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William Maley

Mercedez Benz News Mercedes-Benz Plans on Offering 10 EVs By 2022

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Mercedes-Benz is going all in on electric vehicles with the launch of the EQ sub-brand by the end of this decade. Previously, the German automaker planned to have ten electric vehicles in the EQ lineup by 2025. But a new report from Automotive News says that timeframe has been pushed up to 2022.

Why move this goal forward? According to the report, Mercedes wants to lessen the backlash various automakers are currently dealing with due to the diesel vehicles. Diamler, Mercedes-Benz's parent company is currently under investigation by German prosecutors for possible fraud and false advertising on some of their diesel models. Also, Diamler's plan on reducing CO2 emissions across their entire fleet hit a snag last year due to buyers going for larger vehicles.

"We want to shape the profound transformation of the automotive industry from the forefront," said Daimler Chairman Manfred Bischoff in a statement.

"Further fundamental changes will be required for Daimler to remain successful," as the industry adjusts to cars running on electric motors and capable of driving themselves, he said.

We know that the EQ lineup will include two SUVs (one previewed by the Generation EQ concept from last year) and two sedans.

Source: Automotive News (Subscription Required)


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That should shut down Tesla's 4 model line up.  I bet an all electric SL turns up around 2020 for the new generation and that would be epic.

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Should be 4 SUVs- why bother wasting billions on sedans in a dead segment? Especially with the dismal sales overall of EVs?

It's amazing to watch these OEMs just about kill themselves, straining to chase what only they seem to think is the Next Great Thing, like self-driving cars. I just can't see that last one making major inroads within -say- 25 years. 'Start early, get a jump' one might say. I point to the luxury SUV market, started by Jeep in 1963. IOW, there's a 'time' for a market change, and you basically can't force that.

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I understand a small group will love and want self driving auto's. I think GM is doing it right focused on Lyft. For the rest, pass.

EV's are great. but will still take time to grow. Be interesting to see what MB really brings to market and when. I suspect things will get stretched out over time and take twice as long as they have stated.

I do love the quiet EV's. 

BOLT ev test drive today with the wife. Loved the regen paddle on the wheel and still have the break. Auto was fast, tight and a blast to drive.

Wife is thinking on it if she wants to buy it. Only thing she did not like about it was the black and white dash. She wisheses it was all black.

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17 hours ago, balthazar said:

Should be 4 SUVs- why bother wasting billions on sedans in a dead segment? 

Totally agree, I question needing more than 1 EV sedan at this point when the global market has moved to CUV / SUV's.

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17 hours ago, dfelt said:

Auto was fast, tight and a blast to drive.

Two of those are incorrect... "quick" because it only goes 93mph and almost 3600lbs isn't light for a compact class vehicle. It's actually heavy for its size.

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Mercedes I believe is the only luxury brand that sells more cars than they do SUVs other than Bentley or Rolls, so they still have a large sedan business.  C and E class can total over 700,000 a year globally.   

Making C, E, and S class sized EV sedans makes a lot of sense.  Especially if they use the EV platform then put the same basic interior of the gas car in there.

What Tesla lacks is cash, R&D budget and production facilities.  Mercedes has all that, they can build these electric cars in any of their existing factories.  And especially with electric cars, once you have a scalable platform you can build a ton of body styles rather easily because you don't have to work around the engine, drive shaft, exhaust, etc.

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14 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Mercedes I believe is the only luxury brand that sells more cars than they do SUVs other than Bentley or Rolls, so they still have a large sedan business.

Are you drunk? or are you literally talking about sales numbers? Either way, you look wrong.

BMW Cars: 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, i3, i8, Z4

BMW SUVs: X1, X3, X4, X5, X6

Also, the sales numbers I saw show Mercedes selling more "light trucks" than cars.

25,583 cars

26,190 "light trucks"

BMW cars: 23,271

BMW "light trucks": 17,309

Audi cars: 12,577

Audi "light trucks": 10,991

You're Wrong Link.

 

 

25 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

 Mercedes has all that, they can build these electric cars in any of their existing factories.

Then where will the build their current lineup at?

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20 hours ago, dfelt said:

BOLT ev test drive today with the wife. Loved the regen paddle on the wheel and still have the break. Auto was fast, tight and a blast to drive.

 

2 hours ago, ccap41 said:

Two of those are incorrect... "quick" because it only goes 93mph and almost 3600lbs isn't light for a compact class vehicle. It's actually heavy for its size.

FAST

TIGHT

Blast to drive

So FAST is true, you have 266lb ft of torque from zero MPH. It moves and in sport mode it seems to move even more. 

Test drive before you say it is not fast. I am used to speed and this jumps off the line when you hit the accelerator.

TIGHT TIGHT TIGHT, never said LIGHT or proper LITE. The BOLT is very much a drivers auto especially in SPORT mode. Very little body sway and it really holds in corners. Far better than many auto's especially those that they say are driver auto's.

Blast to drive. So quiet and yet moves so well. Loved the overly large dual LCD screens, customization and the Android Autoplay. SWEET way to have your auto.

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36 minutes ago, dfelt said:

TIGHT

If only I could read... :duh:

But still not fast. It's a quick car, quite quick. My Focus can go faster than 93mph but it likely(it won't) cannot get to 93mph as quickly.

Also, w/o even driving it, I can tell you it is not a "driver's car". It's an economical statement not a driver's car. It does its intended job very well but a high rise CUV-like vehicle is not a driver's car. Your EV bias is showing through thicker than cold peanut butter right there. "holds corners far better than most autos"(paraphrased). GTFO with that.

Edited by ccap41

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43 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

If only I could read... :duh:

But still not fast. It's a quick car, quite quick. My Focus can go faster than 93mph but it likely(it won't) cannot get to 93mph as quickly.

Also, w/o even driving it, I can tell you it is not a "driver's car". It's an economical statement not a driver's car. It does its intended job very well but a high rise CUV-like vehicle is not a driver's car. Your EV bias is showing through thicker than cold peanut butter right there. "holds corners far better than most autos"(paraphrased). GTFO with that.

Have you driven the Bolt to make such an assessment?

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10 hours ago, ccap41 said:

Are you drunk? or are you literally talking about sales numbers? Either way, you look wrong.

BMW Cars: 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, i3, i8, Z4

BMW SUVs: X1, X3, X4, X5, X6

Also, the sales numbers I saw show Mercedes selling more "light trucks" than cars.

25,583 cars

26,190 "light trucks"

BMW cars: 23,271

BMW "light trucks": 17,309

Audi cars: 12,577

Audi "light trucks": 10,991

You're Wrong Link.

 

 

Then where will the build their current lineup at?

In 2016 (in usa) Mercedes sold 158,600 SUV and 181,637 cars.   Cars still make up the majority of their business.  I didn't add all BMW and Audi's full year sales, but Audi puts a new SUV on sale every 6 months, and any car they make above A4 doesn't sell here.  

Regardless, C, E, and S class are all #1 seller in their segments, so it makes perfect sense to make electric cars of equal size, because they know how to sell sedans in those segments, and they want the Tesla Model S and Model 3 business.  People buy the Tesla because it was the new thing and nothing else is like it, when Mercedes sells Tesla performance with a Mercedes interior and build quality, goodnight Tesla.

And that is what this push is half about, half is about the European Eco-mentalist green movement and the other half is about taking out Tesla.

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7 hours ago, smk4565 said:

In 2016 (in usa) Mercedes sold ...

Regardless, ... S class are all #1 seller in their segments...

Not in the U.S.
S-class is old- should've been bolder; current generation is too close to last one and frankly it's become the 'boring' choice. Only moving at a rate of 12K/yr and the Model S is closer to 50K. Tesla owns that segment.

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1 hour ago, balthazar said:

Not in the U.S.
S-class is old- should've been bolder; current generation is too close to last one and frankly it's become the 'boring' choice. Only moving at a rate of 12K/yr and the Model S is closer to 50K. Tesla owns that segment.

Tesla Model S sold like 25k units in the USA last year, 50k world wide.  The Model S is also a mid size car, with a starting price $30,000 below the S-class before the $7500 tax credit.   But Mercedes recognizes the threat of Tesla for sure, that is why they are launching this 10 model assault aimed directly at Tesla.

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MSRPs run between $73K and $111K depending on power train- that's comparable to the segment (7-series starts @ $81K). S-class with the usual discounting starts @ $86K; Model S has no discounting. Model S certainly isn't in the e-class segment ($52K).
Yes- it's not as large as the others in the segment, closer to mid-size, but credit to Tesla for positioning their 'compact full-size' where it is. It has other dimensions that meet or exceed the other 'full-size' sedans (width, cargo capacity).

Just Q3 2016 numbers :

ss44.png

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18 hours ago, ccap41 said:

If only I could read... :duh:

But still not fast. It's a quick car, quite quick. My Focus can go faster than 93mph but it likely(it won't) cannot get to 93mph as quickly.

Also, w/o even driving it, I can tell you it is not a "driver's car". It's an economical statement not a driver's car. It does its intended job very well but a high rise CUV-like vehicle is not a driver's car. Your EV bias is showing through thicker than cold peanut butter right there. "holds corners far better than most autos"(paraphrased). GTFO with that.

The BOLT is not high like other CUV's, Was surprised by this and yet is does handle like a driving auto. Test drive it first before you say it is not. That also surprised me.

Cruze had 5.5 inches of ground clearance, BOLT is 6" Most CUV's are around 8-9 inches.

I challenge you to test drive the BOLT and then think about how it drives compared to cars and handles. For 99.9% of people, they will never go over 93 mph but getting up to speed fast and holding in turns, this little auto does  the engineers proud. Way better tuned chassis and suspension than I would have expected and at highway speed, it still can jump forward way better than allot of ICE auto's.

New respect for those that created and built the BOLT.

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It's roofline is ~5 inches higher than the compact class of cars. It's also low to the ground because of reduced aero drag. That ground clearance is likely due to a plastic piece sticking down 1-2 inches, like my Escape, Tahoes, and anything else that's "lifted".

It's lateral grip is far less than my Focus..which isn't anything special. 0.77g for the Bolt and 0.89-0.90g for the Focus(non-ST or RS).

MT's figure 8 numbers for acceleration, braking, and turning characteristics?

Ford Focus: 26.7 sec

Chevy Bolt: 27.6 sec

And that's with it being MUCH slower accelerating because the Bolt does a 1/4 mile in 14.9 vs a Focus DCT in 16.3.

It is hands-down quicker in a straight line but that's it. So if it handles worse than my Focus(with a decent margin, if it was much closer I could understand the "drive it before you knock it") then I don't really need to drive it to say that it is not a "driver's car".

Compare it to a Miata? The pinnacle of "driver's car".

1/4 mile: 14.5 sec

Lateral g's: 0.95

MT's figure 8: 25.4 sec

All of these numbers are from MT to get a consistent source as other companies get different numbers for the same vehicle(for example, C/D is always quicker).

It is good, very good... for a CUV.

Edited by ccap41
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5 hours ago, ccap41 said:

It's roofline is ~5 inches higher than the compact class of cars. It's also low to the ground because of reduced aero drag. That ground clearance is likely due to a plastic piece sticking down 1-2 inches, like my Escape, Tahoes, and anything else that's "lifted".

It's lateral grip is far less than my Focus..which isn't anything special. 0.77g for the Bolt and 0.89-0.90g for the Focus(non-ST or RS).

MT's figure 8 numbers for acceleration, braking, and turning characteristics?

Ford Focus: 26.7 sec

Chevy Bolt: 27.6 sec

And that's with it being MUCH slower accelerating because the Bolt does a 1/4 mile in 14.9 vs a Focus DCT in 16.3.

It is hands-down quicker in a straight line but that's it. So if it handles worse than my Focus(with a decent margin, if it was much closer I could understand the "drive it before you knock it") then I don't really need to drive it to say that it is not a "driver's car".

Compare it to a Miata? The pinnacle of "driver's car".

1/4 mile: 14.5 sec

Lateral g's: 0.95

MT's figure 8: 25.4 sec

All of these numbers are from MT to get a consistent source as other companies get different numbers for the same vehicle(for example, C/D is always quicker).

It is good, very good... for a CUV.

But you still haven't driven it while dfelt has so...

 

And I'm not stating this to be a jerk Btw (silly troll down vote aside) but "drivers car" is truly subjective here and you're kind of poopooing it without having ever driven one and then criticize dfelt about it even though he has driven it. To him, it may be a nice drivers car, making this a very subjective argument. 

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11 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

But you still haven't driven it while dfelt has so...

 

And I'm not stating this to be a jerk Btw (silly troll down vote aside) but "drivers car" is truly subjective here and you're kind of poopooing it without having ever driven one and then criticize dfelt about it even though he has driven it. To him, it may be a nice drivers car, making this a very subjective argument. 

In the phrase, " Driver's car " it even defines it as a "car" to begin with. While I will absolutely agree that I have not driven one and that they are quite quick aaaand that they do their intended job VERY, VERY well... there is no possible way a CUV is considered a "driver's car" to anybody who isn't just blindly in love with EVs. There's just no way. Yeeesssss the term is relative, to an extent. It will mean something different to each driver but 99% of car people will be able to agree that a Bolt is not a driver's car. It's barely a car..lol

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7 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

In the phrase, " Driver's car " it even defines it as a "car" to begin with. While I will absolutely agree that I have not driven one and that they are quite quick aaaand that they do their intended job VERY, VERY well... there is no possible way a CUV is considered a "driver's car" to anybody who isn't just blindly in love with EVs. There's just no way. Yeeesssss the term is relative, to an extent. It will mean something different to each driver but 99% of car people will be able to agree that a Bolt is not a driver's car. It's barely a car..lol

Again you are making an assumption even though you acknowledge the fact that you haven't actually driven one though. It's like someone telling you that the Escape gets "x" MPGs, citing only paper stats while never having driven one, while you claim you get "y" MPGs. Being that you actually own one, who am I more likely to believe? Paper stats or actual ownership experience?

 

Just offering a little perspective here on a subjective matter. 

Edited by surreal1272
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7 hours ago, ccap41 said:

In the phrase, " Driver's car " it even defines it as a "car" to begin with. While I will absolutely agree that I have not driven one and that they are quite quick aaaand that they do their intended job VERY, VERY well... there is no possible way a CUV is considered a "driver's car" to anybody who isn't just blindly in love with EVs. There's just no way. Yeeesssss the term is relative, to an extent. It will mean something different to each driver but 99% of car people will be able to agree that a Bolt is not a driver's car. It's barely a car..lol

I see the point your trying to make. Think of this point:

Every category of auto has their slush mobiles and their drivers auto.

You take the compact auto class and put together all the compact cars and some are slush body rolling nightmares and some are tight and handle very well.

Compact CUV's, some are fat pigs that wallow in driving and others are athletes that go the distance and leave you with the WOW, what an amazing performance.

The BOLT will surprise you especially if you put it in SPORT mode.

Take 5 years of a wife driving a Trailblazer SS AWD custom tuned and able to easily hold it's self at 157 mph as both her and I have driven it since we own it. 

Get in to the BOLT and her first impression was wow this is small compared to the TB, interior space was WOW, this is roomier than the TB.

In normal mode, all 266 lb ft of torque moves you very nicely from a stop. Step on it at 55 and the auto jumps forward.

Now do this in SPORT mode and everything is tight and even faster.

As stated Drivers auto is very subjective and I drive alot of CUV's and SUV's.

MT stated what they got and never mentioned that I saw sport mode and yet other reviews have all talked about the big difference between normal mode that is exciting to drive and sport mode that for some more laid back drivers would scare them.

The BOLT is a well designed EV, that is a drivers auto. I have this as a Yard stick to see how exciting FORD, FCA, MB, BMW, etc. can step up to and deliver.

BMW i3 is fast but a terrible drivers auto. Just trying to commute in it beats the hell out of you.

BOLT gets you moving, holds it own and still gives you comfort.

You really need to go TEST DRIVE one and then post your own impression.

I am excited to hear what BILL and DREW think when they can get one for a week test drive.

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    • By Drew Dowdell
      The Volkswagen brand is on track to introduce 34 models globally in 2020.  While some, like the ID.3, will be new to the portfolio, others are variants of familiar faces with many of those being electrified. Much stricter emissions rules come into effect in Europe starting January 1st and will force every company that sells on the continent to rethink their lineups.
      For Volkswagen, that means that most of their internal combustion powered vehicles will gain an available hybrid powertrain. Volkswagen says they will be introducing hybrid versions from the Golf to the Tiguan, to the Touareg. There will also be a number of cars coming that aren't hybrids or EVs. The next generation Golf is coming to Europe in 2020 with GTI, GTD, R, and Wagon variants to follow, though not all will make it to the U.S.. The Atlas will receive a refresh and the Atlas Cross Sport goes into production soon. Over in Europe, VW will be launching the T-Roc Cabriolet, the Arteon Shooting Brake, and Tiguan R.  Plus there will be other announcements coming for the brand.  With that in mind, these 34 vehicles are just for the VW brand and don't count what Audi, SEAT, Skoda, are up to. So there is likely to be even more in the pipeline.
      This whole push is to help get the Volkswagen brand to a 4 percent to 5 percent operating profit for 2020. 

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