FUTURE_OF_GM

So last year the media shouting was "Good product is king" but now it's all about "Good product and marketing" Lets just face it... Detroit is as good as dead. The media is nothing more than a cat playing with a half dead mouse and Wall Street is nothing more than a parasite feasting on a carcass. GMNA GME Yeah... because the Solstice, Solstice Targa, G8, G8 ST, Vibe and GXP programs aren't relevant product AT ALL. Not to mention the G6 that consitently sells 1) MORE than the newer and 'better' Aura and 2) Sells to people who are my age (READ: The future of GM) instead of jaded boomers who don't give a $h! about GM to begin with. And the constant barrage of Pontiac media during prety much ALL sporting events isn't relevant marketing. Yeah, because the newest Pontiacs don't embody that spirit at all Yeah, because Bob Lutz, you know, the man in charge, does neither.

Phasing out Pontiac in favor of Saturn is probably the dumbest thing I've heard since "Achey Breaky Heart" I hope GM and GME fail miserably if they are this short sighted.

No it doesn't... And you can chalk the lesser outcry up to 2 things. 1) Pontiac is FINALLY getting very competitive, legitimate product. 2) The media has made the prophecy a truth... If you read omething so many times, you'll begin to believe it. Given the track record of the Opels at Saturn (sales suck, comparatively and haven't been good since intro. Even the Vue was slow at first) and the expense of the divisions in general (Saturn is a dedicated channel, Pontiac is a small piece of a shared channel) and the equity (Pontiac has MUCH more equity than Saturn, which will take TONS of marketing to make relevant to more than the few people it was relevant to yet lost in the transition) and the positive reception of the recent Pontiac product. (The G8 is a success, the G6 was better received in the market than the Aura, the Solstice was a success, the Vibe is a success, the Torrent did well) GM would be remiss to phase Pontiac out just to appease a few people who can't see the bigger picture. These same people somehow think that GM will make up (Or Ford for that matter) whatever sales they lose from the cancellation of these divisions and will transfer whatever customers these divisions appeal to into other divisions. It's not going to happen in this market. If Detroit is dumb enough to just hand share and customers to the asians (which is excatly what a lot of these 'experts' want) then Detroit deserves to die. Buick is expanding, GM announced that this year. Yeah... I'm about done with GM and their squandering ignorance as well. Hell no... Better yet; sell Saab and move Saturn upmarket (Because, hell, GM is having to completely reposition Saturn anyway) and then move Pontiac into Saturns position.

This means 1 of 3 things. 1) Pontiac WILL eventually die. 2) Pontiac will become the Scion-esque performance brand that evok alluded to a few years ago 3) Pontiac will offer a mix and continue to be a 'compromised' brand either for the sake of CAFE or the sake of volume. I'm fine with Pontiac being a mixed brand as long as the mission to become a performance division still exists. Performance is much more than RWD and Pontiac could certainly benefit from younger buyers via an EVO competitor or a Mini competitor. I agree and disagree... My gut fully agrees with you. However, the imports get away with this sort of thing and it is very cost effective. I just hope that GM hasn't given up on making Cadillac a premier brand to compete with the likes of MB and BMW as well as RR and Bentley (eventually) the aspirations of Cadillac and Pontiac as divisions should remain VITAL to the organization. My question is this; what if the new Omega will be a hybrid platform of sorts for the premium divisions? Much like Theta-Epsilon relates to Theta, Omega may relate to Zeta. For example; the Cadillac and Saab small utes are Theta-Epsilon while the Vue, Terrain and 'Nox all appear to ride Theta. I agree 110% GM seems to be so ignorant sometimes.... Hopefully they're not as dumb as we think. On a related note... Maybe this is why CPF (GMEs resident asshole) would not cooperate with Holden on Zeta and thus cancelled the Insignia concept (production version) he wanted Sigma to live and didn't support Zeta for political reasons.

So, basically what I predicted and you confirmed a few months ago is actually unfolding. This makes perfect sense given what PCS has said. I'm not so sure it's a bad thing as long as GM stills uses Holden expertise and experience in the RWD arena. Not to mention, GMNA core products (development) seem to be quickly losing significance. How does that factor in to all of this? GMNA needs a reason to exist to maintain control, therefore RWD development might be that reason. Has Zeta been so much of a failure internally that it was the final straw for Holden? It benefitted them and will benefit NA for a few years, but at what cost and why were there "competing" RWD platforms at GM in the first place? And does this justify all of the rumors we've heard over the years about Sigma and Zeta being related? How does GME factor in again? They haven't developed any of the RWD platforms. Sure, they need Cadillac to suceed in order to justify their continued existence, but development of Zeta and Sigma hasn't been tied to GME AFAIK. Agree and disagree... Alpha is ideal for Pontiac, but Alpha will not suffice for Camaro if V8s are locked out of the program.

I agree 100%... Hell, maybe they did sell out, but at least they didn't put out the same rehashed $h! 9 times over. (*cough*SLAYER*cough*) Personally, I love the black album and the Load albums. Of course, I love blues rock too and the lyrics of the Loads are a big draw to me, that's when Jaymz was in therapy the first time. They're very dark and very much my personality. I think MOP is probably the best thrash album ever made, but Justice is probably my favorite MetallicA album because of the angst. I mean, the album starts out with a song that talks about the death of the world and then transitions into a song that is an anti-government political statement, then transitions into a song talking about being anti-PC. What more could I ever want?!?! I would agree that St. Anger is their worst effort to date and the band has acknowledged that they feel the same way. However, I like St. Anger for what it is: A balls to the wall thrash album that is meant to make a statement that "Hey, we can still do this."

I thought seriously about making the switch to Zaino. I use the tan bottle Meguiars polish and I can tell a difference.

The actual wax does need to dry, because it is for protecting the paint. So it needs to stay on there. The Polish and Cleaner is not meant to protect the paint and as a result does not need to stay on the paint and doesn't need to dry.

That's funny... You know, because St. Anger isn't pure THRASH metal or anything I think a lot of people are just jealous of their success. Like them or not, you can't deny that they are one of the most successful bands ever and that they basically DEFINED a genre of music. Then you get the music snobs who believe that everything has to be unbelievably technical to be "good music" For example, Dragon Force, which by-in-large SUCKS but is extremely technical. Then you just get the metalheads who rebel for the sake of rebeling (After all, that's what it's all about, right?) For me; the more people that hate MetallicA, the better. I never liked being a part of the "cool kids" anyway.

Same story, different day... We heard this same song and dance when Kerkorian tried to downsize and destroy GM. We're SERIOUSLY talking about selling a brand over a 4% decline... C'mon guys... You can find better ways than this to put Ford out of business. I've only been screaming this for 4 years now. And therein lies the potential and/or EQUITY that I have been talking about A-L-L A-L-O-N-G! LOL.... Saturn is FAR and AWAY from one of GM's strongest brands. However, the way Saturn is set up has GM over a barrel and GM knows it. Therefore Saturn is it's own channel. Yes, exactly... Ford will fix Volvo until they are forced to downsize again (in an attempt to ultimately kill the company) by the street and the media. Ford is becoming really good at being USED for their resources to restore ailing import brands and then sell them. Europe can thank our media for wrapping enough of a stigma around the domestics that our consumers will allow them to drain resources and begin anew, yet will not buy them because they are "owned by [insert rustbelt company here] Just look at Aston, LR and Jag... They're in better shape now than they've ever been, and now they will prosper under new owners while Ford dies. One that was shunned until Japan Inc. adopted it. And now, eventhough Japan Inc. does it, apparently the domestics are still "badge engineered" despite sharing any sheet metal.

Here we f*ckin' go again... And no surprise that it's Business Week that's starting sh*t again.

That's cool... I'd like a RWD Impala, but oh well, this sounds great. Lets hope the G8 coupe has better styling than the G8 we have now.

The V8 options in these cars and trucks does not make up the bulk. Cars don't have to be FWD Opel-GMDAT $h!boxes to get good fuel economy. I hope GM realizes that. And BTW, those Opels and GMDATs sure as hell aren't lighting the sales charts on fire here in the states.

The album UNITED ABOMINATIONS by Megadeth. My first actual Megadeth purchase. VERY good album! Stand out tracks = "Sleepwalker", "Washington Is Next", "United Abominations", "Blessed Are The Dead", "Amerikhastan" and "Burnt Ice"

Step 1: Merguiars Paint Cleaner applied with a clean terry towel. (1 coat) -- Do not allow to dry. Step 2: Meguairs Show Car Glaze applied with a clean terry towel. (2 coats, each 'worked into' the paint) -- Do not allow to dry. Step 3: Meguiars Gold Class Wax applied with applicator, but in a linear fashion as opposed to circles to avoid 'swirling' (1 or 2 coats) Allow to dry. Step 4: Meguiars Quick Detailer applied with a clean terry towel. This is to remove any left over residue from the wax. Do not allow to dry. I use terry towels because microfiber cloths are NOT guranteed not to scratch.

Funny... You seem to be the only person that insists CPF will take Lutz place. God help us if that happens... At least we'll have a few good used cars to buy while CPF runs the corporation into the ground. What a poser...

Umm, yeah that...... Or it could be the fleet sales Leadership that allows programs like the W-Body to hang around at GM for years on end are the same "leaders" who have damaged the company so badly. Here's to hope that this leadership is kept on a different continent.

True that As far as the WSJ... They've been avid Detroit haters for years, what makes any of you think they intend to stop? Detroit has made competitive, and dare I say, excellent (in some segments) vehicles for years. Yet the media continues it's tirade. And it will until there is no Detroit to profit from.

Or, just like in the 90s, GMNA is whoring out GME for development purposes. Remember when Opel thrived? Remember when GM milked it for all it was worth? History does indeed repeat itself.

Consumer taste changed. The media saw their opportunity and launched a war to "pile on" And now CAFE is the political silver bullet (definitely planned) to keep the automakers from getting up off of the mat. Ford will kill Mercury and fade into irrelevance, Chrysler will be whored out to the Chinese and GM will continue to build cars no one wants (with the help of GME) until they are kicked to death by consumers and the media.

It's a possible 5-15% reduction in fuel economy. But a lot of that is because it's a compromised motor that runs on both fuels. If we had actual Ethanol fueled motors, it might not be as much and it would be WAY better for performance.

Simple.. The corporations are too big for us to enforce them now. They have us by the balls because if we try tto break up ExxonMobil or any other company, they can just say; "To hell with you guys, we'll go sell all of our product to China." And that would leave us even more screwed. The "mergers" and "big business" and "globalization" have been out of control for so long that they can now run the government for their benefit. And if they don't have the ability to do that, they can get a political "partner" via the many countries we owe money to put the pressure on.

These are great!! BTW, that tree is beautiful in the first pic!

Same thing happened here... A college aged guy (Not sure which of the schools he was from) was drinking one night up town and disappeared. As far as I know, his body was never found though. These people are cowards. Stuff like this is why I seldom, if ever, get drunk in public. I don't trust "people" at all. I'm just waiting for the day someone like this tries to harm me, I'll make them regret that they were ever born.

Get used to it. He's such a valuable source of information This Astra is ugly, BTW. Typical Opel/GME "Toyota wannabe" trash.