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"ASC", is that as in American Sunroof Corporation? If so, I love it. They might have the wherewithal to pull this off.
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that's actually pretty danged HOT. And if Pontiac is going to be truely made into a performance niche, a car like this is very fitting.

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Nice car, but the big news for me is the possibility of GM's scrapping of the 4.5L diesel, which would be the biggest load of 'stupid' on their part, or the US government's.

Edited by Captainbooyah
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Oh look, another Pontiac based one a Chevy, and you can tell which one it's based off of too. Although the Camaro is far more badass than the Cobalt, turning them into Pontiac is by changing the fascia and a few interior bits is a no no. That's not how you save a brand. The Firebird should look completely unique, IMO.

Also I don't care for the render. The front looks like an odd mix of old and new, with old being tacked onto the new, and the rear just looks like a tacky 90's Pontiac concept.

That won't save Pontiac.

My :twocents:

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I like the idea. But the Oldsmobile guy in me sees more '68 Toronado than '72 Firebird in that front clip. Good looking either way

17232701.jpg

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A Burt Reynolds 'Banditized' model would woo a few nostalgia buffs.

Then I'd like to see SLP do a number on it.

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Very Interesting and a solid debate issue for our group. I personally like the look but needs a few tweaks and like DF said, it should be unique to the brand not a rebadge.

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Idealistically, I'd love a unique model.

But the money just isn't there... Maybe we could use this one as a starting point (since Trans Ams have ALWAYS been accepted as "better Camaros" anyway) and then make them more unique as time goes on.

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Great article. I would get a T/A over a Camaro anyday. Either way my son or I will own one of the "two" cars since the 'Bird is unlikely it will be a Camaro.

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Idealistically, I'd love a unique model.

But the money just isn't there... Maybe we could use this one as a starting point (since Trans Ams have ALWAYS been accepted as "better Camaros" anyway) and then make them more unique as time goes on.

That is the problem. You spend money on a half assed rebadge...which is what GM has been criticized for for years AND on a niche product. Neither will save Pontiac. I would rather see the money spend on fixing the Solstice's flaws and on actual adverting for the Solstice and G8 than on a rebadge of a car only diehard fans will care about.

If Pontiac (and GM) were to survive and make a profit again, then put the money down for a unique Firebird.

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omg, i have never seen that toronado before posted above, it is very slick and nicely done, very progressive and even very current. but to the post at hand, this is a case where good engineering and a good package are the basis for a good car. this is a case when a pure rebadge with differing sheetmetal that is used to create brand identity is right. this would be the right move. it's a shame that GM is adamant on no Camaro-firebird this time around because of the rebadge 'stigma' yet it's perfectly acceptable with the flimsy G3. that model is certainly worth repeating. rebading was never the problem, it's starting with a good solid base, offering a good reason for that model to exist, supplementing the brand and helping build the brand, and striving for different content so as to avoid overlapping entities and competing with one's self. for now, just differentiating the sheetmetal would be enough of a basis for me to call this solid business. it builds pontiac's brand, volume could be limited, it's very good looking, supplements Zeta's volume a tad, but most of all this is brand identity and recognition. people recognize trans am, recognize the looks, know what this stands for, and know what good thing it brings. if it could help some others into the pontiac line that otherwise wouldn't look at camaro or pontiac, then it's a solid run both ways. the future could bring more profit for more distinctive features and content.

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i like this rendering....a lot. the only part that is excessive and unartful are the rear taillamps, but i don't know a more direct way of connecting pontiac's history. perhaps a simple rectangle which would be less differentiated but still in line with the original firebird. the current rendering shows lamps that are too cartoonish. the front end is sober and aggressive on the same token, simply re-drawing a distinct and extreme charicature the original had that worked and was never overdone, as the firebird became in latter years.

It's too bad there isn't enough money to draw on a rich history of design language pontiac has had.

Edited by turbo200
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i like this rendering....a lot. the only part that is excessive and unartful are the rear taillamps, but i don't know a more direct way of connecting pontiac's history. perhaps a simple rectangle which would be less differentiated but still in line with the original firebird. the current rendering shows lamps that are too cartoonish. the front end is sober and aggressive on the same token, simply re-drawing a distinct and extreme charicature the original had that worked and was never overdone, as the firebird became in latter years.

It's too bad there isn't enough money to draw on a rich history of design language pontiac has had.

:yes:

Couldn't agree more.

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Looks terrible (and derivative).

There's only one Firebird that would be a smash hit even in these times. 20,000 sales guaranteed. Zeta Trans Am based on the Gen 2 1977-78 styling, screaming chicken on the hood (serious!), an LS3 bored and stroked out to 400 cubic inches, 400 or TA6.6 badges. Black and gold paint. Shiny gold and silver honeycomb wheels. T-tops. Lots of stripes. My generation, which is entering their peak earning years, lusted for this car when children...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:1978_Trans-Am.jpg

Edited by buyacargetacheck
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Oh look, another Pontiac based one a Chevy, and you can tell which one it's based off of too. Although the Camaro is far more badass than the Cobalt, turning them into Pontiac is by changing the fascia and a few interior bits is a no no. That's not how you save a brand. The Firebird should look completely unique, IMO.

Also I don't care for the render. The front looks like an odd mix of old and new, with old being tacked onto the new, and the rear just looks like a tacky 90's Pontiac concept.

That won't save Pontiac.

My :twocents:

I completely agree. Although, it would be true to history.

67CamaroRS-Top.jpg

67fire8.jpg

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Looks terrible (and derivative).

There's only one Firebird that would be a smash hit even in these times. 20,000 sales guaranteed. Zeta Trans Am based on the Gen 2 1977-78 styling, screaming chicken on the hood (serious!), an LS3 bored and stroked out to 400 cubic inches, 400 badges. Black and gold paint. Shiny gold and silver honeycomb wheels. T-tops. Lots of stripes. My generation, which is beginning their peak earning years, lusted for this car when children...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:1978_Trans-Am.jpg

Indeed. One of my favorites, though it may be a bit tacky for today's market. :P

Edited by blackviper8891
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Tacky is just what this market needs to stand out. Next up: big hair!!! I can't wait!!!

Indeed. One of my favorites, though it may be a bit tacky for today's market. :P
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Tacky is EXCITEMENT!!!!!!!!!!

(and it's been Pontiac's forte for years).

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Yep. Now Pontiac can put away the BMW costume and be true to herself. "You can't hide what's inside." --SpongeBob Squarepants

Tacky is EXCITEMENT!!!!!!!!!!

(and it's been Pontiac's forte for years).

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GM doesn't don't have the $$, and all the Pontiac purists will complain that it "doesn't look like the classic ones", and they'd also want a Pontiac V8 motor. The 04-06 GTO proved it and look at any Pontiac website, magazine, etc.

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That is pure sex.....I'd buy one right after FOG does...(since he is bigger than me)

IF they can make it different, it is worth a shot.

And if it can run and play with new Camaro, why not?

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GM doesn't don't have the $$, and all the Pontiac purists will complain that it "doesn't look like the classic ones", and they'd also want a Pontiac V8 motor. The 04-06 GTO proved it and look at any Pontiac website, magazine, etc.

Yeah, but that car looked like a giant Cavalier.

This actually looks like a Pontiac.....

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I just love this place.

We all sit and complain about Pontiac just being Chevy's Bitch and then a hand full clamer all over another poor chop of a rebadged Chevy.

This is the crap that got Pontiac into this mess. While I alwaysed love the TA myself I agree a rebadged Camaro right now is the last thing GM needs.

GM has not money to make it, They have no money to market it, and GM will have a hard enough time selling Camaro's after the first year with the wonderfull economy we have [Things are not going to improve much for at least 2-4 years.

GM needs to sell its first line car which is a Camaro and not delute the market with a clone. [Ford even figured that out in the 80's on the Mustang]

A Pontiac with a few non rebadged American cars will do better than what they are doing now as they can really make them performanced based.

I looked at a G3 and said to my buddy this is why they are in the place they are now.

Time to stop living in the past. THis car would be worse for GM than Smokey and the Bandit 2 was for Burt and Smokey # was for Jerry Reed.

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I just love this place.

We all sit and complain about Pontiac just being Chevy's Bitch and then a hand full clamer all over another poor chop of a rebadged Chevy.

This is the crap that got Pontiac into this mess. While I alwaysed love the TA myself I agree a rebadged Camaro right now is the last thing GM needs.

GM has not money to make it, They have no money to market it, and GM will have a hard enough time selling Camaro's after the first year with the wonderfull economy we have [Things are not going to improve much for at least 2-4 years.

GM needs to sell its first line car which is a Camaro and not delute the market with a clone. [Ford even figured that out in the 80's on the Mustang]

A Pontiac with a few non rebadged American cars will do better than what they are doing now as they can really make them performanced based.

I looked at a G3 and said to my buddy this is why they are in the place they are now.

Time to stop living in the past. THis car would be worse for GM than Smokey and the Bandit 2 was for Burt and Smokey # was for Jerry Reed.

acadia and enclave are barely any more differentiated, there's no real difference in content or mission/purpose, they go after the same crowd of people, and are priced similarly. yet no one here seems to complain about those. in an ideal situation, GM would have been better managed and the Buick would have been even more luxurious outside and in and had better engines and driven better than the GMC.....but they didn't do that. this is much the same situation. they are esentially badge engineering jobs.....not platform sharing like an Audi A4 and a Passat. [A4 has much higher quality than the already superb Passat and it drives much sportier, the look of the passat is mainstream, while Audi design is clearly upper crust.]

EDIT: let's say the G8 had a twin at Chevrolet. people would not be complaining as much about that rebadge as they do the torrent, G3, or even the execution of G6. why? because those cars have a lot of poor execution, the first two are utter crap in many regards and totally not befitting of pontiac;s supposed role. people are complaining about the poor cars pontiac gets. you don't here a lot of people yelling about solstice/sky.......

Edited by turbo200
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