FUTURE_OF_GM

Idealistically, I'd love a unique model. But the money just isn't there... Maybe we could use this one as a starting point (since Trans Ams have ALWAYS been accepted as "better Camaros" anyway) and then make them more unique as time goes on.

Excellent read! I'd buy one the second it rolled off the trailer. Enjoy! http://www.autoextremist.com/current/2009/...oextremist.html

Me either... It's just a way of making it that much harder to make a comeback. RE: Wagoner... I like the guy, but I'm of the mindset (and have been for a while) that both he and most of the GM board should be ousted. But the question remains; who in their right mind would take the job?

Another one liner that has been 'developed' into front page material.

1) Chrysler has nothing to lose.. They're toast either way. The media is focusing on breaking GM. 2) Chrysler is private.

My thoughts exactly... Not only has GM been bombarded with bad press in general, they've also already pissed the Canadians off by killing a truck plant, threatened to pull out of Canada entirely AND decided to reduce Canadians beloved Pontiac to a niche division. It's a damn wonder GM sold ANY cars up there this month.

So... Apparently the G8 line outsold ALL of Scion this month. Anyone still believe that Pontiac isn't important? And, BTW, the G8 also outsold the Aura. But no surprise, since the G8 has faired better than most other GM cars through this downturn. (I'm just sayin' Shows what a little bit of marketing can do)

I think a C&G reality show would score BIG ratings! Ironically, I can't help but look at Detroit and think of the neighborhood I live in now... At one time, it was impoverished and crime ridden. A wealthy couple came in and bought the majority of the historic buildings and started the movement to revitalize the place. Fast forward 10 years later and it's Charlottes ONLY arts district which encompasses multiple restored historic structures and where small mill houses sometimes sell for $500,000. It's very sad that america pisses on it's history like this.

I call There's no way a lowly Chevy could get past 100,000 miles... You must've rebuilt the motor 3 times or altered the mileage. (Just having a little fun...) Keep up the good work/representation of GM!

Detroit is rich in both architectural and automotive history. It would be a MECCA for me if the climate didn't suck so badly. It's a shame that the city is in such bad shape when it could be a beautiful homage to some of what made america great.

True that. One of the main reasons I listen to MetallicA is James voice. I especially love it during the Load era. James voice/vocals OWNS most other bands, including Megadeth. He's a pretty good singer considering he wasn't supposed to be the singer. His voice has gotten higher pitched again though, since he 1) stopped smoking/drinking and 2) is actively trying to sing in a higher octave on some things. (SEE: All Nightmare Long) I, however, like the lower stuff better. I agree... It was very hard for me to watch that documentary. I feel as though these guys saved my life at one point. But after seeing Some Kind of Monster, I think I would've punched James in the face. and locked Lars in the closet and starved him to death. Their egos got TOO big. I loved Jason. Had James not been around, Jason would've been my favorite. I'm in that same boat, in a way. I began listening to MetallicA around '98. St. Anger was the first album release that I had been through with them. That's awesome... I think Dave is a cool guy (Now that he's sobered up) I've heard of many cool things like this he's done. I think it'd be cool to chill with him someday. I remember when James was in rehab and Dave kept posting on the MetallicA BB to give us some optimism. Even now, some of the sh*t that James/MetallicA says in regard to Jason/Dave irks me. Dave is an amazing musician and I'm very proud to say I'm a Megadeth fan and that I've had the pleasure of being a part of that experience. Personally, I think Dave should be joining MetallicA on stage to be inducted into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame later this year. Last I heard, Jason has an open invite (as does Bob Rock) but Dave does not. That's bull$h! IMO. I'm also really getting sick of Slayer bashing MetallicA. Just the other day (after MetallicA pushed hard for Slayer to be included in Guitar Hero: MetallicA) Tom (Slayer's lead singer) was talking $h! about the new MetallicA album, saying it was monotonous and boring (ahem.. Yeah, keep in mind that all of Slayer's stuff sounds the same for 20 years now) based on ONE song he had "suffered" through from the new album. Give me a break James has whispered about wanting to do a "Bay Area Thrash Reunion Tour" which would presumably include MetallicA, Slayer, Anthrax, Testament, Exodus and Megadeth. I'd be ALL OVER something like that!!!!

I used to love "The Rest Of The Story" Memories....

Care to back that OPINION up? (Oh wait, I forgot, you don't actually back your opinions up with anything) Okay... So an unsuccessful PLATFORM in both NA and Europe (Read: core components, not interior trim) is the fault of GMNA? You need to change YOUR bias against GMNA.. What's next? They kill babies on the weekend? Yeah, what they COULD change. Interior, exterior and shock tuning. WOW! I've been all for the Vectra (as a Saturn) for years now. However, the fact that Opel NEEDS to export in order to justify it's existence SAYS A LOT about it's home team and acceptance in it's core market. Opel, like GMNA, was JUST beginning to put out decent products right before the market meltdown. So THAT'S why the G6 got all of those EXCELLENT reviews (about it's sloppy and heavy chassis) LOL, Do you just believe anything you read? I'd have lots of fun with you... So; let me get this straight... The OLD Epsilons were BAD because GMNA dumbed them down... However, the SAME (albeit recalibrated) platform that went through THE SAME process from GMNA (except with better appeal on the consumer interface) is successful and (of course, god forbid we be pro GMNA) somehow ATTRIBUTED to german engineering? That's smells like bias, to me.... BLINDING as it may be. :rotflmao:

Wow.. You guys are GREAT GM enthusiasts Keep up the good work!!!

Pontiac doesn't produce crappy cars... (At least according to people on this board and the media -- the G6 is the same thing as a Malibu, remember? ) And what exactly is so "crappy" about the G8, Solstice, G6 and Vibe? (I'll give you G3 and G5... Torrent is negotiable; at the time it was introduced, it was hailed as better than the Equinox) My point is (Bear with me; I know this is hard for some simple minds on the board to understand) IMAGE The media (news and pop culture) CREATED the image that Pontiac = trailer trash as well as the image that *ALL* Pontiacs ever built were and are crap. If that's NOT the case, then someone (anyone of you market gurus) tell me why the products aren't selling? Do you think that Joe/Jane Public gives half a $h! about most of the stuff we debate here? Then, why isn't Joe/Jane Public buying a Pontiac that is comparable or BETTER than their japanese company of choice. (ALL of us here know that the Japanese companies produce appliances that are pretty inferior in the grand scheme of things these days)

Depends on how the media 'spins' the switch... (Gotta add my :twocents:)

CELEBRATE!!!! "We've finally killed the rust belt and the companies/amazing amount of history that it includes!" I'd love to live in Detroit (because of all the old $h!) if it weren't so far north. With my depression and Detroit winters, I'd off myself in under 2 years.

I think the blame lies with both GM and the market... The financial firms DEFINITELY share in the blame (a lot) However, had this not happened, how long would it have taken GM to slowly die? GM's corporate culture is HORRIBLE. And unless that changes, all the marketing/phenominal product/bailouts/whatever won't help them. Maybe, JUST MAYBE, this "crisis" will be GM's saving grace. Either through very dedicated government support, something to scare the hell out of the leadership and bring them to their senses OR even something to wake americans up and educate them about THE WHOLE STORY. Even the most anti-Detroit consumer KNOWS why GM's products have been bad now. The result of all this negative press has, at the very least, informed the consumer. And it might even cause them to give a refocused GM a fighting chance (as long as the company is STABLE enough to prove it can continue)

Last time I checked, the number 3 best seling brand out of 8 DID qualify as core.

Realistically, it seems to me that GM is doing JUST what PCS hinted at 6 months ago. They're attempting to restructure the company so that GMNA can implode on it's own. I bet they'll do the same thing with Holden. (GMDAT is already in this situation) It's not a bad move, so long as GM retains CONTROL of the separate entities.

LOL, I know, right? The current Epsilon and Delta sure as $h! didn't light the world ablaze with their glory.

Well, at least we know where you got your sense of corporate culture from...

It's pretty obvious that I was NOT referring to product reviews. I don't balme everything on them media. I merely make sure that people know how they affect things. And if you think they don't affect every aspect of the situation, we as a country, are in today then you're living under a rock. I don't "cope" with anything... I saw the writing on the wall 3 years ago. (Read my posts from then when I was predicting the downfall of the big 3 as well as the downfall of this country)

Excellemnt post! Hence my saying in Novemebr that if we're going to unite, we need to do it now before it's too late. And hence my saying that the "melting pot" effect will NEVER allow us to unite like we once did.