's for another thread, another political crisis, and lots of blah blah on many view points on how to fix it, probably all being very good blah blah's.

 

Also, I LAUGHED MY ASS OFF TO HOW DREW REPLIED TO OLD'S FUNNY POST......

.....THAT WAS LIKE, 13/10, PLATINUM REWARDS CLASS HUMOUR....

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