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FLY or NO FLY

Sixty8panther

By Sixty8panther
in The Lounge

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What do you think about the "Plane on a Treadmill" question?  

30 members have voted

  1. 1. What do you think about the "Plane on a Treadmill" question?

    • The plane will not FLY
      13
    • The plane will FLY
      12
    • Undecided... confused
      1
    • Undecided, can see both sides
      4

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Sixty8panther Newbie

Sixty8panther

Posted
Posted

Most of you should know what this is all about. :)

Just curious as to what the breakdown is at this point.

http://www.cheersandgears.com/forums/index...?showtopic=9817

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Sixty8panther Newbie

Sixty8panther

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Anyway, the plane won't fly. There's no 'both sides' to it. Sorry.

Look out for the Seven Horsemen... me and Fly agree 100%. :wink:

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CaddyXLR-V Newbie

CaddyXLR-V

Posted
Posted

There are too many unknowns to know the answer. If a treadmill is moving 100,000 mph in the opposite direction of the plane, it could possibly create a strong enough headwind to lift the plane, but that still would depend on other factors such as the surface area of the treadmill.

Or maybe the wheels create more friction, and it would only take 1000mph to counter the force of the engines thrust.

Too many factors to know the answer.

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Sixty8panther Newbie

Sixty8panther

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I knew Fly was an aviation buff but is he a pilot too?

Hmmm... either way I sent you a PM a few min ago. (Fly)

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Newbiewar Newbie

Newbiewar

Posted
Posted

Plane speed and wheel speed do not differ.

but they do!

lets go a different example...

you are standing on top of a log in a rapid river...

and you are running on top of the log,

lets say the rivers current is 10 mph <-----, and you are jumping and running on that log, and its spinning, your running 20 mph ---->

the logs speed is irrelivent, because its spinning freely... but its not 20 mph, and its not 10 mph... i know that

so the faster the tredmill goes, the faster the wheels go...

and as long as the plane is making progress down the tredmil (which it will as long as the tredmil is going slow) the wheels speed will continually be doubling, or going up expedentially... regaurdless of the planes speed...

Um, guys...Fly's a pilot. If he says it won't fly, it won't fly :)

ummm... he didnt design the plane i'm assuming...

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scharmer05 Newbie

scharmer05

Posted
Posted

Plane speed and wheel speed do not differ.

depends on if your talking about plane speed relative to the ground or plane speed relative to treadmill. I believe he was talking about plane speed relative to the ground. Example - Wheel speed 50mph, treadmill from hell 50mph, plane speed 0mph (relative to the ground)

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aaaantoine Newbie

aaaantoine

Posted
Posted

I say we submit this to Mythbusters and let them sort it out in some crazed maniacal way.

So now we've got two threads going on regarding this topic...

In case you didn't see my post in the other thread, I still think this entire conversation is nuts.

This debate has been argued by ENGINEERS, AVIATORS, and PHYSICISTS! Do you think this thread will settle the score?

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zhawk Newbie

zhawk

Posted
Posted

My more important questions are how bad the engines were overtemped and do I have to borescope or just change them, what happened to the wheel speed sensors and the brake temp sensors as the landing gear heated up (do I have to fix those systems too?), and can I call in sick rather than fix this thing after it broke?

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Turbojett Newbie

Turbojett

Posted
Posted

Well, this would be a tough decision after all the crap he's pulled in the past, but I will mercifully allow Fly to stay...even though he can be a real son of a---

***gets pulled aside, assistant whispers something in his ear.***

Oh...the plane on a converyor belt...right...sorry...

strike everything I just said

Anyway, no. There's no way that the plane could fly because the only way that a plane can fly is the speed of the airflow over the wing compared to the speed of the airflow under the wing. If the conveyor is moving at exactly the same speed in the opposite direction as the plane is trying to go, then the plane is just going to stay in one spot, because the variable that allows it to fly is not present.

Not to mention that it would be a horrible waste of jet fuel...

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Turbojett Newbie

Turbojett

Posted
Posted (edited)

well yeah, otherwise it definetly wouldn't fly. The converor would sling it backwards, causing a spoiler effect that would create so much downforce, it'll either rip the wings off or run the plane into the ground.

Edited by Turbojett
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zhawk Newbie

zhawk

Posted
Posted

well yeah, otherwise it definetly wouldn't fly. The converor would sling it backwards, causing a spoiler effect that would create so much downforce, it'll either rip the wings off or run the plane into the ground.

Actually according to the problem, the conveyer won't move if the aircraft doesn't so that means it can just sit there. I am perfectly OK with that. :P

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Sixty8panther Newbie

Sixty8panther

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Seriously, Mythbusters needs to settle this one, although

there is no doubt in my mind the plane is not taking off.

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Sixty8panther Newbie

Sixty8panther

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Posted (edited)

10: NO FLY

4: FLY

Seems like NOS is in the Minority.

Woot, woot, woot-woot! :P

-------------

~ Silvester AKA Chapman

Posted Image

1983 Plymouth Champ: FWD, clamshell hood, 4-banger & 8-speed

passanger seat: XP715, driver's seat: SpeedingPenguin

Edited by Sixty8panther
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Sixty8panther Newbie

Sixty8panther

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The minority won: read the original thread. :AH-HA_wink:

Keep telling yourself that. :stupid::P :wink:

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capriceman Newbie

capriceman

Posted
Posted

I thought i wasnt going to comment on this but now i have actually thought about it and now listening to some people my ears are bleeding.

The plane will not fly How ever if we put it into a Wind tunnel it will.

if convyer goes <--- this way and plane ---> and the jets are on the plane will take off under own thrust and fly away.

If convyer goes<-- this way and plane is facing--> this way with no thrust the plane goes <--that way no flying happening

If convyer goes --> that way and plane facing --->that way the plane lets say Cessna 170 If i remeber achives Flight a 63 knots of airspeed under the wings. So if the Convyer can drag the plane to reache the 63 knots of airspeed the plane will shortly fly then lose airspeed and stall crash on to Convyer and the FAA has to file the most strangest accident report in history.

If I acomplished anything but confusion i will be happy. There need to be movement of Air under the wings to cause the change in pressures to create lift to make the plane fly. Airspeed is the Key factor in this problem. The Convyer speed and wheel speed have nothing to do to make the plane fly.

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capriceman Newbie

capriceman

Posted
Posted (edited)

heres a diagram since we all need pictures.

Posted Image

there needs to be air flowing under the wings. +

and the airflow over the top of the wings needs to be going faster than the airflow underneath, since the topside of the wing arcs up in front.

Thanks forgot that Turbojett

Edited by capriceman
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Sixty8panther Newbie

Sixty8panther

Posted
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Posted

Sss sttt Stud-er maybe? :P

(I'm gong to Hell)

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aaaantoine Newbie

aaaantoine

Posted
Posted (edited)

I've finally decided that I can see it either way.

Assuming that the treadmill succeeds in counteracting the movement of the aircraft, making a net speed of 0 mph, the plane cannot take off.

However, if the aircraft can continue to move forward despite the opposing force of the treadmill, then yes, the plane will eventually take off.

I suppose by my own standards that this officially makes me crazy. :lol:

I think what Mythbusters would probably do is strap a small rocket and a pair of wings to a rollerskate and watch it launch into wall across the testing facility.

I'd bet if they did get their hands on this, they wouldn't be able to prove it either way. This is 100% hypothetical. The technology required to get the treadmill to speed match the aircraft on top of it would probably be too expensive. Unless NordicTrack has something we can use... :scratchchin:

Edited by aaaantoine
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Turbojett Newbie

Turbojett

Posted
Posted

I'd bet if they did get their hands on this, they wouldn't be able to prove it either way.  This is 100% hypothetical.  The technology required to get the treadmill to speed match the aircraft on top of it would probably be too expensive.  Unless NordicTrack has something we can use... :scratchchin:

that's where a treadmill and a small model airplane comes into play.
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