Short term car shopping. Again.

[balthazar]

I'd sure like to see the so-called 'full-size' cars grow to more like 78", & the mid-size to grow to more like 74".

[A Horse With No Name]

52 minutes ago, balthazar said:

I'd sure like to see the so-called 'full-size' cars grow to more like 78", & the mid-size to grow to more like 74".

I have such fond memories of 50's, 60's and 70's American iron from my childhood.  I know vintage four doors are anathema to you, but I would love to own one...I miss those old cars every day I walk on this planet.  LOTS of good times in the 70's and 80's with these.

[balthazar]

They weren't all rounded up & crushed, you know.

I've owned probably 60/40 on 2-drs/4-drs, so I'm no stranger. I'd buy the 'right' 4-dr... but would MUCH rather have 2-drs. Was out in the shop this afternoon, shuffling some B-59 parts around & taking inventory towards steering reassembly.

[Robert Hall]

In 30+ years of driving, I've had 2 hatchbacks (1 3dr, 1 5dr), 4 cars w/ trunks (3 2drs, 1 4dr), and 3 SUVs (1 2dr, 2 4drs).    Other than the '69 Mustang I inherited, the oldest was an '84 and the newest a '14.   

My Dad usually always had a full size 4dr when I was growing up...I was too little to really remember much of the '69 and '73 Mercury Marquis 4dr hts, but I do remember the '76 and '79 Continental 4dr pillared hts and the '80s-90s Town Car sedans.  And the odd pickup here and there (like the '79 Power Wagon I learned to drive in), or the Vega, Chevette, and Escort in succession--'dinghies' to tow on the back of the ever-increasing in size RVs.   My Mom usually had a Cougar, Thunderbird or Mustang...they would get new cars every 3-4 years, but also had some oldies they kept like the '69 Mustang and '67-68 Cougars.

  I don't have much experience actually driving '60s-70s cars--I just find I can't get comfortable; I guess I'm too used to modern cars with all the amenities, adjustability and modern brakes.  Though I would like to have a '70s car as a summer toy if I had the garage space---a '69-70 Ford XL coupe or convertible or '71-72 LTD coupe or convertible...love the styling of them. 

Anyway, on the subject of car shopping, since I got my CPO Jeep last year, I'm out of the market for a while, unless I get the itch for something fun for my 50th birthday in a few years...a Miata or Challenger V8 would be a lot of fun, IMO..

Edited February 20, 2018 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[balthazar]

My list ~
(7) 2-dr hardtops : 59, 64, 64, 65, 66, 72, 73
(1) 2-dr sedan : 65
(4) 4-dr hardtops : 56, 59, 60, 65
(3) 4-dr sedans : 64, 64, 78
(1) convertible : 63
(1) wagon : 95
(5) trucks : 40, 46, 57, 94, 04
(0) SUVs

[smk4565]

5 hours ago, balthazar said:

I'd sure like to see the so-called 'full-size' cars grow to more like 78", & the mid-size to grow to more like 74".

Well, the Rolls-Royce Phantom is 79 inches wide, 227 inches long and 65 inches tall (1 inch less than an XT5 crossover).  And that is the short model, the LWB is 236 inches long, a full foot longer than a Suburban.    But unless you are buying one of those, then you  are out of luck for a "full size" car.

[balthazar]

No: who says one has to buy new?
If I were blowing money, I might get a '60 Brougham, the car that shamed Rolls when it was produced :
80.2" wide, 225" long, 130" WB, 56" tall.
 

[A Horse With No Name]

On 2/20/2018 at 5:25 PM, balthazar said:

They weren't all rounded up & crushed, you know.

 

 

Yet anyways....

Right now garage space is the biggest impediment.  If my son moves out and I could move my workshop to the basement, that would help issues immensely.

[A Horse With No Name]

It is a real commentary on what is built now that we are all jumping back decades to the cars we really want to own.

For a modern car...hmmm...what else for Balthazar? Why not get a Colorado extended cab 4wd?

#1. Good looking,

#2. good resale,

#3. good for the New Jersey winter,

#4. GM reliability and parts availability,

#5. could be used for your business in a pinch,

#6. could still haul your boys,

#7. would tow maybe an Airsteam Bambi or some other trailer if you and the Mrs. wanted to travel,

#8. could also tow a boat if you wanted a toy for the summer,

#9. could haul parts for the interminable B-59 project,

#10, similar driving dynamics to the jeep your wife likes, sits up high so the Mrs can see well in traffic,

#11. You liked your F150, this would be much more modern and much more fuel efficient, and drive much better than that.

#12. Masculine vehicle, think of how much fun you can have laughing at Blu when he buys that toy like Ecosport!

Besides, New Jersey must be getting a little boring at this point.  A truck would allow you to explore Montana and the great American west...you could use a change of pace.

Edited February 22, 2018 by A Horse With No Name

[balthazar]

OK, have some guidelines in this pursuit. Again, this is for my one son to have about 110 miles from me, in upstate NY.

• Would like to stay under $10K.
• Cruze-size or smaller. This one is from the wife, I don't see an issue going up one notch, esp since the size classes are so damned close to each other.

Have looked online at some local pre-owned stuff, nothing so far has blown my socks off.

[Drew Dowdell]

Cruze-size or smaller? 

I'm going to make some unconventional suggestions. 

Chrysler 200 with V6 and AWD. The 200 got an unfair rep based almost entirely on base model cars with the terrible 2.4 liter in a vehicle that was too heavy for its size.  The complaints with the 9-speed hunting are largely because the transmission was shifting looking for torque from the 2.4 that it would never find.... not an issue with the Pentastar.  Fuel efficiency for the V6 isn't terrible either as long a they're not racing it. 

You'd have to come up in price a little bit, but you can get OEM Certified used ones for $16k and 10k miles.  It's a little bit larger than a Cruze, a little bit smaller than a Malibu, has AWD for the upstate NY snow.  Being certified, it gets a 7 year / 100k mile warranty.

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=475729426&zip=08610&referrer=%2Fcars-for-sale%2Fsearchresults.xhtml%3Fzip%3D08610%26listingTypes%3Dcertified%26startYear%3D1981%26sortBy%3DmileageASC%26maxPrice%3D17000%26incremental%3Dall%26engineCodes%3D6CLDR%26firstRecord%3D0%26endYear%3D2019%26modelCodeList%3DCHRYS200%26makeCodeList%3DCHRY%26searchRadius%3D200&listingTypes=certified&startYear=1981&numRecords=25&maxPrice=17000&firstRecord=0&endYear=2019&modelCodeList=CHRYS200&makeCodeList=CHRY&searchRadius=200&makeCode1=CHRY&modelCode1=CHRYS200

My second one: First gen Chevy Volt - I found a certified 2014 with 21k miles at Fred Bean's in Doylestown for $15k.  Even if you never plug it in, 40mpg is not uncommon and they have just a bit more scoot than a 2.4 Malibu. If you did plug it in, her commute could be potentially gasoline free.  Not too bad for a $15k car and there are lots available near you for under that price.

They drive well, better than the same size Cruze. They have some interior quirks, but usually nothing deal breaking. The one thing that could be an issue is no center rear seating position, but I don't get the impression you'd be using the car in that fashion very often. Being a hatchback, with the rear seats folded down, they have large cargo capacity. 

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=467331259&zip=08610&referrer=%2Fcars-for-sale%2Fsearchresults.xhtml%3Fzip%3D08610%26listingTypes%3Dcertified%26startYear%3D1981%26sortBy%3DmileageASC%26maxPrice%3D15000%26incremental%3Dall%26firstRecord%3D0%26endYear%3D2019%26modelCodeList%3DVOLT%26makeCodeList%3DCHEV%26searchRadius%3D75&listingTypes=certified&startYear=1981&numRecords=25&maxPrice=15000&firstRecord=0&endYear=2019&modelCodeList=VOLT&makeCodeList=CHEV&searchRadius=75&makeCode1=CHEV&modelCode1=VOLT

If being certified isn't a concern, prices go down and options go up.  There are no big reliability concerns with the Volt though you may want to budget some Blizzaks for upstate NY. 

[smk4565]

I would imagine about half of 200's on the market began life as a rental car, and I don't trust FCA reliability, the Volt is a decent idea unless the battery needs replaced.

Buick Veranos are around the $10,000 mark that could be a good way to go.  2011 era Regals and LaCrosse are down there too, but those are bigger cars.  

A wild card idea is a Pontiac Vibe, I think 2009 was the last year, but they are under 10k and they have the Toyota Camry 2.4 liter engine so they will run forever.

[balthazar]

• Toyotas are too hugely unreliable- 50 million + reasons there not to buy.
• Veranos near me with really low miles are $15K, not $10.
• Fiats are crap, yes, but at least Chrysler/Dodge is above that level of wretchedness. Still, I'd probably pass on the 200.
• Will look into the Volt idea.

[David]

4 minutes ago, balthazar said:

• Toyotas are too hugely unreliable- 50 million + reasons there not to buy.
• Veranos near me with really low miles are $15K, not $10.
• Fiats are crap, yes, but at least Chrysler/Dodge is above that level of wretchedness. Still, I'd probably pass on the 200.
• Will look into the Volt idea.

Totally agree with all you stated, looked in my area and was surprised to find 2012-2015 Chevy Volts from $9,999 to $14,999 with 25K to 60K miles on them. 2016 and 2017 Volts with 5K to 15K miles were all in the 20-22K range. considerable discount from a new 2018 model. Surprised that a 14-16K drop from new to one that barely has a years worth of driving on them. Some good deals.

[smk4565]

43 minutes ago, balthazar said:

• Toyotas are too hugely unreliable- 50 million + reasons there not to buy.
• Veranos near me with really low miles are $15K, not $10.
• Fiats are crap, yes, but at least Chrysler/Dodge is above that level of wretchedness. Still, I'd probably pass on the 200.
• Will look into the Volt idea.

I came across a 2013 33k mile Verano for under $11,000.    Cheap ones are out there.  

Toyota unreliable?  They and Lexus have pretty much been the gold standard of reliability for the past 25 years.  I don’t care for their styling or lack of performance cars but I would put Toyota reliability over anyone.

[balthazar]

• They were reliable 10 years ago and earlier, but engineering quality has gone out the window since. You're unaware of the 50 million recalled since 2005? FIFTYMILLION. I believe Buick has ranked higher than toyota for many years now.
• Veranos I was check were  few years newer than 2013.

[ccap41]

The Volt is a fantastic idea. I probably would have bought one instead of my Focus if I had somewhere to charge it. 

[balthazar]

See, I've been ignorant of the Volt's circumstances. I knew it was somewhat unique among hybrids, but really never bothered to investigate how. Just read up on it.

I don't think a plug-in is going to be feasible for my son- I've never seen any charging parking slots in the small, scattered lots at his college- definitely not in the 2 lots right near the dorm he's in currently. Add to that the school doesn't guarantee housing for seniors, so next year is an unknown. Volt is out.

[David]

2 hours ago, balthazar said:

See, I've been ignorant of the Volt's circumstances. I knew it was somewhat unique among hybrids, but really never bothered to investigate how. Just read up on it.

I don't think a plug-in is going to be feasible for my son- I've never seen any charging parking slots in the small, scattered lots at his college- definitely not in the 2 lots right near the dorm he's in currently. Add to that the school doesn't guarantee housing for seniors, so next year is an unknown. Volt is out.

Yet the Volt does not have to be plugged in. You can still get outstanding Fuel Economy using the generator on board. I have multiple coworkers that never really bother to charge their Volt and yet love it.

[Drew Dowdell]

14 hours ago, balthazar said:

See, I've been ignorant of the Volt's circumstances. I knew it was somewhat unique among hybrids, but really never bothered to investigate how. Just read up on it.

I don't think a plug-in is going to be feasible for my son- I've never seen any charging parking slots in the small, scattered lots at his college- definitely not in the 2 lots right near the dorm he's in currently. Add to that the school doesn't guarantee housing for seniors, so next year is an unknown. Volt is out.

You never need to charge the Volt ever.  Just fill it with gas and it's a normal car.  I have a friend in Columbus who has one and doesn't have a charging station. He just drives it like it were a hybrid and if he happens to go to a shopping center that has a charging station, he plugs in because it is cheaper than gasoline, but not required.  As long as you can remember to put gas in it, you can weld the plug-in door shut and forget about it.

The reason I like the Volt is that it feels much more solid than a Cruze. It shouldn't since it is on the same platform, but it does.  It will get the best fuel economy you can get for the price range you're looking at.  Also, being a hatchback, it can haul stuff better than a Cruze can.   $10k - $15k for a solid safe hatchback that easily gets 40mpg without trying.   I think you should reconsider and look into it more.

Edit: One minor technical note.... the Volt is not a hybrid.  It is an EV with an onboard generator. 99.9% of driving in a Volt is done by the electric motor only.  There is one specific scenario where the gasoline engine and electric motor basically do a torque converter lock for efficiency reasons. (80+ mph, battery at or near depletion threshold). A Hybrid blends propulsion from two sources, the Volt does not. 

[ccap41]

11 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Edit: One minor technical note.... the Volt is not a hybrid.  It is an EV with an onboard generator. 99.9% of driving in a Volt is done by the electric motor only.  There is one specific scenario where the gasoline engine and electric motor basically do a torque converter lock for efficiency reasons. (80+ mph, battery at or near depletion threshold). A Hybrid blends propulsion from two sources, the Volt does not. 

Does the engine ever need to change revs then? Or does it just stay at a constant rpm when it is running? Oooorrrrr does it change revs when under high stress to charge faster to keep up with depletion rates(such as climbing a mountain)?

[ykX]

@Drew Dowdell it really is surprising Volt is not very popular.  I think it is perfect for the current infrastructure since it combines best features of both technologies.  

[ccap41]

25 minutes ago, ykX said:

@Drew Dowdell it really is surprising Volt is not very popular.  I think it is perfect for the current infrastructure since it combines best features of both technologies.  

It really is perfect for most any commuter. It was just expensive for its size when it came out(and still is for Gen2). Buuuuut the used market, with a ton of 10-15k ones available with very reasonable number of miles on them, makes them  super appealing. 

[Drew Dowdell]

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

Does the engine ever need to change revs then? Or does it just stay at a constant rpm when it is running? Oooorrrrr does it change revs when under high stress to charge faster to keep up with depletion rates(such as climbing a mountain)?

The engine revs do change, but entirely independent of the vehicular motion.  It seems to be programmed to have different RPM levels depending on the demand at a given moment.  If the battery is near depletion and you are pulling up a long hill at highway speed, the engine will run at a higher RPM than if it is just regenerating at a leisurely pace. 

Depletion in a Volt does not mean that the battery has gone to zero. GM left a reserve in there, so the engine will run even at 30% just to keep the battery well managed.  On the rolling hills here in PA, and being gentle on it, I've managed 75 mpg on a depleted battery. 

Edit: First Gen Volts also ask for premium fuel. This is largely because they operate at a higher than typical RPM when the engine is running and it is more efficient to run higher octane / higher compression.  The current generation Volt added direct injection and no longer has the premium fuel requirement...it operates just fine on regular. 

[smk4565]

Volt doesn’t make sense if you aren’t charging it, might as well get a Cruze or Verano at that point.  I still like a Subaru Legacy that can handle the NY winters with all wheel drive for this scenario.  2011 era Regals are pretty cheap too.  Maybe a Fusion.

[David]

2 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Volt doesn’t make sense if you aren’t charging it, might as well get a Cruze or Verano at that point.  I still like a Subaru Legacy that can handle the NY winters with all wheel drive for this scenario.  2011 era Regals are pretty cheap too.  Maybe a Fusion.

Yes it does make total sense, the quality of build in the VOLT over the Cruze is clearly noticeable. They are just as cheap so why not get a Volt where you can if you have access use the battery plug in and the rest of the time have a great very efficient and very quiet auto to drive. Drew hit the parts I missed in my response so we have a clear full valid reason to consider it.

[Drew Dowdell]

3 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Volt doesn’t make sense if you aren’t charging it, might as well get a Cruze or Verano at that point.  I still like a Subaru Legacy that can handle the NY winters with all wheel drive for this scenario.  2011 era Regals are pretty cheap too.  Maybe a Fusion.

The Volt may not make sense in that situation new, but for a $13k car with 30k miles it's really compelling. It's also built better than the Cruze. I know Balthazar had previously eliminated the Regal otherwise I would have suggested it. Veranos have the same cost/age/miles equation as the Volt, but don't get the fuel economy and are not a hatchback.  A Fusion could work, but I was trying to keep it within the size restriction Balthazar mentioned.

[2QuickZ's]

22 hours ago, balthazar said:

• Toyotas are too hugely unreliable- 50 million + reasons there not to buy.
• Veranos near me with really low miles are $15K, not $10.
• Fiats are crap, yes, but at least Chrysler/Dodge is above that level of wretchedness. Still, I'd probably pass on the 200.
• Will look into the Volt idea.

I've had my 200 for a year and a half and have put about 20k miles on it.  I bought it used and it was a service loaner at the dealership before I bought it so while it still looked and smelled new, I could hazard a guess it was not treated nicely by all who drove it.  In a year and a half it has been to the dealership exactly 0 times for anything other than maintenance.  The only real issue it has is that I get a hard 4-5 upshift but only at little to no throttle input.  Any throttle input above that and it shifts through the gears firmly but smoothly.  It is the only car I have had in the last 10+ years that has had absolutely no hesitation to downshift when you give it throttle, too.

I saw Drew recommended the Cruze.  As a past owner of a Cruze diesel, I can recommend that car as well.  Sounds odd to say since mine was bought back but mine had no driveability issues at all.  They just couldn't figure out why it kept setting check engine lights for the O2 sensor.  In spite of that experience, I would not hesitate to own another one.  The two most common loaner cars while the Cruze was at the dealership?  Chevy Volt and Buick Verano!  I enjoyed both of them as well but if I was going to get a Verano it would be to get the premium trim with the 2.0T.  If I wasn't getting the 2.0T, I would probably just save the money and get a Cruze.

[2QuickZ's]

What about Chevrolet Sonics?  You can pick sedan or hatch and the price is where you are looking.

2015 Sonic RS - $10,944

2016 Sonic LTZ - $10,921

[smk4565]

I think we can end this right now with a trip to Ohio.

Auto Trader C300

[balthazar]

My God; the depreciation.
It's out of warranty; it might as well be made out of paper-mache.

[Drew Dowdell]

17 minutes ago, balthazar said:

My God; the depreciation.
It's out of warranty; it might as well be made out of paper-mache.

And the $175 oil changes.

[David]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

I think we can end this right now with a trip to Ohio.

Auto Trader C300

I would not wish that overrated Ken Doll machine on anyone even my enemies.

[smk4565]

12 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

And the $175 oil changes.

I pay like $140 for oil changes at the dealer (I'd have to dig up my last bill to get the exact amount) and the V8 takes 9.5 quarts, the V6 isn't as much.  And it lasts 13,000 miles, although I never go over 10,000.

[smk4565]

12 hours ago, balthazar said:

My God; the depreciation.
It's out of warranty; it might as well be made out of paper-mache.

Right so the depreciation is over, and we were just talking about $40,000 Volts from 2012 that are now $11,000, this is the same thing.  And every pre 2013 car is out of warranty now.   This checks a lot of boxes, fits the size and price range, and has AWD for the New York winters and is better built and more solid feeling than a Cruze.

[balthazar]

Even accounting for the miles you drive between changes, you still pay 4X what I do @ 6000 miles in the Jeep.
I change my own oil in the Duramax (10 quarts).
- - - - -
• Not every brand implodes out of warranty like the Germans do, tho.
• Where are you getting the '2013' year mandate from?

Edited March 1, 2018 by balthazar

[smk4565]

You could always buy 8 quarts of Mobile One at Autozone and change the oil, it isn’t being a Mercedes that makes the oil change expensive it is the $8 or $9 per quart Mobile One.

i thought we were looking at around $10,000 and the Volt, Cruze, Verano andRegal of the 2011-2013 era came up.  

[David]

I have never paid $8-9 dollars for a quart of Mobil one. The most expensive I Pay is $4.50 per Mobil 1 Quart in the 6 pack at Costco.

$26.99 for the 6 pack which is what my TT SS AWD takes and then $10 for the Frame Synthetic Oil Filter with tax $40 for a 10K mile oil change. I take this over a $200 oil change at the dealership.

[balthazar]

• Google shopping shows 5 qrts of Mobil 1 for $25 at 50 locations. It's $5 qrt, but the dealer doubles the price for MB owners so they feel 'more special'.

• Yes- would like to keep it under $10K. Just saying that there is no mandate to stay at 2013MY other than price. And I realize that $10K really doesn't buy all that great of a vehicle. I tried 2 people I know who were talking about selling their (known service history) cars and both said they weren't ready right now. Going to physically shop around this weekend.
 

[ccap41]

1 hour ago, dfelt said:

I have never paid $8-9 dollars for a quart of Mobil one. The most expensive I Pay is $4.50 per Mobil 1 Quart in the 6 pack at Costco.

$26.99 for the 6 pack which is what my TT SS AWD takes and then $10 for the Frame Synthetic Oil Filter with tax $40 for a 10K mile oil change. I take this over a $200 oil change at the dealership.

I did a little searching and talking to people on bobistheoilguy.com and Fram has a shop version of that same filter but it has a different label and doesn't have the grippy stuff. I bought a case of 6 on eBay for $33 with free shipping a handful of months ago bringing the per unit cost down to $5.50 for the same $9 Fram Ultra filter. I knew I'd eventually use them so I didn't mind buying a case of 6. They don't go bad. 

For your TBSS it's a FPS3506. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fram-Pro-Synthetic-FPS6607-Oil-Filter-CASE-6-SIX-fits-XG6607-M1-108-10-2876/173039477548?epid=193030830&hash=item2849f4e32c:g:MtcAAOSwT6pVvns9&vxp=mtr

That one isn't as cheap but there are a bunch of different listings for the FPS3506. Even at that link it brings them down to $7/filter. Not an incredible savings but it's better than nothing. 

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, dfelt said:

I have never paid $8-9 dollars for a quart of Mobil one. The most expensive I Pay is $4.50 per Mobil 1 Quart in the 6 pack at Costco.

$26.99 for the 6 pack which is what my TT SS AWD takes and then $10 for the Frame Synthetic Oil Filter with tax $40 for a 10K mile oil change. I take this over a $200 oil change at the dealership.

My last oil change might have been $127, I would have to look, but I don't have Costco, but I would still need to buy 10 quarts and a 5 Quart jug is $38.99 at Auto Zone (Advance is $37.99 but has it $10 off right now), so I need 2 of those and a Mobile 1 filter for $19.99,then tax and disposal fees, and I am over $100.  If the dealer is $130 I think that is worth paying them.

[David]

2 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

My last oil change might have been $127, I would have to look, but I don't have Costco, but I would still need to buy 10 quarts and a 5 Quart jug is $38.99 at Auto Zone (Advance is $37.99 but has it $10 off right now), so I need 2 of those and a Mobile 1 filter for $19.99,then tax and disposal fees, and I am over $100.  If the dealer is $130 I think that is worth paying them.

Agree when you are within $20-30 dollars of having a dealer do it versus your time and disposal, then I would do the Dealer. Here in washington state, the auto part stores have to take all auto liquids back for proper disposal. As such, no added cost and since I already have my jug for holding oil, that was a one time cost and so $100 versus $40 and the little time it takes me, right now home oil change wins.

But I get the valid point you make.

[ccap41]

You can get M1 or Pennzoil in either 5w-40 or 0w-40(what Mercedes at least used to use) for $25-27 at Walmart per5qt jug. 

When I had my C350 and it took 8.5qts and the same situation as yours I was absolutely not spending over $100 to change my own oil. 

$25 X 2 = $50

+ $20 filter(which is on the highest end of the spectrum but I'll go with it here)

=$70 tops. 

Any auto place I've ever bought anything from, and Walmart, take used oil for free. 

[balthazar]

If I have to make an appointment, drive to the dealer, wait, wait while it's changed, drive home, I might as well walk outside and do it myself & save a bunch of time.
I bought a case of 12 oil filters when my son worked at an auto parts place, they are normally 9-10 ea but I think I got them for between $3-4. The oil is pricey tho- about $29/gal, or $7.25/qrt... so oil changes for me (10 qrts) costs me about $76. Town collects used oil for free. I save time over going to dealer (which I've never done for my truck) - esp since I don't have to jack my truck up to change the oil.

[daves87rs]

On 2/28/2018 at 8:30 PM, Drew Dowdell said:

The Volt may not make sense in that situation new, but for a $13k car with 30k miles it's really compelling. It's also built better than the Cruze. I know Balthazar had previously eliminated the Regal otherwise I would have suggested it. Veranos have the same cost/age/miles equation as the Volt, but don't get the fuel economy and are not a hatchback.  A Fusion could work, but I was trying to keep it within the size restriction Balthazar mentioned.

 

I like the idea of this too. I already have 220 in my garage, so I could plug it in.

Plus, I thought about adding solar panels so the sun would charge the Volt for us........

[smk4565]

So back to the car choices, if not the highly desirable C300 sport package that I found, the choices are:

Chrysler 200

2011ish Chevy Volt

2013is Buick Verano

2015ish Chevy Sonic

What else?

[balthazar]

Going to look around tomorrow / still feeling bewildered.

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

Going to look around tomorrow / still feeling bewildered.

What about SUVs?   Or are we sticking with sedans due to the lower cost and higher mpg.  And what about something like a Ford Mustang, or is RWD coupe a no go?

[smk4565]

Perhaps a 2012 CTS luxury package AWD, comes in at $11,000

CTS

[Robert Hall]

41 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

What about SUVs?   Or are we sticking with sedans due to the lower cost and higher mpg.  And what about something like a Ford Mustang, or is RWD coupe a no go?

Insurance is usually high for Mustangs and young drivers... for cheap reliable used cars the standard answer for most people are Civic, Accord, Corolla or Camry...all built in the US though import brands, but those sound like no-gos here...