FUTURE_OF_GM

Why can Pontiac not STILL be the performance division? Apparently, GM still doesn't understand that Performance doesn't have to equal RWD/V8. The G3 is fine, so long as it is uniquely Pontiac (Which I'm sure it won't be) Looks like GM is taking their old school approach to this market: "Put out 2 or 3 half baked cars and hope that together they can all take down the more premium Fit and Versa and soon to be Fiesta!" Why not do it right GM? Will the new G3 be based on the new Aveo or the current Aveo? If it's spawned from the new Aveo, then hopefully we'll get some differentation. How about a more sporty entry into this market GM? No one else does "sport" or "excitement" or "fun to drive" in this niche, why don't you guys? Oh, I forgot, that would require market leadership. Here's hoping for the best with that... At least the G3 will drive volume and shut the dealers up. (After all, GM pretty much is ran by the dealers anyway, right?) The other sedan must be Alpha... YAY!!! All hope is not lost! GM, why would Buick be better suited for Alpha? Sure, you can charge more for a Buick Alpha, but in the day and age of 'share reversal' will you sell as many? The Alpha Pontiac, if done right could completely reverse the image of Pontiac and you could have your cake of higher transaction prices and eat it too in the form of big sales. GM, DO NOT EFF UP THE CRUZE COMPANION!!!!!! The market is coming to you and this is SIMPLE business! Make a version that is 1) worthy of the Pontiac name and 2) Will get ADDITIONAL sales instead of stealing them away from the Cruze. RE The G6: So, if Pontiac gets Alpha it could 1) keep the G6 and sell the two cars side by side (a la GP & G6) or 2) Just sell the Alpha. Hmmmm........ So Buick is obviously wanting the G6 to stay on Epsilon so they can get Alpha. Yet Buick will be just off of an Epsilon II debut. Why not develop a NEW G6 line from Epsilon II and GIVE IT TO BUICK The whole shebang... Make the sedan the Lacrosse, introduce a sexy Riviera convertible and make an Invicta coupe or something. Then just give Pontiac a Sedan from Alpha. That way, the enthusiasts get what they want and Pontiac isn't forcing volume in a market that doesn't want Pontiac volume. Buick gets a boost and better sales with higher transaction prices to boot. Then maybe an Impala companion can be developed off of the stretched Epsilon for Buick. So the luxury folks get FWD/AWD and luxury while the enthusiasts get a simpler RWD G8 line and Alpha (Solstice could be melded in here too, yet Pontiac pulls volume through G3, G5 and Vibe. *** So, every car at GM is now going to have either the 1.4L or the 3.6L?!?!? Geez, talk about bland... At least thy could develop the motors into different power ratings or something. *** It looks more and more like Europe here everyday, and I'm not fine with that.

But there is room for a cheaper, more sport/less luxury Pontiac! I've always thought that Chevrolet and Buick should be paralleled and likewise Cadillac and Pontiac should be the same way. Chev/Buick for the mainstream traditional buyer, Pont/Caddy for the enthusiast. Cadillac goes after BMW, Buick goes after Lexus. See the difference. Pontiac goes after Nissan & Dodge, Chevrolet goes after Ford & Toyota. Saturn and Saab can target Honda/Acura, Volvo and VW.

Which might be one reason Pontiac isn't getting much attention now. Either 1) stuff is in the pipeline that will debut for them that we don't know about. or 2) GM is contemplating selling the cars under Buick, thus solidifying the division and probably making higher transaction prices to boot. Maybe this is why the "war" has been raging inside of GM. They can make the small cars Buicks, since they already are anyway. So Zeta was supposed to save Pontiac and was it's only real crutch. But now, with the greenies and people whining about gas, Zeta seems to be the Titanic. What little demand that is left for Zeta can easily be handled by Chevrolet and Cadillac. (Further consolidating) That left Alpha, and I guess the anti-Pontiac won that war after Zeta started biting the dust. Chevy wants a coupe from Alpha, so why not consolidate further and sell the one car, that would make Pontiac viable, as a Buick for a better profit? A sad day indeed... Maybe Pontiac will be starved now. Too bad GM apparently is too impatient to realize yet another one of their great divisions potential.

COMMENTS: A Delta Buick could be nice, so long as GM doesn't screw it up or badge engineer. The Invicta was so gorgeous... Why is the production version so crappy? I really hate to hear that the Riviera was cancelled (If I had a dollar for every gorgeous Buick concept that GM trashed, I'd be 10-12 dollars richer) I would've loved to see the Invicta debut and the Riviera follow a year later. Of course, those might've been the replacements for the G6 line ultimately. Or would the Riviera be on Alpha? Is it too big? Anyway... I really hope they don't let the Enclave wither on the vine like so many other great GM products have done. I guess GM is just pulling out of the full size car market in general? Or will Cadillac carry the torch there? The G8 sticking around is looking more positive everyday. Or can Eps II be stretched? This actually really scares me... I don't want to be forced to drive a compact car (Actually... A compact car with a V8 would be fun ) because the government and enviro-geeks think I should. Guess I can always buy classics (Until they outlaw those too)

I think that was originally the plan. But now Pontiac is supposedly receiving nothing from Alpha. My guess is this: Chevrolet wants the Alpha coupe and pretty much pushed Pontiac out of the way there to develop the F6 Camaro. That leaves the sedan which GM appears to be giving to Buick in the B/P/GMC channel. My guess is because they can get a higher transaction price for a Buick Alpha. Alpha would be cool for Pontiac, but in reality an AWD Eps II or AWD Delta II could work just as well. So long as they leave Zeta and Kappa for the traditionalists.

It'd be awesome if Alpha is out by then, but everything I've heard says that Alpha will not be ready by then. In fact there is supposedly a freeze on Alpha now.

For now... Rumor was that Saab wanted Kappa when it rolled out. So why wouldn't they want a slot on Alpha? Not to mention, given where Alpha is supposedly being developed and the desire by GM (for some unknown reason) to continue to try and develop the black hole known as Saab, it would be a no brainer.

I'm fine with a Cadillac 4 cylinder, so long as it's actually premium and not corporate crap. But the option of a V6 should be there for those who want it. And there will be buyers that want it, as the AutoWeek (or whatever rag it was) board suggests. I just don't want overlapping Saabs and Cadillacs.

Wow! With that kind of planning and ROI, GM will be beating down your door to offer you a job in no time!

Nice to see you back man, regardless what others say. (Behind your back, of course)

Because the media connotates something negative with EVERY name. Example: The G6. Before it even hit the lots, it was "the chick car that was given away on Oprah" The Oprah marketing campaign was brilliant. But was spun by the media to be pure negativity.

Gorgeous! Except for the wheels... Of course.

See, That's logical thinking... IF YOU'RE RUNNING SATURN OR CHEVROLET! Cadillac buyers (or those that Cadillac seeks) probably aren't that worried about fuel prices. This worries me, because it tells me that GM has given up on making Cadillac the division that it should be. And what is the point of GM offering a 4 cylinder only Cadillac, even if it is turbocharged?!?! Isn't that Saab territory? Is GM seriously going to make Cadillac and (the much better 'environmentally' positioned Saab) battle it out for top luxury division? Remember what I told you about Saab eventually becoming THE luxury division at GM? TICK-TOCK! And BTW, I have a very hard time believing that this is Alpha, so it looks like EPSILON II has breached Cadillac as well. More corporate EDIT: Looks like the people posting there hate the idea too.

I think GM has something up it's sleeve for Cadillac with the next generation of LS motors. In todays market, developing 2 V8s is like developing 2 large RWD platforms: POINTLESS. So hopefully, like Sigma or Alpha might replace Zeta, the LS might replace the UV8. Or maybe the UV8 technology could be adapted to certain "premium" versions of the new LS motors. It's just a shame that GM spent all this development money on what appears to be amazing engineering on all levels only to get no ROI.

Same same here... I really respect him for serving his country as he did. But I hear a lot of the 'same old stuff' from him instead of what this country needs. +1

I'd be all for it! As long as I caan have my V8 (SS or Z/28, preferably Z/28) then I'm all for sticking anything else under the hood. And a 5.0 with that power sounds excellent! Fun comes in all packages.

I don't think it would've because as of now, I've seen nothing indicating that we are paying higher prices because of demand. Earlier this year we were on a 15 years surplus of gasoline, yet prices STILL climbed. It's paper shuffling on 'the street' and nothing else IMO. Just some 'slick' people making money on the backs of us.

Doesn't mean either of them is any good or has a clue. It's a long way from blue collar to Washington, despite what the candidates try to say when they speak of their blue collar roots. I just don't see the qualities of a good leader in either, but then again, everything is so filtered, refined and distilled that who knows what these guys are really like.

And that's a bad thing? Chicks make the majority of new car pruchases.

Maybe GM could use the pushrods to their advantage... The motors are just as refined as the DOHC units (IMO) Maybe GM could market them as "distinctly american" just like art & science and Cadillac as whole was/is supposed to be distinctly american.

And some people here wonder why the media likes to talk up a Detroit bankruptcy and how it hurts the automakers. But, of course. Shouldn't this be all the more reason for a bailout? The presidential campaigners like to talk up manufacturing in american, yet our largest and most proud group of manufacturers is dying... Shouldn't we look at that as "Hey, we need to regain ground in this market" instead of "Well, they're not as relevant now as they were, so we'll just give the market away"?!?!? What about the engineering sector or R&D? GM is still one of the largest spenders in R&D in this country. What about the dealers and distribution? Sure, it wouldn't be as big of a problem as it might've been 30 years ago, but to say that it would be confined to the rust belt is stupidity and an author being naive. I'll pull out my favorite balthazar quote from years past: "The market doesn't need 3 domestic automakers, yet it needs 12 plus import automakers?" Yet another author trying to justify the agenda to murder Detroit.

You can tell that the author is an anti-Detroit jack ass. Essentially, this is the same thing that Japan did for Toyota when it financed the Prius. However, you won't see that in the headlines. I can't wait for the barage of 'american' consumers that refuses to buy cars from the big 3 because of this bailout. That's okay though, I'll have fun reminding them everyday that their tax dollars helped me purchase my new Camaro. SPOT ON! Okay: 1) That's just a $h!ty statement to make in the first place. But consider the source, it's coming from a traditionally conservative publication that probably already had it's ass saved (indirectly) through one of the bailouts already. Conservative publications and 'the street' are traditionally two-faced anyway. 2) Washington has been ran by whatever industry or corporation which had the most clout for going on 30 years now, why stop the circus for a little 'ol economic disaster? And that's supposed to be a positive thing? And there is the battle cry to rally the troops. 'We almost have Detroit dead! Say no! To a bailout, or they might actually recover and all our hard work is lost.' F*ck this guy and ditto all the Honda/Toyota buying citizens that won't consider a domestic (READ: CONSIDER, NOT EVEN BUY) "just because" it's not cool or not in fashion. I hope you yuppies enjoy paying for my company to become successful again. Sure, the big three screwed up... But how long are they going to have to pay for it in the eyes of these people? I'll tell you how long; until they're dead. So Detroit might as well man up and get cut throat. These people aren't going to buy your cars anyway, so make 'em feel stupid by putting out better product by any means possible.

Took the words right out of my mouth. After 8 years of struggling to eat and buy gas, I think it's time for a change

Mine looks exactly like this: No surprise there since 1) I idolize the guy and 2) I'm pretty much an enlightened redneck. (And very proud of it) I get lots of compliments on it, guess I pull it off well. Someday I'll have to shave though, when I land a REAL job. LOL. If you decide to go this long you need shampoo to wash it and some kind of wax. I use wax to tame down the sides so it looks full and healthy instead of too white trash. It also helps to use a hair dryer to dry it. (Seriously, it holds water like a mofo) That is all. LOL. Oh, and beware of food dropping in it too (as ocn said) That can be both embarassing and disgusting.