regfootball

Saturn's rebirth vexes Chevy dealers

138 posts in this topic

regfootball    234

here

GM should be fighting Toyota, not itself.

"But nagging questions remain: Will sales rise enough to justify Saturn's fatter marketing budget at a time when Pontiac and Buick must trim their own ad campaigns? And is Chevrolet, GM's strongest and biggest mass-market brand, actually a better candidate to battle the imports?

Chevy dealers say they could easily fit mid-priced vehicles like the Outlook and Aura into their lineups. They also note that GM is promoting Chevrolet as its mass-market global brand."

Edited by regfootball

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regfootball    234

"One of the things they can do to distinguish themselves from the rest of General Motors is to be kind of the Scion of General Motors," he said. "You concentrate on lifestyle rather than on demographics in the old sense. Previously, Saturn wasn't distinctive in any way other than the sales environment."

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ellives    0

This goes back to the fact GM hasn't properly articulated why each brand exists. Their own dealers shouldn't be questioning the existance of divisions. The fact it's happening underscores the "message" problem.

Even DCX figured out that pure badge engineering doesn't work - thus the demise of Plymouth. I don't think GM has the balls to make such a bold decision. While the article below says it's "too expensive" to close down a division, it has to be done somehow unless they can come up with a way to justify the existence of all of them. You can't let things continue adrift as they are now and let the slow bleeding kill the company.

Personally I think if Saturn has high marks for quality GM SHOULD be dumping money into the division. A reputation for quality is the primary trait Toyota has going for them. It certainly isn't styling. If they can continue the solid quality reputation within the Saturn brand, there's tons of market share to grab.

here

GM should be fighting Toyota, not itself.

"But nagging questions remain: Will sales rise enough to justify Saturn's fatter marketing budget at a time when Pontiac and Buick must trim their own ad campaigns? And is Chevrolet, GM's strongest and biggest mass-market brand, actually a better candidate to battle the imports?

Chevy dealers say they could easily fit mid-priced vehicles like the Outlook and Aura into their lineups. They also note that GM is promoting Chevrolet as its mass-market global brand."

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razoredge    0

THere is now way to justify saturins existance. They have been robbing funding that should have gone to BOP for over fifteen years with no results what so ever.......none ! Nothing but a money pit.

As for cryin at Chevy.........too bad, theres Buick and Pontiac that need some product and Chevy with some of their cheap cars has been instrumental in achieving the bad reputation that GM is now trying to change.

so there ! :lol:

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Northstar    11

The Aura would just replace the Malibu, I would think.

I think the dealers will shut up when Saturn makes money and allows other divisions to get better products because of it.

I don't see why Buick and Pontiac dealers are bitching. In the last three years Pontiac has gotten:

G6 (sedan, coupe, and convert coming)

SV6 (granted it sucks)

GTO

Solstice

And shortly they will get the G5

Buick has gotten the LaCrosse and Lucerne, and are soon to get the Enclave, which will give them a pretty fresh lineup.

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The O.C.    2

First of all, while I would like the AURA to replace the Malibu, I would take a Cobalt 100-times first before I'd even consider an ION (coupe or sedan.)

Fact-of-the-matter is.....you really could get the job done with just Chevy. The AURA could, supposedly, replace the Malibu.

You could put the Honda V6 right into the Equinox......the only real advantage I see with VUE over Equinox is that engine.

SKY would fit PERFECTLY in Chevy's lineup! They currently have an awesome Corvette with no lower-end sportster in the lineup.

Other than the dealer body, I see no product reason for Saturn to exist anymore.

BUT we know they aren't going away.....

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ehaase    18

I have often felt that starting Saturn was one of GM's biggest mistakes. Even in the mid 1980's when I was in my early 20's , I thought this was a mistake. The 1991 Saturn should have been the 1991 Cavalier, which badly needed a redesign by that time. So many billions of dollars wasted.

Edited by ehaase

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Threads like this make me sick to my stomach. Amd the more I read the more I want to grab a proverbial pillow and suffocate Saturn.

Ever heard of the expression "Quit while you're behind"?

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wildcat    0

Personally I think if Saturn has high marks for quality GM SHOULD be dumping money into the division. A reputation for quality is the primary trait Toyota has going for them.

Well, that settles it. Buick should get more investment. Check its quality ratings, above every other GM brand (and way above certain ones).

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enzl    0

Saturn's vastly superior dealerships alone have greater potential for changing perceptions and battling the imports, IMO.

Agreed.

I'm assuming that somebody at GM did a ton of Market research regarding the 'perception' of the Saturn Brand....otherwise, it makes no sense.

...I have a feeling it resulted in more people who had 'positive associations' or a large % of 'I would consider a Saturn' relative to the older GM divisions....

remember, GM's association with Saturn has been downplayed until recently.

My best guess is that Chevy, Pontiac, Buick and Olds just have too many people saying "I would never consider a _______".

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Croc    268

Saturn is going to be way upscale from Chevy. Saturn will really be competing with VW in the US market, in the "premium mainstream" segment.

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PurdueGuy    72

To all those who dispise Saturn... suck it up. You complain that Saturn hasn't been making money. They've barely been given any product. Let's see how much money Chevy can make with one product for 9 years. Saturn had profitable years - I doubt profitable enough to pay for the factory & all that, but how could they, especially selling a low-margin economy car.

The Saturn culture is an invaluable thing for GM to build on. Get over it.

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Croc    268

To all those who dispise Saturn... suck it up.  You complain that Saturn hasn't been making money.  They've barely been given any product.  Let's see how much money Chevy can make with one product for 9 years.  Saturn had profitable years - I doubt profitable enough to pay for the factory & all that, but how could they, especially selling a low-margin economy car.

The Saturn culture is an invaluable thing for GM to build on.  Get over it.

WORD. BIG BIG WORD.

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haypops    0

  Saturn had profitable years - I doubt profitable enough to pay for the factory & all that, but how could they, especially selling a low-margin economy car.

The Saturn culture is an invaluable thing for GM to build on.  Get over it.

Since GM is taking the Spring Hill factory back, doesn't that mean that Saturn really didn't loose all that money that the chevy cry babies are winning about about. Are those same people crediting Saturn with the money to develop the theta archictecture of the equinox or the Atlas engine family?

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haypops    0

, I would take a Cobalt 100-times first before I'd even consider an ION (coupe or sedan.)

You are of course welcome to your opinion but I put my money on the line. Three week ends ago my youngest and I went shoping for a new car. I thought we would get a Cobolt because I have a $3000 GM card rebate for it. We passed on the Cobolt because my daughter thought it felt like a rental car and the buying experience was awful. We went to the Saturn dealer and got an IOn. It looked better, it handeled better, was quieter nad more comfortable. I guess the upside is that I still have the $3000 rebate for one of her three other sisters.

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regfootball    234

Saturn's vastly superior dealerships alone have greater potential for changing perceptions and battling the imports, IMO.

BINGO!

and GM is so tired of propping up so many chevy dealers, whose sales per dealership no doubt are way behind toyota.

when this revitalized Saturn takes off, the amount of cars they will be pumping out per dealer will be incredible. GM will love to prove to all the whiney and pissed off Chevy Buick and Pontiac dealers that its time to lean up and provide better customer service or risk being cut.

And all you traditionalists whine about Saturn and say the cars should go to chevy but at the same time won't allow chevy to redefine itself to become a contemporary choice in today's society. You still would rather have them selling Camaros and Chevelles and pushrods and musclecars when what much of Saturns customer service base wants are cars to battle Toyotas, Hondas, and VW's. Chevy WILL NEVER be able to challenge those 'intellectual makes' because the die hards and the dealers continue to fall back on past notions of what Chevy is and should be. Add to the fact that Saturnizing a Chevy lineup would ruffle the conservative midwesterners.

Saturn can grow GM much quicker and generate customer acceptance of GM much quicker right now operating with its leaner structure and less internal restrictions than trying to modernize Chevy, etc.

Saturns strength IS the customer so that's a great foundation to build off of. It has a lean cost structure compared to the other div's in terms of how much profit they can actually generate per dealer. And, the most important, they have the best chance of satisfying customers and bringing new ones in more quickly. Instead of propping up too many dealers, the unions, and all that other jazz.

GM made the decision that they Chevy and Saturn needed to be fundamentally different. They are moving that way. It had to be done. Saturn customers would never buy chevy's. Saturn customers will buy Opels. Once GM saw they couldn't resolve the two into one, they picked the wise direction. Chevy is now the worldwide GM equivalent of Kia, in a way.

Edited by regfootball

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Chicagoland    2

It funny that someone said Chevys are 'cheap' and BOP are 'better", when in fact for the past 25 yers, they have made the same cars in the same plants.

It's mostly old thinking that a Buick is 'better', even if they share the assembly line with those 'cheap' Chevys.

"Old think" is bringing GM down. Ignoring growing states/markets, thinking younger buyers will 'grow up and only buy GM', and that imports are a 'fad'. Also, thinking the Gov't will bail them out and restrict import makes. Not gonna happen.

Another 'old think' is "Oh just kill Saturn'. This from the same who slit thier wrists when Olds died. As if it won't cost a dime to pay off all the dealers and the huge embarrasment to GM?

Edited by Chicagoland

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sciguy_0504    0

BINGO!

and GM is so tired of propping up so many chevy dealers, whose sales per dealership no doubt are way behind toyota.

when this revitalized Saturn takes off, the amount of cars they will be pumping out per dealer will be incredible.  GM will love to prove to all the whiney and pissed off Chevy Buick and Pontiac dealers that its time to lean up and provide better customer service or risk being cut. 

And all you traditionalists whine about Saturn and say the cars should go to chevy but at the same time won't allow chevy to redefine itself to become a contemporary choice in today's society.  You still would rather have them selling Camaros and Chevelles and pushrods and musclecars when what much of Saturns customer service base wants are cars to battle Toyotas, Hondas, and VW's.  Chevy WILL NEVER be able to challenge those 'intellectual makes' because the die hards and the dealers continue to fall back on past notions of what Chevy is and should be.  Add to the fact that Saturnizing a Chevy lineup would ruffle the conservative midwesterners.

Saturn can grow GM much quicker and generate customer acceptance of GM much quicker right now operating with its leaner structure and less internal restrictions than trying to modernize Chevy, etc.

Saturns strength IS the customer so that's a great foundation to build off of.  It has a lean cost structure compared to the other div's in terms of how much profit they can actually generate per dealer.  And, the most important, they have the best chance of satisfying customers and bringing new ones in more quickly.  Instead of propping up too many dealers, the unions, and all that other jazz.

GM made the decision that they Chevy and Saturn needed to be fundamentally different.  They are moving that way.  It had to be done.  Saturn customers would never buy chevy's.  Saturn customers will buy Opels.  Once GM saw they couldn't resolve the two into one, they picked the wise direction.  Chevy is now the worldwide GM equivalent of Kia, in a way.

Without a doubt, the best post I have ever read from Reg and the best post on this whole matter. It completely changed my mind about Saturn and its massive potential.

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Cut the whole thing down to Chevy Saturn Caddy, b p gmc as rebadges in theur own dealerships or cut them completely. Other have said similar. With the "B" word floating about who knows. Protect the core product cut the weak

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The O.C.    2

Saturn is going to be way upscale from Chevy.  Saturn will really be competing with VW in the US market, in the "premium mainstream" segment.

If that's the case, and they come through with the product, then I like that scenario.

AURA.....competing with Jetta/Passat, Volvo S40, Acura TSX, etc., etc.....it could be a great alternative to those types of cars....

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regfootball    234

Without a doubt, the best post I have ever read from Reg and the best post on this whole matter.  It completely changed my mind about Saturn and its massive potential.

thanks!

...........

thanks?

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razoredge    0

to much nonsence here. Chevrolet sales speak for themselves, no one can argue with that, the Chevrolet sales arguement alone would be a good case to eliminate all other divisions.

Remember Im Mr Buick/Oldsmobile, so Im not putting a case up for Chevy but I know the truth about who sells cars.

this so called new saturin now has models of cars that belong at Buick.....as Buicks. This aura type car should be Buicks small classy luxury sedan. This sky kappa should be Buicks chance at a Kappa for enthousiasts. All luxury. All reworked Opels should be Buicks. The suvs should just be deleted. This "new" saturin is going to directly compete against Buick and Pontiac and Chevy with the small car. All this work should be going on in the REAL divisions of General Motors.

Everyone talks about perception, the perception of saturin is terrible, its like the American Yugo.

Its a stupid name

The company has never made any money

Ignorant people that say they would never buy a Buick, Pontiac or Chevy, say that because they dont know anything but statis quo, if Buick had these two models of cars sitting on their lot the ignorant perception would change. It certainly is no worse perception than the one that saturin already has. The buzz around the aura and sky would be even louder if similar cars were comming to Buick. You put the saturin product and R&D money into Buick and Pontiac and you can make this division thing work, keep up this one model here and one model there and you are killing the divisional potential......just what does everybody think been going on for the past 15 years ? .........to much worrying about saturn then Fiat and Saab. Thing is, saturin has been far more expensive. I have never met a person in my entire life that aspires to own a saturin.........think about it !

:ohyeah: "woo wee, I's just cants waits to get me a saturin"................ :blink:

The End

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wildcat    0

Well put, razoredge. Worth reading again.

P.S. to GM: Stop making your divisions fight against each other! Give them all distinction and definition, just Saturn keep out of Buick's territory.

Edited by wildcat

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