I think Tesla will be in big trouble when Lincoln and Benz and Cadillac start bringing Electrics.

Or...it could be a paradigm shift and they are able to ride the wave. Not sure.

I REALLY HOPE that they shock everyone with a Escalade EV. They will have me putting money down if they do.

@A Horse With No Name Are these car pictures for the Random thread or to make a point here on electrics? 🤔

4 minutes ago, dfelt said:

I REALLY HOPE that they shock everyone with a Escalade EV. They will have me putting money down if they do.

@A Horse With No Name Are these car pictures for the Random thread or to make a point here on electrics? 🤔

Give eye candy to a thread..bored on break. Probably should be in Random thoughts...

17 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Give eye candy to a thread..bored on break. Probably should be in Random thoughts...

Then in that case lets put in the proper eye candy of what an AWESOME EV lineup could look like.

Urban Commuter

So many awesome EV possibilities! 

Gorgeous...and always down for a little automotive eye candy!

5 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Gorgeous...and always down for a little automotive eye candy!

Imagine how big that Frunk would be on the Ciel with as an EV plus a huge trunk.

45 minutes ago, dfelt said:

Imagine how big that Frunk would be on the Ciel with as an EV plus a huge trunk.

Like the Porsche Boxter and Cayman...two trunks.

38 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Like the Porsche Boxter and Cayman...two trunks.

Best part about this is that I believe many of the Cadillac's I have posted above would slip through the air with minimal resistance and be a silent stealthy luxury ride with tight handling that I would be proud to own.

Those styles prove we do not need an ugly auto like Tesla. Tesla has amazing technology, but their style is anything but pleasing to me.

I noticed that for the most part, that while Tesla puts a HP figure on their base home screen for their auto's, when you look at the specification page everything is metric. I also noticed that Atlis and Rivian is doing this.

I wonder if Cadillac will take the risk of going metric rather than sticking with the old standard system? 🤔

Mark Reuss has spent his whole career at GM.  He has been at the helm a good while, he hasn't helped to save Cadillac yet, so I wouldn't exactly bank on the cast of characters that led Cadillac to where they are, getting them out of it.  And yes Johan and Bob Lutz are gone, but once upon a time GM thought those guys were saviors, then they dropped them to have someone to blame for Cadillac's failures.

EV is the future, they have to go all in on it.  But you still have a brand image issue, BMW and Mercedes are still BMW and Mercedes and Tesla is the hot brand.  They can build EV's but you have to convince people to buy Cadillacs still, and we are nearing 20 years of "renaissance" and no improvement in sales, mostly everyone else has grown while they shrank.

Well as said before here by @Cmicasa the Great nice talk Reussy, but you introduce a V8 for your most luxo sedan and the wave of interest and sold out in hours single highhandedly saved the car. Go figure.

As much as the LF3 is great, I bet if the ATS-V had a V8 option too, and maybe just a little nicer interior - you would have Camaro buyers upgrading to it potentially, a fire breathing German killer, and a wicked fast furious car...except now with the option of matching soundtrack.

This electric stand is an option. But I bet that certain buyers will still pay top money for a real combustion engine with big displacement and no fewer than 8 cyclinders.

Nobody said that Cadillac should drop the V8.  Cadillac should build a GREAT V8, better than anything that can be found in a Camaro or even a Corvette.

They already build it! Now get it to market and put it in a real product. Imagine if the XT6 was RWD and had Black Wing. Escalade is for cowboys, while XT6 for the sophisticates...who am I kidding it's for suburban families, with a high mix of female drivers...

Ah if only. I mean you can always pretend that it's a high performance piece because Cadillac....

But I doubt how Cadillac can truly differentiate again...like Porshce, BMW, they're all getting EVs. At that point Cadillac must be alluring and build a no compromise vehicle that will court the naysayers and kill the haterz. And sell plenty in China to be viable, that's not even an option.

16 hours ago, dfelt said:

Imagine how big that Frunk would be on the Ciel with as an EV plus a huge trunk.

Lame, lame lame.  Absolutely the worst.

FAR too much sameness with electrics.  NO differentiation under the skin.  It is what's UNDER the skin that gives a vehicle real, memorable character.  There is nothing memorable about the boring hum of an electric motor, whirring autonomously into oblivion.

14 hours ago, dfelt said:

I noticed that for the most part, that while Tesla puts a HP figure on their base home screen for their auto's, when you look at the specification page everything is metric. I also noticed that Atlis and Rivian is doing this.

I believe it's merely a gimmick: 50 Nm = 37 lb-ft.  It bumps the numbers.

19 hours ago, dfelt said:

Imagine how big that Frunk would be on the Ciel with as an EV plus a huge trunk.

Well this is the goal. I have zero issue with this, but like I pointed out in the Henry Ford quote about the "better horse" some will fight tooth and nail to still be able to smell exhaust from a ICE. I have a friend who absolutely will not stop traditional smoking cigarettes even tho both his mom, dad, and uncle have lung cancer or died from lung cancer. His old lady even proposed that he use the E-Cigarettes, but he refuses because they just aren't the same. Quoting possible negative effects of them to try and justify the absolute known effects of Newports. That is basically what we have in OcnBlue😂

Cadillac's move to EV is not a gimmick nor is it its "last chance." Its the last frontier for all makers..and I think that was what Reuss was saying.. not that Cadillac is dead if consumers don't take hold of EVs for the brand in record sales numbers. If Cadillac just wanted record sales.. all they would have had to do or do.. is badge engineer existing Chevy models in a way that addresses all of its competitors. As I said.. GM has the supply.. the tech.. the capability, but refuses to utilize it while sitting in the Silos wondering why Mercedes or Audi have 13-16 vehicles, and minimum 4 variants of each.. versus their 6 vehicles and maybe 2 variants.. are beating them in sales and awareness. Its bewildering to say the least. Example.

EClass comes in E-Class Coupe, E-Class Sedan, E-Class Convertible, E-Class AMG and I believe an E-Class Wagon. Each one of them have a "VSport" for all intents under the name AMG53= 46,422

CTS comes in CTS Sedan, CTS V 2018 Sales 11,219 (i'll throw in XTS sales since they were same price. 17,727 and the E-Class couples its sales with the CLS) = 28,946

Go figure. 

Here we go.. U , GM , can make a Camaro coupe and convertible on the same platform as the CTS and ATS but can't make one for the CTS and ATS. Could that have generated, all those variants matched to what Benz has, another 17K sales? I'm betting yes.. or damn close. I would have certainly been in line trading my CTS-V in for a CTS-V Coupe.. no different than I did in 2012 when I traded my '09 CTS Sedan for my '12 V Coupe

5 hours ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Well this is the goal. I have zero issue with this, but like I pointed out in the Henry Ford quote about the "better horse" some will fight tooth and nail to still be able to smell exhaust from a ICE. I have a friend who absolutely will not stop traditional smoking cigarettes even tho both his mom, dad, and uncle have lung cancer or died from lung cancer. His old lady even proposed that he use the E-Cigarettes, but he refuses because they just aren't the same. Quoting possible negative effects of them to try and justify the absolute known effects of Newports. That is basically what we have in OcnBlue

No (Cmicasa the) greatness in this paragraph.  You have to own shares, that is the only sane explanation for falling in line so easily behind Barra & Co's mission to destroy whatever made GM great in the past, before the years leading up to bankruptcy.  Oh well, when they go under, I will remember them fondly for their PROUD history, before this 10-year apology tour/retreat from their home soil.  Other companies will make up the slack.

5 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

No (Cmicasa the) greatness in this paragraph.  You have to own shares, that is the only sane explanation for falling in line so easily behind Barra & Co's mission to destroy whatever made GM great in the past, before the years leading up to bankruptcy.  Oh well, when they go under, I will remember them fondly for their PROUD history, before this 10-year apology tour/retreat from their home soil.  Other companies will make up the slack.

Can't U see... Can't U seeeee.. In order for GM to survive they need to be able to compete in a techno word. ICEs are those horses... Now imagine if in 1909 Billy Durant had of decided to not pursue the formation of Buick, Cadillac, and Olds into General Motors.. but had instead decided, like U, to call upon Hugo de Vries and Carl Correns (lead geneticists at the time) and push them to develop a better, more powerful horse... I have it on good authority that Henry Ford would have left him in the dust.. and GM would have filed BK in 1911. 

Also.. no one is saying, not even GM, that the ICE is dead at their company. This is a migration which will take over a decade or more for all of those engines to phased out. If calamity comes.. GM, being one of the most resilient corporations on record, will simply un-shelve those beloved ICEs, and re-insert

The movie Money Ball, and this scene, eerily sums up this conversation...And this movie is truly based on real life events on how the Oakland A's did things with analytics.  

Grady being Blu and Billy being, well, the future of electric vehicle production...

Adapt or die.  

And like @Cmicasa the Great  said. If electrics dont work out, but they will, GM will just revert to be building ICE cars again. 

The memo is this though. GM will not stop producing ICE. GM will just stop producing cars that dont sell.  GM's press conference just before the Detroit autoshow did say that GM has made itself the world's most successful CUV/SUV producer and seller!!!

And if you hadnt noticed, those successful CUVs/SUVs ALL have ICE in them!!!

10 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

And like @Cmicasa the Great  said. If electrics dont work out, but they will, GM will just revert to be building ICE cars again. 

The memo is this though. GM will not stop producing ICE. GM will just stop producing cars that dont sell.  GM's press conference just before the Detroit autoshow did say that GM has made itself the world's most successful CUV/SUV producer and seller!!!

And if you hadnt noticed, those successful CUVs/SUVs ALL have ICE in them!!!

GM crossover deliveries totaled 1,034,808 in 2018, up 7 percent versus 2017, and the following five nameplates had record calendar year sales: GM PRESS

4 hours ago, ocnblu said:

No (Cmicasa the) greatness in this paragraph.  You have to own shares, that is the only sane explanation for falling in line so easily behind Barra & Co's mission to destroy whatever made GM great in the past, before the years leading up to bankruptcy.  Oh well, when they go under, I will remember them fondly for their PROUD history, before this 10-year apology tour/retreat from their home soil.  Other companies will make up the slack.

Blinded by the PAST, you fail to see the future and survive. Companies that live in the past die. Many great companies in the US did that, GM is looking to the future to survive. FCA, will die as will any company that tries to stick to the past. Rest in Peace!

16 hours ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

In order for GM to survive they need to be able to compete in a techno word. ICEs are those horses... Now imagine if in 1909 Billy Durant had of decided to not pursue the formation of Buick, Cadillac, and Olds into General Motors.. but had instead decided, like U, to call upon Hugo de Vries and Carl Correns (lead geneticists at the time) and push them to develop a better, more powerful horse... I have it on good authority that Henry Ford would have left him in the dust.. and GM would have filed BK in 1911.

EV vs. ICE is not like the auto vs. the horse. It's like 1 breed of horse vs. another breed of horse you merely give different feed. Functionally & physically they're the same, just like EV/ICEs.
- - - - -
Ask yourself this : why doesn't Mercedes (2 mill global sales) handily outsell it's mainstream rival 😉 toyota (10 mil)? It's supposedly a better automobile and mercedes would HAPPILY sell 10 or even 15 million if they could. Why -like their tagline from the early '00s- isn't there a mercedes in every driveway??

The answer is price- the Dec '17 ATP of a toyoyo was $33,9xx. This is the market limitation of EVs- they're almost all in the luxury price tier and the ones announced for future production are likewise in very elevated price tiers. How are OEMs going to move 98% or even 50% of the market into the luxury price tier? 'Battery prices are coming down' doesn't come close to answering that, and we've seen Tesla only raise pricing/refuse to build an 'affordable' model. If they can't do it being the #1 EV brand, how will any other brands do it?

EV will NOT become a mainstream sector without addressing pricing. And I've yet to see evidence they can.

8 hours ago, dfelt said:

Blinded by the PAST, you fail to see the future and survive. Companies that live in the past die. Many great companies in the US did that, GM is looking to the future to survive. FCA, will die as will any company that tries to stick to the past. Rest in Peace!

Regardless of the superior ICE to inferior EV argument, GM is still (and has been) in retreat mode.  They are retreating from their home soil.  Plenty of people with long memories are not pleased by this fact.

5 hours ago, ocnblu said:

Regardless of the superior ICE to inferior EV argument, GM is still (and has been) in retreat mode.  They are retreating from their home soil.  Plenty of people with long memories are not pleased by this fact.

More like retreating to their home soil...GM has given up on a lot of their worldwide operations with the sale of Opel, etc.