Alternative Fuels & Propulsion RANDOM

[David]

1 minute ago, Robert Hall said:

^ Since they aren't in production, it means nothing though.

Exciting future product if they do make it to production.

[ccap41]

That's one gaudy Hyperion XP-1.

I certainly do not think the Lucid looks better but it'll probably be a better vehicle, as it should because it's like 10 years newer. 

[balthazar]

IMO the Tesla Model S (and to a lesser extent- the 3) are good/fine looking sedans, they're just dated at this point.
Problem as I see it for Tesla is they have no design direction; it's been nine years of a 'one-trick pony', stylistically.

[oldshurst442]

The Lucid sedan, is a nice, almost sexy design. 

The Tesla Model S was a sexy design, like Balthy said, 9 years ago.

So was the Karma. 9 years ago.  I look at the Karma now and all I sees is a decades old car.  Still sexy. But not fresh.  

The Model S is a good looking car to this day. But it needs a NEW design.  The Lucid it seems,  is that all new, sexy electric car design that is needed to propel EV sedans into 2020 and beyond.  

The Porsche EV too, is a very very sleek and awesome design.  

It seems that Lucid, with those solid state batteries, will propel EV vehicles forward and commence a battery tech war. Tesla will reveal theirs as well.  Eventually GM and Porsche and VW and the rest.

But Tesla needs to address their now, stale designs.    

 

 

 

[David]

2 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

The Lucid sedan, is a nice, almost sexy design. 

The Tesla Model S was a sexy design, like Balthy said, 9 years ago.

So was the Karma. 9 years ago.  I look at the Karma now and all I sees is a decades old car.  Still sexy. But not fresh.  

The Model S is a good looking car to this day. But it needs a NEW design.  The Lucid it seems,  is that all new, sexy electric car design that is needed to propel EV sedans into 2020 and beyond.  

The Porsche EV too, is a very very sleek and awesome design.  

It seems that Lucid, with those solid state batteries, will propel EV vehicles forward and commence a battery tech war. Tesla will reveal theirs as well.  Eventually GM and Porsche and VW and the rest.

But Tesla needs to address their now, stale designs.    

Totally agree with everything you said. I think we are going to see a Battery war as the next tech war for auto's.

I like the look of the Lucid over the Tesla big time. Hyperion XP-1 is futuristic looking, but I question if it really will ever get past being a 1 trick pony for a very select few billionaires. 

[oldshurst442]

7 hours ago, ccap41 said:

That's one gaudy Hyperion XP-1.

I certainly do not think the Lucid looks better but it'll probably be a better vehicle, as it should because it's like 10 years newer. 

The Hyperion XP-1 is gaudy.  But not more than any other hypercar from other car makers.

It looks like a spaceship.  But more than that, it looks like a more modern, more sleeker, yet more coked up (yeah...the drug one snorts through one's nose)  version of a Veyron/Chiron.

 

 

Yes...the Chiron, pictured above, is slightly less gaudi, but that is like saying  Motley Crew wore slightly  less makeup than KISS.   Or that Jon Bon Jovi used less hairspray than Tina Turner in their 1980s heyday... 

Dont get me wrong...that is but one reason why I dont personally like hypercars myself. Hypercars since the late 1990s to today just aim to be gaudi in design.  For whatever reason. 

  I limit myself to Corvettes, Vipers and the less hyper-ish Ferrari models.  The ones more in line that compete with Vettes and 911s.  (And the Superfast...that car to me is like a 427 1969 Corvette ZL-1)  I mean, Corvettes and Vipers are the very definition of ostentatious design and modern Ferraris have abandoned their classical good looks for that gaudiness...but...it is what it is. 

(just shootin' the syte with ya....bouncing off ideas)    

 

 

 

Edited August 13, 2020 by oldshurst442

[Robert Hall]

The market is flooded with supercars and hypercars..about the only one I find slightly interesting is Gordon Murray's new one, it's a rather restrained design w/ a minimalist interior w/ center seat and manual transmission, ala his McLaren F-1 25 years ago..but it's another 100-unit, $3 mil garage queen/future museum piece.

 

[balthazar]

'supercars' are no different than CUVs.  A 100 variants, all done to the same formula.

Want to stand out? Build / have something unique built, or go offbeat vintage.

Edited August 14, 2020 by balthazar

[ccap41]

26 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

The Hyperion XP-1 is gaudy.  But not more than any other hypercar from other car makers.

It looks like a spaceship.  But more than that, it looks like a more modern, more sleeker, yet more coked up (yeah...the drug one snorts through one's nose)  version of a Veyron/Chiron.

 

 

Yes...the Chiron, pictured above, is slightly less gaudi, but that is like saying  Motley Crew wore slightly  less makeup than KISS.   Or that Jon Bon Jovi used less hairspray than Tina Turner in their 1980s heyday... 

Dont get me wrong...that is but one reason why I dont personally like hypercars myself. Hypercars since the late 1990s to today just aim to be gaudi in design.  For whatever reason. 

  I limit myself to Corvettes, Vipers and the less hyper-ish Ferrari models.  The ones more in line that compete with Vettes and 911s.  (And the Superfast...that car to me is like a 427 1969 Corvette ZL-1)  I mean, Corvettes and Vipers are the very definition of ostentatious design and modern Ferraris have abandoned their classical good looks for that gaudiness...but...it is what it is. 

(just shootin' the syte with ya....bouncing off ideas)    

These aren't anywhere near gaudy, like the XP-1.

[oldshurst442]

I should like (all) the McLaren models. But they bore me exterior wise.  Like true British fashion, they are too reserved for my tastes.  I love the fact that they are true engineering marvels. I love the fact that all the exterior design choices are purely engineering details. But I have a side of me that dictates that cars should be rolling pieces of art too.  

The thing about these 2000s McLarens, to me at least, is that they evoke a similarity to Ferrari, but lack that Italian flair...  therefore becoming dull, unexciting rolling pieces of metal. 

Not much different than what Balthy is saying right here:

3 minutes ago, balthazar said:

supercars' are no different than CUVs.  A 100 variants, all done to the same formula.

What to stand out? Build / have something unique built, or go offbeat vintage.

 

[oldshurst442]

2 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

These aren't anywhere near gaudy, like the XP-1.

Ok then... I agree. 

Also...  Motley Crew wore slightly  less makeup than KISS.   LOL

[David]

38 minutes ago, balthazar said:

'supercars' are no different than CUVs.  A 100 variants, all done to the same formula.

What to stand out? Build / have something unique built, or go offbeat vintage.

Totally agree, Today's Hyper Super Cars should be unique rather than just another Shooting speed bullet car.

Why not make a Supercar that stands out like these do:

[oldshurst442]

Id like to see @ocnblu  try to lecture us in bringing this EV thread BACK from derailment... (like he claims he did with the random thoughts thread...because he is suck a law abiding C&G citizen...)

But unlikely...

The topic has shifted to gasoline powered hypercars...and THAT is his wet dream right there...

Edited August 13, 2020 by oldshurst442

[David]

15 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Id like to see @ocnblu  try to lecture us in bringing this EV thread BACK from derailment... (like he claims he did with the random thoughts thread...because he is suck a law abiding C&G citizen...)

But unlikely...

The topic has shifted to gasoline powered hypercars...and THAT is his wet dream right there...

But the Hyperion XP-1 is a Hydrogen fueled Hyper Super Car. So it fits right in with this Alternative Fuels Random thread.  

[ocnblu]

3 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

he is suck a law abiding C&G citizen

Quite confused by this phrase.  Are you insulting me?  TELL ME DAMMIT.

My wet dream does not involve supercars.  I think they're an egregious waste of moolah.  The Hyperion DOES look like a coked-up Bug.

And David (the statue) is correct, the Hyperion is an alt fuel vehicle, and since I am suck a law abiding C&G citizen, I will credit him that fact.

*sticks out tongue at olds*

[David]

^ @ocnblu 🤔 Have you ever owned anything other than 6 and 4 banger auto's? 🤔

[ocnblu]

1973 Pontiac Catalina, 400/auto.  1989 Silverado 1500 4X4, 305/5-speed manual.  1966 Impala convertible, 283/Powerglide.  1986 Camaro, 305/5-speed manual.  2002 Silverado 1500, 4.8/auto.  2007 GMC Sierra 1500, 5.3/auto.  All but the Catalina and Impala were bought new.  Why?

Edited August 14, 2020 by ocnblu

[David]

1 hour ago, ocnblu said:

1973 Pontiac Catalina, 400/auto.  1989 Silverado 1500 4X4, 305/5-speed manual.  1966 Impala convertible, 283/Powerglide.  1986 Camaro, 305/5-speed manual.  2002 Silverado 1500, 4.8/auto.  2007 GMC Sierra 1500, 5.3/auto.  All but the Catalina and Impala were bought new.  Why?

The only auto's I have seen pictures of and heard about have all been 6 or 4 bangers, so just wondering if an American V8 had ever been in your stable of rides.

Thank you for sharing.  

[ocnblu]

OK sure

[David]

10 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

OK sure

Now back to our normal Bickering over the Awesome world of EV's.

Liking this story on Lucid and how they WILL NOT do contract manufacturing, are planning for a CUV and possibly a pickup truck.

Quote:

“I can confirm that we’re doing an SUV off the Air platform,” said Rawlinson, confirming that the company has a driving prototype of the future vehicle. “And I’m going to put that into production in early ‘23.”

The CEO has confirmed they have their pilot production line up and running only 8 months after breaking ground on the site.

Lucid test fleet

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1129235_lucid-ceo-confirms-suv-considers-pickup-says-absolutely-not-to-contract-manufacturing

[ccap41]

16 hours ago, ccap41 said:

These aren't anywhere near gaudy, like the XP-1.

I gotta ask, what's funny about this @David?

[David]

2 hours ago, ccap41 said:

I gotta ask, what's funny about this @David?

I find all those exotics to be Gaudy and nothing I would ever be inspired to want. That is why I was laughing as they are all a bit different, but still the same to me.

Not sure what it is about having tight cramped fast cars. I see no reason you cannot do this with a comfy larger auto even if it was sitting low, just do not see anything inspirational about these to me.

The only cool factor to me on the Hyperion XP-1 is the power train. Maybe the car if it was 4 times bigger with comfy space.

[ccap41]

23 minutes ago, David said:

I find all those exotics to be Gaudy and nothing I would ever be inspired to want. That is why I was laughing as they are all a bit different, but still the same to me.

Not sure what it is about having tight cramped fast cars. I see no reason you cannot do this with a comfy larger auto even if it was sitting low, just do not see anything inspirational about these to me.

The only cool factor to me on the Hyperion XP-1 is the power train. Maybe the car if it was 4 times bigger with comfy space.

if it's larger, it weighs more. It HAS to weigh more. You know the struggles of high performance with additional weight. 

All three hyper cars I posted are hybrids, if you didn't know.

[balthazar]

^ Too many variables. Size only generally equals weigh, and in automobiles, there is no "everything else being equal".

I've read all sorts of wild guesses from folk who have no idea; "Gonna need a bigger trailer for the 1950 Chevy, it's gotta weigh over 5000 lbs!'
Why; because it 'looks thick'? [A '50 Bel Air is 3225 lbs.]

[David]

The Drive posted a filing for trademark by GM on Hummer. Seems we might not have Hummer by GMC as everyone thought. The end result could just be Hummer H EV.

Interesting times we live in for sure.

https://www.thedrive.com/tech/35657/this-gm-trademark-might-preview-the-new-hummer-h-ev-logo

[David]

Polestar the EV division of Volvo paid for this study and clearly state the testing methodology. Tesla 3 came in last according to this study.

Funny read as it is so lop sided even with Audi being the best, most efficient depending on how one reads the data.

https://jalopnik.com/tesla-model-3-ranked-last-for-highway-range-efficiency-1844728090

 

[David]

New Bonneville speed record set by an EV.

218.2 MPH 

https://jalopnik.com/the-ev-west-electraliner-won-a-bonneville-electric-spee-1844719544

[ocnblu]

slow day for news I see

[David]

The first reviews of the Polestar 2 are out and while the reviewer says it clearly is aimed at Tesla, it still falls short.

To me it is far nicer looking on the outside than a Tesla, the interior to me is better than the Tesla for a base version. Interior is true Scandinavian sparse, but nice. In black, I would have to say that many will just say it is another average car as it truly fits in and does not say EV till ya drive away in a very quiet car.

You can read the guys full review at the link at the bottom.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1129250_first-drive-review-polestar-2-aims-at-tesla-and-comes-up-just-short

[David]

Watching Hobbs and Shaw after a long work day. Love the EV Triump motorcycle. They Rock!

https://www.triumphmotorcycles.com/public-content/project-triumph-te-1

[balthazar]

On 8/14/2020 at 7:57 PM, David said:

Polestar 2

BO-RING.

[ocnblu]

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

BO-RING.

Looks like a SLIGHTLY updated Volvo S40, the one that was based on a Ford Focus back in the day ~

 

[oldshurst442]

On 8/14/2020 at 7:57 PM, David said:

To me it is far nicer looking on the outside than a Tesla,

Even if the Tesla Model S is long in the tooth, and the Model 3's baby Model S inspirational looks are frumpy, I think...I think that both Teslas are waaaaaay better looking than the Volvo.  The Volvo is frumpy and stumpy looking. But different than the Model 3.  The Model 3 shares the Model S' sleekness.   The Volvo is very blobby.   

BMW 5 Series GTish...   KIA Tellurid-ish...  A cross between both.    

(I saw a Telluride today, and although I liked the exterior design of it when it came out, today I thought it was kinda odd lookin') 

In other words, the Volvo may not be that bad lookin'. Quite handsome I might add, it aint sexy is alls Im sayin'.  

It looks like an appliance vehicle.  And to me, I dont need that in my mid-life crisis age.  I need EXCITEMENT!  So...Ill pass on the Polestar 2 thank-you very much! 

The interior is a tad vanilla.  But Im sure its very functional, so that to me is a huge plus though.  

But I wont be reading the review...Im sure it is a fine automobile, but it dont excite me much.  

[ccap41]

On 8/14/2020 at 4:43 PM, balthazar said:

^ Too many variables. Size only generally equals weigh, and in automobiles, there is no "everything else being equal".

I've read all sorts of wild guesses from folk who have no idea; "Gonna need a bigger trailer for the 1950 Chevy, it's gotta weigh over 5000 lbs!'
Why; because it 'looks thick'? [A '50 Bel Air is 3225 lbs.]

All things being equal, because we're talking about the highest of high performing road cars, yes, it'll weigh more. We're talking about million dollar cars with carbon fiber everywhere already. 

[balthazar]

^ If it's 2 badge-engineered variants, sure you can use "everything else being equal". It's not real world otherwise.

I'll default to my era, two same-Corporation, same-size, top-trim 2-dr hardtops :
'57 DeSoto Adventurer, WB 126", weighs 4040 lbs.
'57 Chrysler 300-C,  WB 126",  weighs 4929 lbs.

[ccap41]

We are so far beyond that though. We're already talking about vehicles weighing virtually as light as possible already..and then making them larger. I'm not saying something larger would weigh 1000 lbs. more. But, 50 lbs. is 50 lbs and engineers don't want that. 

[balthazar]

Driver variation differs by more than 50 lbs. And ‘light as possible’ is ALWAYS a compromise with numerous other factors. See stripped-down, track-only cars there- lightness is king.

I see what you’re saying RE engineers, but I stand by my statement that different cars (even in the same segment) by different OEMs can’t be equated in a ‘pound-per-inch-length’ approach. Compared, but not equated.

Edited August 17, 2020 by balthazar

[ccap41]

Well, something to fit David "comfortably", to him, we're talking FEET longer, FEET wider and FEET taller. 🤣 

I get what you're saying but something he considers comfortable(which would be more along the Grand Touring-style cars, imo) would certainly be a good amount larger and I can't imagine it being a comparable weight. But, that's just my point of view. 

[David]

44 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Well, something to fit David "comfortably", to him, we're talking FEET longer, FEET wider and FEET taller. 🤣 

I get what you're saying but something he considers comfortable(which would be more along the Grand Touring-style cars, imo) would certainly be a good amount larger and I can't imagine it being a comparable weight. But, that's just my point of view. 

We'll it would be awesome if they used high strength steel with balsawood like in the Corvette and carbon fiber in a proper full size luxury car. You would have lite weight with generous space and with an EV Power Train, torque and speed to move it quickly.

1995 Fleetwood Brougham - Had a 5.7L 260 hp V8, got 17 city / 25 highway. length 225", weight of 5691 lbs.

I bet we could with a proper modern lite weight frame drop 2000 lbs.

[balthazar]

🤔 Isn't a Model S 195" long and weighs 4900+ lbs??

[David]

5 minutes ago, balthazar said:

🤔 Isn't a Model S 195" long and weighs 4900+ lbs??

Yes 196" and 4941 lbs for Performance version, 60 pounds less for the Long Range model.

They do not use much high strength steel it seems and could go with a weight reduction also.

[balthazar]

4 hours ago, David said:

1995 Fleetwood Brougham - Had a 5.7L 260 hp V8, got 17 city / 25 highway. length 225", weight of 5691 lbs.

I bet we could with a proper modern lite weight frame drop 2000 lbs.

Your weight is WAY off. Curb weight for that era Brougham is 4460.

Point being : there's no way to engineer a ton out of a 20 or 25 yr old car AND STILL HAVE THE SAME, FUNCTIONAL, LEGAL car.

[David]

26 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Your weight is WAY off. Curb weight for that era Brougham is 4460.

Point being : there's no way to engineer a ton out of a 20 or 25 yr old car AND STILL HAVE THE SAME, FUNCTIONAL, LEGAL car.

Was not thinking of engineering it out of an old car, was thinking of a modern new EV Auto build to be big and roomy like the old ICE cars used to be, but even more room.

The info I grabbed off Edmunds web site so that is what has that stated weight.

[balthazar]

^ Edmunds [pfft].
Any number for any older sedan, that high, is a red flag. Esp over 5000.
EVs have shown cars are only likely to get heavier & heavier (as ranges increase) (and just as most all cars have over the last 50 years), so something in the neighborhood of a Brougham (5" more front hip room than a Model S and NO center console!), and loaded with enough batteries to move it all...THAT would glide right past 5000 lbs. But no one will ever build a sedan of that comfort (dimensionally) again.

[ocnblu]

Maybe someone is confusing curb weight with GVWR.

[David]

16 hours ago, balthazar said:

^ Edmunds [pfft].
Any number for any older sedan, that high, is a red flag. Esp over 5000.
EVs have shown cars are only likely to get heavier & heavier (as ranges increase) (and just as most all cars have over the last 50 years), so something in the neighborhood of a Brougham (5" more front hip room than a Model S and NO center console!), and loaded with enough batteries to move it all...THAT would glide right past 5000 lbs. But no one will ever build a sedan of that comfort (dimensionally) again.

Agree to disagree, as the current solid state batteries are showing anywhere from 4 to 10 times energy density. As we increase density, decreasing the over all number of cell's, I can see a future time where a ICE size 12V battery could easily power an auto for 100 miles.

You are right that as of now, weight for existing current tech EVs will have heavy weight, but the future is bright for smaller, denser power packs that will help with reducing EV weight and increase range.

[David]

VW has announced major expansion of their Chattanooga manufacturing site and an addition of the EV Engineering site.

VW is planning on supporting the greater North American market with all EV production here and expanding from a small roll to a major roll of EV and Battery R&D.

A new contract signed with the battery supplier SKI in Georgia has made VW move R&D in house and local into the US. The results of this will then be used through out the VW EV product line Globally. Development, testing and production are now all aimed here. This will go on top of current electrical circuitry development and testing.

The expansion of the site even in this Pandemic is that the Engineering area will be fully operational by spring 2021.

 News Release: Building EVs in America begins with Engineering EVs in Chattanooga.

https://media.vw.com/releases/1371

[David]

Seems even in the Pandemic year, research is still ongoing and capturing the new auto before it is revealed happens.

Latest reveal ahead of official reveal is the Lucid SUV. Have to say it looks good and seems to borrow some points from Rivian.

Sharp capture by someone on the road in capturing both the Lucid Sedan and SUV.

Will say that there is nothing special that says this really stands out from the rest, but I will give them credit for having a proper SUV back end.

Seems Smooth is the rage as everyone looks to reduce drag by NOT having things stick out.

Some big green house windows, but the sides seem very high giving that bunker look that I have not liked on the Camaro to this SUV.

https://electrek.co/2020/08/18/lucid-electric-suv-prototype-spotted-ahead-launch/

Seems after the Delay that was considered an embarrassment for Musk, Tesla is finally going to push the Two-Factor authentication out to all Tesla Auto's.

https://electrek.co/2020/08/16/tesla-push-2-factor-authentication-embarrassing-delay-elon-musk/

[ocnblu]

2 hours ago, David said:

small roll

 

[balthazar]

Getting a 'big nissan' vibe from the lucid SUV.  That, and a yawn.