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[ykX]

8 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Yeah...I do not like shifting my own gears either. But THAT does NOT make me less of a car enthusiast... 

No one claims that you can't be enthusiast if you don't like manual transmission.   However, many enthusiasts DO like the feeling of the manual transmissions.  And despite the small numbers of cars that sell with manual, it seems there are still enough people for some companies to keep selling for now enthusiast targeted cars with manual transmissions.  Perfect example is the brand new 911 and M3/4.  I think people who claim that they are overrated and not necessary in today's world are people who either don't know how to drive one or never driven a good car with good transmission.  

Sports cars are not only about numbers, but also how they make us feel when we drive them.  They are not a logical purchase.  It is possible that eventually manual transmission will completely die out, but until then there are still plenty of people who think as I do.

[oldshurst442]

On 6/23/2021 at 11:26 AM, David said:

I honestly think manual is overrated. Distraction from driving aggressively on curvy roads.

Answer:

On 6/23/2021 at 11:46 AM, ykX said:

Said not one car enthusiast ever.

 

On 6/23/2021 at 12:50 PM, David said:

I am the One!, Love racing, Love aggressive driving, Enjoyed when I was younger the shifting thing for a while, but honestly, a dual clutch paddle shift or just total auto is fine as they are faster than manual and once focused on attacking the road/course, the shifting thing is not even a thought.

 

On 6/23/2021 at 1:19 PM, ykX said:

Almost all racing cars have manual or semi-manual transmissions, obviously that is not a distraction for racing drivers.  And since racing is about getting that extra 0.1% to be faster, it is still faster then automatics.  Except for drag racing, but that's different.

On the road, every true enthusiast have no issues shifting, if you do it long enough it comes automatically, you definitely don't need to think about it, but absolutely enhances the pleasure of driving.    

 

1 hour ago, ykX said:

No one claims that you can't be enthusiast if you don't like manual transmission.   However, many enthusiasts DO like the feeling of the manual transmissions.  And despite the small numbers of cars that sell with manual, it seems there are still enough people for some companies to keep selling for now enthusiast targeted cars with manual transmissions.  Perfect example is the brand new 911 and M3/4.  I think people who claim that they are overrated and not necessary in today's world are people who either don't know how to drive one or never driven a good car with good transmission.  

Sports cars are not only about numbers, but also how they make us feel when we drive them.  They are not a logical purchase.  It is possible that eventually manual transmission will completely die out, but until then there are still plenty of people who think as I do.

 

All the bold parts that you made state otherwise that no one claims you cant be an enthusiast...

1 hour ago, ykX said:

but also how they make us feel when we drive them

 

And THAT statement would be EQUALLY as true about AUTOMATIC transmission-ed sports cars...

@David made an ludicrous statement about manuals being a distraction. But his statement of him saying that manuals are overrated do ring true.  Maybe a tad on the overdramatic side and its certainly a divisive statement, but if we are honest about it...manual transmission cars on crowded public streets full of traffic with gobs and gobs of horsepower that modern sports  cars make upwards of 450 HP and more, where even when the streets ARE empty, no one could possibly use ALL the gears safely at a safe speed...yeah...Id have to AGREE with him, and you should too, that manual transmissions on a modern sports today IS overrated...

EVEN on a Porsche 911 that you mentioned.  The Turbo 911 makes 570 HP.  0-60 in like 2.5 seconds. All in the first gear.  By the time you switch to second, you are blasting around at 100 MPH.   Only in 2 gears...

Shyte...the Viper GTS of 1997 could get you to 60 practically in first gear, you had to shift to second to actuallly attain 60 MPH all with JUST 450HP...

Even in your Mustang... you hit those numbers as your Mustang has 450 HP.   You have to feather the throttle in order for you to row all the gears.  And where is the fun in that...feathering the throttle on a sports car just to row the gears? 

In order for one to TRULY enjoy manual shifting on public roads on the Pacific Coast Highway for instance, one has to buy a Subaru BRZ or Mazda Miata....anything more powerful than that...on today's crowded roads, its just OVERRATED...

On a track? 

Sure!  All that you said about manuals. On public roads...its a different matter all together.

So...I wanted to make it a point that there ARE car crazy people that enjoy fast cars, sports cars but not necessarily like to shift gears.  For many reasons they do not like shifting gears and yeah...sometimes, manuals ARE over rated.  Not to you. You like shifting gears.  But to me...as I have opined my opinion, you at least understand as to why I do prefer automatics over manuals and why I might think they are over rated...

For David...ask him more directly as to why he thinks they are over rated.  

 

 

[ykX]

38 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Even in your Mustang... you hit those numbers as your Mustang has 450 HP.   You have to feather the throttle in order for you to row all the gears.  And where is the fun in that...feathering the throttle on a sports car just to row the gears? 

In order for one to TRULY enjoy manual shifting on public roads on the Pacific Coast Highway for instance, one has to buy a Subaru BRZ or Mazda Miata....anything more powerful than that...on today's crowded roads, its just OVERRATED...

First of all it is 460hp

Secondary, this, as the previous statements are simply not true.

[ykX]

56 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

All the bold parts that you made state otherwise that no one claims you cant be an enthusiast...

All the bold parts say that true enthusiasts enjoy manual transmission, period.  This is not mutually exclusive of the car enthusiasts that  enjoy other types of vehicles.

However, to be honest, on this forum IMO I see very few real auto enthusiast.  Few people who were, and were contributing something of real value, pretty much all left.  Most of the people that here currently just like to argue for pages about stupid sh@t.   And it is getting old.  So call me what you want, but at least I did and I do follow my passion as much as I can, not just argue on the internet.

[oldshurst442]

13 minutes ago, ykX said:

First of all it is 460hp

Secondary, this, as the previous statements are simply not true.

Um...yeah they are.  Manuals are over rated...   Facts are just that...facts.  In fact...manuals became over rated as soon as Oldsmobile invented the automatic transmission waaay back in '39.  

One could like over rated things. I like the Star Wars franchise for instance. I LOVE the Star Wars franchise to be precise. But seeing how Episodes 7, 8 and ESPECIALLY 9 turned out...Star Wars is COMPLETELY over rated. 

I even LOVE the Terminator franchise.  This franchise is TOTALLY over rated. 

I enjoy a Quarter Pounder with Cheese and a Big Mac. Talk about over rated... its the CLASSIC case of something being over rated... 

And there is NOTHING wrong with that...  We must not get too caught up with the superlatives... We must be able to call a spade a spade though but that shoudnt take away from what we like either... 

 

[oldshurst442]

20 minutes ago, ykX said:

All the bold parts say that true enthusiasts enjoy manual transmission, period.  This is not mutually exclusive of the car enthusiasts that  enjoy other types of vehicles.

However, to be honest, on this forum IMO I see very few real auto enthusiast.  Few people who were, and were contributing something of real value, pretty much all left.  Most of the people that here currently just like to argue for pages about stupid sh@t.   And it is getting old.  So call me what you want, but at least I did and I do follow my passion as much as I can, not just argue on the internet.

The bolded parts contradict to what you are saying in this post.

A true enthusiast is one who enjoys manuals.  THAT is what you are saying.

I do NOT enjoy manuals therefore that makes ME NOT a true enthusiast...

A car enthusiast who enjoys manuals is just that...an enthusiast who enjoys manuals...  And an enthusiast who hates on manuals is just that...an enthusiast who hates on manuals.    You  got a passion for the car crazy world, then you are an enthusiast.  BUY the car of your dreams and we may have a real definition of a TRUE enthusiast

And us arguing about manuals, is what you said above:   Its arguing about stupid shyte! 

Like I said above:   And there is NOTHING wrong with that...  We must not get too caught up with the superlatives... We must be able to call a spade a spade though but that shoudnt take away from what we like either... 

PS:  I dont want to call you anything other than an internet friend.  I just want to discuss stupid shyte with you.  

 

Edited June 24, 2021 by oldshurst442

[David]

1 hour ago, ykX said:

All the bold parts say that true enthusiasts enjoy manual transmission, period.  This is not mutually exclusive of the car enthusiasts that  enjoy other types of vehicles.

However, to be honest, on this forum IMO I see very few real auto enthusiast.  Few people who were, and were contributing something of real value, pretty much all left.  Most of the people that here currently just like to argue for pages about stupid sh@t.   And it is getting old.  So call me what you want, but at least I did and I do follow my passion as much as I can, not just argue on the internet.

Sad, as I consider myself a true auto enthusiast!

I have built more race cars than many here have, rebuilt more cars than most due to my dad have a garage, so yes, from rebuilding differentials, transmissions, suspensions to engines and that still has not stopped my enthusiast attitude for the auto and the future which I see as BEV.

We have those that love the old iron, those that love the 70's, 80's and 90's and now those that love the 21st century ICE. We also have those that love the future BEV. 

One cannot say that those are not enthusiasts. Yes we have a few that only seem to want to argue, but still could be considered an auto enthusiast, we had those that are auto enthusiasts of all things ICE and have left due to their own bad behavior. 

In our Multi-Cultural world, accepting change even when one does not like change is part of life and for those that would just focus on attacking change the people that support it is sad and those have left or were banned due to their behavoir.

Yes, we need more folks to join. Yet, in todays social media world and with a pandemic, it is hard at this time to get people to join. Hopefully this will change as the world get vaccinated, sadly for some it will not.

I challenge everyone here including myself to get one new member by the end of the year.

[oldshurst442]

 

A commentator stated that the fun starts at 14:59.   True...the enthusiastic driving does start there. All for a glorious 2 minutes and a half about. 

Another commentator wrote: 

The_Larson Family

 

2 weeks ago

I love how this shows the pure reality of driving. I'd be wanting to go faster, but we can't always go as fast as we'd like...ty for the pure, unadulterated reality of a super car.

 

 

 

And not just trying to drive fast, but for shifting gears... 

Maybe where you guys live, you still have open roads where one could enjoy shifting and matching revs with the curves and the straights and the spirited driving etc...

Where I come from, traffic and pot holes negate all the joys of driving.  Including cruising.   Not to say you shouldnt buy a manual JUST because a doofus (sorry David) on the internets said manuals are overrated. Buy a freakin' manual if that is your fancy. 

But on the flips side, let us not be blind to the fact that manuals ARE overrated for many many modern reasons... Traffic is one.

Speed and high horsepower is another (on PUBLIC roads).

 

[David]

4 hours ago, ykX said:

No one claims that you can't be enthusiast if you don't like manual transmission.   However, many enthusiasts DO like the feeling of the manual transmissions.  And despite the small numbers of cars that sell with manual, it seems there are still enough people for some companies to keep selling for now enthusiast targeted cars with manual transmissions.  Perfect example is the brand new 911 and M3/4.  I think people who claim that they are overrated and not necessary in today's world are people who either don't know how to drive one or never driven a good car with good transmission.  

Sports cars are not only about numbers, but also how they make us feel when we drive them.  They are not a logical purchase.  It is possible that eventually manual transmission will completely die out, but until then there are still plenty of people who think as I do.

I have to laugh as you are making a HUGE ASSumption about me as I have probably driven more race cars, more sport cars and at higher speeds than many have. I have driven many a good car with a manual and many a good car with an automatic and I yearly drive 1 of the 10 best drives in North America at triple digits. I still think in todays age that Manuals are overrated now.

Be it motorcycles which is awesome.

Be it cars, this is where I go and drive and enjoy being an enthusiast.

Check out the North Cascade Highway, a perfect place for anyone who loves to ride or drive to enjoy the road!

[surreal1272]

5 hours ago, ykX said:

I think people who claim that they are overrated and not necessary in today's world are people who either don't know how to drive one or never driven a good car with good transmission. 

I think you need to stop assuming things about people and their habits. I grew up on manuals and spent the first twenty years (after I was legal to drive at 16 in 1988) driving nothing but manuals, from a busted ‘81 Chevette to a (at the time almost new) ‘94 RX-7 and everything in between. Even after that, I have driven everything from a 2018 Corvette Z06, with a 7 speed manual, on down. I haven’t owned a stick in over a decade now but it was personal choice and had jack $h! to do with driving enthusiasm or lack thereof. STOP ASSUMING $h!, is the point here. Save your lofty standards for another site where they don’t mind the condescending tone of your posts.

2 hours ago, ykX said:

However, to be honest, on this forum IMO I see very few real auto enthusiast.  Few people who were, and were contributing something of real value, pretty much all left.  Most of the people that here currently just like to argue for pages about stupid sh@t.   And it is getting old.  So call me what you want, but at least I did and I do follow my passion as much as I can, not just argue on the internet.

Again, assuming $h! you haven’t the faintest clue over.

[ykX]

3 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

Save your lofty standards for another site where they don’t mind the condescending tone of your posts.

One and only thing I do agree with you, I should have stopped wasting my time here long time ago.   There is only one true enthusiast and a decent poster left here @balthazar .  The rest of you are full of sh@t and excuses.

[balthazar]

"Can't we all just get along?" 😖

Folk in here need to chill; none of us are making industry policy here... we're just talking.

[surreal1272]

11 hours ago, balthazar said:

"Can't we all just get along?" 😖

Folk in here need to chill; none of us are making industry policy here... we're just talking.

Most of us are talking but when certain self righteous asshats act like they know better than everyone else simply because of a certain car they drive (and the transmission involved), and then tells EVERYONE ELSE that they are full of $h! and excuses, I take exception because clearly that particular person doesn't know what the hell they're talking about. My "niceness" ends right there.

Edited June 25, 2021 by surreal1272

[surreal1272]

In an effort to get this back on track, I am just going to leave this little Tesla Y vs Ford Mustang Mach-E article right here. Go ahead and act like Tesla isn't sweating the competition and remember what's been said here (repeatedly) about their quality that clearly hasn't been fixed after more than a decade in existence for Tesla. People notice stuff like that, you know?

https://www.yahoo.com/autos/comparison-test-2021-ford-mustang-110000731.html

Edited June 27, 2021 by surreal1272

[David]

4 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

In an effort to get this back on track, I am just going to leave this little Tesla Y vs Ford Mustang Mach-E article right here. Go ahead and act like Tesla isn't sweating the competition and remember what's been said here (repeatedly) about their quality that clearly hasn't been fixed after more than a decade in existence for Tesla. People notice stuff like that, you know?

https://www.yahoo.com/autos/comparison-test-2021-ford-mustang-110000731.html

Lets also add this info, Panasonic, Tesla dedicated battery builder just dumped all the shares they hold in Tesla.

Yes they say it is for other investments, but reality is the price is very over valued and time to take the money and run as Tesla is going to have hard times as other auto companies start delivering their BEV.

Tesla Battery Supplier Panasonic Cuts Entire Stake In Elon Musk Company (msn.com)

Then lets also realize that Tesla is on a downward trend compared to Ford and GM.

Tesla stock is getting left in Ford's and GM's dust (msn.com)

Clearly, Tesla needs some better leadership.

[David]

The Bipartisan DC infrastructure deal includes $15 billion to EV Charging across the country (500,000 Charging Stations), $45 billion for School and transit BEV buses and $100 billion in consumer rebates to trade in ICE and buy BEV.

Additional details seems to be $66 billion for rail to move to electric, Another $49 billion for public electric transit, this includes electric rail and $73 billion for Electrical grid upgrades.

Charged EVs | Bipartisan infrastructure proposal includes a new federal tax on EVs (updated) - Charged EVs

Biden’s goal of 500,000 EV chargers intact after infrastructure deal with 10 senators (autonews.com)

Biden Live Updates: Infrastructure Deal News - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

[David]

For $11,850 US Dollars you too can have this 155 mile range sporty EV bike.

Europe's newest long-range, low-cost electric motorcycle is production-ready and looks good - Electrek

[oldshurst442]

for 1.3 million, you could have a vaporware, Audi Quattro inspired EV

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a36879338/1980s-audi-quattro-homage-e-legend/

The car will be constructed around a lightweight carbon-fiber monocoque and a 90.0-kWh battery, which the company claims will provide 249 miles of range according to the European WLTP methodology. Although no specifics on the electric motors were provided, the EL1's 805 horsepower will be sent to both the front and rear axles. E-Legend says that this is enough oomph for the EL1 to zip to 62 mph in 2.8 seconds, to 124 mph in less than 10 seconds, and on to a top speed of 158 mph.

 

 

 

 

 

[David]

Possibly 1 of 250 Tesla S Plaid has self destructed according to this story. All the details are not in yet, but it does seem based on visual info that this Tesla S that burned to the ground this week was 1 of 250 Plaid models delivered so far.

2021 Tesla Model S Plaid Fire (jalopnik.com)

 

[balthazar]

Yeah... but it burnt to the ground FASTER THAN ANY OTHER SEDAN!!

[Robert Hall]

Go fast, burn bright...

[David]

EV News:

According to the California New Car Dealers Association (CNCDA) reported that plug-ins sold in Q1 of 2021 were 10.8% of the total auto market. All electric auto's (BEV) were 8.1% of the total market. CNCDA reports that 1 in 5 auto's sold is a Hybrid in California.

• BEVs = 8.1% market share
• PHEVs = 2.7%
• HEVs (Hydrogen electric vehicle) = 9.8%
• Total market share of all EVs = 20.6% for the state

Tesla market share in California is up 12.5% for the quarter which represents 5.3% of the market compared to Q1 of 2020 when it was 4.6%.

https://insideevs.com/news/516906/california-plugin-car-sales-2021q1/

 

[David]

The Mustang Cobra Jet 1400, a purpose built all electric drag car just smashed records giving Ford a Big Boost in their EV technology. Seems Ford has sold all 68 production versions of this Mustang at $130,000 each.

8.27 seconds @ 168 mph quarter mile.

Cobra Jet 1400 Sets New World Record (motorious.com)

 

[oldshurst442]

On 7/1/2021 at 7:16 PM, balthazar said:

Yeah... but it burnt to the ground FASTER THAN ANY OTHER SEDAN!!

Ferrari or Lamborghini might want to challenge you on that statement.  

EDIT:

I just realized you said sedan.

Sorry!  My bad!

Yup...Tesla sedans burn faster than any other sedans.

Maybe when/if the roadster 2.0 comes out to play, then Tesla could own the 2 door sports car fastest burning record as well stripping it away from the Italians. 

[surreal1272]

Well, this is certainly interesting and an about face for some in the Dodge crowd.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/autos/dodge-launch-worlds-first-electric-132500545.html

Edited July 8, 2021 by surreal1272

[David]

6 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Well, this is certainly interesting and an about face for some in the Dodge crowd.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/autos/dodge-launch-worlds-first-electric-132500545.html

Very cool, thanks for catching this. This is AWESOME, I see they also have a video.

 

[ccap41]

I do like the Easter egg of it being AWD there at the end with all four wheels smoking. 

[David]

5 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I will have a story today covering the Stellantis EV day release, some great info, but I have to say after watching this video, I am very excited for An American eMuscle Dodge Charger and Challenger. AWD seems to be clear in this screen capture of the video.

The Germans should be scared as the ULTIMATE DRIVING MACHINE is coming with POWER to Spare!

[ccap41]

Edited comment

Edited July 8, 2021 by ccap41

[surreal1272]

43 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Edited comment

Let me just say that if they manage to give an EV Challenger 500 miles of range, I am selling some organs for it. I only need one kidney.

[oldshurst442]

Id want to buy a Hellcat V8 Challenger BEFORE the EV version would come out though...   

But Id ALSO buy the EV version too so Id have both in my garage.  

All I have to do is dream....maybe it'll come true one day... 

 

And I just HAVE to post Heart's dream song too...

 

Edited July 8, 2021 by oldshurst442

[David]

@oldshurst442 So this kind of garage

but with EV too!

Course having this also works along with EV.

[oldshurst442]

^^^ 

1970 Challenger 440

1969 Charger Hemi

2015-2021 Challenger Hellcat

1969 Plymouth Roadrunner Hemi or 440 

2024 Challenger EV

2024 Charger EV

And THAT would complete the Mopar portion of my garage.

No! Wait!

1997 Dodge Viper GTS

1955 Chrysler 300

1958 Plymouth Fury

1994 Dodge Viper RT/10

and there is more...

 

[David]

Seems Switzerland in just a little over a year has made a rapid change from ICE to BEV\PHEV\Hybrid with a 38.8% market share. 

• Bev = 9.9%
• PHEV = 8.3%
• Hybrid = 20.6%

Statistics - Swiss eMobility (swiss-emobility.ch)

[David]

Seems Rivian due to the Pandemic, parts delays, and a desire to NOT SHIP BETA auto's to customers much like Tesla has done has pushed deliveries of the R1T truck to September from July according to this story which is based on a letter sent to reservation holders by CEO RJ.

Rivian R1T deliveries delayed to September: If it’s first with an electric pickup, who’s next? (greencarreports.com)

Seems the ultimate jab at Tesla with this part quoted from the story.

Rivian has one production line intended for its R1T pickup and R1S SUV, and another for its commercial vans. Scaringe noted that the company has produced hundreds of vehicles for validation purposes. In what appeared to be a jab to Tesla, which is known for delivering “beta” cars that aren’t fully fleshed-out, he wrote: “I have been asked why we aren’t delivering those vehicles or why we continue to test rather than deliver. We believe it is critical to both our long-term success and your ultimate satisfaction that the quality and robustness of our launch products truly sets the tone for what to expect from us as a brand.”

Full letter is included in the link below.

Rivian delays deliveries of its R1T electric pickup truck to September - Electrek

[balthazar]

Read elsewhere that Q2 2021 BE sales reached a tick over 110,000 for the quarter. 
This was against the total Q2 vehicle sales of 4,412,737 units; a market share of 2.0%. 
(Hybrids are outside the BE number.)

Edited July 17, 2021 by balthazar

[David]

Lots going on in the BEV arena and here is the run down on all the changes.

BYD in China delivered 40,116 plug-in electric auto's for the month of June a new record for auto's of this type.

China: BYD Plug-In Electric Car Sales Hit New Record In June 2021 (insideevs.com)

Rivian has anounced it is searching for a second North American manufacturing plant to produce batteries and expand production of their Truck/SUV auto's.

Rivian Electric Truck Startup Seeking Location For 2nd US Factory (insideevs.com)

VW is ramping up sales as the ID.4 does well and now VW releases the ID.6 twins into the market.

Volkswagen ID.6 Duo (X And CROZZ) Enter Chinese Market (insideevs.com)

To speed up change over, it is some times important to just buy an existing company than to retool, build and test your own motors. Mercedes has done this by buying an electric motor company to speed up the change over form ICE to pure BEV by 2030.

Charged EVs | Mercedes-Benz acquires motor technology firm YASA - Charged EVs

New Honda CEO has confirmed Honda will become a pure BEV company globally by 2040.

Charged EVs | New CEO confirms Honda will go all-electric by 2040 - Charged EVs

Mercedes has announced their new updated plans to go all electric ending ICE auto's by 2030.

Mercedes-Benz prepares to go all-electric - Daimler Global Media Site

• All newly launched architectures will be electric-only from 2025 onwards.
• In 2025 Mercedes-Benz will launch three electric-only architectures.
• Mercedes-Benz will be ready to go all electric at the end of the decade, where market conditions allow.
• Mercedes-Benz to install battery cell capacity of more than 200 Gigawatt hours with partners, plans for eight Gigafactories.
• New partnerships for development and production of battery cells in Europe.
• Efficiency of electric drivetrains to be enhanced through vertical integration and the acquisition of YASA, a specialist in ultra-high performance axial flux motors.
• Plug & Charge to introduce seamless charging without extra steps needed for authentication and payment. Mercedes me Charge to have more than 530,000 AC and DC charging points worldwide.
• Acceleration of electrification ramp-up marks a radical shift in capital allocation.
• Mercedes-Benz is committed to its margin targets – also in a BEV-world.

This change is based on the fact that going into 2020 Mercedes figured global BEV sales of 25% by 2025, that has now changed to 50% global BEV sales by 2025 and 100% BEV sales starting in 2030. R&D will drop by 80% for ICE and plug-in hybrid by 2026 as they focus 100% of company resources on BEV after that. Mercedes states that their margins will be similar to ICE by 2026 as Mercedes invests $40 billion Euro's between 2022 to 2030 for this change over to BEV portfolio.

[surreal1272]

A snippet from recent MT article about the Mercedes Benz EQS.

"The EQS580's dual motors combine for 516 hp and 631 lb-ft of torque—with the rear motor being the same 329-hp, 419-lb-ft unit used in the EQS450+—and Mercedes says it'll reach 60 mph in 4.1 seconds. That's quick for something so large, but that 4.1 seconds is nearly twice as long as it'll take a Tesla Model S Plaid to reach the same speed. The EQS450+ moves more deliberately still, needing a claimed 5.9 seconds to reach 60."

 

 

So, are 0-60 times still important? Asking for a friend who insists that Tesla's 0-60 times are what makes them so great.

 

Source:

https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2022-mercedes-benz-eqs-electric-luxury-car-first-drive-review/

Edited July 26, 2021 by surreal1272

[balthazar]

On 7/9/2021 at 12:35 AM, David said:

Hybrid = 20.6%

Hybrids are still IC.

[ccap41]

But all of the SAVINGS!

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a30209598/2019-tesla-model-3-reliability-maintenance/

"One of the pitches we hear often on the switch to EV ownership is that electric vehicles are cheaper to maintain. But, as we close in on 40,000 miles in a Tesla Model 3, the actual savings in service costs is turning out to be quite minimal.

Sure, the Model 3 needs no oil changes, which in theory should save us significant cost. However, the Model 3's requirement that we lubricate the brake calipers every year or 12,500 miles—something specified for areas that use road salt in the winter months—has cost nearly as much, totaling $432 for three such services thus far, which often also include a tire rotation. Although that's less than the $539 we spent on maintenance for our BMW M340i or the $728 for our Kia Telluride, that savings works out to between $6 and $15 a month over the course of our nearly two years of ownership, which would be barely noticeable in an owner's budget."

[balthazar]

^ This has been reasonably established.

BEV fans have trumpeted 'like, no maintenance costs!!' then '80% less maintenance', yet the municipal cost analysis showed BE's cost MORE to maintain, and that chart David posted the other day showed maintenance costs to be nearly equal. Now we have this cost comparison. BEV fans will still laugh/dismiss these data sets.

The early spin was advertising schlock, and that was obvious. Rabid fans will slurp that up as if they've never cast a 'critical thinking eye' on automotive advertising before, when the logical & prudent approach is; let's see what ACTUALLY happens.

The #1 problem is still cost disparity, the bulk of which is on the Monroney sticker.

[surreal1272]

14 hours ago, balthazar said:

BEV fans will still laugh/dismiss these data sets.

And diehard ICE fans do the same thing from the other side. Not exactly a convincing argument. That ccap article also covers the issue with Tesla, that does not exist with the mainstream competition like GM and Ford. By all means though, ignore that elephant in the room though.

 

"And, since Tesla owns all of its service centers and maintains tight control over its parts, there are fewer options to shop around for service in cases like these than for most other cars."

 

The simple solution there are 3rd party options and service, just like with ICE. 

 

I would also like to see this chart you quote from David as I can't seem to find it. @David?

Edited July 30, 2021 by surreal1272

[David]

On 7/29/2021 at 2:16 PM, balthazar said:

^ This has been reasonably established.

BEV fans have trumpeted 'like, no maintenance costs!!' then '80% less maintenance', yet the municipal cost analysis showed BE's cost MORE to maintain, and that chart David posted the other day showed maintenance costs to be nearly equal. Now we have this cost comparison. BEV fans will still laugh/dismiss these data sets.

The early spin was advertising schlock, and that was obvious. Rabid fans will slurp that up as if they've never cast a 'critical thinking eye' on automotive advertising before, when the logical & prudent approach is; let's see what ACTUALLY happens.

The #1 problem is still cost disparity, the bulk of which is on the Monroney sticker.

Do you remember which thread I had posted the chart and link in related to what you are talking about? Been a crazy week and I honestly do not remember.

11 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

I would also like to see this chart you quote from David as I can't seem to find it. @David?

Looking around to see which thread I posted in with a chart and link on maintenance. Hopefully Balthazar will remember.

I think it was based on this post about a study on cost and maintenance / ownership.

 

[David]

Interesting that while battery cells have been dropping in cost every year, now assembly is being looked at as another place to drop costs and it seems laser connection of cells strung together can be done at a much lower cost.

https://chargedevs.com/newswire/laser-bonding-can-cut-battery-assembly-cost-by-50-whitepaper/

 

 

[balthazar]

^ Yet Tesla is raising prices monthly despite these claimed lower costs…

[balthazar]

1 hour ago, David said:

 

 

With a tried & true Turbo HydraMatic 400 3-spd, this rig is solid in the 8's : 

[balthazar]

13 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

I would also like to see this chart you quote from David as I can't seem to find it.

I apparently mis-interpreted the chart. I believe it is showing the quantified emissions associated with maintenance, not necessarily the cost. How (or why) they tabulated that I have no idea. 

[surreal1272]

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

^ Yet Tesla is raising prices monthly despite these claimed lower costs…

Good thing they are no longer the only EV player in town because their constant price jumps are just dumb beyond words. 

[surreal1272]

9 hours ago, balthazar said:

I apparently mis-interpreted the chart. I believe it is showing the quantified emissions associated with maintenance, not necessarily the cost. How (or why) they tabulated that I have no idea. 

That graph takes some translating but from what I’ve seen from multiple articles on this is that the biggest issue with EV vs. ICE is the up front cost, ie EVs cost more to buy. Aside from that, there is no comparison when it comes to maintenance costs (again, Tesla’s stupid prices not withstanding). 

[Robert Hall]

13 hours ago, balthazar said:

With a tried & true Turbo HydraMatic 400 3-spd, this rig is solid in the 8's : 

That's a novelty for drag racing, though...not a real world daily driver type car like the Model S or Taycan.