ccap41

How many platforms are in the German lineups? Is the 3/4 Series on one? C Class on one? Or do those share platforms with the 5/6 and E Class? I honestly don't know. How many of those V12's have ever been sold? I doubt they are selling THAT many S65's and G65's. It's just an old engine now. That was probably the only way they could justify making it. Make sure they use it for 10 years.

I loved that rear glass that opened up. My dad's Envoy had it as well. ^ The Range Rovers have a tailgate system like that. Glass opens up and the bottom folds down like a truck's tailgate.

I know it's the Euro cycle but if they got 30 miles of EV range that would be bad-ass. I could buy a gas guzzler but never use any gas.

There's one 2-way tailgate out there still... Honda Ridgeline.

Exactly! but when a luxury automaker produces something FWD or FWD based people lose their sh!t over it. Check any thread ever about the Continental for verification, lol.

LOL again with the Benz VS Cadillac? They're just going to start hurting each others' sales instead of increasing their own.

One can like and want a car and still acknowledge its shortcomings. Okay, they BENCH-MARKED the car, then also BENCH-MARKED the dimensions. Blah Blah Blah... The ATS's engines are inferior to the BMW engines. Numbers don't lie. These are autos which there is little to no skill needed to run the best times. Brake torque, foot to floor, ATS is slower. Yes, because that is what they dropped the car with. They released it with a worse engine/trans lineup. Even with the updated tune(I forget which year it was they retuned it for slightly more hp/tq) and the 8spd it is slower than the BMW. I'll give you its a negligible amount at that point but slower is slower and that took how many years to get? BMW handled the ATS's engine lineup for 4 years(?) before they gave it what the BMW already had. I don't think you were in the wrong at all. It sounds like you just stood up for somebody who was being disrespected for absolutely no reason. Good job on your part!

Yeah the Rover had cream colored piping and stitching as a contrast. Definitrly looked better than 100% blue.

Good point. Then, IMO, they should have pushed the release back some.. I just really feel like they needed that at launch.

I get to leave work early today because..protesters... @Frisky Dingo Are you away from that crap? I forget where you've said you work.

I personally love blue leather. I've only been in one vehicle with it but it was awesome. Helps it was a Range Rover.. To each their own.

I didn't say it was an exclusive idea. I even threw out arbitrary numbers of it being in a group of 5. I didn't count or list all of the luxury non-sport sedans but I know they aren't the only one.. isn't the ES, Volvo, 'hatever Acura fits this size' all in a similar group? Sales aren't anything special but theyre a heck of a lot better than the POS MKS that it replaced and the product is 10X better than the MKS as well. What did you expect it to be? This is the first Lincoln to finally take a step away from Ford by FINALLY using different switchgear and a genuine emphasis on luxury amenities. I already mentioned and agreed with cp that it should have gotten the 9spd out of the gate. Whether it be a delay of the product or a speed up of the 9spd development...that should have been a "Need".

Very true! Similar to the 8spd that wasn't originally in the ATS, the 320i wasn't around back then either. So the Cadillac is a bargain? I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing and like you said, it all depends how they're equipped... You could get a base engined car over the price of the optional engined car if one chooses that route.

The thing with the GT is even if you and I had the cash for one... we still wouldn't be able to buy one. It isn't like a 488 or 675 where we can order one and get it. No, there was an application process and a limited run of 500(Or was it 1000 in 4 years?) and they're all spoken for. So while I agree with you.. I don't for that reason only. Had I had the money..I still COULDN'T get one. You only insinuate it every time Cadillac interiors are compared to anything else.

According to YOU it is the better car hands down. Many of the professionals had split decisions. And it is great their first(real) shot at the small sport sedan segment was that great! I'm not knocking their attempt, they made a good product. I'm just saying that they absolutely copied what BMW was doing, because they basically said they were. They absolutely do not have the better engines. n/a V6 without torque vs a severely underrated turbo I6. BMW/s I4 was even better while being severely underrated. Thank god Cadillac finally ditched the garbage 2.5. Not that it was that bad of a motor but it didn't belong in a Cadillac. I4's vs each other was night and day BMW winning. 6's? Same thing. BMW whooped the Cadillac. ATS 2.0T 0-60: 6.3 1/4 Mile: 14.8 BMW 2.0T 0-60: 5.6 1/4 Mile: 14.3 ATS 3.6 0-60: 5.5 1/4 Mile:14.0 BMW 3.0T 0-60: 4.8 1/4 Mile:13.4 http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2012-bmw-328i-vs-2013-cadillac-ats-comparison-test http://www.motortrend.com/cars/bmw/3-series/2012/2012-bmw-335i-2013-cadillac-ats-mercedes-benz-c350-comparison/ Uhhh... When did the ATS ever outsell the 3 Series...? So Lincoln didn't copy a specific car from Cadillac? I didn't think so.

I mean more with cars like the Continental or a Camaro SS(mostly last gen) where yeah they're heavy cars but who really cares? They both do what the're designed to do. If you want the manufacturer to drop tons of cash into the overall weight of the vehicle expect something either way more expensive or more Miata-like where handling is their top priority. People bitch about how the Ford GT isn't as light as it "should" be and to that I say... so what? I know we don't have any comparisons tests(likely because Ford is afraid of not stomping the competition and they won't look good..HATE THAT) but the formula they wrote is a solid one and weighing..50lbs more than fanboys and girls would like makes for a petty argument, if you ask me. House of Cards rocks. I love that show.

1 of 5(as a random estimate) was not in an way insinuating that they are the only ones doing it. I've gotten on them as well for using the wrong transmission. I don't know how but they needed to launch that with the 9spd. I know it wasn't really possible with how things times out but they should have pushed this back or something. That should have been a "Needs to get finished" for it to launch. I will never understand why people care about what a vehicle weighs IF it does its intended goal. Luxury car weighs too much, still does what it needs to accomplish.

I'm not implying they could have at all. They just don't give a $h! to do that. What benefit would they have gotten by trying to make a sport sedan and then being one of like 10 entrants or go the route they did and they're more like 1 of 5. But like you said, they don't even have something to make as a sport sedan so what good would it have done them to hold onto their other $h! for X more years until they finish their D4 platform(or whatever the heck it's called)? Everything is kind of a placeholder until the next, better product comes down the line.. Who knows if Lincoln will ever make real "comeback cars". I think Ford/Lincoln are too big of pansies to allow them to really go nuts.

Sometimes I think you just hate vehicles to hate them because the legroom in a Continental is larger than an S Class.. You see professional athletes 7ft tall in S Classes. S Class Front Legroom: 41.4 inches Rear Legroom: 34.1 inches Continental Front Legroom: 44.4 inches Rear Legroom: 41.3 inches If you don't like the Continental, that's totally cool. Just use something that makes more sense...lol

Who cares though? They made it public that they aren't chasing "dynamic" cars so be it transverse or longitudinally. Why fork out the cash for a different chassis for something so minute to their target audience? If they were pretending to be a sports sedan, you'd be spot on and I'd agree 100%. What are its shortcomings? It isn't a sport sedan(and they're not afraid to hide it)? lol

I thought you already said they're top notch and that there's nothing else that could be done to improve them anyway?

But they didn't create a better product. They created something equally as good. Both have highs and both have lows but, If I'm not wrong, most comparisons was almost a coin flip as to which was better. Caddy had the chassis while the BMW had the engines. My rationale had nothing to do with Lincoln. it was solely the BMW 3 being copied by Cadillac. What did Lincoln make that was within an inch of every exterior measurement of Cadillac while also saying "we're bench marking X Lincoln" ? All of your excuses on why the Continental SHOULDN'T be a good car has nothing to do with why it IS a good car. While it isn't some ground breaking technological advancement(although those seats are pretty damn nifty) they went and did their own thing and said from the beginning what the goal of the car was, and it wasn't to be like another car. Outside of enthusiasts, nobody gives a fck what wheels drive your car. It isn't a sports sedan so why does it matter if it is FWD based or RWD based? I'd bet half of the buyers in this large, luxury car segment don't know if their luxury car is FWD or RWD based, they just get AWD if they want it.

"We appreciate why BMW's 3 Series sedans have been popular for so long. Apparently Cadillac has a similar appreciation, as its engineers make no bones about using the BMW sedan as the benchmark for their new ATS." "How closely did Cadillac emulate BMW? The 3 Series and ATS are within an inch of each other in exterior dimensions except for the BMW's 1.3-in. longer wheelbase." "Cadillac emulated the 3 Series' packaging, but might have been better off its back seat were a bit more spacious. Set the four seats for 6-foot-tall folks and the ATS is tight in back. Yes, there are tens of thousands of 3 Series sold that prove this may not actually be a problem, but another inch of rear seat legroom would have been nice in the ATS." "The fun part is the Caddy/BMW comparo. Start with both company's 2.0-liter dohc direct-injected fours: Cadillac's puts out 272 bhp, while the BMW generates 240 bhp. Both engines produce 260 lb.-ft. of torque. " "Is the new Cadillac ATS as good as a BMW 3 Series? Remember "the same, only different?" The pair does share quite a bit—in everything from overall size and drivetrains to intent. They are remarkably close." http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/first-drives/reviews/a18340/2013-cadillac-ats-1/ Heck, I think the exteriors look great on their new stuff as well.

They were open about making a 3 Series w/ a Cadillac badge on it. It's not the same when you're entering a market and publicly bench marking something and you build said vehicle within an inch everywhere. Mustang and Camaro were never THAT physically close to each other. Look at you taking shots at somebody who WANTS an ATS. Sorry brochacho, some ppl don't think Cadillac(or any company) is perfect. Lincoln brand is copying Cadillac brand? In what way?!? Cadillac builds sports sedans and Lincoln...doesn't.

@Cubical-aka-Moltar I completely agree. The competition is too tight with all of the sport sedans right now that it would be tough to even crack the segment so what else do you do? Make your own. And this isn't even making a segment it's bringing back what they used to be.