Intrepidation

More proof GM doesn't know what it's doing: CTS-V not bound for Europe

80 posts in this topic

large.jpg

CTS: no V

The Cadillac CTS is heading to the UK in September... but we won't see the mental V8-powered CTS-V. Ever. Boo.

Less boo, however, are the prices: the 'entry-level' 2.8-litre V6 version of the CTS weighs in at £26,995, while the bigger 3.6-litre V6 starts at £32,995.

Not bad for something that's close to the BMW 5-Series in size, and you get plenty of kit for your cash, too: internal hard drive, DVD player, sat nav and TV tuner, as well as leather bits and a neat set of 18-inch alloys.

But what the good lord GM giveth with one hand, he taketh with t'other. It's looking highly unlikely we'll see the CTS-V in the UK, with Cadillac chiefs arguing that the big V8 isn't viable for European markets.

Which is a pity... we were rather looking to an M5 v RS6 v E63 v CTS-V shootout. If not the ensuing fuel bills.

Source: Top Gear

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honestly, if this is true, what the hell are they thinking? The CTS-V is Cadillac's chance to finally take on the Europeans and crush them, finally earning it some respect.

Proof once more GM doesn't know what it's doing.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Honestly, if this is true, what the hell are they thinking? The CTS-V is Cadillac's chance to finally take on the Europeans and crush them, finally earning it some respect.

Proof once more GM doesn't know what it's doing.

GM probably figured that a couple dozen sales a year wasn't worth the cost of getting it into those markets. Which is too bad, because it seems the UK esp. is the most fanatical market for super sedans like the AMGs, BMW Ms, Audi RSes, etc...

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

GM doesn't know how to design global cars and that hurts them. Cadillacs should be made to sell anywhere in the world, like Audi, BMW and Mercedes do. The 2.8 liter is too old of an engine, they need a 240-250 hp DI V6 that gets over 30 mpg highway, and a really good diesel. The CTS needs to get on a diet also. I am eagerly awaiting Clarkson's review of the new CTS. Europeans tend to laugh at pushrods, but if the CTS-V's engine isn't viable in other markets, then they picked the wrong engine.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

More ignorance...

Wonder how much our fun friends at GME had to do with this? God forbid anything ever out do CPF & PCS' POS Saab division.

A couple of thoughts:

1) GM finally has the car and the balls to 'take it to' the Euros in their home market, yet it won't. I'll still be laughing when MB and BMW are killing Cadillac here on its turf 10 years from now. (IF the division hasn't been phased out in favor of Saab)

2) When will the day come that cars like this are deemed to 'ridiculous' for OUR country. Guess we'll jhave to move to China (The new superpower) to buy real cars in the not too distant future.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They would have more success selling the CTS-V wagon there. I'm pretty sure the M5 wagon outsells the M5 sedan in Europe.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I too would agree: just ship the V over... but just as some will criticize NOT send it over, there would be, 1 for 1, criticizers blasting GM for importing a 'monster-engined gas guzzler' in 'times such as these'. Damned if you do...

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All of Europe or just the UK? I could see there being an issue making the car RHD for what would be a small number of CTS-Vs

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
All of Europe or just the UK? I could see there being an issue making the car RHD for what would be a small number of CTS-Vs

That I'm not sure, if it was just the UK then it wouldn't be a big deal I think, but not sending the V over to Europe at all is a huge mistake, because it has what i takes to crush the competition.

Edited by Dodgefan
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With Gas prices over $8.00 and expected to reach possible as high as $12.00 in some areas GM has more important things to do than send this car.

For as few as they would send would it really make a differance other than some bragging point.

I admit it would be great to kick butt and take names but work comes before play.

I suspect in time we will see some V series make the trip over at some point.

A diesel wagon might do much better over there to convert the peoples preception on Cadillac.

Edited by hyperv6
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Europeans would not be inclined to buy a V8, with gasoline over 8 Euros a gallon and in some places even higher, that would not be a car a European would choose and would just give them more reason to hate American cars. In many respects, Europeans act like Greenies. So IMHO, GM is doing the right thing in Europe! :yes:

Edited by Pontiac Custom-S
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it would've been crazy to send it over, gas prices and all. At the same time, I kinda was hoping for CTS-V redux on Top Gear, but oh well.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cadillac needs to sell cars in every part of the world to be considered a world-class brand. Right now they are a tier 2, US luxury brand. Unfortunately I don't see them ever getting to tier 1, although I wish they would.

Europeans would see the CTS-V's engine as too big, too low-tech, and wouldn't respect the car enough to consider buying it. It is kind of like Hyundai attempting to sell a 500 hp car in the USA, although at least they took a try at aiming upward with the Genesis, GM seems to not even want to try the CTS-V over there, which is sad.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Europeans interested in neck-snapping, killer track performance absolutely would buy a CTS-V. And a Cadillac CTS is NOTHING like a hyundai 'hi-po' sedan or whatever- genesis is a hokey derivative also-ran w/ zero image, CTS-V runs with the best of the pack regardless of where or where it's not sold. Dealerships locations do NOTHING to alter the product itself. bmw m-3 is bought for 1 or 2 reasons- performance, and/or image/snob-appeal (lots of posers out there, as witnessed by the sheer volume of 'M3' badges on what clearly are NOT M-3s) - - not a single M3 buyer is specifically buying that car primairly because of how the vales are actuated- that's ridiculous, outmoded thinking.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
All of Europe or just the UK? I could see there being an issue making the car RHD for what would be a small number of CTS-Vs

Only in UK. I think I read an article from Jim Press saying that it was not worth spending R&d for a RHD sedan that will sell in double digits annually. However, the LHD version shall be sold everywhere.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Europeans that want neck snapping performance can buy a Mercedes AMG, BMW M, or Audi RS. Or the Jag XF-R that is coming. The CTS-V doesn't have the class or image that those cars have, the Europeans will see it as no more than a muscle car. It does have a great Nurburgring time, which is a plus, but the interior isn't good enough, it doesn't have a DOHC engine or 7 or 8 speed transmission or carbon fiber body panels, etc.

Just as most Cadillac/Lexus buyers in the USA doesn't see the Genesis as an equal, the Europeans don't see Cadillac as equal to their cars, they see it as a second rate car, that sells at a discount for a reason. The Genesis actually stacks up well against a CTS, it is cheaper, roomier (which people always say make a Cadillac better than a BMW) and the Genesis handles just as well and is faster. The arguments used as to why a CTS is better than a BMW (roomier, cheaper, bigger engine) can be used to say a Genesis is better than a CTS, but when you get down to the little details and the image there is a difference.

I want to see Cadillac challenge the Germans, but the CTS isn't enough.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It would cost GM way too freaking much for so few sales. Gray-market cars will find their way into the hands of UK enthusiasts if they want them.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You know, this talk of $8 gas and Europeans don't want V8's is a BS excuse...or does everyone forget about the Jaguar XF, M3, M5 (V10), and so on.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jag has little image in europe anymore: based on decades-old archaic underpowered sedans that spend the bulk of their time getting overpriced repair work done. Last coupe (XK??) was a dud, x-type was an embarassing rebadged dud, no one bought the only decent-looking model, the s-type. Jag has been in a real stinky funk since the E-type was canceled. No one is going to cross-shop even an upcoming jag with an amg or rs, nevermind any current ones- it's just not in that class, the image is too damaged- jag's rep was all built in the '40s & '50s, and into the '60s with the E-type... after that, the primary public face of jag was the XJ that carried the same design from the late '60s to today. I was behind one recently, I believe it was from the '90s (who can tell) but the taillights still had exposed screws going thru the lenses to hold them on, with fat exposed rubber gaskets squeezing out. Unrefined bullsh!t like that is more in tune with the 1940s; at least it is in the American luxury market.

C'mon:

1968:

52-jaguar-xj.jpg

2008:

usa_2008_jaguar_xj-series_sdn_4_x_exfrdr

Same damned car!! Can you imagine if Cadillac was selling a 1968 SdV on 20"s and calling it a 2008 ??

We'll see how the new sedan shakes out, the one with subaru headlights, but there's a lot of baggage to overcome there to get back to where Jag once was.

Edited by balthazar
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Balthazar, have you noticed the new XK and XF? Very modern cars. The XF interior is really cool.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Jaguar XF is the real deal. Ford ran Jaguar into the ground, they are going to make a comeback with TATA financing behind them. Car and Driver like the XF a lot, Edmunds.com said it was better than the 550i, E550 and A6, Motor Trend said it was better than the 550i, E550, and GS460, even AutoCar magazine in Germany said it was better than the 550i, and obviously the UK car rags like it.

Jaguar went through a bad time in the 70s and 80s, but they are back. The XF interior is amazing, it is better than anything short of an S-class. It is a car you have to see in person and sit in to appreciate.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah- I've seen the XF in magazines & online- the concept was truely aggressive, it looked like it was leaping forward, predatory... but what the hell happened to the production sedan ?? Upright, ridin' high, slab-sided, subaru headlights = yawn on the exterior. Didn't go NEARLY far enough to erase the malaise of the last few decades. And where have I seen that steering wheel before? Egads- the '04 GP !! (XKR has the same parts bin wheel).

Rest of the interior is BO-RING- too conservative. I realize concept car interiors are too expensive for production cars.... but there's NOTHING in the production car that was shown to us in the concept. The xf's is not going to pull anyone away from their preferences based on design. Oh yeah- it has jag iDrive, too. :rolleyes:

XKR seems VERY long in the tooth- has this identical car been around since the late '90s, or is it longer than that? '09 upgrades shouldn't even ripple the water. Car just doesn't pass off as expensive at the curb; looks like a stretched fastback miata. And you'd think for $87K you wouldn't have to pay another $5000 just for the 20" wheels.

Still seems pretty messed up over there in Mumbai.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Jaguar XK came out in 2007. I wish the XF had headlights more like the concept, but the car looks better in person than in pictures. Plus they have 2 new engines and a hybrid system coming. The new XJ is an all aluminum chassis, 8-speed transmission, all new 5 liter DOHC V8 with plus hybrid option and the styling is said to be more modern and aggressive than the XF.

The 2010 Audi A6 is all aluminum, Mercedes is cutting the weight of every car by 5% and hybrid S-class coming this fall, the 7-series has in car internet and a new twin turbo V8 that gets better mileage than the old V8, the 3-series has an 80 gig hard drive now. Where is Cadillac's aluminum car, or 8-speed transmission, or diesel engine or 2-mode hybrid sedan.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your content will need to be approved by a moderator

Guest
You are commenting as a guest. If you have an account, please sign in.
Reply to this topic...

×   You have pasted content with formatting.   Remove formatting

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

Loading...