Alternative Fuels & Propulsion RANDOM

[oldshurst442]

5 hours ago, balthazar said:

^ Nope.
If it's your personal choice to buy an expensive EV vehicle, you should pay the associated cost.
$750M / 36854 EV (2018 NYS number) = $20,350 per EV vehicle. What's a little higher payment over a few more years relative to saving the Earth?

The self-defeating problem in attempting to tie EV infrastructure costs into IC vehicles in order to "drive change" is that --IF it works-- that pool of money will steadily dwindle as IC vehicles theoretically become less common. Also, tying EV costs to IC vehicles "will disproportionately affect those most cash-strapped in the vehicle pool / those the farthest from affording an EV".

The long-term success would be to tie it to EV vehicles, because --IF it works-- that cost is borne by 1. those spending luxury-vehicle prices (Teslas, audis, jags, Bolingers, Rivians, Lordstowners, etc), and 2. that cost will come DOWN as the EV pool theoretically increases.

Well...

The oil industry got big big....big subsidies from governments...and continue to get big, big...big subsidies from governments to continue on...

Tit for tat is what I say.

Government gives tax breaks to car makers all the time

Government has bailed out car makers in the past.

These car makers produce oil burning cars.

Does it seem economically fair to let EVs survive on their own?  The oil industry did not do it on their own.  

I really dont get the push back for one industry to get help while the other STILL gets help...

 

[balthazar]

Oil industry feeds FAR MORE than merely the tanks of IC vehicles. Google says over 6,000 products. How many products is wind a component of (Washington DC excluded)?

But federal subsidies are another topic (and they go to every single energy producer: oil, electricity, wind, solar, nuclear, etc). Info I saw says solar &wind receive far more financial support than fossil fuels.

Here the question is the state coffers.

Edited July 19, 2020 by balthazar

[oldshurst442]

You said it yourself...

the oil industry feeds far more than...

So why does the oil industry STILL get help from that same state coffer you want to defend?  The oil industry is a multi trillion  gabagoodillion dollar industry.  Why arent you up in arms for them still getting some teet from taxpayers?   

Like I said...

I really dont understand the pushback that some industries face while others dont seem to bother the endless sucking of public money even when its CERTAINLY not necessary anymore... 

PS:  Like you say, even if gasoline powered cars go away, there is enough oil products to be consumed that the oil industry  still stays to be a gabagoodillion dollar industry.   There is no need for big oil to cry foul for EV subsidy help, or gasoline taxes to go up or whatever.  The big oil industry is certainly not gonna go away and whither.  And BECAUSE its a gabagoodillion dollar industry, they could INVEST in EVs and make THAT much MORE money.

But NO!  The fat phoquing cats that collect all that phoquing money from all the phoquing oil derivative products out there, and all the phoquing government subsidies want ALL that wealth ALL to themselves...

And WE as consumers ALLOW them to do that.  

Ill repeat....

I really dont understand the pushback that some industries face while others dont seem to bother the endless sucking of public money even when its CERTAINLY not necessary anymore... 

What we OUGHT TO DO, is pull a French revolution on some of these fat phoquing cats STILL having their fat phouqing cat hands  out.

Let them eat cake...and they beheaded the bitch...

Ill repeat:  At the turn of the last century, big oil got all kinds of help...all kinds of wars were fought, people died...but yet here we are...we get a little upset when gasoline taxes are asked to go up to subsidize another power source...

Why do we want to be so loyal to big oil?    I mean...I get why Texans and Albertans get all huffy and puffy about it.  But as for Alberta...they got another source of energy they could exploit.  WATER...   They could EASILY make gabagoodillion amounts of money doing the water thing...

NOPE!   If the people that want to continue to pollute the planet by driving internal combustion engines...THEY could subsidize the cleaner fuel alternative.   And when not enough taxpayer money is collected by gasoline, we could tax electricity the way we tax gasoline in 2020...    

Oh...and when EXXON's ship captain gets drunk and hits a rock because he was too sloshed to see where the phoque he was going...EXXON could pay BILLIONS in not only clean-ups, but in FINES.  Dont worry...EXXON has got gabagoodillion amounts of money.  They could afford it the billions in fines to clean up their messes...

(yes I realize that was a 30 year old accident...but oil spills CONTINUE to happen WITHOUT a NAY or PEEP by ANYBODY.  I toss a banana peel in the street, Ill get pushed to the ground, read my rights and fined...and Im lucky for that as I have white skin...had I been black though...) 

 

[ocnblu]

What a massive hot air balloon ^

If I only had a pin to pop it

[oldshurst442]

You wouldn't even know how...

 

[riviera74]

57 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Oil industry feeds FAR MORE than merely the tanks of IC vehicles. Google says over 6,000 products. How many products is wind a component of (Washington DC excluded)?

But federal subsidies are another topic (and they go to every single energy producer: oil, electricity, wind, solar, nuclear, etc). Info I saw says solar &wind receive far more financial support than fossil fuels.

Here the question is the state coffers.

States generally do not provide oil subsidies.  Congress has for decades.  Now, NYS could pay for this by raising gas taxes and other pollution taxes.

[balthazar]

Yes, they could. Question is, should they?

Let me put it this way : Do alcohol drinkers subsidize cigarette smokers / their pollution?

[David]

2 hours ago, balthazar said:

Oil industry feeds FAR MORE than merely the tanks of IC vehicles. Google says over 6,000 products. How many products is wind a component of (Washington DC excluded)?

But federal subsidies are another topic (and they go to every single energy producer: oil, electricity, wind, solar, nuclear, etc). Info I saw says solar &wind receive far more financial support than fossil fuels.

Here the question is the state coffers.

Depends I guess on where you look as these studies show Oil industry gets far more subsidies than Solar, wind, Hydro.

• Since WWII Oil has received $600 Billion plus
  • 2015 & 2016 $15 billion a year given to the oil industry.
• Start of the Nuclear age, $100 billion in Subsidies
• Last Decade, $75 billion been spent on Solar and Wind.

https://www.ewg.org/energy/22777/federal-energy-subsidies-what-are-we-getting-our-money

https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/subsidies-for-oil-gas-nuclear-vs-renewables

Interesting study showing we spend 10 times more on Fossil Fuels than our own kids education or renewables.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesellsmoor/2019/06/15/united-states-spend-ten-times-more-on-fossil-fuel-subsidies-than-education/#263063a34473

Another interesting comparison.

https://news.energysage.com/solar-energy-vs-fossil-fuels/

If ya want to ignore all the other think tanks, then at least look at our own Federal Governments reporting of spending on this area.

Clearly Geothermal, Solar, Win and Hydro do not equal what the Oil industry gets of the tax payers dollars.

https://www.eia.gov/analysis/requests/subsidy/

This is very interesting as it shows that since 2016, renewables have been reduced while Oil has been increased in subsidies. Clearly Oil with their crazy profits do not need the billions in subsidies.

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=35932

This is very interesting as it is an Analysis of the EIA reporting. For the first 3 quarters of 2019, Solar and Wind provided 6 times as much electricity as Natural gas plants.

While natural gas production of Electricity has a diminished lead on energy production, clearly we are at a tipping point in this country where renewables will truly be the dominant source of clean power very soon. Once the reporting is complete for Q4 of 2019 and 2020, it will be very interesting to see how this plays out.

https://www.renewablesnow.com/news/overview-us-wind-capacity-exceeds-hydro-while-solar-tops-oil-679030/

Another interesting read about oil subsidies.

https://www.fuelfreedom.org/oil-company-subsidies/

This write up takes one thing that is missing from everything above and that is the subsidies to Oil companies for fossil fuel projects abroad.

https://www.eesi.org/papers/view/fact-sheet-fossil-fuel-subsidies-a-closer-look-at-tax-breaks-and-societal-costs

[balthazar]

Wait- you compared 10 years of wind/solar to SEVENTY-FIVE years of oil??

[David]

6 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Wait- you compared 10 years of wind/solar to SEVENTY-FIVE years of oil??

Have to since that is all the records have, but then you can see in the charts that OIL still takes 3 times or more than any renewable energy source per year.

[balthazar]

The problem with those stats is they look at everything going to oil, and compare it to everything going to wind & solar.
Wind & Solar provide 1 end product : energy.
Oil provides 6000+ end products.
To make an accurate comparison, you have to look at the portion of oil that goes only to energy. Those are vastly different numbers.

 

[David]

8 hours ago, balthazar said:

The problem with those stats is they look at everything going to oil, and compare it to everything going to wind & solar.
Wind & Solar provide 1 end product : energy.
Oil provides 6000+ end products.
To make an accurate comparison, you have to look at the portion of oil that goes only to energy. Those are vastly different numbers.

Totally Disagree with you as you are trying to compare end products when the subsidies do not look at end products.

The subsidies go to an industry, once the looks for and drills for oil regardless of the end product. No different than Solar, Wind or Hydro where subsidies go to it's production also regardless of the end product. 

The end results of the products do not matter to the subsidy as it is the Oil Industry and they get a subsidy when they already produce billions in profits and are 100 plus years old, so why do they need subsidies then compared to new clean tech production of energy sources.

[balthazar]

Subsidies do not "look". Point is, the ROI with 6000+ products is highly valuable.

All wind power can do is generate electricity. Not that that's bad or not worthwhile, but the costs, waste & inefficiency there still need a lot of improvement. I think we'll get there, and I like the concept, I'm just not convinced it's optimally developed yet. I don't think anyone is. Yet- it's relatively simple, so it should be.

With the relative youth of the industry, and the focus on renewability/efficiency, how can this still be? :[

[David]

16 hours ago, balthazar said:

Subsidies do not "look". Point is, the ROI with 6000+ products is highly valuable.

All wind power can do is generate electricity. Not that that's bad or not worthwhile, but the costs, waste & inefficiency there still need a lot of improvement. I think we'll get there, and I like the concept, I'm just not convinced it's optimally developed yet. I don't think anyone is. Yet- it's relatively simple, so it should be.

With the relative youth of the industry, and the focus on renewability/efficiency, how can this still be? :[

Efficiency will come for wind just like it is improving for batteries. 

Did the picture say where this is that they are burying wind turbine blades rather than recycling them?

[balthazar]

Two different sources I read said the blades are NOT recyclable. Are they carbon fiber? Perhaps new ones are coming that will be... but why they weren't from the beginning is troubling and frankly; par for the course.

[David]

4 hours ago, balthazar said:

Two different sources I read said the blades are NOT recyclable. Are they carbon fiber? Perhaps new ones are coming that will be... but why they weren't from the beginning is troubling and frankly; par for the course.

Thank you for that info, it is interesting as carbon fiber can be recycled. The BMW plant in Moses lake here takes all the carbon fiber waste including errors made as they sell the bulk spools to Boeing and they shred it back down and reuse it to form carbon fiber preformed parts. Wonder if the coating on it might have something that makes it not able to be recycled. One would think a filter on a burning plant to burn up the blades to help produce electricity would be better than burring it in the ground.

[David]

Is Tesla in Trouble in China?

BYD just released their Luxury 4 door EV sedan to compete against Tesla S and it is blowing away the public and orders exceed production right now.

How is this possible? BYD has delivered their luxury sedan starting at $40,000 which includes real wood panels, nappa leather upholstery and aluminum trim. It comes standard with 11 airbags, six cameras, Air purification Hepa filters, 5G connectibity and DiPilot driver assist while delivering a world class leading coefficient of drag of just 0.22. The battery pack is good for 314 miles. Curb weight is 4,400 lbs, 196 inches long, 75.2 inches wide and 59.9 inches high and rides on a 115 inch wheelbase.

On top of this, they give you a choice on the orientation of their middle major screen. You can have it in Portrait mode or Landscape mode.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1128931_byd-han-ev-luxury-sedan-arrives-in-china-tesla-model-s-sized-about-40k

For comparison here is the current 2020 Tesla S from their web site. I will say the 2020 is better and finally updated, but I think BYD has them.

[David]

Ford is taking a 1,400 HP Mach E with 7 motors to Nascar to show off what EVs can do. This purpose built concept has an actual hydrolic brake handle to allow drifting in the auto where it disengages the rear 4 motors allowing ultimate drift capability.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1128939_ford-is-taking-a-seven-motor-1400-hp-mustang-mach-e-to-a-nascar-race

https://electrek.co/2020/07/21/ford-unveils-one-off-1400-hp-mach-e-a-driftable-suv-with-7-electric-motors/

[ccap41]

Why would it need more than four motors? 

[David]

12 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Why would it need more than four motors? 

Good question, but one that Ford has yet to explain in the design of 4 motors in the back and 3 motors in the front. Might be packaging into a small space versus a bigger motor.

[ccap41]

5 minutes ago, David said:

Good question, but one that Ford has yet to explain in the design of 4 motors in the back and 3 motors in the front. Might be packaging into a small space versus a bigger motor.

My only real assumptions are either they couldn't fit the equivalently powered larger ones or they didn't want to make a larger one when they already had these in-house with the ability to run them together. 

[David]

First video of the 7 motor Mach e and the sound of the beast.

 

[balthazar]

Glad i watched some of that.
 

I realize its a race car, but the sounds it makes are absolutely unbearable.

[ocnblu]

Nerdiest, most non-sexy "race" car video EVer recorded.  Hands down. 

[balthazar]

Wailing, siren-esque, brain-piercing noise.
Even at a crawl the whine is horrible, and it sounds injured/broken.

[balthazar]

I was told repeatedly that electric motor cars are dead silent- no motor sound, no tire sound, no wind sound, no creaking at the factory-supplied structural cracks.... nothing. What does every second of motion out of this car entail ear-splitting, migraine-level noise???

[Robert Hall]

7 minutes ago, balthazar said:

I was told repeatedly that electric motor cars are dead silent- no motor sound, no tire sound, no wind sound, no creaking at the factory-supplied structural cracks.... nothing. Why does every second of motion out of this car entail ear-splitting, migraine-level noise???

Because race cars usually don't have mufflers, resonators, sound deadening....race cars tend to be very loud and raw sounding, whether EVs or ICE powered.  

Edited July 24, 2020 by Robert Hall

[balthazar]

Ummmm, what?

Edited July 24, 2020 by balthazar

[David]

Rivian has their pilot production line complete and have now been able to give a finalized delivery date schedule for when the truck and SUV will start being delivered to customers.

https://electrek.co/2020/07/24/rivian-delays-electric-pickup-summer-2021/

Now Rivian has issued an update to reservation holders with a clear timeline:

• R1T deliveries will begin June 2021
• R1S deliveries will begin August 2021

Rivian has decided to roll out their own adventure charging network in support of Rivian go anywhere auto's. As such they have hired numerous Tesla employees who had helped Tesla roll out their charging network. 

For the “adventure” aspect of the network, Rivian will first target off-roading pit stops, national parks, and RV parks.

One does have to wonder if this is why Tesla has decided to sue Rivian as they lose employees with knowledge to other EV auto companies as investments pour into EV auto makers.

https://electrek.co/2020/06/01/rivian-adventure-network-electric-pickup-tesla-staff-charging-network/

FIXED, Had to clean up the Sluts!  

[ocnblu]

5 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

mufflers

 

1 hour ago, David said:

loose employees

Those SLUTS!

1 hour ago, David said:

Rivian has their pilot production line complete and have now been able to give a finalized delivery date schedule for when the truck and SUV will start being delivered to customers.

https://electrek.co/2020/07/24/rivian-delays-electric-pickup-summer-2021/

Now Rivian has issued an update to reservation holders with a clear timeline:

• R1T deliveries will begin June 2021
• R1S deliveries will begin August 2021

Rivian has decided to roll out their own adventure charging network in support of Rivian go anywhere auto's. As such they have hired numerous Tesla employees who had helped Tesla roll out their charging network. 

For the “adventure” aspect of the network, Rivian will first target off-roading pit stops, national parks, and RV parks.

One does have to wonder if this is why Tesla has decided to sue Rivian as they loose employees with knowledge to other EV auto companies as investments pour into EV auto makers.

https://electrek.co/2020/06/01/rivian-adventure-network-electric-pickup-tesla-staff-charging-network/

Hey Statue, are you going to be devastated when you realize you cannot fit in a Rivian, because it sounds like it's not very big.

[oldshurst442]

 

This morning, I listened to the Mach E drifter do its EV motor whine and I sooooo wanted to defend it and try to contradict Balthy...but I ran out of time. I had to go to work.

But, something funny happened to me this late afternoon.  I was bitten by a snake. 

And hearing that V10 made me realize: Its hard to argue with Balthy...

The Mach-E sounds HORRIBLE.    I like the tech behind it. I like the way it looks. I HATE the way it sounds. 

 

 

 

 

[Robert Hall]

15 hours ago, ocnblu said:

 

 

Hey Statue, are you going to be devastated when you realize you cannot fit in a Rivian, because it sounds like it's not very big.

Maybe they will make a big and tall version.

[David]

18 hours ago, ocnblu said:

 

Those SLUTS!

Hey Statue, are you going to be devastated when you realize you cannot fit in a Rivian, because it sounds like it's not very big.

There is always the Hummer by GMC!  

My little PeeWee!

[David]

WOW, Guess if your rich there are no bounds to how one can be spoiled.

Introducing the new EV go cart by Bugatti, the Bugatti Baby II. According to this article, Ettore Bugatti loved cars and loved his sons so much that when his 4 year old son asked for a car, he could not say no. So with his older son Jean, they built a half-scale electric replica of the famous Type 35 Bugatti racer. So desirable among the rich at the time, Bugatti went on to build 500 EV Type 35 racer carts from 1927 to 1936. 

Today Bugatti is going to build a 3/4 size EV of the Type 35 racer calling it the Bugatti Baby II.

The Baby II is again aimed at the rich who spoil their kids. It will have 3 trim levels with the Bugatti Baby II base starting at $35,000 with a top speed of 42 miles per hour with a 15 mile range. There is programmed modes so you can limit power and speed. You can lock the auto into Novice mode or go all the way to expert mode.

Middle trim level is called Vitesse and tops out at $50,500.

Top trim level is Pur Sang and tops out at $68,000.

Honestly, I could never understand a parent spending this kind of Coin on a kid who as the story says will probably crash it and leave it out in the rain. But then how a dollar bill is to most of us, I make the assumption that a $1,000 is like that to the rich 1% crowd.

https://www.thedrive.com/news/35070/bugatti-baby-ii-is-the-68000-go-kart-your-kid-will-crash-and-leave-outside-in-the-rain

[ccap41]

On 7/24/2020 at 5:48 PM, ocnblu said:

 

Those SLUTS!

Hey Statue, are you going to be devastated when you realize you cannot fit in a Rivian, because it sounds like it's not very big.

He can miraculously fit into a Bolt but a CX9 and Continental are cramped and tiny. 

[Robert Hall]

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

He can miraculously fit into a Bolt but a CX9 and Continental are cramped and tiny. 

Bolt is taller inside than the Continental, I would think...the Bolt is a very upright box.

[balthazar]

^ 0.4" difference, advantage Bolt.

[David]

@ocnblu @ccap41 @Robert Hall @balthazar

Might only be .4" taller, but the interior has way more space than the CX9 or Continental and YES, I can Actually fit in a Bolt. Wife hated the interior colors.

From the 2016 auto show when I checked out and then wrote up about the Bolt.

I could even squeeze into the back and be far more comfy than either the terrible CX9 or Continental.

Interior dimensions of the Bolt are far bigger than many ICE auto's.

[ccap41]

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

^ 0.4" difference, advantage Bolt.

Leg, hip, shoulder room? 

9 minutes ago, David said:

@ocnblu @ccap41 @Robert Hall @balthazar

Might only be .4" taller, but the interior has way more space than the CX9 or Continental and YES, I can Actually fit in a Bolt. Wife hated the interior colors.

From the 2016 auto show when I checked out and then wrote up about the Bolt.

I could even squeeze into the back and be far more comfy than either the terrible CX9 or Continental.

Interior dimensions of the Bolt are far bigger than many ICE auto's.

This is such BS.. Look at your knee outside of the seat because it's too cramped for you. I can almost guarantee you can't close the door in that EXACT position. 

[ccap41]

Which vehicle do you think he fits in? 🤔

[David]

14 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Leg, hip, shoulder room? 

This is such BS.. Look at your knee outside of the seat because it's too cramped for you. I can almost guarantee you can't close the door in that EXACT position. 

I actually was able to close the door with no problem as there is plenty of room on the side of the chair for my leg.

[balthazar]

While I'd take David at his word he could fit in the back with the door closed, I doubt it'd be comfortable on a decent-length trip. His knees are at the beltline and outside the seat in front. And I know there's no excess room between the seat back and the side of the car- OEMs don't build vehicles with wasted space like that anymore.

My key fob was down for a day (wife put it thru the wash for a few minutes until the panic alarm started randomly going off). I can barely shove my forearm between the seat & the B-pillar to reach the rear door lock button on my 2500HD, and that's like 80" wide.

[David]

LordsTown Motors has released their first video of the test mule truck Endurance. Showing it off as a working mans truck. Very cool to see actual working prototypes / mules. Like everyone else, due to the Pandemic, the production / release to preorder folks will start Summer 2021.

Per their news release, the LordsTown pickup truck Endurance will have the following specifications at this time:

• Base Price $52,500
• Safety Rating (Front, Side, Rollover) 5/5/4
• ADAS-LDW, AEB, Rear Cross Traffic Alert
• Software, OTA (Over the Air Updates)
• Fault Monitoring - OTA real time
• EV Range (EPA cycle) 250+ miles
• Charging time (95% SOC, Level 2-7kW AC/Level 3 DC): 10hrs / .5 to 1.5hrs
• Off-board power for tools and accessory (stationary) 120B, 30 amp)
• Seating Capacity - 5
• Towing Capacity - 7,500 lbs
• Drivetrain layout - 4 hub electric motors
• Brakes Front/Rear: Custom in hub motor brakes with regen
• Wheels: 20"
• Horsepower Peak 600 HP
• Electric Power Steering Assist
• Top Speed (software Governed): 80 mph 
• Gradeability at GVW - 30%
• Warranty - 3yr bumper to bumper, 8 year battery warranty.

 

[ocnblu]

🥱

[David]

Panasonic has announced today their 5yr plan for the battery cells they supply Tesla and any other company that purchases the Panasonic battery cells. Currently Panasonic has started production of their new 2170 battery cell and set two mile stones for enhancing the battery cell. 5 years from now, Panasonic will have increased battery density by 20% as the 2170 will start off 5% more density than the prior battery cell. Panasonic also will be going cobalt free by then if not sooner.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-panasonic-tesla-exclusive/exclusive-panasonic-aims-to-boost-energy-density-in-tesla-batteries-by-20-executive-idUSKCN24V1GB

[David]

Kandi, the Chinese auto company will open up the order books August 18th for people to purchase online their EV auto's.

The Kandi K27 will be the first auto to go on sale in America with a starting price of $20,490 before the $7,500 federal tax credit. 

The K27 will end up costing almost $2,000 less than the current frugal champ the 2021 Chevrolet Spark at $14,790.

The biggest question is will people buy a subcompact with only 100 miles of range for a commuter auto?

The second auto in the line up is the K23 which will start at $29,999 with 180 miles of range. With the federal tax credit this makes the K23 $751 less than the 2021 Mini Cooper SE which has a 110 mile range or the Nissan Leaf S that starts at $32,525 with a 149 mile range or the Hyundai Ioniq EV with a starting cost of $34,020 and a 170 mile range.

Kandi bought in 2018 a Texas based importer company called SC Autosports to handle all North America Distribution. No details have been released yet on how the auto's will be serviced and supported let alone sold state by state other than one can order up an EV starting August 18th on their web site.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1129057_kandi-electric-car-open-to-us-orders-august-18-with-20-499-starting-price

[A Horse With No Name]

On 7/25/2020 at 10:07 AM, Robert Hall said:

Maybe they will make a big and tall version.

With a small and little version for Blu....

We now know why they fight like brothers...they ARE brothers....!

[oldshurst442]

The only Kandi Id like to be ridin'    (But neither since I wouldnt be wanting to put myself into any kind of risk. You guys have good imaginations...  use that to define what it is Im talking about) 

 

[A Horse With No Name]

47 minutes ago, David said:

Kandi, the Chinese auto company will open up the order books August 18th for people to purchase online their EV auto's.

The Kandi K27 will be the first auto to go on sale in America with a starting price of $20,490 before the $7,500 federal tax credit. 

The K27 will end up costing almost $2,000 less than the current frugal champ the 2021 Chevrolet Spark at $14,790.

The biggest question is will people buy a subcompact with only 100 miles of range for a commuter auto?

The second auto in the line up is the K23 which will start at $29,999 with 180 miles of range. With the federal tax credit this makes the K23 $751 less than the 2021 Mini Cooper SE which has a 110 mile range or the Nissan Leaf S that starts at $32,525 with a 149 mile range or the Hyundai Ioniq EV with a starting cost of $34,020 and a 170 mile range.

Kandi bought in 2018 a Texas based importer company called SC Autosports to handle all North America Distribution. No details have been released yet on how the auto's will be serviced and supported let alone sold state by state other than one can order up an EV starting August 18th on their web site.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1129057_kandi-electric-car-open-to-us-orders-august-18-with-20-499-starting-price

GXD D@#$ if that was a woman I would become a buddhist mon k just to embrace celebacy. Hideous. 

On 7/30/2020 at 5:57 PM, David said:

LordsTown Motors has released their first video of the test mule truck Endurance. Showing it off as a working mans truck. Very cool to see actual working prototypes / mules. Like everyone else, due to the Pandemic, the production / release to preorder folks will start Summer 2021.

Per their news release, the LordsTown pickup truck Endurance will have the following specifications at this time:

• Base Price $52,500
• Safety Rating (Front, Side, Rollover) 5/5/4
• ADAS-LDW, AEB, Rear Cross Traffic Alert
• Software, OTA (Over the Air Updates)
• Fault Monitoring - OTA real time
• EV Range (EPA cycle) 250+ miles
• Charging time (95% SOC, Level 2-7kW AC/Level 3 DC): 10hrs / .5 to 1.5hrs
• Off-board power for tools and accessory (stationary) 120B, 30 amp)
• Seating Capacity - 5
• Towing Capacity - 7,500 lbs
• Drivetrain layout - 4 hub electric motors
• Brakes Front/Rear: Custom in hub motor brakes with regen
• Wheels: 20"
• Horsepower Peak 600 HP
• Electric Power Steering Assist
• Top Speed (software Governed): 80 mph 
• Gradeability at GVW - 30%
• Warranty - 3yr bumper to bumper, 8 year battery warranty.

 

I don't see this selling well for a number of reasons. 

[balthazar]

15 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

The only Kandi Id like to be ridin' 

Unbelievably hot.

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Lordstown Endurance is priced $15 grand too high, and towing is about 2 tons short.

Edited August 3, 2020 by balthazar