Something that really pisses me off.

[Oracle of Delphi]

My best friend who is Asian...his cousins and uncle recently immigrated here. They have been learning English since day one...the cousins can already speak it pretty fluently.

You don't think that stuff you're speaking in MA is English do you?

[Satty]

You don't think that stuff you're speaking in MA is English do you?

Ever been to Arkansas? I needed a freaking translator to buy gas.

[AAS]

Because you fail to see the problem is what I'm laughing about. If lets say a 1/4 of the US population immigrated to Mexico, and began to put up signs in English, began playing Metallica and other "American" music till all hours of the night, started advertising in English in the Newspapers and at stores, you don't think the Mexicans would be like WTF?

Well... considering Spanish is the de facto official language, and English doesn't count as one of Mexico's indigenous languages, then... YES, they would be like WTF, and at least they would have a reason to

By the way... they love Metallica and lots of other "American" music in Mexico (at least in Mexico City).

[Delta Force79]

This is obviously a waste of time trying to make you see the problem, Lets keep the flood gates open and keep allowing more and more Spanish people immigrating here and NOT becoming legal citizen's and start posting more billboards in Spanish, maybe have the local news broadcasts in Spanish with English closed captioning because it's all in the "numbers".

[AAS]

This is obviously a waste of time trying to make you see the problem, Lets keep the flood gates open and keep allowing more and more Spanish people immigrating here and NOT becoming legal citizen's and start posting more billboards in Spanish, maybe have the local news broadcasts in Spanish with English closed captioning because it's all in the "numbers".

If the USA keeps providing them jobs (that its own citizens don't want) then why wouldn't they keep taking them?

[Oracle of Delphi]

If the USA keeps providing them jobs (that its own citizens don't want) then why wouldn't they keep taking them?

I read an article today, it seems the bad economy is sending them home in droves, and keeping new ones from making the trip. That an La Migra's increased enforcement.

A friend in Delaware said that La Migra raided every Burger King in Delaware at the same time and rounded up hundreds, they also raided poultry plants last week, the plants and Burger King had to shut down after, for hiring illegals.

Edited September 11, 2008 by Pontiac Custom-S

[The O.C.]

Excellent... come to East LA County, and I'll show you China.

This is the same argument that comes up when people comment on cars being "this and that" based on personal experience... There is always a counter-example.

As Enzora said... it usually takes a couple generations for a group/family to assimilate.

I will agree with DF though......the Mexican situation seems to be quite a bit more drastic than any other immigrant group in the U.S. right now. Also having lived in SoCal, it's an incredibly depressing combination of rampant illegal immigration and their seeming refusal to assimilate into our culture (in ways such as learning english, etc.)

I too am so frustrated that, now, in order to use the ATM, or call a toll-free customer assistance number, you have to "press 1 to CONTINUE in English...."

And it's EVERYWHERE.

We aren't just talking about the Chinese having a "Chinatown" in San Francisco, L.A., etc........the immigrant/migrant mexican population is overrunning our country....and not conforming.

AND, it's not simply a "Mexican" thing.....it's the immigrant/migrant faction that is causing most of this. I work with a guy from Tijuana and Mexico City that moved here a few years ago. Know what? He learned english. But, he is also a relatively middle-to-upper class guy from Mexico......not a migrant worker sneaking over the boarder.

[daves87rs]

Since my wife is Hispanic/American Indian, this is an interesting thread...

I think every American should be forced to learn at leasdt one other language....welcome to the rest of the world.

Even I can speak a good bit of spanish...

It's not the language I'm worried about, it's the values .....

[The O.C.]

FALSE FALSE FALSE!!

America has no official language, hence this debate even existing.

Question: when you go to New York or Chicago and go to Chinatown, does it piss you off that all the signs are in Chinese? Me? I love it...gives the places character.

True....

But let's not kid ourselves.....English IS our official language.....even if not written in stone.

For right or for wrong, English is a world-wide language.....it's the official language of the international airline industry. ANY airline pilot flying any plane in any country HAS to speak English. It is the one constant used to keep sanity in the airways between pilots, airports, and control towers.

Look at how many foreign countries have English splashed around everywhere you go......street signs in English (and their native tongue), store signs in English, etc., etc.

BUT, we aren't talking about the rest of the world. We are talking about OUR country. And no, I don't mind Chinese signs in Chinatown, or other such things....but I know that when I go to the ATM, it doesn't ask me if I speak "Chinese" or "Deutsch" or "French" or "Italian" or "German" or "Russian" or anything else....it asks for only "Spanish" or "English."

That's wrong.

[The O.C.]

It's not the language I'm worried about, it's the values .....

....and the rampant illegal immigration.....and all the money (our money) poured into taking care of them when they go to the emergency room.......or the jobs lost to U.S. citizens that, I'm sorry, they WOULD DO....

All this flak about "jobs that U.S. citizens won't do" is horsecrap.

Why do you think that when you walk into a McDonalds in southern California all the workers are hispanic (and most possibly illegal) when you go next door to the In-And-Out Burger and they are all high-school middle-class white kids? Because In-And-Out Burger pays a fair wage and attracts a type of worker a step above than the immigrant/migrant worker that will work for dog wages....

There's something wrong when something like 80% of our illegal immigrants in this country are hispanic..........with the remaining 20% to be made up of ALL the other ethnicities around the world....

[The O.C.]

Just to clarify....'cause I know I'm coming across as an ass....

But I have nothing wrong with ANYONE of hispanic or mexican origin.....

But I do have a HUGE problem with illegal immigration and the lack of assimilation into our English culture that invariably is a result of said illegal immigration....

And I have a HUGE problem with the fact that our government won't do anything about it....instead only pandering to the special interests that benefit from this situation.....

[ocnblu]

When I went to Sears and saw a freakin' STOVE with SPANISH in large capital letters on the controls with ENGLISH in tiny, lower case letters under it, it amazed and angered me.

If you want to move to the USA, do so legally and learn to speak ENGLISH as soon as you can, even BEFORE you emigrate! Virtually EVERY OTHER ETHNIC GROUP assimilates themselves to the American culture except for Spanish-speaking people, and they don't even TRY to learn English! You cannot expect to do business in the USA if you don't know the language.

This crap has GOT to STOP! If we continue to kowtow to these people, all will be lost. Think of the generations of folks who came here seeking to work hard and become Americans in every sense of the word. Today's Spanish speakers will not change because they have little incentive to, with business and government bowing to them.

We need a federal law in this country making English the official language. I mean, it almost seems absurd it's come to this, but it is truly getting ridiculous.

[Delta Force79]

True....

But let's not kid ourselves.....English IS our official language.....even if not written in stone.

For right or for wrong, English is a world-wide language.....it's the official language of the international airline industry. ANY airline pilot flying any plane in any country HAS to speak English. It is the one constant used to keep sanity in the airways between pilots, airports, and control towers.

Look at how many foreign countries have English splashed around everywhere you go......street signs in English (and their native tongue), store signs in English, etc., etc.

BUT, we aren't talking about the rest of the world. We are talking about OUR country. And no, I don't mind Chinese signs in Chinatown, or other such things....but I know that when I go to the ATM, it doesn't ask me if I speak "Chinese" or "Deutsch" or "French" or "Italian" or "German" or "Russian" or anything else....it asks for only "Spanish" or "English."

That's wrong.

My point exactly.

[Delta Force79]

When I went to Sears and saw a freakin' STOVE with SPANISH in large capital letters on the controls with ENGLISH in tiny, lower case letters under it, it amazed and angered me.

If you want to move to the USA, do so legally and learn to speak ENGLISH as soon as you can, even BEFORE you emigrate! Virtually EVERY OTHER ETHNIC GROUP assimilates themselves to the American culture except for Spanish-speaking people, and they don't even TRY to learn English! You cannot expect to do business in the USA if you don't know the language.

This crap has GOT to STOP! If we continue to kowtow to these people, all will be lost. Think of the generations of folks who came here seeking to work hard and become Americans in every sense of the word. Today's Spanish speakers will not change because they have little incentive to, with business and government bowing to them.

We need a federal law in this country making English the official language. I mean, it almost seems absurd it's come to this, but it is truly getting ridiculous.

My point exactly +1

[Robert Hall]

My point exactly +1

+2.

[Robert Hall]

And I have a HUGE problem with the fact that our government won't do anything about it....instead only pandering to the special interests that benefit from this situation.....

I hear you. Big agri-business corporations, etc need their cheap labor. Corporations fund the politicians and have the lobbyists. Thus, nothing gets done.

[AAS]

...

We aren't just talking about the Chinese having a "Chinatown" in San Francisco, L.A., etc........the immigrant/migrant mexican population is overrunning our country....and not conforming.

...

What I was referring to was not "Chinatown" etc., but similar situations to predominantly Mexican areas.

[The O.C.]

What I was referring to was not "Chinatown" etc., but similar situations to predominantly Mexican areas.

But what I see, in SoCal, is not "predominantly Mexican areas" per se, but ENTIRE CITIES.......

Look at what happened to Santa Ana.......I think 88% hispanic population, largest city (~340,000 people) in Orange County.....and the vast majority of the city is now one big trash heap.....

At least when I go into Chinatown, or other Asian areas such as Alhambra, the San Gabriel Valley.....it still appears that the local population has pride in it's neighborhoods and does a realtively fine job of keeping them up....and they seem vibrant....etc....

[Camino LS6]

It's all about money - period.

[AAS]

But what I see, in SoCal, is not "predominantly Mexican areas" per se, but ENTIRE CITIES.......

Look at what happened to Santa Ana.......I think 88% hispanic population, largest city (~340,000 people) in Orange County.....and the vast majority of the city is now one big trash heap.....

At least when I go into Chinatown, or other Asian areas such as Alhambra, the San Gabriel Valley.....it still appears that the local population has pride in it's neighborhoods and does a realtively fine job of keeping them up....and they seem vibrant....etc....

Hacienda and Rowland Heights have to be up there in Asian population. Diamond Bar is up there too.

It's all about money - period.

Yup... lot's of foreigners are taking over, some are not as fortunate as other.

[Oracle of Delphi]

I'm multilingual, schooled in various techniques!

[Croc]

I was responding to the comment that English isnt our national language. Perhaps not officially but it's been the rule of thumb for quite some time...lol. It's more than just marketing, if that was purely the case why aren't any of the other major languages use din advertising? French, German, Italian, etc.

FALSE FALSE FALSE!

Just because you disagree with the lack of an official language does NOT mean that what YOU WANT is the "rule of thumb."

Try telling that line to someone who grew up in the Bronx years ago and he'll tell you Yiddish was HIS "rule of thumb."

I see plenty of languages used in advertising on a daily basis. I see English, Spanish, Korean, Chinese, Japanese, etc., but I know that's because I live in Los Angeles, which is one of the most diverse areas of the country. Open up your eyes and your mind to the world around you. What difference does it make when 1 out of every 100 billboards you see along the freeway aren't in your language?

And what does the fact that it's along the freeway matter, anyway? The government doesn't coordinate all interstate advertising--that's done by local private landowners wanting to make a quick buck off their freeway-fronting property, barring any anti-billboard ordinance by the municipality.

[Croc]

Because you fail to see the problem is what I'm laughing about. If lets say a 1/4 of the US population immigrated to Mexico, and began to put up signs in English, began playing Metallica and other "American" music till all hours of the night, started advertising in English in the Newspapers and at stores, you don't think the Mexicans would be like WTF?

Only if they were consumed with raging bigotry. There, I said it. Have you even BEEN to Mexico? They happily court the money of Americans. I've never heard anything other than English language music in the Mexican cities due to all the tourism. Of course, *I* thought that was a terrible thing and felt like I was being cheated out of experiencing much of another culture.

[Croc]

Final thought:

Times change. Get used to it. You can either adapt and move with it, or you can get angry and pissed off while clinging to the past like Archie Bunker. Your choice.

[Delta Force79]

lol...say what you want, call me Archie Bunker, the fact remains this country has been run into the f@#king toilet and it's $h! like illegal immigration that's the reason. Yes times change, and NOT FOR THE BEST. No i will not accept it and I will not tuck my f@#king tail between my legs like you and say oh it's okay things change. This country is in so much debt and yet we hard working American CITIZEN'S have to pay more taxes while these bums come in and take all these illegal jobs working off the books and yet we still cater to them. It's a f@#king disgrace plain and simple.

[Delta Force79]

BTW for your information I was born and raised in The Bronx, and when my family came to this country in 1966 they moved to The Bronx. So my family has been here 42 years and 35 years in this very house. Indeed the times have changed here too, a year ago we didn't have to hear the f@#king music coming from next door on a daily basis.

[Oracle of Delphi]

I know a few unemployed East Germans who really know how to build a wall, to keep people in or out, complete with a no mans land. They made a really big one that cut East Berlin off from West Berlin.

Edited September 11, 2008 by Pontiac Custom-S

[Croc]

BTW for your information I was born and raised in The Bronx, and when my family came to this country in 1966 they moved to The Bronx. So my family has been here 42 years and 35 years in this very house. Indeed the times have changed here too, a year ago we didn't have to hear the f@#king music coming from next door on a daily basis.

If there's too much noise coming from next door, call the police and file a noise complaint. Except that...I don't think the noise is really the issue you have with them.

[balthazar]

>>"Times change. Get used to it. You can either adapt and move with it, or you can get angry and pissed off while clinging to the past like Archie Bunker. Your choice."<<

Why is 'change it' not an option ?? That's my choice. We are supposed to just live with every lousy situation that comes along ?? Maybe the U.S. Gov can print up sister brochures to the Mexican Gov ones for the illegals once they belly-crawl into this country, add turnstiles, hot dogs & balloons at the border. Let's all 'live with it'.

No, in reality we are being overrun and allowing it. It only makes us look weak that we cannot bond together or even talk to each other. Willful social segregation.

English is the mainstream, majority language of the U.S. as it's always been; whether it is officially declared so or not in the near future, nothing would change either way; signs could still remain bi where deemed 'neccesary', but one thing that would & should change: English would be the first language you'd see, and the default language used.

75 years ago products & advertising in this country were not presented in bi-lingual formats. Learning English was both a survival neccessity and a sense of pride for the immigrant.

Maybe B&Eing into this country is a hallmark of the type of person who doesn't give a sh!t, but with all this sickening liberal bullsh!t bi-lingual bullsh!t (and it's NOT just products, the Gov is guilty here, too), not only is there apparently no pride in becoming an American, there's no need to either. Hell, when there's 20,000,000 of your countrymen here already, who needs to become a part of any community but one's own ??

[Delta Force79]

If you would go back and read one of my original posts in this thread I've already stated the police have yet to do anything about it. If you're trying to call me a racist you fail, because I have not said one racist thing in this thread and as a matter of fact here's a little more info for you, to the left of my house is another Spanish family, they have lived here for well over 20 years and are in fact friends of the family. They are are respectable hard working people that become legal citizen's whenever it was they moved to this country, however many years ago that may have been. They are quiet and they too have complained about our new neighbors to the right of my house. I already stated that 3 new houses were built next to me, and those 3 houses are owned by Spanish families....I have yet to say one bad thing about the other 2 households. So don't give me this racist Archie Bunker bull&#036;h&#33;. What I do have a problem with is the catering to a specific group of people who come into this country more times than not illegally and begin to work illegally, while our country continues to sit idle and not address the issue. While on top of it all they are clearly taking over, as others have said when you call somewhere and have to press 1 to continue in English otherwise it's Spanish. Not Chinese, not Italian, not German, not French. Spanish or English. That is the problem. Is this the United States of America or North Mexico now?

Edited September 11, 2008 by Delta Force79

[Croc]

75 years ago products & advertising in this country were not presented in bi-lingual formats. Learning English was both a survival neccessity and a sense of pride for the immigrant.

Maybe B&Eing into this country is a hallmark of the type of person who doesn't give a sh!t, but with all this sickening liberal bullsh!t bi-lingual bullsh!t (and it's NOT just products, the Gov is guilty here, too), not only is there apparently no pride in becoming an American, there's no need to either. Hell, when there's 20,000,000 of your countrymen here already, who needs to become a part of any community but one's own ??

Really? Because immigrant neighborhoods sure seemed to have a lot of immigrant-language local newspapers, which had local immigrant-language ads in them.

And as has been pointed out here in this thread, and in just about every article on the topic, immigrants tend not to learn English, but their children do.

[Croc]

If you would go back and read one of my original posts in this thread I've already stated the police have yet to do anything about it. If you're trying to call me a racist you fail, because I have not said one racist thing in this thread and as a matter of fact here's a little more info for you, to the left of my house is another Spanish family, they have lived here for well over 20 years and are in fact friends of the family. They are are respectable hard working people that become legal citizen's whenever it was they moved to this country, however many years ago that may have been. They are quiet and they too have complained about our new neighbors to the right of my house. I already stated that 3 new houses were built next to me, and those 3 houses are owned by Spanish families....I have yet to say one bad thing about the other 2 households. So don't give me this racist Archie Bunker bull&#036;h&#33;. What I do have a problem with is the catering to a specific group of people who come into this country more times than not illegally and begin to work illegally, while our country continues to sit idle and address the issue. While on top of it all they are clearly taking over if as others have said when you call somewhere and have to press 1 to continue in English otherwise it's Spanish. Not Chinese, not Italian, not German, not French. Spanish or English. That is the problem. Is this the United States of America or North Mexico now?

Uh huh. That's like my father saying he isn't racist because he likes this one black family he met.

Or the people who claim they aren't homophobic because they're friends with a token gay.

No, you haven't said anything racist, but you most certainly have chosen to express your frustrations in a way that has a very clear undertone. You rant about Spanish language in billboards, then you bitch about the neighbors next door who play loud music and speak Spanish, then you rant about all the damn illegals coming into the country.

Three questions:

1. Are your loud-music-playing neighbors there illegally?

2. Why are you equating military recruitment in Spanish with illegals? An illegal couldn't enlist, duh.

3. Why are you ranting about all these completely separate issues in the same thread? Illegal immigrants are not all Mexican. I'm sure there are a few Canadians who emigrate illegally every year as well. What about Americans emigrating illegally to Canada during Vietnam?

The fact that you rant about illegal immigration, the new neighbors, and a spanish-language advertisement all in one thread seems to indicate that the real issue here is that you don't like people who speak Spanish. You don't want signs to accomodate them, you don't want to hear their music, and you don't want them coming into the country "illegally," though I'd love to know just how you determine their legality. If it smells like smoke, there's probably fire.

[Sixty8panther]

Having been born in Slovakia in 1979 and immigrated here

to the USA in 1987 without being able to speak a word of

English I can def. agree with that. It's absolutely annoying

to have someone assume I do/should speak English.

And WHY the F$ do I have to waste (collectively) 20 min.

every month pressing "#1 for English"???

[daves87rs]

....and the rampant illegal immigration.....and all the money (our money) poured into taking care of them when they go to the emergency room.......or the jobs lost to U.S. citizens that, I'm sorry, they WOULD DO....

All this flak about "jobs that U.S. citizens won't do" is horsecrap.

Why do you think that when you walk into a McDonalds in southern California all the workers are hispanic (and most possibly illegal) when you go next door to the In-And-Out Burger and they are all high-school middle-class white kids? Because In-And-Out Burger pays a fair wage and attracts a type of worker a step above than the immigrant/migrant worker that will work for dog wages....

There's something wrong when something like 80% of our illegal immigrants in this country are hispanic..........with the remaining 20% to be made up of ALL the other ethnicities around the world....

80 percent? That's a bit high...though I agree in the fact it is a very big part of the number....

[daves87rs]

I can't believe how silly this thread has become....

Then again, we could rip the people living in Dearborn too....

I think it would help to understand a bit a culture too...

And untill the government does something (good luck with that), things simply are not going to change.....

[Intrepidation]

Because the French, German and Italian immigrants probably make up a fraction (if that) of the total number of immigrants from Asia and Spanish speaking American countries.

As Delta Force pointed out, why is there not Asian languages on the labels of most products that have Spanish labels then huh?

You don't think that stuff you're speaking in MA is English do you?

Haha I don't have a Boston accent thankfully.

If there's too much noise coming from next door, call the police and file a noise complaint. Except that...I don't think the noise is really the issue you have with them.

You think the police give a &#036;h&#33;? Not an ounce. I've tried..doesn't work. Last time i simply blinded the asshole with my spotlight..last time he ever blared it...then the house was foreclosed.

Anyway, this country has gone downhill thanks to the massive amount of illegal immigration and that no one seems to give a &#036;h&#33; about it or the fact that there is very little respect of this country this they've illegal come to. We've got so many people who think "Oh well it's change and it sucks but I don't care, let it happen."

You wanna move to the United States of America? Do it legally and learn English.

Edited September 11, 2008 by Dodgefan

[Delta Force79]

Uh huh. That's like my father saying he isn't racist because he likes this one black family he met.

Or the people who claim they aren't homophobic because they're friends with a token gay.

No, you haven't said anything racist, but you most certainly have chosen to express your frustrations in a way that has a very clear undertone. You rant about Spanish language in billboards, then you bitch about the neighbors next door who play loud music and speak Spanish, then you rant about all the damn illegals coming into the country.

Three questions:

1. Are your loud-music-playing neighbors there illegally?

2. Why are you equating military recruitment in Spanish with illegals? An illegal couldn't enlist, duh.

3. Why are you ranting about all these completely separate issues in the same thread? Illegal immigrants are not all Mexican. I'm sure there are a few Canadians who emigrate illegally every year as well. What about Americans emigrating illegally to Canada during Vietnam?

The fact that you rant about illegal immigration, the new neighbors, and a spanish-language advertisement all in one thread seems to indicate that the real issue here is that you don't like people who speak Spanish. You don't want signs to accomodate them, you don't want to hear their music, and you don't want them coming into the country "illegally," though I'd love to know just how you determine their legality. If it smells like smoke, there's probably fire.

You clearly need to get your facts straight, I have yet to mention anything regarding the military in this thread. So I have no idea where you got that from. As far as you other "conclusions" on who or what I am, you are entitled to your opinion. You can go about living your life accepting any and all change no matter if for good or bad. If you're content with this countries obvious illegal immigration problem and for the last time...OUR f@#kING CATERING TO ONE SPECIFIC GROUP OF PEOPLE where as everyone else who may not understand the English language are forced to either learn it or not understand what it is they're hearing or reading. The problem with the music I have, the problem with the illegal immigrating all goes back to something I said earlier in this thread.... A LACK OF RESPECT. To answer your question about my neighbors being legal or not, I have yet to go knock on their door to ask, nor do I have the desire to. As to why I'm using Mexicans as an example, Mexico has a large number of illegals coming into this country, along with Cuba among others. Look you want to come to this country, FINE BY ME, but do it the right way, learn the language if you plan to live here, become a citizen, get a real job, pay taxes like American's have to. Why is the stereotypical job of a spanish person a gardener? Because its a job that involves no speaking for the most ( no need to learn the language) it's a job you more than likely get paid off the books on ( therefore no taxes to be paid). Then they can say to family and friends hey look I got a job here and I dont have to speak English, come here I'll get you work. That's how it all starts and that's what it's becoming more and more every day. Period.

[balthazar]

>>"And as has been pointed out here in this thread, and in just about every article on the topic, immigrants tend not to learn English, but their children do."<<

It's been 'pointed out' without example or substantiation. Sixty8 immigrated- how come he speaks English instead of just his daughter? Guy I know immigrated from the Ukraine, he learned English here. All the relatives in my family tree that immigrated ALL learned English- why didn't they fold their arms and just let their children learn it instead? Ahh, because you were talking about Mexican immigrants, weren't you? Why is there a very real difference between European immigrants & Mexican? IMO, it's because they are enabled by the bi-linguistics, so many are illegal and unwilling to risk discovery, and they are so great in number, they can exist in their own sub-communities of like enthnicities.

>>"and you don't want them coming into the country "illegally,""<<

Croc- are you actually FOR illegal immigration ??

[Robert Hall]

And as has been pointed out here in this thread, and in just about every article on the topic, immigrants tend not to learn English, but their children do.

Maybe the uneducated, poor Mexicans don't, but other groups do...I've worked with and known a lot of European, Asian (from India, Sri Lanka, China, S. Korea, Vietnam, etc), and a few African immigrants over the years, they speak English and tend to be well educated when they come to the US legally as students or on H-1B work visas..they come here and are productive members of society and pay their taxes..

[Croc]

You clearly need to get your facts straight, I have yet to mention anything regarding the military in this thread. So I have no idea where you got that from. As far as you other "conclusions" on who or what I am, you are entitled to your opinion. You can go about living your life accepting any and all change no matter if for good or bad. If you're content with this countries obvious illegal immigration problem and for the last time...OUR f@#kING CATERING TO ONE SPECIFIC GROUP OF PEOPLE where as everyone else who may not understand the English language are forced to either learn it or not understand what it is they're hearing or reading. The problem with the music I have, the problem with the illegal immigrating all goes back to something I said earlier in this thread.... A LACK OF RESPECT. To answer your question about my neighbors being legal or not, I have yet to go knock on their door to ask, nor do I have the desire to. As to why I'm using Mexicans as an example, Mexico has a large number of illegals coming into this country, along with Cuba among others. Look you want to come to this country, FINE BY ME, but do it the right way, learn the language if you plan to live here, become a citizen, get a real job, pay taxes like American's have to. Why is the stereotypical job of a spanish person a gardener? Because its a job that involves no speaking for the most ( no need to learn the language) it's a job you more than likely get paid off the books on ( therefore no taxes to be paid). Then they can say to family and friends hey look I got a job here and I dont have to speak English, come here I'll get you work. That's how it all starts and that's what it's becoming more and more every day. Period.

Sorry, you're right about the military--that was in Dodgefan's initial post and not one of yours.

As for the rest of your post...gardener? More like fast food worker around here. Or construction. Or nannying. There's also a lot of non-college-educated whites in those fields. I think the reason it's a stereotype is because it does not require much beyond manual labor...i.e. no diploma or GED.

[AAS]

lol...say what you want, call me Archie Bunker, the fact remains this country has been run into the f@#king toilet and it's &#036;h&#33; like illegal immigration that's the reason. Yes times change, and NOT FOR THE BEST. No i will not accept it and I will not tuck my f@#king tail between my legs like you and say oh it's okay things change. This country is in so much debt and yet we hard working American CITIZEN'S have to pay more taxes while these bums come in and take all these illegal jobs working off the books and yet we still cater to them. It's a f@#king disgrace plain and simple.

Then DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! Why not go take their jobs, so that none are left to offer them? Why not take every unemployed person in the USA and make them take the jobs? Then, guess what, you'll probably see a lot less illegal aliens!

It's been 'pointed out' without example or substantiation. Sixty8 immigrated- how come he speaks English instead of just his daughter? Guy I know immigrated from the Ukraine, he learned English here. All the relatives in my family tree that immigrated ALL learned English- why didn't they fold their arms and just let their children learn it instead? Ahh, because you were talking about Mexican immigrants, weren't you? Why is there a very real difference between European immigrants & Mexican? IMO, it's because they are enabled by the bi-linguistics, so many are illegal and unwilling to risk discovery, and they are so great in number, they can exist in their own sub-communities of like enthnicities.

My grandparents (and countless other Armenians) moved from Russia, through German camps, before, during and after WWII, and they all learned English.

I moved from Mexico City, granted I was only 3, and learned English after already speaking Armenian and Spanish.

Yes, there are tons of immigrants who move to the USA and learn English...

Not everybody that does has that opportunity. Maybe they are too old. Maybe they are too poor. Maybe they move to places where English isn't needed. I know for a fact, that even if they (the older generations) never learn, the younger generations go to school and do learn.

Oh... and to DF's comment about why no labels in an Asian language... apparently there isn't a large (enough) Asian community where you live, because in the areas I frequent not only are there plazas full of Asian text, but there are markets full of products from Asia with labels full of languages from those parts.

[Croc]

>>"And as has been pointed out here in this thread, and in just about every article on the topic, immigrants tend not to learn English, but their children do."<<

It's been 'pointed out' without example or substantiation. Sixty8 immigrated- how come he speaks English instead of just his daughter? Guy I know immigrated from the Ukraine, he learned English here. All the relatives in my family tree that immigrated ALL learned English- why didn't they fold their arms and just let their children learn it instead? Ahh, because you were talking about Mexican immigrants, weren't you? Why is there a very real difference between European immigrants & Mexican? IMO, it's because they are enabled by the bi-linguistics, so many are illegal and unwilling to risk discovery, and they are so great in number, they can exist in their own sub-communities of like enthnicities.

>>"and you don't want them coming into the country "illegally,""<<

Croc- are you actually FOR illegal immigration ??

Actually, I was thinking more about Asian immigrants. I'm also thinking of a lot of Jewish immigrants from the early 20th century who spoke only Yiddish while their children learned English. Or Indian immigrants. Or, yes, Mexican immigrants. Pretty much all non-European immigrants, because most Europeans speak some amount of English as their foreign language education requirements are much better.

[Robert Hall]

Sorry, you're right about the military--that was in Dodgefan's initial post and not one of yours.

As for the rest of your post...gardener? More like fast food worker around here. Or construction. Or nannying. There's also a lot of non-college-educated whites in those fields. I think the reason it's a stereotype is because it does not require much beyond manual labor...i.e. no diploma or GED.

The crew my yard service sends every week is Hispanic, all speaking Spanish..seems common in Phoenix...and they are definitely many accented (presumably immigrant) fast food workers here as well. My pool guy is not, though.

[Croc]

Oh... and to DF's comment about why no labels in an Asian language... apparently there isn't a large (enough) Asian community where you live, because in the areas I frequent not only are there plazas full of Asian text, but there are markets full of products from Asia with labels full of languages from those parts.

My family is from Indianapolis, IN. Not only does Indianapolis have signs in Korean in a couple Korean areas of town, but it just takes one walk down the "International Foods" aisle at the supermarket--and we're talking about Marsh and Kroger--to see Hebrew, Arabic, Spanish, Chinese and Japanese.

IN INDIANAPOLIS, INDIANA

If it's there, it's pretty much everywhere.

[Delta Force79]

Then DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! Why not go take their jobs, so that none are left to offer them? Why not take every unemployed person in the USA and make them take the jobs? Then, guess what, you'll probably see a lot less illegal aliens!

My grandparents (and countless other Armenians) moved from Russia, through German camps, before, during and after WWII, and they all learned English.

I moved from Mexico City, granted I was only 3, and learned English after already speaking Armenian and Spanish.

Yes, there are tons of immigrants who move to the USA and learn English...

Not everybody that does has that opportunity. Maybe they are too old. Maybe they are too poor. Maybe they move to places where English isn't needed. I know for a fact, that even if they (the older generations) never learn, the younger generations go to school and do learn.

Oh... and to DF's comment about why no labels in an Asian language... apparently there isn't a large (enough) Asian community where you live, because in the areas I frequent not only are there plazas full of Asian text, but there are markets full of products from Asia with labels full of languages from those parts.

Right do something about it, me, one man without an ounce of power put a stop to it. Brilliant response. Hey you hear that guys, we have the solution to the problem with illegal immigrants, I Delta Force79 will end it starting tomorrow as I take every off the books job available here in the New York City area, after that I will move to other counties until I have rid the entire state of this problem. Remember kids, you too can prevent forest fires!

Edited September 11, 2008 by Delta Force79

[Camino LS6]

I just can't dive into this one tonight.

But a word of caution: There are many, many vantage points when looking at this issue. Be careful about generalities and keep this thread respectful - it treads on some thin ice.

[Delta Force79]

Camino- noted.

I've said my piece anyway on this matter.

[Enzora]

So. . . anybody care to guess the average lifespan of a migrant farmworker in the US?

[Croc]

So. . . anybody care to guess the average lifespan of a migrant farmworker in the US?

49

[Teh Ricer Civic!]

Theodore Roosevelt on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN

"In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907(sic)

The real date was 1919 but whatever.