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^ I agree that the exterior isn't a game changer, but disagree; the interior fits the 'luxury' bill fine. What needs to be "coming" is an emergency redesign of the entire exterior.

Bog Gov’t doesn’t decide if things are needed or not, they just spend whenever they can. There’s been a real inversion over the last 50 years in the approach to fiscal responsibility in Gov’t.

That just says come drive me....

That's the wheel that comes only on the Caliente trim. I have e-bay searches out for one in my color.

It may not be real wood, but I'm partial to this for obvious reasons. It's got good style and a comfortable layout. Cars today all try to have that fighter cockpit layout that I think is completely unnecessary and space consuming for anything not named Supra, Camaro, or Mustang. Hip room in modern car is measured in inches.... hip room in my Toronado can be measured in feet.

Uh-huh. 0.20 .cd; same at the pregnant whale EQS.

You are right. The Bolt is simply much too small to replace an Impala or Fusion. A BEV Equinox would be a better replacement.

Tier 1 : Taycan is very slick- Balthy like. Model S hasn't a thing wrong with it exterior-wise, it's just old. Tier 2 : I like the proportions of the Lyriq, but some of the details I do not. Have to see better/more pics, but it's a 'meh' so far. I think the Hummer is a very well-done heritage design, but it's so far outside my realm I have to jack it down. Lucid can go in here; it's not bad, but like I said above... I like the Rivian's exterior other than the front- that's a no-go for me, but I wouldn't call it 'bad'. Not much else worth commenting on. F-150 Lightning is just an altered F-150, it doesn't really 'qualify' as a 'BE design'. - - - - - Oh; no foreign vehicles allowed (to live) in my driveway. So tho from the design perspective I'd rate the Taycan #1, (even disregarding the price), I wouldn't own one. I could live with a Rivian as far as looks go, but the current body configuration is of no use to me.

Be interesting to see if Cadillac ever adds an electric car. I kind of doubt it at this time as I think this is a shrinking field of desire. I think Cadillac did right with the Lyriq.

From the above list, my exterior aesthetics list in order of favorite to least favorite... 1: Porsche 2: Audi 2B: Tesla 2C: Lucid Large Gap 5: Mercedes

Lucid Tesla Porsche Mercedes Even Audi e-tron sedan that is coming to market and pretty much a Porsche with a redesign on the front is better looking than the EQS. I would honestly take an Audi or Porsche over these other cars from a exterior design standpoint, but like @balthazar has stated only American auto's in my driveway. But everyone knows I am an SUV/Truck man, so either Rivian, GM or Ford at this point. So this is my options:

Found this on a Lucid Forum to be of interesting Context for the all glass roof on Rivian and Lucid auto's. A Rivian “guide” (personal sales representative) answered a series of questions posed by a Rivian reservation holder. Some of the answers possibly shed light on some issues that have been raised about Lucid Airs and might help us understand what could be going on at Lucid on these matters. Electrochromic Dimming Glass The technology required for curved glass was too expensive at present. The Rivian glass roof will not have a retractable shade, but Rivian is using a tint that actually blocks more light than electrochromic glass – less than 2% of the total spectrum gets through. (Lucid is making similar claims about the performance of their tint in southwest desert conditions.) Interesting Tech Piece | Lucid Owners - Lucid Motors Forum Then we have a .21 coefficient of drag which makes me think that Mercedes took the easy way out of designing the ugly jelly bean look of the EQS. Lucid Air | Lucid Motors Watch the auto run videos here where you see that the glass roof seems to be electrochromic glass as it darkens or maybe just the way they video'd. They do state the following which makes me think they are taking a tint approach like Rivian. Quote: Glass Canopy A roof with a view. Lucid Air is further opened up by its incredible Glass Canopy. This optional solid glass roof spans the entire cabin almost without interruption – giving everyone in the car a gorgeous view of the sky above. And while it’s crystal clear to your eyes, the Glass Canopy has a slew of protective interlayers to block out heat and sunlight. Lucid Air | Design | Lucid Motors

How do they get abused more than any other commercial vehicle? They idle for 10 hours a day? Drop in a new engine, transmission, AWD system every 50k and it's brand new. The government just loves pissing money away for no GOOD reason.

All of this!! Yes it is and I think you know the answer to that. Hell yes, it'll be hot but at least there you can legally have an "Arizona" tint on your car to mitigate some of that heat. You also know that some folks don't seem to care there either. My cousin had a loaded BLACK Tahoe with a BLACK leather interior that hardly ever spent time in her garage. Some folks are just nuts there lol, us my point. That interior will not stop most potential buyers there.

That terrarium interior would get insanely hot in AZ....and isn't it built there?

Sadly, that was a clean Camaro. I love the rat rod vibe of this. Yeah, Equinox is kind of the sweet spot of where consumer tastes are at the moment. Consider how succesful Hyundai is with their SUV lineup. Actually I like that Era of Benz much more than the current product lineup.

1941 GMC ~

I was mainly just poking fun at the large plastic bezel on the malibu dash on the model where they give you the really smalL screen speaking of those Mercedes like interiors chrysler did it too

Wind tunnel is a factor, which I think they need to throw out the window. Also their lead designer says traditional 3 box sedans will die with EV's because of how thick the floor is with the battery, it makes the vehicle taller and the sedan look doesn't work. Although I am not a fan of jelly bean cars.

Eh, I think if you narrow it down to like 1987ish through 2002ish with allowances for some exceptions that might be true. That was certainly the malaise era for car interiors. But even as bad as most of the 80's powertrains were, the interiors of the mid-lux and up at least had some style even if they weren't made from top end materials.

This is fixed

There's the guy who drove his Volvo P1800 3.2 million miles, but I've yet to see how many engines / transmissions / rears it went thru (other than 'there were rebuilds but it has the original engine block & trans case'). Ford used to run ads for trucks having over a half million miles in the 1940s; a block can handle countless rebuilds, and they even can spray-weld cracked/broken blocks back together.

She says the front (Mach-E) ‘looks generic’ but she likes the rear. Told it’s $43K to start, no real reaction. Wasn’t aware it was electric (upon seeing the pic). When asked if she’d consider one, she said yeah; she’d look at it. When asked if she’d rather this or a Mustang coupe, she said ‘Oh yeah; the coupe’. I told her she’d have to plug it in every other night and she said ‘Oh God, I’d never get anywhere!’ [note; she’s been home from work for about 2.5 hrs, and I just reminded her for the 2nd time her cell is still locked in her car.]

Again, 200 purpose built Suburbans to replace the last ones purchased 5 to 8 years and who knows how many 10s of thousand miles ago, used for security and emergency services is not some government program run amuck. It’s not even really wasteful. They’ve finished their service lives and doing tear down/rebuilds of them like it’s a B52 makes no sense.

In case You needed help seeing it. The point is that the readiness profile of these vehicles is unlike any other in the world. It’s likely that they have 2 or 3 layers of redundant vehicles and cycle them out for overhauls, so if they buy 300 of them only 100 are duty ready at any given time, another 100 are kept on reserve standby, and the other 100 are being overhauled. Can the government spend less money? Absolutely. But this is such a tiny chunk of the budget not even the accountants would notice the difference and replacing 2017 and older vehicles that have been literally flown around the world doesn’t seem like a huge problem to me. Now, if all they did was go back and forth to the golf club for the last 4 years, then you might have an argument.

I have not made it political at all and even earlier I have very clearly stated that all administrations have been extremely wasteful. I have not singled out any political group whatsoever. I'm not saying to buy junk and replace it often. I'm saying they DO NOT buy junk AND they replace it often.

I tend to turn pink then burn. Thus the big floppy hat to protect my bald pate and ample sunscreen. My pasty English genes I guess.

The overall shape of a vehicle has little to do with the drag coefficient. A 1998 Lexus LS or MB E-Class is 0.27. A 1998 Miata is 0.38, 97 Celica GTS is 0.37. Both the Miata and Celica have higher drag coefficients than a 2011 Sienna at 0.309 One of the worst is the G-Class at 0.53 and is only beaten for last place by a Wrangler soft top with the top off at 0.58

I think the Celistiq is intended to have a car-like form.

Seems based on this write up, that Consumer Reports is NO FAN of the Tesla Yoke Steering wheel as they feel there are many safety concerns compared to a traditional circular steering wheel. Gotta say this can come back to bite Tesla in the butt again. Tesla Model S steering yoke is a pain and possible safety concern, says Consumer Reports (greencarreports.com)

Unfortunately I don’t tan much. I just turn salmon color.

But their reliability is more critical

They're also hard on them because they know they'll just get replaced in a few years. It isn't the tax payers' fault they treat their tools for work extra hard because they're careless. They are not abused anymore than any other HD commercial vehicle.

It always strikes me that OEMs / the EPA ignore thick center consoles when measuring "front hip room". Optional Toro wheel above, or from another model?

There were so many black SUVs in the Phoenix area. I bought one..my Jeep..but I did get the black & cream interior. My Jeep just has the factory window tint, not Arizona tint (it was only in AZ a short time, having come from So Cal). I remember a coworker that had an FJ Cruiser and a Highlander, both black w/ black interiors...

the exterior design reminds of infiniti, not in a good way.

A BEV equinox would be a good seller but a blazer size one would be that much more useful. WHOS GONNA BE RESERVING A CADILLAC LYRIQUE THIS WEEKEND

vacation photos of me… also to test that photo uploads are working again.

I saw this today in that exact colour I did a double take as I was immediately reminded of this Its nice to see that the Aztek is an inspiration.

(not a real Mustang) would probably be the answer...

What's the opinion on the Mustang Mach E then?

Could a Rivian R1S perhaps be a useful conveyance for Mrs. Balth (price aside).

I like it for a sedan, but I will likely end up with a Rivian eventually instead

Yes. The use profiles of government security vehicles is substantially different. My Avalanche sat in warehouse the first 7 years of its life only accumulating 12,000 miles in that time. Secret Service vehicles get used and abused.. My Avalanche is still under 28k miles and already had its first set of front brakes because of a stuck caliper from under use. If it weren't for the time limit, my Avalanche would still be under mileage bumper to bumper warranty from GM. But again, what is a minor inconvenience to you and I could be a huge deal to the Secret Service. The standards of reliability are so much different for government than for civilian duty. I have to replace the generator in the building I work and because we have a 911 call center, the specs make it expensive. But as I learned after multiple generator/battery failures this summer, if we're in a situation where we need a generator, we're probably also in a situation where we're getting lots of 911 calls. It's been a major learning experience for me on just how different the reliability requirements are just for local government work. I'd imagine it is equal or higher for the Feds. They're probably already tearing down and rebuilding Suburbans now just to keep them on the road with their requirements.

As @David pointed out, the last time GM built these vehicles was 2017... so yeah, they are reaching the end of their service lives. And also, read between the lines.... this is basically a contract for Secret Service support vehicles. They have a duty profile unlike most any other in the world. The existing vehicles last entered service 5+ years ago. You're correct that they won't get passed down to other departments but they're also such a tiny percentage of the overall federal fleet that they're less than a rounding error. Also, the current administration did not put a timeline on when the fleet conversion would be completed and they were likely informed by GM and Ford (the likely only two bidders on the contract) that there would not be a BEV platform that meets the requirements of the Secret Service (and similar) in time for when the 2017 units need to be retired. Along with these, the government is going to have to replace the aging Fusions and Impalas as they reach the end of their service lives. Bureaucrats driving these cars are going to switch to.... what? What is on the market as a BEV that will: 1. Be a like for like replacement for a Fusion or Impala 2. Be cost effective 3. Be built in the US with US parts As for the need, the standards of reliability are so much higher for the Secret Service that it is more economical to replace the entire vehicle than to do tear down and rebuilds at 50k miles (just a guess on the service interval). You can't have a Suburban breaking down over a bad lifter actuator while the Pope or Queen Elizabeth is visiting. Things that are inconveniences to you and I are international incidents to any administration. We have 50% more police cars than officers on duty at any given time for exactly this reason.

I get what you're saying but this contract is specifically only for "Large Support Utility Commercial Vehicles". Pretty much everything you just mentioned is irrelevant with these new vehicles as they're large commercial vehicles. Knowing how poorly the federal government spends money, I can almost guarantee these are not a NEED and almost 100% a WANT. Nothing more than the government saying one thing and doing another (any administration). https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-solutions/2021/01/28/biden-federal-fleet-electric/

Depending on their purpose, the vehicles they are replacing will filter to other agencies. The Suburbans referenced are likely only for the highest level security detail and the units they are replacing are reaching the end of their lives for front line use... but they'll get passed down to other agencies/departments. When Obama came to office he started the program to replace the government fleet with more efficient vehicles. This was partially to help the domestic auto makers during the financial crisis, but replacing general purpose V8 Crown Vics with 4-cylinder Focus, Fusions, and G6es matched up with the desire for a more fuel efficient fleet. And when you think about it... why do some Dept. of Transportation worker need a 22mpg Crown Vic when at 32 mpg Fusion will do? At the Municipality where I work we repurpose old police vehicles to other departments when possible. We have our own TV station/New Station and the TV Station Director just got a decommissioned Police Explorer with all of the armor removed. When the public works director gets a new truck, her old one goes to one of the lawn crews. A lot of those cars started to age out of the system at the beginning of the prior administration and started to get replaced. That batch will begin to age out by the end of the current administration. The current admin has also not put a timeline on BEV conversion which gives them a lot of wiggle room. But by declaring their intention now, they can encourage manufacturers to get production ramped up to replace those vehicles when the time comes. It won't be the entire fleet all at once like during the financial crisis.

What EV doesn't look bad to you? What one would you allow in your driveway? (Not trying to be a dick, genuinely curious because you seen to greatly dislike most everything new and/or EV)

Do you genuinely believe the United States government is in NEED of these new vehicles, the government that is known to piss money away like no other?

Awesomeness! But Id opt for a 426 Cubic Inch Hellephant motor for that ride. And if all sold out, Id PROUDLY stuff the 'ho-hum' Hellcat motor in it. Not taking away from that build. Its just what I would prefer doing. THAT is an interesting build. Certainly more compelling than a Hellephant or Hellcat swap. Now...about this one: As much as I dont mind electric motors and batteries for the next generation of restoring restomoding the classics, I wouldnt want that 572 cu in motor in a '57 Chevy. If I did, it wouldnt be lowered like that. It have THE classic Hot Rod/muscle car high rear stance. But THAT is not what I would want from MY '57 Chevy. So it would be lowered. NOT with a 572 cubic incher. But with a Corvette 6.2 liter. Yeah, supercharged. C7 ZR1 motor. Or the C7 Z06 motor. Or the in between, the detuned Ct5 Blackwing V. The motor would be as far back to the firewall as possible, suspension parts and brakes from whatever late model Corvette (C5, C6, C7) would be a good fit with an Art Morrison or similar modern chassis so it could be a classic, modern Chevy restomod. The Fuelie cross flag logo would be replaced with the C7 Corvette version on the front fenders. From this: To this: (the C5 Corvette logo) Candy apple red. Pearl white top. Possible polished nickel on the chrome parts. I said possible... But the shiny parts, ALL of them, would be present and accounted for!