ZL-1

GM RWD Update: FWD Impala remains, Zeta to merge with Sigma

178 posts in this topic

It makes a lot of sense. Why have two platforms for two cars of the same layout and size?

Put premium components into the premium car (better engine, more tech, lighter parts), and folks will be happy.

Yeah, I agree.

What I'd like to read about next is the gossip/power-struggle side of this: Who gets to develop this SigmaII/ZetaII thing? Will Cadillac and Holden collaborate, or will one of them get this and/or the Alpha development?

Edited by ZL-1
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That's cool...

I'd like a RWD Impala, but oh well, this sounds great.

Lets hope the G8 coupe has better styling than the G8 we have now.

Edited by FUTURE_OF_GM
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Oh wow... it's like GM is learning something from Ford. Take a premium platform <DEW98> and modify it with less expensive bits to make an inexpensive car <Mustang>.

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This is not a disagreeable decision. The consolidation of Sigma and Zeta in the future was always an inevitable possibility. It makes sense from a cost-perspective, as well.

Not to mention that there is the possibility of the ability to bolt-on some higher-end parts from the Cadillac models onto something like the NG G8 Coupe.

I also hope that this NG Global Rear-Drive Architecture (lets call it "Omega" shall we? :AH-HA_wink: ) allows for diesel and hybrid options and a combination of both options as well.

While it would have been nice to have a rear-drive Impala, I suppose if this front-drive model offers a different flavor and is larger in size in comparison to the Malibu, it could work out just fine. And there is always hope for a big rear-drive Chevrolet sedan (Caprice?).

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Maybe I'm in a religious mood today, but this quote feels appropriate if indeed GM is working on having a small and a large RWD/AWD platform in the pipeline:

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

Revelation 22:13

Edited by ZL-1
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Maybe I'm in a religious mood today, but this quote feels appropriate if indeed GM is working on having a small and a large RWD/AWD platform in the pipeline:

Revelation 22:13

About a year or so ago AH-HA posted that, which was our first hint of Alpha. Perhaps it was the first hint of Omega, as well.

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About a year or so ago AH-HA posted that, which was our first hint of Alpha. Perhaps it was the first hint of Omega, as well.

I remember, I remember. :AH-HA_wink:

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zeta has steel suspension components in the rear at least, if i am correct. can you say BRICK? no wonder its heavy.

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GME and Cadillac are the best of friends, so you I think you should be able to tell who will develop it. :AH-HA_wink:

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GME and Cadillac are the best of friends, so you I think you should be able to tell who will develop it. :AH-HA_wink:

So next time around Holden will be using the platform that was developed elsewhere, rather than Holden developing a platform that is used elsewhere, as is the case now? So now Holden is just becoming another brand like Vauxhall... I guess that is ok provided the product from GME/GMNA is as good as it is from Holden. The change would make more sense to me if GME was already the one that did Zeta, though. Why change the global RWD homeroom from Holden to GME/GMNA if Holden is already doing a world-class job?

I don't see much difference between these two corporate structures:

1:

Global FWD (mini, small, mid): GME

Large trucks, SUVs, crossovers: GMNA

Small to mid-size trucks, SUVs, crossoovers: GMNA/GME

Global RWD (Alpha, Omega): Holden

2:

Global FWD (mini, small, mid): GME

Large trucks, SUVs, crossovers: GMNA

Small to mid-size trucks, SUVs, crossoovers: GMNA/GME

Global RWD (Alpha, Omega): GME/GMNA

You still have the same amount of platforms to develop, it would seem to me, and having more stuff done at one place (GME) seems like it spreads resources rather thinly, unless more people are hired/moved from Holden or elsewhere. It's not as if Holden currently has a RWD platform and GME has their own RWD platform of similar size and the two are going to be consolidated into one (in which case moving it to either GME or Holden would make sense). Just moving it for the sake of moving it seems unnecessary, especially considering the job Holden has done with RWD.

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I'm not so sure that this is really news.

We've known for a long time now that sigma was on its way out, and I believe that I've read that Zeta is actually the superior platform.

So, this might just be semantics rather than big news.

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I'm not so sure that this is really news.

We've known for a long time now that sigma was on its way out, and I believe that I've read that Zeta is actually the superior platform.

So, this might just be semantics rather than big news.

If that were the case, then Sigma would just die. GME & especially Cadillac didn't want that to happen. Zeta being a superior platform, well that depends on who you talk to. It is cheaper to build though, I will say that. Sigma is the superior platform but cost to much to build. The logical solution was to merge the cheaper to build Holden platform with the superior Cadillac platform to get the unholy 3 way love child of (GME, GM Holden and Cadillac). Cadillac whispers in GME's ear to get what it wants or needs. GME listens to Cadillac because they need them to produce quality vehicles for Europe. Well at least it will be interesting to watch what happens. :AH-HA_wink:

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If that were the case, then Sigma would just die. GME & especially Cadillac didn't want that to happen. Zeta being a superior platform, well that depends on who you talk to. It is cheaper to build though, I will say that. Sigma is the superior platform but cost to much to build. The logical solution was to merge the cheaper to build Holden platform with the superior Cadillac platform to get the unholy 3 way love child of (GME, GM Holden and Cadillac). Cadillac whispers in GME's ear to get what it wants or needs. GME listens to Cadillac because they need them to produce quality vehicles for Europe. Well at least it will be interesting to watch what happens. :AH-HA_wink:

Sigma was history anyway - no way GM would keep both endlessly. This was an obvious thing years ago. The way I understand it, Sigma simply uses higher grade materials but the dynamics don't outdo Zeta.

Also, Zeta has already changed in the form of the version going under the Camaro, a form of the architecture that Holden will also soon adopt. So, I just don't see any news here.

Basically, sigma goes away and Zeta get a few expensive bits for the Caddy versions.

NBD.

The "merging" thing is just fluff for Caddy to keep that sense of being "exclusive" as it was with sigma.

What really matters now are the particulars on Alpha.

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Sigma was history anyway - no way GM would keep both endlessly. This was an obvious thing years ago. The way I understand it, Sigma simply uses higher grade materials but the dynamics don't outdo Zeta.

Also, Zeta has already changed in the form of the version going under the Camaro, a form of the architecture that Holden will also soon adopt. So, I just don't see any news here.

Basically, sigma goes away and Zeta get a few expensive bits for the Caddy versions.

NBD.

The "merging" thing is just fluff for Caddy to keep that sense of being "exclusive" as it was with sigma.

What really matters now are the particulars on Alpha.

I think you might be surprised by how little Zeta there is in the new platform. It will be way less than you think.

As for Alpha, I don't see it being developed in OZ. I don't see a Pontiac version of Alpha either, however I do see a Chevrolet version of Alpha, the next generation of the Camaro should be Alpha if my Magic 8 ball is working correctly! :AH-HA_wink:

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I think you might be surprised by how little Zeta there is in the new platform. It will be way less than you think.

As for Alpha, I don't see it being developed in OZ. I don't see a Pontiac version of Alpha either, however I do see a Chevrolet version of Alpha, the next generation of the Camaro should be Alpha if my Magic 8 ball is working correctly! :AH-HA_wink:

Not giving Alpha to Pontiac indicates non-functional brain cells in the heads of whatever execs are pushing such a silly agenda.

The next Camaro should be on Alpha though - perfect fit.

As for Zeta content in the new platform - that wasn't really what I was talking about. But, I'd venture a guess that little or no Sigma will be found there. Which is as it should be considering sigma's age.

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Not giving Alpha to Pontiac indicates non-functional brain cells in the heads of whatever execs are pushing such a silly agenda.

The next Camaro should be on Alpha though - perfect fit.

As for Zeta content in the new platform - that wasn't really what I was talking about. But, I'd venture a guess that little or no Sigma will be found there. Which is as it should be considering sigma's age.

That's because GM is about to rip Pontiac's RWD performance persona from the brand. You should be hearing more on that soon.

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Not giving Alpha to Pontiac indicates non-functional brain cells in the heads of whatever execs are pushing such a silly agenda.

I think no Alpha to Pontiac is because there probably won't be a Pontiac in BPG within 5 years..

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The important thing we have learned from this news is that there is a future for rear-drive vehicles at General Motors, after the expiration of the Zeta and Sigma platforms.

On a personal note, that is what really matters to me; seeing that great, globally competitive rear-drive vehicles do have a future at one of my favorite automakers. I would like to have the option of having at least one GM vehicle in my driveway for my lifetime.

I also believe that Holden engineers could (and I stress that word) be involved with Alpha and Omega and that they are not just being shut out for those two projects. I have noticed that the Australians from GM Holden are finding work with other projects, like the new Invicta. And when it comes to rear-drive vehicles, Holden engineers are a fountain of knowledge regarding the matter; they have developed Zeta's first realization, VE, and have re-engineered various top-end, rear-drive Opels since 1978 multiple times. They focused a lot of their efforts on rear-drive just as GMNA and GME were abandoning it. It does not make total sense to shut them out. It could (again, stress on that word) be that GM Holden, instead of being a major branch of GM like GMNA or GME, is being fully incorporated and integrated into the two current main powerhouses of General Motors, GMNA and GME, and the resources from GM Holden are being spread out between the two. Just a thought.

Edited by YellowJacket894
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That's because GM is about to rip Pontiac's RWD performance persona from the brand. You should be hearing more on that soon.

Even more stupid.

Brain death describes it perfectly.

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... and don't say buy a Cadillac instead - that will never happen.

Beyond stupid.

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