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  • Drew Dowdell
    Drew Dowdell

    Cadillac to be Center of GM's EV Push

      New EV Architecture coming and Cadillac gets first dibs

    During GM's earnings call today, GM announced that a new, highly flexible, EV architecture is on the way and that Cadillac will be at the center of the release.  The architecture, called BEV3, is said to be highly flexible, being able to be configured from small sedans to large crossover formats, and front-wheel, rear-wheel, or all-wheel drive configurations.   GM is targeting a sweet spot of 300 mile in range according to GM CEO Mary Barra.  GM is going to continue its development of autonomous technology.  It currently offers SuperCruise automated driving on the flagship CT6 sedan and plans to expand that technology across the Cadillac lineup.

    Late last year, GM announced that it would be canceling two of its plug-in hybrid vehicles in a slew of cutbacks in the sedan segment. 

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    9 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

    Given how good Cadillacs look and how bad the Bolt looks, this should be good news for GM's electric program. 

    I"m mostly interested in how flexible the platform is supposed to be. They didn't show any trucks, but apparently, they showed 11 different possible configurations. 

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    41 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    I"m mostly interested in how flexible the platform is supposed to be. They didn't show any trucks, but apparently, they showed 11 different possible configurations. 

    It should save hugely in terms of things like emissions certification for new vehicles.  Flexibility in manufacturing now becomes easy because your power plant configuration would seem to be more standardized. 

    But yes...I think this is a real turning point. 

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    2 minutes ago, regfootball said:

    And is this platform at the expense of other Cadillac ICE vehicle platforms that people will actually buy. It should be in addition.  

    It sounds like it is a platform for all of GM, it's just that Cadillac is getting it first.

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    2 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    We should start to see the first ones this year. 

    They don’t even have a prototype yet, at least nothing that anyone has seen.  They won’t have it on sale this year.  Maybe by end of the year they have a concept car worked up.  

    You wonder how scalable it will be, like could the Corvette and Silverado both be built off this platform?

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    3 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    They don’t even have a prototype yet, at least nothing that anyone has seen.  They won’t have it on sale this year.  Maybe by end of the year they have a concept car worked up.  

    You wonder how scalable it will be, like could the Corvette and Silverado both be built off this platform?

    It's Jan 11th. They have plenty of time still. The XT6 that will be shown on Sunday will be on sale later this year. 

    Definitely no on the Silverado, they showed it supporting 7-passenger SUVs but no trucks.  While I don't think it will go into Corvette, an EV sports car could be done.

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    That new EV platform is needed on the Escalade and the XT5/XT4 as soon as it is all ready.  Then it can go everywhere else.

    Q: Are they compatible with existing Tesla superchargers, or is GM going to build its own EV infrastructure?

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    2 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    It's Jan 11th. They have plenty of time still. The XT6 that will be shown on Sunday will be on sale later this year. 

    Definitely no on the Silverado, they showed it supporting 7-passenger SUVs but no trucks.  While I don't think it will go into Corvette, an EV sports car could be done.

    They probably need another EV platform or two it sounds like then.  But obviously small to midsize crossover/sedan is where you start and 3 row crossover off that.

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    1 minute ago, smk4565 said:

    They probably need another EV platform or two it sounds like then.  But obviously small to midsize crossover/sedan is where you start and 3 row crossover off that.

    Tesla needs a compact and mid size CUV and a Mid Size Pickup. That would give them a decent portfolio. 

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    11 minutes ago, dfelt said:

    Tesla needs a compact and mid size CUV and a Mid Size Pickup. That would give them a decent portfolio. 

    Agreed, it is all coming but they are too small to launch multiple vehicles at once like a Toyota or GM could.  This could hurt Tesla if everyone else gets up to speed with full EV lines.

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    38 minutes ago, riviera74 said:

    That new EV platform is needed on the Escalade and the XT5/XT4 as soon as it is all ready.  Then it can go everywhere else.

    Q: Are they compatible with existing Tesla superchargers, or is GM going to build its own EV infrastructure?

    or perhaps we can figure when exactly and what exactly the global charging and power supply infrastructure will be, roll it out and have it in place for that EV we are all going to buy.

    Any chance we can carry a spare battery in case the one on the car dies?

     

    Image result for powerbank

     

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    2 hours ago, riviera74 said:

    Q: Are they compatible with existing Tesla superchargers, or is GM going to build its own EV infrastructure?

    Tesla Superchargers are not compatible with existing SAE charging systems that all other OEM Auto companies have agreed too.

    Electric-Car-charging-plug-standard-2-64

    GM has signed on along with Ford to support the SAE J1772 standard which will allow up to 800V charging which gives us our 400 mile battery pack recharge in 15 minutes once the chargers are in place. GM has announced that they will have these fast chargers installed at their dealerships for use by the dealer and customers.

    As a stop gap measure till the faster chargers are installed, GM has made the following News which covers the current 31,000 charge points in the US for their customers:

    https://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/home.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2019/jan/0109-charging.html

    I also just learned that we missed the announcement in October that GM is offering true bumper to bumper full warranty offers to go from 3/36 to 5yrs / 60K miles or 6yrs / 70k miles from their 3/36k warranty depending on brand.

    https://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2018/oct/1015-cca.html

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    It doesn't get much press, but the EV charging infrastructure is expanding constantly. There is a bit of a race on among the main providers to expand and I think one or two of them may expand too fast and get into financial difficulties. 

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    3 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    It doesn't get much press, but the EV charging infrastructure is expanding constantly. There is a bit of a race on among the main providers to expand and I think one or two of them may expand too fast and get into financial difficulties. 

    Both of the two core subscription services have signed agreements with VW for all that VW is installing. I wonder how much the VW installation of chargers across america is also affecting the charge points as we stood at just over 17,000 at the start of January  2018 and now at the start of January 2019 we have 31,000 public charge points across america and that does not include the Tesla ones which now have an adapter to allow use of the Tesla charge points.

    https://shop.tesla.com/us/en/product/vehicle-accessories/model-s_x_3-sae-j1772-charging-adapter.html

    So if we add the 12,011 Tesla Supercharger charge points to the list (https://www.tesla.com/supercharger ) we now have 43,011 charge points in the US alone from 17,000 in January 2018. Big change and proof that EV charging everywhere will happen as habits change on how you fuel your EV compared to an ICE auto.

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    300 mile is NOT a sweet spot. 300 miles means that you are carrying more than 200 miles of battery costs and weight which 99% of commuters will NEVER use 99% of the time.

    --

    Now, breaking free of EV range constraints is a great idea. It is the only reason Tesla was successful whereas previous EVs -- regardless of price and performance -- weren't. But at an equivalent of $5000 for about 50 miles worth of batteries, one has to wonder whether those $20,000 can be better spent on other things. Things which can include a 30hp turbo-electric generator costing $2000 and the size of a muffler which can extend the range of the vehicle when needed and which guarantees that you will never be stranded by a depleted battery. A turbo-electric generator has no coolant circuit or radiator requirements. It'll run on gasoline, diesel, CNG, propane or whatever you throw at it. The fuel economy of this generator is largely irrelevant since you are not expected to use it 99% of the time.

    micro_turbine.jpg

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    2 minutes ago, dwightlooi said:

    300 mile is NOT a sweet spot. 300 miles means that you are carrying more than 200 miles of battery costs and weight which 99% of commuters will NEVER use 99% of the time.

    --

    Now, breaking free of EV range constraints is a great idea. It is the only reason Tesla was successful whereas previous EVs -- regardless of price and performance -- weren't. But at an equivalent of $5000 for about 50 miles worth of batteries, one has to wonder whether those $20,000 can be better spent on other things. Things which can include a 30hp turbo-electric generator costing $2000 and the size of a muffler which can extend the range of the vehicle when needed and which guarantees that you will never be stranded by a depleted battery. The fuel economy of this generator is largely irrelevant since you are not expected to use it 99% of the time.

    People like to travel in luxury cars.  That means they need more than 100 miles of range

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    4 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    People like to travel in luxury cars.  That means they need more than 100 miles of range

    Yes. Hence " Things which can include a 30hp turbo-electric generator costing $2000 and the size of a muffler which can extend the range of the vehicle when needed and which guarantees that you will never be stranded by a depleted battery. A turbo-electric generator has no coolant circuit or radiator requirements. It'll run on gasoline, diesel, CNG, propane or whatever you throw at it. The fuel economy of this generator is largely irrelevant since you are not expected to use it 99% of the time. "

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    23 minutes ago, dwightlooi said:

    Yes. Hence " Things which can include a 30hp turbo-electric generator costing $2000 and the size of a muffler which can extend the range of the vehicle when needed and which guarantees that you will never be stranded by a depleted battery. A turbo-electric generator has no coolant circuit or radiator requirements. It'll run on gasoline, diesel, CNG, propane or whatever you throw at it. The fuel economy of this generator is largely irrelevant since you are not expected to use it 99% of the time. "

    That's basically what BMW did with the i3, at least in terms of power output, and it didn't work so well.  They made the range so small that even with the gas regenerator there is range anxiety.

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    I could've sworn I predicted this back in November. That perhaps the death of the CT6, or change over of the CT6 was to make way for some sort of EV replacement.. and that Cadillac was preparing for a move to take on Tesla... that another large sedan is replacing it (CT6).. a full size vehicle, that is a direct competitor, but obviously more luxurious than the Model S, which unless U spend serious coin, has a very basic interior. The plan also called for a large majority of the upcoming GM EVs to be Cadillacs. If that plan is still in play.. with the only surprise for Cadillac upon the announcements laid out was the North American death of the aforementioned CT6.. it stands to reason that it is not the Germans, nor Lincoln that Cadillac is looking to emulate.. but Tesla? Difference being.. with the full force of a profitable GM, comprised of Chevy, Buick, GMC, and a plethora of Trucks and SUVs to fund this venture.. Cadillac's "Tesla" will be actually profitable from git.

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    So maybe Johann got the CT6 and hot vee blackwing motor approved and then was told they were scrapping it. Maybe he had an Escala type CT7 in play. And maybe then he got the news that the new mob at GM wanted to axe  it all. Probably said screw this and bye. Meanwhile Cadillac has to stretch an XT5 into an XT6 to hope for some sales volume. Have to sell some crossovers in order to raid the coffers to fund electrics. There are gas stations every few miles off the interstate. Would really like to see what the plan is for adding dozens of electric chargers at every Holiday and Qwik Trip before they put all these new electrics on sale. Shouldn’t the chargers be in place when they want to sell the cars ?  

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    39 minutes ago, regfootball said:

    So maybe Johann got the CT6 and hot vee blackwing motor approved and then was told they were scrapping it. Maybe he had an Escala type CT7 in play. And maybe then he got the news that the new mob at GM wanted to axe  it all. Probably said screw this and bye. Meanwhile Cadillac has to stretch an XT5 into an XT6 to hope for some sales volume. Have to sell some crossovers in order to raid the coffers to fund electrics. There are gas stations every few miles off the interstate. Would really like to see what the plan is for adding dozens of electric chargers at every Holiday and Qwik Trip before they put all these new electrics on sale. Shouldn’t the chargers be in place when they want to sell the cars ?  

    To Quote: According to the U.S. Census Bureau, there were 114,533 gas stations in the U.S. at the end of 2012, the last year for which data is available.

    Pretty much the West Coast Electric Highway has become the role model for what VW is doing in installing chargers all across America.

    http://westcoastgreenhighway.com/electrichighway.htm

    Then you also have the national map of charging stations and there are far more than most people think.

    https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/electricity_locations.html#/find/nearest?fuel=ELEC

    I posted in another thread that we have over 43,000 charge points across the US.

    114,533 gas stations versus 43,011 public charge points and charge points will be growing massively.

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    Wait did I read that right?  CHARGERS ACROSS AMERICA?

    2019-Dodge-Charger-A3_o.jpg

    Yes of course, just as I envisioned.  One platform for every purpose.  Could it be that GM is actually studying how Power Wheels does things, and not Tesla?  A common chassis, and just drop a silhouette on top?  Wow, so much excitement, and individuality is in store./not

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    3 hours ago, ocnblu said:

    Wait did I read that right?  CHARGERS ACROSS AMERICA?

    2019-Dodge-Charger-A3_o.jpg

    Yes of course, just as I envisioned.  One platform for every purpose.  Could it be that GM is actually studying how Power Wheels does things, and not Tesla?  A common chassis, and just drop a silhouette on top?  Wow, so much excitement, and individuality is in store./not

    Make mine hot with a Hemi. One can love ICE and electric both.

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    12 hours ago, dfelt said:

    To Quote: According to the U.S. Census Bureau, there were 114,533 gas stations in the U.S. at the end of 2012, the last year for which data is available.

    Pretty much the West Coast Electric Highway has become the role model for what VW is doing in installing chargers all across America.

    http://westcoastgreenhighway.com/electrichighway.htm

    Then you also have the national map of charging stations and there are far more than most people think.

    https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/electricity_locations.html#/find/nearest?fuel=ELEC

    I posted in another thread that we have over 43,000 charge points across the US.

    114,533 gas stations versus 43,011 public charge points and charge points will be growing massively.

    and each gas station has 24-32 pumps, which is 3 million pumps (probably more like 5 million pumps when all is said and done)= 1.4% the electric charge locations vs gas which may be inconvenient for lots of people (no one traveling is going to swing out of the way to go to a dealership to charge their car).  So in blunt terms, there are no chargers out there to service much more than 1% of the population, even less of a number when you add the term 'conveniently'.  I still never see anyone using the charge ports at grocery stores, etc. and even at the apartment complexes we develop in the public chargers, virtually never get used.

    Pushing EV's now is a means to push vehicles that sell at out of reach prices to generate income to pay for battery development and autonomous vehicles.  Cadillac must have determined they can no longer play in the upper income bracket so they must be giving up on trying they will use the profits from their overpriced ford edges to fund the electrics cause the only who can buy them are the high end buyers. Some day the costs will come down for the everyday shopper BUT THEY WON'T BUY THEM UNTIL THERE ARE 3,000,000 charge points and can top of their battery in 5 minutes to go 300 miles.

    Also not in this discussion is that people will not spend 2-3 grand to rewire their existing homes for fast car charging.  I advocate modifying building code to mandate proper electrical for fast charging a car, for newly built construction.  But since most people live in old homes and can't afford to fix little things when broken on their house, something will have to incentivize buyers to rewire their home service.  New carpet or furniture or a plug in for a car that costs 1/3-2x more?  Hmm i'll go with new furniture.  

    5-15 minute charge time on demand will be what people want and require for on the go charging.  And very few will have any car charging capabilities at home for 10 years or more.

    By the way I do love electrics, I wanted a volt but never got one because its too small to be practical.  

     

    Edited by regfootball
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    • Everyone seems to forget about the charging stations owners of EVs have at home
    • Or do those 43 000 charging points INCLUDE the EV owner's garage?
    • So, technically, if those 43 000 charging stations do not include home charge ports then there are more charging stations than 43 000...

    And this is where it truly becomes interesting...

    Because  if EV charging stations on public Streets and private businesses make up for 25% of all fueling stations of any kind for only 2% of market share, then that means that the governments and EV makers are indeed getting ready for an all EV market pretty darned soon...so we North Americans are ready to buy and use  EVs...

    Also, another point of view that I thought about, is that to once and for all, eliminate this non-starter/non-issue range anxiety thing that seems to be pushed by the anti-EV movement. The more charging stations there are, the less that argument holds true. So...43 000 for only 2%. But both numbers will grow. 

    Its best to be ahead of the game with charging stations than behind the 8 ball...

    And...again, charging your EV at home eliminates any negative argument about charging networks...because if you charge at home before leaving your house, you start with a full charge and full driving range until you need to charge up again for another 300 or so miles...

    300 miles...

    Distance between Boston and Montréal equals to approx 307 miles...

    Distance between NYC and Boston equals to approx 214 miles...

    Distance between Tornto and Montréal  equals to approx 336  miles

    Distance between San Francisco and Los Angleles equals to approx 383  miles

    Distance between Los Angeles and Las Vegas equals to approx 270  miles

    Distance between Dallas and Houston equals to approx 239 miles

    Interesting indeed. When Ive heard all the anti-EV arguments regarding range and charging stations.

    Alls I see, now that  the charging network is beefing up and all the people involved in the EV world (governments and EV makers and all that) are making all the necessary  moves to make the transition to EVs from ICE as smooth as possible, to be ready when GM, Ford, M-B, Volvo, Tesla and all others gives us an onslaught of EVs to choose from, then we will see what Joe Public really wants.

    Does Joe public want EVs?

    Or does he want ICE?

    Because as I see it, there are no more excuses and arguments and discussions...

    Everything will be in place for an EV transition. A variety of EVs will be offered. A charging network in place. Battery even at 300 miles is a non-issue and that will go up soon enough.

    Fast charging times at more stations will be coming soon too...

    But will the people flock to them? 

    Interesting indeed!!!

    Edited by oldshurst442
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    ^ Many valid points.
    • No doubt that 43K number does NOT include home units- I believe the idea in play here is 'fueling' while out- there is no 'anxiety' at the owner's home.
    • I agree that having a surplus of charging stations out & about goes a long way to reducing range anxiety and is nicely ahead of the sales curve. However I cannot help but to wonder- what if charging stations continue to expand at their admirable rate of installation, but EVs take another 20 years to get to just 5% of the market??

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    31 minutes ago, balthazar said:

    ^ Many valid points.
    • No doubt that 43K number does NOT include home units- I believe the idea in play here is 'fueling' while out- there is no 'anxiety' at the owner's home.
    • I agree that having a surplus of charging stations out & about goes a long way to reducing range anxiety and is nicely ahead of the sales curve. However I cannot help but to wonder- what if charging stations continue to expand at their admirable rate of installation, but EVs take another 20 years to get to just 5% of the market??

    Free market economics will provide balance at some point.

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    If I had a Bolt I could not have made it home from my 250 mile road trip today.  And... if there were a charging station between here and there, I would not be home yet.  Not anxiety, just fact.

    Edited by ocnblu
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    52 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

    If I had a Bolt I could not have made it home from my 250 mile road trip today.  And... if there were a charging station between here and there, I would not be home yet.  Not anxiety, just fact.

    True.

    But, a 250 mile road trip is what...3 hour drive? 

    You are speeding doing that trip in 3 hours so you will probably get stopped by the authorities. Where do you need to go and need to do to be driving that fast, bro???!!! SLOW THE ? DOWN!!!

    With that being said, a 250 mile trip...

    SCREW THAT!!!

    Ive got a Bolt...I need to see my cousin in Boston...(for real, I actually DO have an American (Greek) cousin in Boston. He is a pure Bostonian, accent and all!!!)

    It aint an emergency because Id FLY there. Take a plane...

    So...an ICE car gets me to Boston in 5 hours.  Like in 5 hours flat WITHOUT speeding (well, carefully planned speeding:rolleyes:)  If Id roll the with the speed limits it would really take me 5 hours and 35-45 minutes...) 

    All the cars that I have ever owned and driven down to Boston, I had enough gas to get there but Id have to gas up soon after arriving in the city.  Like in the city...not aroung city limits, but in the city. 

    When I was single, I NEVER stopped, did that drive DIRECT! Ive been to Boston with the family once and been to Toronto (same distance and time as Boston give or take) once and both times, the wife AND/OR the kids MADE ME STOP TWICE...you know, for bathroom breaks and for snacks...a loss of about 30-45 minutes...or an addition to traveling time...

    So...a 250 mile trip, or a 300 mile trip...in an EV...one DOES have to make a stop for charging JUST before the destination's city's limits  to charge up for another 100% so one does not run out of battery...TRUE!!!  About 45 minute delay...

    But as you can see...being married and traveling with the family...I NEVER have been able to do such a trip non-stop anyway...so...FOR ME...MOOT POINT...

    I have to stop to pee and eat BBQ chips anyway...charging up aint no big deal...and since the charging network is being beefed up, using a Bolt...will not be a problem finding a charging station...

    But...if Im traveling with my family...why in the hell am I traveling in such a small car?

    Id take a Tesla Model 3 or Tesla Model S or better yet, the Tesla Model X over the Chevy Bolt for sure...and if that is the case...250 miles could maybe even be done REACHING the 250 mile destination without stopping...but impossible knowing my wife and kids would want to stop to pee anyway!!!

    All that just to say, when traveling, especially for fun...what is the damned hurry anyway???!!!

    But even traveling for business, EVs have come along way even in the short time you and I discussed this EV thing 3 years ago...NO EXCUSES NOW...

    Oh...you can find weakness still, in 2019...but I doubt you will find these weaknesses in 2021...

    Edited by oldshurst442
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    2 hours ago, balthazar said:

     what if charging stations continue to expand at their admirable rate of installation, but EVs take another 20 years to get to just 5% of the market??

     

    2 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

    Free market economics will provide balance at some point.

     

    Im one of those people that think the switch to EVs (in some parts of North America) will happen quicker than we think. (places like Alberta or Texas where they make their $$$ with oil, much much later)

    With that being said, only time will tell what will happen with this EV revolution. 

    There are several factors though that will push this thing through whether Lancaster Penns. natives, Albertans and Texans like it or not.

    • Different countries around the world have already set a date where new ICE vehicles will no longer be able to be sold and eventually banned completely from their roads
    • These countries that have done that, the major car manufacturers of the world all sell their cars there. 
    • There is one country in particular that has done this, and its the biggest car market in the world forcing all car makers to abide by this ban because all major world car makers want a piece of that Chinese car selling pie
    • Because all the  major world car makers wanting that piece of  Chinese car selling pie, it seems that these car makers are shoving EVs down our throats. They kind of have no choice either, because that is where the $$$ are.
    • But...its not ONLY all the  major world car makers that are shoving EVs down our throats, but the countries that havent yet banned ICE vehicles yet, its only a matter of time before they also do. So, once again, all world car makers do not really have a choice in the matter...

    In other words, whether Lancaster Penns. natives, Albertans and Texans want them or not, EVs are the next wave of transportation methods for the masses.

    Even if it takes 20 years to make up 5% in the US, at least the infrastructure will be there. And the people that have bought EVs, well, there wont be waiting in line to charge up like how it is now because too many people need batteries charged and not enough stations to accomodate.

    But...there are engineers that are trying to invent cordless charging/charging while driving..

    So...maybe all those charging stations might become overkill???

    Not for the 20 years to attain 5% market share angle, but because technology evolves and improves.

    And what if hydrogen becomes a thing?

     

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    1 hour ago, oldshurst442 said:

    True.

    But, a 250 mile road trip is what...3 hour drive? 

    You are speeding doing that trip in 3 hours so you will probably get stopped by the authorities. Where do you need to go and need to do to be driving that fast, bro???!!! SLOW THE ? DOWN!!!

    With that being said, a 250 mile trip...

    SCREW THAT!!!

    Ive got a Bolt...I need to see my cousin in Boston...(for real, I actually DO have an American (Greek) cousin in Boston. He is a pure Bostonian, accent and all!!!)

    It aint an emergency because Id FLY there. Take a plane...

    So...an ICE car gets me to Boston in 5 hours.  Like in 5 hours flat WITHOUT speeding (well, carefully planned speeding:rolleyes:)  If Id roll the with the speed limits it would really take me 5 hours and 35-45 minutes...) 

    All the cars that I have ever owned and driven down to Boston, I had enough gas to get there but Id have to gas up soon after arriving in the city.  Like in the city...not aroung city limits, but in the city. 

    When I was single, I NEVER stopped, did that drive DIRECT! Ive been to Boston with the family once and been to Toronto (same distance and time as Boston give or take) once and both times, the wife AND/OR the kids MADE ME STOP TWICE...you know, for bathroom breaks and for snacks...a loss of about 30-45 minutes...or an addition to traveling time...

    So...a 250 mile trip, or a 300 mile trip...in an EV...one DOES have to make a stop for charging JUST before the destination's city's limits  to charge up for another 100% so one does not run out of battery...TRUE!!!  About 45 minute delay...

    But as you can see...being married and traveling with the family...I NEVER have been able to do such a trip non-stop anyway...so...FOR ME...MOOT POINT...

    I have to stop to pee and eat BBQ chips anyway...charging up aint no big deal...and since the charging network is being beefed up, using a Bolt...will not be a problem finding a charging station...

    But...if Im traveling with my family...why in the hell am I traveling in such a small car?

    Id take a Tesla Model 3 or Tesla Model S or better yet, the Tesla Model X over the Chevy Bolt for sure...and if that is the case...250 miles could maybe even be done REACHING the 250 mile destination without stopping...but impossible knowing my wife and kids would want to stop to pee anyway!!!

    All that just to say, when traveling, especially for fun...what is the damned hurry anyway???!!!

    But even traveling for business, EVs have come along way even in the short time you and I discussed this EV thing 3 years ago...NO EXCUSES NOW...

    Oh...you can find weakness still, in 2019...but I doubt you will find these weaknesses in 2021...

    What is this... Encyclopedia Britannica?  War & Peace?  Aaaand... who said it was a 3 hour trip?  :huh:

    Edited by ocnblu
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    54 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

    Different countries around the world have already set a date where new ICE vehicles will no longer be able to be sold and eventually banned completely from their road.

    • But...its not ONLY all the  major world car makers that are shoving EVs down our throats, but the countries that havent yet banned ICE vehicles yet, its only a matter of time before they also do. So, once again, all world car makers do not really have a choice in the matter...

    There's a big problem with that, and we've ALL seen Gov't projected end dates fail / get pushed back before.
    Look at cigarettes- lawmakers have been turning the screws on smoking for 60 YEARS - there's zero benefit to it other than some people have a preference for the habit. Why isn't it banned yet? Very difficult to do. And while it MAY work in a couple of countries and actually stick, it's not the way here.
    RE EVs- IMO the U.S. will NEVER ban IC vehicles. I actually do mean "never" on this one.

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    10 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

    What is this... Encyclopedia Brittanica?  War & Peace?  Aaaand... who said it was a 3 hour trip?  :huh:

    Closer to a 4 hour trip...but that 3 hour statement was to make a...point....in a jokingly fashion. But there was a point being made...

    Point being, when traveling, 4-5-6-7 hours by car. Its exactly THAT...4-5-6-7 hours on the road. 

    If you are in a hurry. Travel by airplane.

    If you dont want the hassles of stopping to pee, or charging up...travel by train...

    If you take the bloody time to travel by car...4-5-6-7 hours, you invest 4-5-6--7 hours of your life on the road....45 minutes to pee and/or to charge up/fuel up is a NON-ISSUE! 

    You could make up all kinds of deterrents in your head, in reality, there are none! 

    THAT is the point. 

    Where do you need to go and that quickly for 250 miles that a 45 minute piss stop or charge up would be an issue for you?

    You are already on the road for 4-5-6-7 hours...obviously an extra 45 minutes to piss, or to charge up aint a big deal...

    You could make into a big deal deterrent, I suppose.  But it really aint!

     

    Edited by oldshurst442
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    7 minutes ago, balthazar said:

    There's a big problem with that, and we've ALL seen Gov't projected end dates fail / get pushed back before.
    Look at cigarettes- lawmakers have been turning the screws on smoking for 60 YEARS - there's zero benefit to it other than some people have a preference for the habit. Why isn't it banned yet? Very difficult to do. And while it MAY work in a couple of countries and actually stick, it's not the way here.
    RE EVs- IMO the U.S. will NEVER ban IC vehicles. I actually do mean "never" on this one.

    Nor should they ever ban them.

    I think the ICE vehicle will stay around as a niche vehicle for a very long time....for the same reason Facebook has not replaced Cheers and Gears.

    Cheers and Gears is a niche market for older guys who don't get laid enough to argue vehemently about cars they are never ever going to buy. If a free market of ideas can provide that...

    A free economic market can provide ICE vehicles as niche products in a world of electrics.

    2 hours ago, ocnblu said:

    If I had a Bolt I could not have made it home from my 250 mile road trip today.  And... if there were a charging station between here and there, I would not be home yet.  Not anxiety, just fact.

    Not to mention Cold weather cuts into the range of battery electric vehicles...and the resistance of snow would not have helped matters any either...

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    12 minutes ago, balthazar said:

    There's a big problem with that, and we've ALL seen Gov't projected end dates fail / get pushed back before.
    Look at cigarettes- lawmakers have been turning the screws on smoking for 60 YEARS - there's zero benefit to it other than some people have a preference for the habit. Why isn't it banned yet? Very difficult to do. And while it MAY work in a couple of countries and actually stick, it's not the way here.
    RE EVs- IMO the U.S. will NEVER ban IC vehicles. I actually do mean "never" on this one.

    I agree with you on this too.

    I more on the 'lets see what the Joe Public wants' on this EV thing in North America.  But, something in the back of my mind tells me that the US will follow suit like the rest of the world sooner or later. 

    Maybe not by governmental banning of ICE cars, because in America, we like our so called freedoms and we certainly do not want big government telling us what to do and meddling with our lives...but by sheer peer pressure. 

     

    9 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

    older guys who don't get laid enough

    Truer words were never said.  ?

     

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    3 hours ago, ocnblu said:

    If I had a Bolt I could not have made it home from my 250 mile road trip today.  And... if there were a charging station between here and there, I would not be home yet.  Not anxiety, just fact.

    On new years eve eve i attempted to drive my mom up and back 5 hours each way and ran into terrible roads, ice and weather.  I didn't have time to charge a car, and i ultimately got stuck a couple hours from home and had to spend the night.  the storm unleashed like a winter storm does with huge cold, wind etc.  the type of stuff electrics has to demonstrate you lose no range, reliability, or ability to find fuel and refuel anywhere in all those harsh conditions.  Much of the US is a north climate state and people who live in that climate won't compromise on their vehicle's ability to perform in terrible / unsafe conditions.

    face it, if they can incorporate full electrics / autonomous, they could conceivably control your car a lot easier.  i.e. take over your car and you give up your freedom on how you want to drive.  that is indeed part of the plan I bet.

    35 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

    Closer to a 4 hour trip...but that 3 hour statement was to make a...point....in a jokingly fashion. But there was a point being made...

    Point being, when traveling, 4-5-6-7 hours by car. Its exactly THAT...4-5-6-7 hours on the road. 

    If you are in a hurry. Travel by airplane.

    If you dont want the hassles of stopping to pee, or charging up...travel by train...

    If you take the bloody time to travel by car...4-5-6-7 hours, you invest 4-5-6--7 hours of your life on the road....45 minutes to pee and/or to charge up/fuel up is a NON-ISSUE! 

    You could make up all kinds of deterrents in your head, in reality, there are none! 

    THAT is the point. 

    Where do you need to go and that quickly for 250 miles that a 45 minute piss stop or charge up would be an issue for you?

    You are already on the road for 4-5-6-7 hours...obviously an extra 45 minutes to piss, or to charge up aint a big deal...

    You could make into a big deal deterrent, I suppose.  But it really aint!

     

    45 minutes is unacceptable as car travel is cheaper than plane and takes less time and you don't have to get searched by dolts at the airport.  

     

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    10 minutes ago, regfootball said:

     

    45 minutes is unacceptable as car travel is cheaper than plane and takes less time and you don't have to get searched by dolts at the airport.  

     

    You could think its unacceptable...I wont argue with you. I aint here to tell you how to think or how to live your life. You could live your life the way you want to. 

    But in reality. It aint a problem...

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    Just now, oldshurst442 said:

    You could think its unacceptable...I wont argue with you. I aint here to tell you how to think or how to live your life. You could live your life the way you want to. 

    But in reality. It aint a problem...

    if you and your spouse worked a full day and to keep schedule, needed to haul family of four on a 4 or five hour trip up to grand dads for a family function the next morning. You would want to make as short of drive as possible.  you can go 300 miles on your gas tank and no one needs 45 minutes to pee.  the 45 minutes to plug in an electric is a major inconvenience and extends a day even longer.  if you were driving from omaha to the black hills if you add two or three charging stops to your trip you are adding 2 hours of time that no one has.

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    12 minutes ago, regfootball said:

    if you and your spouse worked a full day and to keep schedule, needed to haul family of four on a 4 or five hour trip up to grand dads for a family function the next morning. You would want to make as short of drive as possible.  you can go 300 miles on your gas tank and no one needs 45 minutes to pee.  the 45 minutes to plug in an electric is a major inconvenience and extends a day even longer.  if you were driving from omaha to the black hills if you add two or three charging stops to your trip you are adding 2 hours of time that no one has.

     Like I said..take a plane.

    Take a train.

    But now...you are just trying to FIND a kink in the EV thing.  Giving me hypothetical problems...that is why Im giving you hypothetical solutions...

    And...if you and your spouse WORKED ALL DAY...

    The BEST thing to do is NOT DRIVE AT ALL...

    You wouldnt want to endanger the lives of your kids while traveling...battery powered or gasoline powered.  Driving while being tired AND on a stressed scheduled is just begging for disaster to strike. 

    There is NEVER a good reason to put you, your loved ones and others in danger just for the sake of making "good time".

    That is why a plane ride is the way to go if you feel the need to get to where you are going in a limited amount of time.

    Money problems for taking a plane...

    You know what? 

    Take a good night sleep and leave in the morning if you really need to drive...EV or not! 

    But stretching out different scenarios to prove me wrong...like I said, in reality, it aint a problem unless you want it to be... 

    And that is fine. It is your opinion for 45 minutes of charge up time too long for you.  

    But in reality, it aint... 

    Edited by oldshurst442
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    16 hours ago, ocnblu said:

    Wait did I read that right?  CHARGERS ACROSS AMERICA?

    2019-Dodge-Charger-A3_o.jpg

    Yes of course, just as I envisioned.  One platform for every purpose.  Could it be that GM is actually studying how Power Wheels does things, and not Tesla?  A common chassis, and just drop a silhouette on top?  Wow, so much excitement, and individuality is in store./not

    It may be old, but still love em’

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    So maybe Johann got the CT6 and hot vee blackwing motor approved and then was told they were scrapping it. Maybe he had an Escala type CT7 in play. And maybe then he got the news that the new mob at GM wanted to axe  it all. Probably said screw this and bye. Meanwhile Cadillac has to stretch an XT5 into an XT6 to hope for some sales volume. Have to sell some crossovers in order to raid the coffers to fund electrics. There are gas stations every few miles off the interstate. Would really like to see what the plan is for adding dozens of electric chargers at every Holiday and Qwik Trip before they put all these new electrics on sale. Shouldn’t the chargers be in place when they want to sell the cars ?  

     

     

    How is this even relevant. They just introduced the XT6. Holy crap it’s terrible. Must be why they introduced this news on EV’s. To take your attention away from how comically terrible the XT6 is.

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    9 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

    45 minutes to pee

    !!!!!  :roflmao:  Hypothetically speaking... HOW MANY BIG GULPS HAVE I DOWNED HERE?  Also my prostate is not in that bad a shape.  You are so funny!

    Edited by ocnblu
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    • The grand plan was a separate new service to the house of 200 amps so that the garage would have plenty of power for charging multiple EVs and I would have a separate bill each cycle for knowing what I was spending for EV driving. Waking up in the morning to a full charge of power and never having to stop at a gas station due to having a Level 2, 240-volt home charger is a luxury everyone should have allowing you to smile as you drive by a gas station with folks outside dealing with their fueling. The ultimate perk of EV ownership.  I started with reaching out to my local utility and inquiring of the process for a new service. My local utility was more than accommodating in helping me out with the details. As an engineer that loves to learn, this process was very eye opening into the costs, lack of efficiencies by agencies and electrical contractors with a surprising ending to my eventual solution. Let's start off by making one thing clear, every state has their own regulations in regard to electrical. While the USA follows the national electrical code as a starting point, each state, county and city then adds their own additions or subtractions to the code. Always make sure to follow your local code no matter if you hire a company, independent contractor or are a DIY (Do it Yourself) type of person. Full information on the national electrical code can be found here:  The National Electrical Code (NEC) - Electrical Safety Foundation (esfi.org) Another thing to point out is every state has their own way of dealing with electrical supply and competition. As such, some states allow their end users to pick among competitive electrical suppliers even to the point of choosing to use Green Energy (Solar, Wind, and or Hydro) or not (Coal, Natural Gas, Nuclear). Other states tend to regulate this down to the city and or county within a state. Washington state is a regulated power supply state so that depending on the county you live in; you deal with your county or the state power supplier. Washington state has one of the greenest electrical grides in the country. It produces 7,816 MWh of electricity and it breaks down as follows: Figures as of May 16th, 2024 Petroleum-Fired - 0% Natural Gas - 21.3% Coal-Fired - 3.9% Nuclear 10.3% Renewables - 64.1% (Hydro, Wind, Solar & Ocean) Fueling Stations in Washington State: Motor Gasoline - 1,846 Stations Propane - 64 Stations EV Charging - 2,153 stations E85 - 5 stations Biodiesel, CNG, & Other Alternatives - 8 stations If you wish to check out your own state information you can do so here by clicking on your state:  U.S. Energy Information Administration - EIA - Independent Statistics and Analysis Starting off on my project I had decided to go ahead with a ChargePoint+ Home Flex Hardwired solution. Yes, there are a wide variety of good home chargers that run from $250 to $2000 dollars such as the Porsche home charger. Home Flex Hardwired Level 2 EV Charger (chargepoint.com) The choice of this charger was based on the following: Some of the best reviews out there by thousands of people Hardwired allowed me the best power supply available to the EV building in future protection as newer EV tech comes online. ChargePoint sells both CCS and NACS supply cords, making upgrades from my current EV with CCS to a future EV with NACS easy as a self-Upgrade to the charger. ChargePoint app allows for use both at their fast-charging network and to track my own use and cost. You can find a large diverse choice of L1 and L2 chargers on Amazon or from other sources. Many utilities will have rebates if you purchase through your local utility or in the case of my own system, I had to file a rebate form as my charger was on the approved list, but not available from my utility. ChargePoint+ also points out that till 2032 you might be able to qualify for a $1,000 rebate from the federal government. Electric Vehicle (EV) Charging Incentives | ChargePoint Now that I have covered some of the basics about electrical and power source, lets dive into my journey for a Level 2 Home Charger. Karl at the Snohomish PUD sent me a form that I had to fill out, this was a "New Service Residential Request" form. Here I had to fill out the normal details such as my house address, current status of the electrical to the home, type of new service being requested, pictures of where the service would need to be connected to the house and where I wanted the service panel to be, etc. This form had an area for requested measurements from the house to the utility pole, gross measurements of where the wiring would need to go so that the service could be sized up accordingly. The last part was the direction from my PUD on checking with the city for any additional requirements. For those wanting to see what the new service request form looks like I supply it here: 1097R_NSQres.pdf City requirements were that any electrical changes to the existing structure that comprised more than 10% cost of the home improvement value as assessed by the county required that the electrical lines from the utility pole to the house be installed underground rather than overhead. Luckily for me, my estimated costs would be under this so I was not looking to have to figure this into the cost of adding the service or so I thought. Karl at SNOPUD said he would do the assessment and have out to me the updated info shortly. In the meantime, I reached out to a couple of recommended electrical companies from the SNOPUD website and a few independent electricians to get estimates on the work to be done. Specifically, I wanted two quotes, first is the all-new service added to the house with dedicated panel feeding the garage. Second was updating the existing panel to support a charger in the garage using my existing service. Here I was expecting a $5 to $6 thousand dollar install connection for the first service and based on the auto industry estimate of around $1,500 to $2,000 for the second. Boy was I off by a bunch. All the estimates from both the electrical companies I contacted, and the independent contractors had the new service install between $10 to $12 thousand dollars and the existing services was between $4,700 to $6,200. This also did not include the connection to the PUD. Here I was informed from Karl at SNOPUD that the service could be done but would require a new transformer to our cul-d-sac to support the added amperage pull. As such, this was more than just a wire connection but an outage to the cul-d-sac ending in an almost $15,000 charge. Who knew that adding a service where you pay them for the flow of electricity would have such a huge cost and impact on my project. This put the cost of a new service between $25,000 to $27,000 dollars. So much for the Auto Industry estimates of $1,500 to $2,000 dollars and it also did not include the required $125.00 electrical permit I would have to get from the city and inspection. I did keep in mind that the price of electrical work varies based on the cost of labor where one lives, power of the charger, distance from the charger to the electrical panel along with the job complexity. What about DIY (Do it Yourself), could I do this job myself and what would the cost be? First, I knew from all the quotes that I was greatly under my 200-amp service pull as I have Gas stove, Dryer, Water heater and Furnace. As such, the 240V 30-to-50-amp circuits that are in my panel are not being used at all. One of the independent electricians had stated that the cheapest way would be to pull an existing circuit breaker and run the wire into the panel with the new Circuit breaker, but most electricians did not like leaving existing wires from outlets in the panel even if they were sealed off, they just did not like doing this, so everyone had quoted based on adding a secondary panel. With this information, I researched from the ChargePoint+ website on installing the hardwired charger I had purchased from them. ChargePoint+ has installation videos and covers all the information on installation as well as becoming a certified installation expert. ChargePoint Home Resources | ChargePoint ChargePoint Home Flex (CPH50) Hardwired Installation Video | ChargePoint Become a Certified ChargePoint Installer | ChargePoint From the website above I gathered the following information on the materials that I would need. Conduit large enough to hold the wiring Brackets to attach the conduit and screws 90-degree wire access conduit Associated pipe nipple for connection into the panel Insulated bushing Appropriate washer and locknut for connection to the panel 6 AWG wiring Black, Red and Green wires per code ChargePoint+ clearly states to use 6AWG for their Level 2 Charger installation. 6 AWG wire stripper 70amp circuit breaker Some states require these to be Arc or GFCI for indoor or outdoor, national code for outdoor installation is a GFCI breaker upstream from the outdoor installation. Check local regulations for proper type required. Make sure to get the proper type of circuit breaker for your panel, I had D block circuits. Ground Fault Circuit Interrupters vs. Arc Fault Circuit Interrupters - Bob Vila Torque Screwdriver set Most do not know that depending on the size of the circuit breaker, when you connect the wiring to the breaker, the screws must be torqued to a certain range. The 70amp circuits per the side of the breaker states 45 in. lbs. Paintable caulking to seal both access points into the house for the charger. With having my list of materials, I choose to first compare prices online from Home Depot and Lowe's. What I found was that Home Depot was much higher in the cost of the wiring, but cheaper in conduit, circuit breakers and accessories. Lucky, I have both home improvement stores within a 2-mile radius of my house. What I also noticed was that neither home improvement store had the required tools I would need, so clearly, I would have to stop off at my local Harbor Freight tool store. Harbor Freight Tools | Quality Tools, Lowest Prices With the knowledge of what I needed and a shopping list, I headed out and accomplished the following: Electrical Permit from my city.  Wiring from Lowe's - Lowe’s Home Improvement (lowes.com) Conduit, circuit breaker and accessories from Home Depot - The Home Depot Tools from Harbor Freight tools company - Harbor Freight Tools | Quality Tools, Lowest Prices Opening up the electrical panel as you can see here, I have my household 200amp circuit at the top. This will kill power to everything in the house, below this was the kitchen and laundry room 240V circuit and then on down throughout the rest of the house to the garage with various circuits. At this point, I knew that I would be turning off the 200amp circuit to work on this panel and protect the rest of the house. Note to point out is that when you turn off this 200amp circuit, the power is not flowing to the rest of the panel, but you still have the power coming from the street to this panel and so there is live electricity in that 200amp circuit. One must always be cautious when working with electrical. One safety thing to do, remove ALL jewelry, watches, phones, etc. Have nothing on you that is electrical or any kind of metal and that includes a wedding ring. All these are places that can cause an electrical jump / short that can cause you harm. As one that grew up working on auto's and having great respect for the electrical system of auto's, homes, datacenters, etc. there are some things that I do not have a problem doing. In this case I kept the power to the house on while I pulled the panel cover off. A proper panel should have all the wires in 90 degrees to the circuit breakers and to the grounding / neutral bars that are silver in this case. Here I have not had any manipulation of the box done with patchwork electrical hacks. It is always best to learn the details or hire the proper person to do your electrical work. Being that I am comfortable with pulling out the circuit breaker that is turned off, I choose to pull and replace the 240V 30-amp laundry room circuit. Here in this picture, you can see it removed and a better view of the grounding / neutral bar of the electrical panel. At this point, I wanted to pull out the punch of where I was going to run the new electrical lines into the panel. Once I pulled out the punch, I drilled a small starter hole from the inside to the outside so I could line up properly the larger drill bit for the incoming conduit. Upon drilling, I attached the pipe nipple extension to the 90-degree wire access conduit, and I inserted it through the outside wall. Here I put on the washer, lock nut and insulated bushing as you can see here. Now the next step was to install the conduit, some love their hard conduit and gluing it together as it comes in 10ft lengths, and you then have to either use a special heater tool to bend the hard conduit or buy the proper pieces that are curved. I choose to go with liquid proof flexible commercial conduit. The benefit here is that while this is a bit more expensive, the flexibility of the line makes it so much easier to install. One thing no matter what type of conduit you choose to use is that one has to run the electrical lines through the conduit. Hard conduit can be with tight bends very challenging to run the electrical lines unless you have a special tool that allows you to snake through the conduit, attach the electrical lines and then it uses an electrical motor to pull it. I choose to run my flexible conduit out in a straight line, and I had pushed through my three 6awg lines through it so that I had the wire already in the conduit. Now this does make the conduit much heavier to install, but I found it faster and easier to do it this way. You will also notice that I have a Black, White and Green wire rather than the code dictating a Black, Red and Green wire. Both Lowe's and Home Depot were out at the time of purchase the red 6awg wire. So, I did what is allowed and that is on the ends of the wire at both ends, I wrapped them with red electrical tape. I started with connecting the liquid tight end connector to the flexible conduit and attaching it to the 90 degree wire access to the panel. I pushed the wires through to the inside and reattached the liquid tight cover and then started using the brackets to attach the conduit to the house. Two things to consider, one is the over all look of the installation, sometimes the cheapest approach is not the best especially when it comes to ones significant other, wife, partner, etc., not everyone likes to see conduit. I choose to do my best to minimize the visibility of the conduit and once I paint it to match the house it will truly not show up as the wife never noticed it when she came home till after I showed here. Upon installation of the conduit with the 6 AWG wires, it was time to mount the home charger in my designated place. Here you need to make sure it is level, supported by the wall which can sometimes require additional bracing. Here you see my ChargePoint+ unit being installed on the wall. With the charger installed onto the wall, I finished up the connection of the conduit / wires into the unit. Connected the electrical supply side and the charging cable side and reinstalled the cover. With the installation of the charger unit and wiring done, it was time to focus on the circuit breaker installation side. Here I had an LED head light as I finally turned off the 200-amp circuit breaker to the house. I attached the red and black wires to the circuit breaker, installed the ground wire and then installed the circuit breaker into the panel. I also at this time wrapped each wire from the laundry outlet in proper electrical tap and a wire twist to add additional protection and secured them out of the way in the panel corner. I also at this time used my torque screwdriver to ensure proper torque on the wires. With the installation completed at the panel side, I turned back on the 200-amp circuit enabling the house to have power and was time to go enable the charger unit. Here ChargePoint+ has an outstanding cellphone app to enable you to finish up the setup of the charger. I was able to connect to the unit via WiFi and set the unit to 70 amp circuit hardwired. I also then connected it to my house WiFi for internet access. This allowed me to do a update on the unit for software. Here ChargePoint has on the left side of the unit indicators for WiFi connection. Green is good and as you can see in the picture above, I have WiFi connection and the alert is showing green so no issues with the charger. Upon using the regular ChargePoint software app on my smartphone I was able to complete setting up an account and final configuration of my charger as a home charger unit. The unit is green when not in use but ready to be used. During Charging the unit is a pulsing blue. At this point, I had a functional Level 2 240V 50amp hardwired home EV charger with CCS connector. What did this cost me, simple a total of $1,032.23 Level 2 ChargePoint+ Home Flex hardwired charger: $549.99 plus $54.99 sales tax before $200.00 rebate. Total Cost of Materials: $391.77 which was from Home Depot & Lowe's. Tools bought for the job: $110.48 which comprised of a 6 AWG wire striper and a Torque Screwdriver set from Harbor Freight. Electrical Permit: $125 from the city. Best part of this is the cheap charging we get at home at .10 cents per kW. The ChargePoint app allows me to track and monitor in real time our costs and amount used, so it will make it easy to subtract it from the electrical bill to see the house use versus the EV. The app shows that I am constantly at the 11kW controller capabilities of home charging from Kia. This brings me back to why I titled this the Good, Bad and the Ugly. New Service request is the ugly as the costs of the new service from my power supplier has costs that have never been talked about before to me and I still have to pay for the electrical use which makes this the ugly when you are looking at a five figure cost. The bad is clearly adding the new service panel and the associated costs to an electrical company to do the work, pretty much double what the auto industry has stated having a Level 2 home charger installed would actually cost. Good is for those of you who are willing to learn and do the work, a DIY install is in my humble opinion a very cheap way to go even though it did take a chunk of my time, I have no regrets about learning the process to install and dealing with my city on installation. End result is a quality home charger that will serve me well for many years. Please post any questions or comments, happy to respond on this personal journey into home charging of my EV. View full article
    • Tongue and Groove is best! For the Computer Nerds here:
    • One thing leads to another ... having one Alphaville song in my music collection leads to being clue in to another.  These German guys - meaning Alphaville - are good. "Big in Japan" This is quintessentially '80s all the way around, which is just fine!
    • Man cave type jokes since that would describe most of the active members ... here's an oldie but goodie: Did you hear about the two lesbians who built a house? They used no studs ... it was all tongue and groove.
    • This road test of the Citroen C5 was the result of a serious upgrade in a rental at a Sicilian airport.   I’ve been assigned a smaller Citroen C3 at this very airport before – when the AirBump feature was novel and unusual - and remarked on its excellent ride and easy handling. The C5 is quite a few steps up.  Mostly, it’s all good.  This is a heavier vehicle and, along with that, the ride is like that of a bank fault.  It’s smooth, quiet, and isolated.  In some ways, it is perhaps too isolated.  By this, I mean that road feel is a little compromised owing to its very soft ride, and there is too much assist in the steering.  I noticed this upon taking out of the rental agency’s lot and through its narrow alleyways. It reminded me of an American boulevardier more so than the European SUV that it is.  It firms up some on the open road.  It’s at slow speeds that it feels way more "electric" – the way electric felt when there was the palpable adjustment we all had to make from hydraulic steering. This C5 had a diesel engine, but it was almost hard to tell that.  It is a turbo charged 4-cylinder engine.  The mileage was excellent.  It returned about 43 mpg in a combination of driving – mostly highway driving but with some small town and arduous mountain two lane road driving.  The transmission is a geared automatic unit and has 8 gears.  The shifts are extremely soft, which I feel is mostly a good thing, and suited to the C5.  The only time it’s clear that it’s geared is when pushing down the pedal – just because - or to pass. The C5 is powerful enough and certainly has the torque to sustain grades and demanding conditions.  However, passing seems to be a variable situation.  It almost seems to depend on the speed and the grade.  In most situations, it does so fairly easily.  High speed passes require some strategizing, and, in a few rare cases, it seemed better to avoid them.  In maintaining high speeds on the autostrada, it does so effortlessly and stably.  You might not have an idea how fast you’re going (114 km = 70 mph, and, on a few occasions, there were some 120 kms and 130 kms where the “bank vault” feeling didn’t let on that this was the actual speed). The workmanship is quite good.  The seats had centralized cloth surfaces with bolsters and side construction of either leather or leatherette.  There is stitching that is attractive and taut.  The C5 is ideal and comfortable for long hauls.  Front seat comfort and leg room is more than adequate, and rear seat leg room is acceptable.  Rear storage space is capacious, and this is without folding forward the rear seats.  The small lift-up area for the tire well provides for some additional storage and symmetrical small cubbies on the sides of the rear storage area can come in handy. Except for the diagonal edge on the infotainment center screen (a pet peeve), I really liked the volumes of the dashboard. Everything was nicely crafted.  Linear gauges for fuel and temperature seem to be the thing these days and, although nice, it would be easier if they indicated critical zones in orange and/or red.  The audio quality appeared to be good.  Also, setting up Bluetooth and keeping Android Auto going seemed easy. The console, which opens lengthwise in the middle, is both unusual and large.  The air conditioning works quickly.  In concert with liking the volumes of the dashboard, the number and placement of vents worked well to distribute the cool air.  Ahead of the console are two ergonomically placed cupholders and all the switches for key operating functions ahead of them reflect quality workmanship and are easy to operate. These would include the pushbutton engine start button, the transmission lever, the drive mode selector, and the parking brake.  That said, I found operating some of these features on a rented (and reviewed) BMW Series II Gran Coupe less intuitive.  In general, I liked everything about day in-day out living in this C5 more than in the fussier BMW Gran Coupe.  However, with its lower framework and Germanic underpinnings, the BMW really shone for its roadability and the sense of control it offered. The C5’s silhouette is not that captivating.  However, they work around the “chunkiness” and this can be seen from the interior.  I was surprised at how good rear visibility is.  The seating position is high and commanding relative to the road.  In tight spaces, the tabletop look of the hood ahead of the windshield doesn’t have clearly defined ridges and is harder to work with.  It appears wide for the genre.  Thankfully, the parking assist feature and other traffic sensors were fairly sensitive. I asked a friend who likes cars and rents them often in Europe what he thought of the major French brands.  He ranked them as follows: Citroen, Peugeot, and then Renault.  This vehicle speaks well to the Citroen brand and also aligned with what I’ve experienced among these brands. For a person with a little extra money and who needs the space, a supple ride, and its “thickness” all the way around, the Citroen C5 is a good choice.  On a few occasions, its vagueness annoyed me, but that wasn’t too often.  It was challenging to operate on a few narrower Sicilian streets and alleys, but that would apply to narrow streets and parking lots anywhere.  For some, this C5 could check most, if not all, of the boxes. - - - - - PHOTOS FORTHCOMING
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