Short term car shopping. Again.

[balthazar]

• We bought our '11 Jeep Liberty in Feb of 2016, with 53K miles. Not a single problem to date, not a fancy vehicle, but everyone here likes driving it fine. Now has 80K. Going to keep it, my one son is it's regular driver.

• Wife's 2009 Malibu LT was bought new. Between GM card cash, sale discount (1500), and a Cash for Clunker trade (4600), the $25K sticker came down to the low $17K's. It's been a very good little sedan, a few very minor things plus the normal maintenance. Currently has 127K on it. Other than a few dings and some curb rash on the pass-side alloys, it's in good physical shape.

Mechanically it could use front struts. On to this morning... checked the oil and noticed a touch of pale tan goopy residue on the dip'cable' & it's end. Uh-oh: water in the oil. So it's planned 4-hr drive to upstate NY today was cancelled and the Jeep filled in. I topped off the oil (it's also losing oil between changes) and only ran it less than a half mile tonight to grab a pizza.

Going to run it around tomm some, and check the oil & coolant again.

I like to keep her cars under 100-110K, but this car is obviously over that. I looked at the KBB trade-in value, a depressing $2200. If it needs a head gasket, I can only imagine that would be at least $1500. I don't like the metrics on putting $1500 into a $2500 vehicle...

• I still need to get another vehicle for my other son (who's about 110 miles away at school) for May. Had a lead on a minty '08 Passat - even tho all I've read about VWs say 'run' - the hope was it would be an extremely good deal thru a friend, but just heard back from him this week; he's keeping the car for now.

•• Bottom line, I need to obtain 2 vehicles; 1 immediately and one in the next few months. Meanwhile my 14-year old truck keeps plugging along with 177K.
As before, when we ended up with the Jeep, I have little in the way of parameters. Son 2's car is going to be a used, cheapy, but reliability & service near him is paramount. My wife really liked driving the Jeep before it morphed into Son 1's regular whip, so she'd be fine with a CUV or a sedan.

Just edumacating ouselves on leasing, since that's not something we've done before.

Anyway, feel free to voice some opinions, either general or specific.

Edited February 10, 2018 by balthazar

[ykX]

Chevy has up to $3k cash allowance on Cruze, Malibu (Malibu actually up to $3.5k).  Their crossovers have also deals but not as good,

[A Horse With No Name]

Not sure what to tell you.  Were I to replace the Malibu it would be something Jeep-other than Cadillac, they are the only domestic car maker building anything I really want to own.

I say take the wife to the Jeep dealership, find out what she likes, and drive it home.

For your other vehicle, figure out what you want to spend and then find a Buick that is well maintained in that price range-Buick builds fantastic cars, with epic depreciation.

[ocnblu]

May I interest you in a 2018 Ford Ecosport SES in Canyon Ridge?  I think it has a 300 cu in inline 6 with a granny low 4 speed.

Edited February 13, 2018 by ocnblu

[balthazar]

I'll check one out, but my initial reaction is one of repulsion.

[ocnblu]

This... coming from a guy who admitted a perverse attraction to a FIAT MULTIPLA! 

[A Horse With No Name]

15 hours ago, balthazar said:

I'll check one out, but my initial reaction is one of repulsion.

I knew I liked you for a reason.

16 hours ago, ocnblu said:

May I interest you in a 2018 Ford Ecosport SES in Canyon Ridge?  I think it has a 300 cu in inline 6 with a granny low 4 speed.

One might consider being bitten by a rabid dog...at lest shots will fix that.  The vehicle pictured is 60 months of Pain, payments and embarrassment.

[ccap41]

What kind of budget are we looking at? It's tough to suggest anything without at least a ballpark price range. 

[A Horse With No Name]

2 hours ago, ccap41 said:

What kind of budget are we looking at? It's tough to suggest anything without at least a ballpark price range. 

Agreed.  although if depreciation is an issue...with the boys out of the house....get an Ecoboost Mustang.  Reliable, fantastic fuel economy, good looks, good resale value, nice comfortable interior, good color choice, several different interior packages, lots of CPO cars available if price is an issue.

[balthazar]

• Budget is a good question, of course. I don't know the budget yet.

• In my defense, the Multipla knows it's an uncool ostrich egg, the Ecosport thinks it's 'thporty' and good-looking.

• Funny, was just talking with the wife the other day, suggesting she get another Mustang- she really liked the one she had before. It's possible.

 

[ocnblu]

Well, Mike Tyson thinks it's thporty.

[A Horse With No Name]

3 hours ago, ocnblu said:

Well, Mike Tyson thinks it's thporty.

He has an excuse as he has spent his adult career being paid to suffer violence induced brain injury. His choice in vehicles is excellent evidence for a workers comp claim.

[daves87rs]

Ah, I see I not the only one thinking cars right now...

If you're thinking CUV, an Escape might not be a bad choice. Since I get the Ford discount (and last automaker to offer a decent discount as well), I have been looking at a 2018 Escape S (base model) No touch screen, no turbo (you get the 2.5)

Looks like again they are going to throw another 4k discount on it in the spring, and since it starts at 23k, you could be looking at 18-19k for a pretty solid and popular trucklet... (thinking with employee discount it might be 17ish-hard to say no to)

 

Both the Malibu and Fusion have really good lease deals, under 230 a month. Slightly used Fusions (14-16) can be found for around 12-14 grand with under 40k miles....quick and easy to pay off....

If anyone can drive a stick, Used Focuses are dirt cheap right now.....

[balthazar]

My buddy is also looking to replace his 3rd vehicle, I believe it's an '02 mazda tribute. Bad exhaust manifold leak, back-side of motor, with 176K it's not worth the investment to repair, so once it's due for inspection, he's getting rid of it. He's narrowed his choices to the mazda CX3 and the Escape. They have a honda CR-V and no one in their family of 4 likes driving it & visibility is terrible. Also looked at the RAV4 and he slammed the door on it when he saw how horrible & cheap the interior is.

[smk4565]

A 120k mile GM car burning oil?  There is a shocker.  Although at least with a GM car you can buy oil buy the quart, if you own an Audi with over 100k miles, you gotta buy the whole case.

So this is easy, for a sedan  you look at the big 3 of depreciation, the Hyundai Genesis, Buick LaCrosse and Lincoln MKZ, all 3 of which you can pick up a 2014 model for in the $14-17k range. 

I would avoid a Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep, those with Fiat are the 4 pillars of unreliability as the mileage climbs.  

For a cheap car, under $8k, there are plenty of Saturn Vue, Pontiac G6 type bankruptcy era GM cars out there, 4-5 year old Cruze and Focus are into the $8k range.

[balthazar]

My 178K mile GM doesn't lose any oil.

[David]

My 300K plus suburban does not use oil. I think it is how one does the maintenance or not. Seems those that think they do not have to do maintenance seem to have all the issue in the world.

[smk4565]

I think every Northstar derived engine burns oil faster than they burn gasoline once they get over 100k miles.

[A Horse With No Name]

19 hours ago, smk4565 said:

I think every Northstar derived engine burns oil faster than they burn gasoline once they get over 100k miles.

Trolling.  Lots of 20 year old GM products doing just fine.  Got my oil changed in my vee dub at the Audi dealership in Asheville when I was visiting my mother...crowded and they were moving metal unlike the dealership next door.

Lots of good car makers in addition to Benz.

21 hours ago, balthazar said:

My buddy is also looking to replace his 3rd vehicle, I believe it's an '02 mazda tribute. Bad exhaust manifold leak, back-side of motor, with 176K it's not worth the investment to repair, so once it's due for inspection, he's getting rid of it. He's narrowed his choices to the mazda CX3 and the Escape. They have a honda CR-V and no one in their family of 4 likes driving it & visibility is terrible. Also looked at the RAV4 and he slammed the door on it when he saw how horrible & cheap the interior is.

Escape is actually a Decent looking vehicle.  Seems like it would be a good choice. 

[A Horse With No Name]

On 2/12/2018 at 9:44 PM, balthazar said:

I'll check one out, but my initial reaction is one of repulsion.

Likely your test drive should be done after dark so no one sees you driving it.

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Trolling.  Lots of 20 year old GM products doing just fine.  Got my oil changed in my vee dub at the Audi dealership in Asheville when I was visiting my mother...crowded and they were moving metal unlike the dealership next door.

Lots of good car makers in addition to Benz.

Escape is actually a Decent looking vehicle.  Seems like it would be a good choice. 

Not trolling, I had a 10 year old GM Northstar derived engine that burned oil, and my friend had the same car and it burned oil.  Although Audi 2.0T engines burn it way faster.

And I happen to think Mazda and Subaru build a pretty good vehicle, and the Mazda 6 or Legacy new or used would be be good options here.  And as I mentioned used Hyundai Genesis are cheap and pretty nice, the Optima I think is pretty good and not too expensive either.  The 2018 Accord is nice, but that would be higher than the budget I think for this case.

[balthazar]

• I've not owned a Northstar/ Shortstar, but all the numerous other GM engines have all been excellent- no issues. Had a 3.1L 6 go to 147K- didn't burn/lose oil.

• Subaru has had some major issues in recent years, but I've not heard of issues for Mazda. Toyota, I wouldn't take one for free if I had to keep it- terrible quality. Not a fan of Japanese brands anyway.

• Haven't figured out the budget yet, like I stated above. It's not a matter of affordability, but rather simply how much we'd be willing to spend.

[smk4565]

I was at the auto show today, I thought the 2018 Accord was nice, the interior is actually better designed and better laid out than the Acura’s.  Acuras I think are a huge waste of money, they are basically the same as a Honda for $15k more.  

I am not saying a Subaru is nicer than others in that price range but they have AWD, are good on safety, pretty good on gas, so they make a good used car for a college kid, sort of the same way a used Volvo is a good safe used car.  

I think Mazda has nice interiors and build quality for their price.  I actually like the Impala for a full size sedan, Malibu and Fusion I am not impressed with.  VW’s are blah and boring, I feel like there is a lot of low rent plastic in every VW also.

[balthazar]

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

Not a fan of Japanese brands.

 

[A Horse With No Name]

9 hours ago, balthazar said:

 

I am a fan of a few select brands from Europe America and Asia. Appreciate your sentiment.

[David]

I hate and love everything, just the nature of the beast and what fits me. End result, German brands are just too small and tight like asian brands and sadly many american brands are also just too small and tight leaving me with US Full size Pickups and SUVs.

I hope that when they release the mid size EV CUVs that they truly capture the interior space of full size auto's from the 70's or 60's.

[balthazar]

^ Dream on- will never happen.
I'm only average-size, so legroom isn't a high priority for me. My beef is width- I cut most of my teeth on real full-size autos, with 120"+ wheelbases and 80" widths, there's real luxury in space, IMO. You'll never see -for example- my '59's 66" hip room ever again.

[David]

28 minutes ago, balthazar said:

^ Dream on- will never happen.
I'm only average-size, so legroom isn't a high priority for me. My beef is width- I cut most of my teeth on real full-size autos, with 120"+ wheelbases and 80" widths, there's real luxury in space, IMO. You'll never see -for example- my '59's 66" hip room ever again.

I can Dream  

[balthazar]

B-59 : 66" hip room (no console)
Escalade: 60" hip room (fat console, which means nothing close to 60", but more like 48". But that would look REALLY BAD in the specs, so -poof!- invisible console!)

[Robert Hall]

Such is reality.  Can't imagine bench seats will ever make a comeback.    I remember the long, low and wide 70s full size cars from childhood, but that was over 40 years ago..

[balthazar]

I'm still around them regularly- between my cars and my buddy's continually revolving flips of '50s-60s cars. Took a short drive in this last week (tho it has buckets/ no console) :

 

I'd prefer a bench seat, generally speaking, but I like consoles, too (I have a fold-down center armrest in the 2500HD; it's always down).  Just give measurements of actual HIP ROOM, not "armrest-to-armrest" dimension.  One's hips cannot share the same dimensional space the console does.

Edited February 19, 2018 by balthazar

[David]

Growing up in this meant you always had plenty of room. Loved the rear facing 3rd row bench seat. That was my domain. Yup had to wait to be let out, but my space and plenty of it.  

Remember when we went from the 75 above to the 78 below. both still lovely station wagons.

[Robert Hall]

I like those big wagons...because my siblings were older and out of the house by the time I was 5, my folks never had a wagon when I was kid...family cars were a mix of '70s Continentals then '80s Town Cars that my Dad usually drove, and '70s-80s Cougars, Thunderbirds and Mustangs which my Mom usually drove.   And a '69 Mustang and '67-68 Cougars for summer fun cars, and RVs.  

30-40 years ago, fels like a really long time ago...I remember those big Lincolns just quietly floated down the road...all gone now...

Edited February 19, 2018 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[ocnblu]

On the way home from work tonight I was thinking how much I've grown to really like my Compass.  Even on winter gas I'm getting 28 MPG.  It is quiet and comfortable for someone my size.  It rides well and it is pretty much a perfect compromise on exterior size/interior room and maneuverability.  I recommend the Jeep Compass.  It is worlds better than the old one.

[Robert Hall]

10 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

On the way home from work tonight I was thinking how much I've grown to really like my Compass.  Even on winter gas I'm getting 28 MPG.  It is quiet and comfortable for someone my size.  It rides well and it is pretty much a perfect compromise on exterior size/interior room and maneuverability.  I recommend the Jeep Compass.  It is worlds better than the old one.

I've been recommending my sister check out the Compass or Cherokee...she's been talking about wanting something larger than her Trax (2015, 13k miles). 

[smk4565]

6 hours ago, balthazar said:

^ Dream on- will never happen.
I'm only average-size, so legroom isn't a high priority for me. My beef is width- I cut most of my teeth on real full-size autos, with 120"+ wheelbases and 80" widths, there's real luxury in space, IMO. You'll never see -for example- my '59's 66" hip room ever again.

So you want an S-class.

What about a Cadillac DTS, although that would be going to like a 2011 car, those are big and have to be dirt cheap now, I would imagine XTS's are cheap and Impalas are roomy, although I think the Lacrosse isn't because of the center console design.

[balthazar]

Your confusing my preferences at large with this car shopping debacle.  S-class is only 74" wide & 207" long - that's mid-size in my book.  The screaming depreciation as the warranty end comes due makes them a buy for someone, but not me.

[Robert Hall]

25 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Your confusing my preferences at large with this car shopping debacle.  S-class is only 74" wide & 207" long - that's mid-size in my book.  The screaming depreciation as the warranty end comes due makes them a buy for someone, but not me.

It's midsize only if you are thinking mid-60s to mid 70s.  Midsize today is about 190-195 inches.  Your book is 40 years out of date, no car shopper in 2018 thinks of the S-class as midsize, that's madness! 

Edited February 20, 2018 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[2QuickZ's]

If you are in the market for a good deal on a used sedan:  I know people like to bag on them a lot but the '15-17 200's are good cars, especially in V6 guise.  And they are available in AWD if you need it.  Depreciation has been pretty brutal so there are good deals to be had.  My guess is you could pick up AWD 200S or 200C with under 30K miles and reasonably loaded for 15K.  Heck, I bought my 2015 200S V6 FWD a year and a half ago with 5500 miles for $17,600 and it has heated steering wheel, ventilated seats and Nav (~$31K sticker).  I could have had a similar AWD car for maybe $1,000 - $1,500 more.  I personally would have preferred a 200C because I like the open pore wood trim in them better but I'm still very happy with what I got.

I live in SE Michigan and I don't know how well the deals we get translate across the country since just about everybody around here is eligible for one or more of the employee discounts (at one point in time I could have gotten it on any of the Big 3 brands), but Equinox's and Malibu's lease pretty cheaply. They have been offering cheap leases on Jeep Compasses.  You do see a ton of Escapes around here as well.  If you like big RWD, both the 300 and Charger lease pretty cheaply as well, including the AWD versions.  If you want to buy, they are giving HUGE discounts on '17 LaCrosse's.

[ocnblu]

2 hours ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

I've been recommending my sister check out the Compass or Cherokee...she's been talking about wanting something larger than her Trax (2015, 13k miles). 

Yeah, I posted about the Ecosport to needle our ancient friend Balthy.  Trax/Encore/Ecosport are really too small to be effective utility vehicles, imo.  They are fine strictly for commuting... and when one looks at the price, an Escape or Equinox can be had for the same price... or LESS than their respective smaller sibling.  Encore went down in price with the MCE, so it is still a bargain compared to Envision.

 

BTW DO NOT BUY an Envision.  We had one in our shop for over two months because we could not get parts due to a deer hit.  Everything was coming through GM of Canada... and there is no communication link between GM USA and GM Canada for parts tracking.  Globalization SUCKS.

[balthazar]

1 hour ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

It's midsize only if you are thinking mid-60s to mid 70s.  Midsize today is about 190-195 inches.  Your book is 40 years out of date, no car shopper in 2018 thinks of the S-class as midsize, that's madness! 

Pffft- go ahead and let the EPA decide how you interpret vehicles, so you can be "modern".  Dimensions don't lie, labels can though.

I drive a modern, full-size vehicle with 3" more hip room and 6 " more shoulder room than an S-class.  Does the EPA have a "king-size" label?

[Robert Hall]

Trucks have their own size categories.  Though trucks have been getting larger over the last 40 years rather than downsizing. 

Edited February 20, 2018 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[ocnblu]

1 minute ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

Trucks have their own size categories.  

So does this.

[balthazar]

I believe there's a very real link to the slight upsize in truck dimensions and the huge uptick in trucks sales over the last few decades- they've taken the buyers who preferred full-size cars (in addition to other demographics of buyers), espeically as they've become nicer & more refined.

As big as my truck's interior is, it's still not as wide or has as much legroom as my '59, tho it of course has scads more headroom.

[ocnblu]

Agreed.  There is nowhere else to go for people who prefer something large and in charge.

[Robert Hall]

8 hours ago, balthazar said:

I believe there's a very real link to the slight upsize in truck dimensions and the huge uptick in trucks sales over the last few decades- they've taken the buyers who preferred full-size cars (in addition to other demographics of buyers), espeically as they've become nicer & more refined.   

Considering the popularity of loaded 4dr pickups today, there is definitely some truth to that...considering 40 years ago, 4dr pickups were pretty much only heavy duty work trucks w/ bare bones vinyl seat interiors..

[David]

Clearly people are trading in the old standard:

For the New Standard:

[ccap41]

11 hours ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

Trucks have their own size categories.  Though trucks have been getting larger over the last 40 years rather than downsizing. 

Half tons are maxed out based on width now though, without breaking the 80" width and needing the marker lights like the wider HD/SDs. 

[balthazar]

80" is excellent- plenty wide. No cars are close to that today- s-class is only 74".
B-59 is 81" (no mirrors- all body).

[ccap41]

Cars aren't but trucks are.