Toyota News: Toyota Unveils Full Global Battery Electric Line-up

[David]

Toyota is not new to auto electrification, but they have found themselves on the far side of the moon in comparison to other OEMs in being ready to sell electric autos to the global public.

Toyota sued California CARB in attempts to stay ICE with their hybrid Prius line-up and Hydrogen as Toyota had bet big on Hydrogen over electric autos to the extent of selling Hydrogen autos in California and building some Hydrogen fueling stations. Yet while this could be the way for Semi trucks or what is known as Class 8 heavy haulers that use hydrogen generators to power an electric power train, it seems the public has chosen to endorse BEV or battery electric autos.

As such, Toyota has had to make a massive change and went on a hiring spree of engineers to support a global electric auto lineup for Toyota and Lexus and with that, they have announced the following:

• Akio Toyoda announces 30 battery electric models by 2030
• Total global battery electric vehicle sales to reach 3.5M within same timeframe
• Lexus aims for 100% battery electric mix in Europe*, N. America and China by 2030
• Announcement underpins Toyota Motor Europe plan for 100% CO₂ reduction in all new vehicles sales by 2035 in West Europe
• bZ battery electric family in Europe to expand with introduction of a small crossover as follow up to bZ4X launch

They also had a Media Briefing on their battery EV strategies:

It would appear that the Toyota Tacoma electric pickup is their most complete concept EV that could go into production.

Sadly, for some weird reason, I cannot download the press release images from their website, please look at the images here:

Electric Auto Portfolio

It would seem Bugatti has rubbed off on Toyota / Lexus for one of their electric super cars.

Strangely I find the future design directive of Toyota / Lexus to be a very Angular style.

I did find that all the extra-large images have been posted here:

Toyota Pickup EV Concept Likely Previews Electric Tacoma (insideevs.com)

Toyota unveils full global battery electric line-up

Video: Media Briefing on Battery EV Strategies | Corporate | Global Newsroom | Toyota Motor Corporation Official Global Website

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[balthazar]

The above pic is primarily computer-renders; note the chopped-off wheels of the far right 2nd-row one, pus the cast shadows are inconsistent. Not so sure toyoter has it's ducks in a line yet on this move. 

[Robert Hall]

The blue one looks a new FJ Cruiser..that looks interesting, along w/ the sports cars.

[ccap41]

Sweet, a bunch of CGI electric vehicles.

They're still way behind. 

[smk4565]

2030 is a long away off, you can develop a car in 3-4 years, and Toyota is big enough to develop multiple at one time.  This isn't one product at a time Tesla, Toyota probably has more cash and resources than any other car company.  Although they are also more cautious and slow moving than most car companies, as they hate risk.  I think they are late to the party, maybe that will hurt them, maybe they can use their size and scale to catch up and it won't matter, time will tell.

[balthazar]

Of course, you can't start developing a vehicle you intend to sell that year. And (assumedly) with a brand new, untried architecture, toyoter would need at least 5 years' head start, which means 2024 (for a fall 2029 intro). They were lobbying against BE moves like 5 minutes ago. Which means they have less than 3 years.

[David]

15 hours ago, smk4565 said:

2030 is a long away off, you can develop a car in 3-4 years, and Toyota is big enough to develop multiple at one time.  This isn't one product at a time Tesla, Toyota probably has more cash and resources than any other car company.  Although they are also more cautious and slow moving than most car companies, as they hate risk.  I think they are late to the party, maybe that will hurt them, maybe they can use their size and scale to catch up and it won't matter, time will tell.

Toyota is late to the party, late to starting battery development and supplies, late to the whole EV movement as they bet on Hybrids going to Hydrogen. Yet Hydrogen makes no sense in the retail auto space unlike Semi trucks which make more sense. Sadly, we all know that Hydrogen takes more energy to produce the fuel than what you get out of it and the market has spoken so Toyota is behind the 8 ball and is doing the same thing they did the last 5 years, legal lawsuits to try and postpone them losing market share.

They not only still are pushing their worthless lawsuit against CARB and California to stop EVs, but they have also even filed legal motions against their own Japanese government which is moving forward with support for EVs over Hydrogen.

They might have money in the bank, but they have idiots in leadership positions and that will cost them in the long run. 

Interesting times we live in and it will be interesting to see who comes out on top as I do not expect Tesla to be tops in the EV auto market once Everyone Has EVs to sell.

13 hours ago, balthazar said:

Of course, you can't start developing a vehicle you intend to sell that year. And (assumedly) with a brand new, untried architecture, toyoter would need at least 5 years' head start, which means 2024 (for a fall 2029 intro). They were lobbying against BE moves like 5 minutes ago. Which means they have less than 3 years.

Agree, Toyota is a good 5 to 6 years behind everyone else since they bet big on Hydrogen only to lose out. I actually expect them to do ok with Electric Semi Trucks powered by Hydrogen Generators, but in the retail auto space, they are falling behind fast.

[smk4565]

Agree that Toyota made a lot of mistakes, and is way late.  But if they pull a 180 and go all in on EV then I wouldn't be surprised if they have a line up of EV's at better prices than the competition and with the Toyota reliability/quality/resale advantage that they have now over competitors.  

[balthazar]

Toyoter lost their reliability advantage a decade ago.

[David]

On 12/18/2021 at 12:23 PM, smk4565 said:

Agree that Toyota made a lot of mistakes, and is way late.  But if they pull a 180 and go all in on EV then I wouldn't be surprised if they have a line up of EV's at better prices than the competition and with the Toyota reliability/quality/resale advantage that they have now over competitors.  

Toyota IMHO does not have Reliability. Too much proof out there online but everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Even with a 180 that Toyota is implying they are doing as they have announced a battery plant to be built and operational by 2025 in Liberty NC Toyota to build $1.29 billion EV battery plant in North Carolina (cnbc.com)

They are still going to be behind everyone else and they have stated that the bulk of their EVs will be out by 2030 but everyone else especially GM is planning to have most in production by 2025 with more coming out and refresh versions between 2025 and 2030.

Toyota is late and there is NOTHING they can do at this point to make up the ground. Lemmings are always willing to wait to be told when and what to do, so I am sure the Toyota Lemmings buyers will wait and be half a decade behind everyone else.

[surreal1272]

On 12/18/2021 at 3:58 PM, balthazar said:

Toyoter lost their reliability advantage a decade ago.

No they really haven't despite your many claims to such things. Issues? Yes. Recalls? Also yes. Does that mean their reliability is garbage? Nope. not one damn bit.

 

 

14 hours ago, David said:

Even with a 180 that Toyota is implying they are doing as they have announced a battery plant to be built and operational by 2025 in Liberty NC Toyota to build $1.29 billion EV battery plant in North Carolina (cnbc.com)

Being built less than ten miles from my house, for the record. I will say this too. For all of Toyotas problems with quick changes in the market (and their stupid commitment to hydrogen), if you think they won't catch up in a hurry, then you are fooling yourself. That have the capital to get on the wagon quick. Being first to produce something doesn't mean squat in the car world anymore. 

Edited December 20, 2021 by surreal1272

[surreal1272]

14 hours ago, David said:

Toyota IMHO does not have Reliability. Too much proof out there online but everyone is entitled to their opinion.

There are all sorts of opinions online. I can go to any number of forums related to various cars owned by various members here and can find plenty of problems. The point is that the internet is for complainers and no one compliments anything to anywhere near the same degree as which they would direct a complaint. That is a fact. The fact also remains that Toyota and Lexis routinely clean everyone's clock in just about every reliability survey. That doesn't mean that everyone else sucks but to think Toyotas are somehow piles of $h! (for whatever reason) is beyond ill-informed.

Edited December 20, 2021 by surreal1272

[balthazar]

^ My statement was- they have no "advantage", not that they were 'POS'.

[surreal1272]

3 minutes ago, balthazar said:

^ My statement was- they have no "advantage", not that they were 'POS'.

And my statement is that they STILL have that advantage. Not sure how you can interpret that any other way. 

 

And no offense but you have implied (many times) that Toyotas are basically junk and garbage so there is that.

Edited December 20, 2021 by surreal1272

[smk4565]

You can look at how many 200k plus mileage Toyotas and Lexus are out there.  Also look at what those sell for compared to an American car.  Whenever I run values on cars for work, if it is an FCA, Ford or GM product nearing 200k miles or above, the car is basically worthless, maybe $3k.  A 200k mile Camry could still be a $10k car, because there is an expectation that Toyotas just last forever.  

[balthazar]

Like I said; perceptions lag.

[oldshurst442]

4 hours ago, smk4565 said:

 A 200k mile Camry could still be a $10k car,

There is no entity that is going to buy a private person's 200K Camry for 10 thousand dollars...

Let me put it this way...

YOU own a 200K Camry regardless the year, and you waltz into ANY brand dealership, including a Toyoter dealership, and you want to trade in your 200K Camry for a new car, no dealership from here to hell will give you 10 thousand dollars for it.

The dealership will give you 200 thousand REASONS as to why your 200K Camry is worth maybe $200.00 

HOWEVER, anybody selling a 200K Camry, from a used car dealership to a private sale, to a stupid fool thinking that Toyoters are soooooo phoquing reliable, that stupid gullible Toyoter fool just might fork over 10 000 dollars for one.

So yeah...  Perception....  

 

 

Edited December 21, 2021 by oldshurst442

[surreal1272]

14 hours ago, balthazar said:

^ My statement was- they have no "advantage", not that they were 'POS'.

And you are wrong on that too. Outside of their full size pick up SUV offerings, they sell everything they can make and they sell more than the competition (on average) and it is precisely because of that advantage that you think doesn’t exist. 
 

Btw, you need to read what I actually said about your POS statement. That’s all I’m goi g to say because you clearly misread it. 

[balthazar]

That's sounding vaguely like the smk argument; 'it sells the most so it's the best'.

[surreal1272]

7 hours ago, balthazar said:

That's sounding vaguely like the smk argument; 'it sells the most so it's the best'.

And it’s sounding not so vaguely like you still are missing the point so let me say it one more time. Those sales were mentioned to illustrate the fact that it is directly connected to the perception that those buyers have about Toyota, a perception you claim (without proof) doesn’t exist or is somehow “waning”. It is really that simple. You don’t like Toyota. I get it. I don’t care for everything they do either. However, I am also not blind and can also discern (without the anti-Toyota bias you’ve shown over the years here) that millions of people perceive Toyotas as reliable and dependable. It was true thirty years ago and it’s true now and that perception has not changed for most people, whether you want to acknowledge that fact or not. 

Edited December 21, 2021 by surreal1272

[surreal1272]

14 hours ago, smk4565 said:

A 200k mile Camry could still be a $10k car,

Cite an actual the year of said Camry that you think would sell for $10K. The only models I have seen (via Autotrader) that can sell for that kind of coin are the hybrid models, which sell for far more new than the regular Camrys. Not one Camry over ten years old sells for anywhere close to $10K with that kind of mileage. 

[Robert Hall]

A search locally turned up a couple 2012-2014 Camry Hybrids around $10k with 130-165k miles, and one 2008 Hybrid with a little over 100k miles.   The lowest mileage seems to be a 2005 w/ only 59k for $9999. 

[oldshurst442]

8 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

A search locally turned up a couple 2012-2014 Camry Hybrids around $10k with 130-165k miles, and one 2008 Hybrid with a little over 100k miles.   The lowest mileage seems to be a 2005 w/ only 59k for $9999. 

like I said...

A used car dealership or a private sale WILL be asking 10 grand for a Camry.  Only a blind, Toyoter fool will fork over that money for one.

HOWEVER, the dealership on a trade will NEVER buy a used Camry for that much...

$10K for a Hybrid Camry with 130-165 k miles?  The dealership will offer to buy that car for 5 thousand...  And not a penny more.  Will probably put it up for sale for $12K...

I wont buy it.

Balthazar will certainly not buy it.

But a blind Toyoter faithful lapdog certainly will.   

The Camry will fall apart on him the very next day, but the fool will certainly ignore the problems and will praise it.  And the reason being is because he had an uncle back in the day 40 years ago in '81 who bought a Chevy and the radio knob fell off and therefore he swore off American cars forever...   

 

 

 

Edited December 21, 2021 by oldshurst442

[balthazar]

11 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

that perception has not changed for most people, whether you want to acknowledge that fact or not.

But I did acknowledge it, 4 posts above yours.

[surreal1272]

11 minutes ago, balthazar said:

But I did acknowledge it, 4 posts above yours.

Saying "Like I said, perception lags" isn't really acknowledging what I am saying here but whatever, quite honestly. There is no perception lag where Toyota is concerned.