Used car prices - Wow!

[BuddyP]

What's up with the stupid prices on used vehicles now days? I started looking into used '07 Avalanches about 2 years ago. I thought the prices for a '07 where high then, now 2 years later a comparable optioned '07 Av is no less money!! I bought the Av when it was 2 years old and paid half of MSRP. Now a 3-4 year old vehicles is barely 70% of what it was new.

is there a "car bubble" that is going to pop?? Been in the market for purchasing for a year now. Just drove a loaded up '08 Tahoe.... $33k and that is actually "cheap".

[CSpec]

A dramatic change from Summer 2008 when people were desperate to get rid of gas guzzlers!

[z28luvr01]

Tell me about it. Every used Colorado/Canyon I've found that hasn't been beat to snot or has any options at all is hardly worth buying because the price difference isn't that much cheaper than its brand-new counterpart. I guess it's a good sign that GM's residual values are on the way up. It just that buying used isn't the big money saver it once was.

Thankfully, my used truck search might be coming to a close. More to come...

[BuddyP]

I'm just worried that as soon we we buy something prices are going to take a plunge. The new model Acadia's and GMT's are only a couple years away What's going to happen then?

I had the toughest time selling my '03 Z71 Av, which was probably one of the cleanest in the country, and I still see em with similar milage and options priced on lots for a good $5k more than I sold mine for.

Wife wants an Acadia/Outlook but I just can't justify paying near $30k for a small 4 year old vehicle even if it does have leather, moon roofs and maybe a DVD.... However, Outlooks are a good buy right now. They are a good $4k-$5k less than a comparable Acadia.

Edited August 18, 2010 by BuddyP

[regfootball]

A dramatic change from Summer 2008 when people were desperate to get rid of gas guzzlers!

my lease was up in 08 right around bank crash time. almost exactly 2 years ago.

my ford 500 had an MSRP of like 28,500, the 3 year residual per the lease on the car was about 16,500 or something like that.

I wanted to keep the car, but back then, i would have been buying that car for 16 and change and it was worth only 10 at the auction. i wanted to see if i could have found it after the fact. coulda bought similar ones for like 12-13 grand no problem.

I couldn't re-lease, everyone got rid of leases back then. so i bought my taurus X with 12k miles for about 21k. car was 10 months old and the sticker was 35 grand, so i got a great deal then but a really bad loan because of the ass clenching credit situation.

Now two years later, everything is up about 5 grand across the board indeed. I would have to pay more for that used 500 today than two years ago and my taurus X with 40k more miles on it and two years older could fetch close to the same price it did 2 years ago.

When we bought the cobalt back in april, i had researched just about every used car and in the end the prices all seemed so inflated to me i just could not justify it. So many cars with 50k+ on the odometer selling in the high teens for ordinary cars. My father in law bought his 08 Grand Prix as a rental return in 2008 and paid like 13 grand and change.....i even said to myself, 'yes you could live with a grand prix'......even the best deals on 08 grand prixs i found, everyone wanted 15 grand+ for now 2-3 year old ones, many without ABS, and now they all had 50k+ miles and they wanted 2 grand more than my father in law paid for his two years ago.

Its one thing to overpay for a new car, you know you will lose your ass. But to buy a half used up car at an inflated price.....you are stuck with it two years later, it's value has nosedived, yet you still owe big bucks. or, if you own it outright, you need to plan on keeping it forever, whatever you paid for it is completely lost.

The bailout allowed the US mfrs to change their business model so they won't have to rely so much on cheap volume cars like old grand ams to keep factories moving. Now, GM Ford etc is perfectly fine selling most of their product at high prices with the exception of a couple models which they try to build in Mexico, etc (Fusion, Fiesta).....Ford and Chevy don't want to sell in the spot Kia has taken over now, and nor do they need to apparently.

affordable commute cars for most folks become used cars, the starvation of new car sales the last two years made a pent up demand for car sales now, and the new stuff is too expensive so more people want used ones. But used cars are in short supply since fleet sales were starved too just like retail new sales the last couple years. No lease returns will be coming back for the next couple years either.

The automakers love it. the bailout and crash helped them out big time. they wrote off the crippling costs, were able to be subsidized to downsize their production or outsource it to make more money per transaction and more profit per vehicle, they trimmed dealer costs too. they have conditioned those few left that do have money these days that 35k price on a vehicle is a great deal! No wonder GM is excited to do the IPO!

I think there is a good opportunity right now if you can hunt down and find some good really old well cared for cars with low low miles, they are a good buy. Something like the Olds Intrigue (8+ years old) I spotted a couple months back with under 50k miles, perfect body, clean interior, can't remember the price. I think 7 grand. If you are willing to keep that car and drive it 5 years, then, that is a good way to go.

But the days of getting value for your money with a 2 year old car and low miles. GONE. it sucks because the new ones have gone up 5-10 grand just like the used ones too. But at least the odometer is at zero on the new ones.

Edited August 18, 2010 by regfootball

[regfootball]

I'm just worried that as soon we we buy something prices are going to take a plunge. The new model Acadia's and GMT's are only a couple years away What's going to happen then?

I had the toughest time selling my '03 Z71 Av, which was probably one of the cleanest in the country, and I still see em with similar milage and options priced on lots for a good $5k more than I sold mine for.

Wife wants an Acadia/Outlook but I just can't justify paying near $30k for a small 4 year old vehicle even if it does have leather, moon roofs and maybe a DVD.... However, Outlooks are a good buy right now. They are a good $4k-$5k less than a comparable Acadia.

exactly what i was worried about too.

You know I couldn't find any used Outlooks or Acadias at the time 4 months ago that had below 30,000 miles for less than about 25 grand. Most of them were around 30 grand and already had a lot of miles on them. I love the Lambdas, love them, but very pricey new or used. They seem to sell the Outlooks for the same price as Acadias up in this neck of the woods.

Its nuts. Even used Mitsubishi Outlanders they want 25 grand for them. INSANE! Used Malibus with 4 cylinders for 20-22 grand! insane!

You can periodically find a used front drive Ford Flex with about 10,000 miles on it for a price closer to 20k rather than 30, but you really have to accept the looks of it. The more loaded up one with AWD are closer to the big prices of the Lambadas.......

Edited August 18, 2010 by regfootball

[BuddyP]

exactly what i was worried about too.

You know I couldn't find any used Outlooks or Acadias at the time 4 months ago that had below 30,000 miles for less than about 25 grand. Most of them were around 30 grand and already had a lot of miles on them. I love the Lambdas, love them, but very pricey new or used. They seem to sell the Outlooks for the same price as Acadias up in this neck of the woods.

Its nuts. Even used Mitsubishi Outlanders they want 25 grand for them. INSANE! Used Malibus with 4 cylinders for 20-22 grand! insane!

You can periodically find a used front drive Ford Flex with about 10,000 miles on it for a price closer to 20k rather than 30, but you really have to accept the looks of it. The more loaded up one with AWD are closer to the big prices of the Lambadas.......

If options and towing aren't a big deal to you, you can pick up new '10 Outlooks for $26k ish. Of course these are FWD XE's at that price, but are new.

[Drew Dowdell]

I've seen 2002 Bravadas with 65k miles and they're asking $16k or $17k! Used Avalanche prices are insane, they have to be one of the best residuals out there. 2008s with 35k seem to be asking mid to high 30s for!

I nearly spit Dr. Pepper on my screen when a reply to an email about a '07 Ranger 4x4 V6 5-speed and 43k came back with a price quote of $17k!!

[SAmadei]

is there a "car bubble" that is going to pop?? Been in the market for purchasing for a year now. Just drove a loaded up '08 Tahoe.... $33k and that is actually "cheap".

I'm surprised no one has brought up Cash4Clunkers. While I do think GM's residual values are up... I also think that the secondhand market is being seriously squeezed at the newer end by less large cars/trucks being sold and at the older end by a large number of viable, perfectly functional cars being destroyed at the taxpayer's expense.

I don't generally shop the small car market, as few small cars are functional for me, so I'm not sure if this bubble is going on in that space... But in the "Grand Prix and larger" catagory, I'm pretty surprised how pricey things have been... pricey enough that I started looking at trucks... until I nearly fell over in sticker shock.

Hopefully something will give before these inflated prices and the current economy make the low end of the used car market look like Cuba's. ;-)

[caddycruiser]

All this used Av pricing talk...I'm now at month 6 of my '09 Z71...I was thinking it was about time to change

Working for a dealer now, it is interesting, I will say that. Not just what the values are coming back at, what things are auctioning for, etc. BUT what people, daily, are ready and willing to gladly pay for certain used vehicles. Trucks & SUV's, etc., for the most part because selection is so slim for everything, and trucks are even more so from there. I keep having customers looking for certain pre-owned trucks or SUV's, and often by the time something appears as a trade, it's gone by the time we get it to our used car list. F-250's are an example, and another which I'd consider to be the hottest...Excursions.

Traded in a loaded black '09 Tahoe Z71 4x4 with 25k miles for a '10 Ford Edge a couple weeks back (wanted smaller, but still sit up higher, and less "stuff I never use")...so many of the salespeople had a list of customers looking for such a ute, mileage, year, etc., wise, it was gone before we even got it on the list.

I bought a leftover '09 Av in February of '10 and am accordingly upside down, but it was a great deal. Then I look to what others are selling similar used '09s for now, with even 2-3x the miles already and am intrigued. Pondered trading it back in the summer for something random Ford, and was getting "$30-32k" back from local dealers...wonder if it's gone up now...

Don't even get me started on my G8 GT...if the February snow hadn't gotten me all stupid...and I kept it even just now into the summer, I'd have easily gotten THOUSANDS more for it than I did a few before...the appreciation on those have been fun to watch. Kick yourself in the back fun, but still.

Edited August 18, 2010 by caddycruiser

[Drew Dowdell]

I'm surprised no one has brought up Cash4Clunkers. While I do think GM's residual values are up... I also think that the secondhand market is being seriously squeezed at the newer end by less large cars/trucks being sold and at the older end by a large number of viable, perfectly functional cars being destroyed at the taxpayer's expense.

I think C4C is only a small factor here. I don't think the market for '89 Devilles that were selling for $3,000 is really going to affect the market for newish Fusions, Tauruses and Malibus...

I can see it being a factor for trucks though as C4C probably took a load of 80s and 90s F-150s, CK1500s, and Rams off the road.

[Blake Noble]

Used car prices are insane. The truth is, most of these prices are far above KBB values. It isn't so much "supply doesn't meet demand" as it is good old fashioned greed in most cases. The Dakota I'm going to try to walk away with tomorrow in an even swap is priced at $7,995 and that's a good $2,000 to even $4,000 bucks more than what I'm seeing other R/Ts in similar (and sometimes better) condition, sometimes two years newer, with similar miles, with more options, and an extended cab configuration selling for. Why that truck is priced that way, I'll never know. R/Ts are slightly uncommon, but they aren't as rare as a ZL-1 Camaro.

[BuddyP]

I've seen 2002 Bravadas with 65k miles and they're asking $16k or $17k! Used Avalanche prices are insane, they have to be one of the best residuals out there. 2008s with 35k seem to be asking mid to high 30s for!

I nearly spit Dr. Pepper on my screen when a reply to an email about a '07 Ranger 4x4 V6 5-speed and 43k came back with a price quote of $17k!!

Do you wish you would have grabbed my Av when it was for sale? I ended up selling it for $11,500 a year ago this month. Had 94k on it I think.

[BuddyP]

Used car prices are insane. The truth is, most of these prices are far above KBB values.

In some aspects they are, but this fully loaded "Ho" we looked at has a asking price of just under KBB private party price. I'd assume they'd move a bit which would get it only about a few hundred to a grand above trade in price. Yes I still think it's a huge amount of coin for a used 54k mile vehicle. But it probably had a $55-$56k sticker when new (remember '11's are out now, this thing being a '08 is going on 3 years old!).

Also all of the Acadia's I've looked at are priced right in the KBB private party area also. But there are deffinatly overpriced vehicles swarming the lots as well. Crazy to think any dealer could ask $35k for a '07 35k mile Acadia that doesn't even have Nav.

[SAmadei]

I think C4C is only a small factor here. I don't think the market for '89 Devilles that were selling for $3,000 is really going to affect the market for newish Fusions, Tauruses and Malibus...

As I said, its part of a three-way squeeze... but I think it can't be trivialized. The person wanting the '89 DeVille had to stretch and buy a '95. The guy who would have bought a '95 Caddy had to buy a '03 Buick Lucerne. The person who would have bought that took an '08 Malibu out of the market.

Its a domino effect. Its just more obvious with trucks.

[Intrepidation]

People, for whatever reason, seem to think their used cars are worth way more than they actually are.

[Drew Dowdell]

Do you wish you would have grabbed my Av when it was for sale? I ended up selling it for $11,500 a year ago this month. Had 94k on it I think.

I wish I could have... I just didn't have the means at the time.

[caddycruiser]

As I said, its part of a three-way squeeze... but I think it can't be trivialized. The person wanting the '89 DeVille had to stretch and buy a '95. The guy who would have bought a '95 Caddy had to buy a '03 Buick Lucerne. The person who would have bought that took an '08 Malibu out of the market.

Its a domino effect. Its just more obvious with trucks.

Now THAT is a good point...and observation.

I've seen it. And as for "why did they price it like that?"...well, lots of people are willing to pay certain $$ levels for lots of things, regardless of any book value or otherwise, and all it takes is for us to put a number down & go to work. Easier & quicker than even I had imagined, until having worked on this side.

[regfootball]

People, for whatever reason, seem to think their used cars are worth way more than they actually are.

a better and quicker way of summing it up. exactly.

If options and towing aren't a big deal to you, you can pick up new '10 Outlooks for $26k ish. Of course these are FWD XE's at that price, but are new.

are there any still around? Saturn WAS popular here so all the new outlooks cleared out fairly fast. AWD to me now is nice, but not a dealer breaker. just so long as its not RWD.

Edited August 19, 2010 by regfootball

[loki]

People, for whatever reason, seem to think their used cars are worth way more than they actually are.

if new ones are getting 5-10K+ more expensive than a few years ago... inflation. until gas skyrockets (again), any vehicle is worth more than it was several years ago, no matter the mileage, as long as it's pretty clean and runs well.

some of it is new chassises, new cars, new tech,... pushing people to buy used.

are these prices dealer prices or individual?

[Intrepidation]

if new ones are getting 5-10K+ more expensive than a few years ago... inflation. until gas skyrockets (again), any vehicle is worth more than it was several years ago, no matter the mileage, as long as it's pretty clean and runs well.

some of it is new chassises, new cars, new tech,... pushing people to buy used.

are these prices dealer prices or individual?

New cars have better resale, but the price of new cars has nothing to do with a car that hasn't been built in 6 years, for example. You use KBB or NADA as a reference for actual car values. I've seen classifieds for cars worth $5,000 at best being advertised for $8,000.

[daves87rs]

New cars have better resale, but the price of new cars has nothing to do with a car that hasn't been built in 6 years, for example. You use KBB or NADA as a reference for actual car values. I've seen classifieds for cars worth $5,000 at best being advertised for $8,000.

+1

And it's worse here...

I've seen shopping around here for a used small SUV, and have damn near $h! my pants looking at the prices...

I just saw an 01 Escape with 189k going for 9500......

I'm thinking of seriously buying an Escape/ Liberty with high miles/ but a good body and just putting a few bucks aside for the engine replacement...

A buddy of mine just picked up an 02 Escape with 137k (on the 3.0), and it is in really good shape. He's in the process of doing some updates, and is going to put a few bucks aside for another 3.0 to pick up...

[loki]

New cars have better resale, but the price of new cars has nothing to do with a car that hasn't been built in 6 years, for example. You use KBB or NADA as a reference for actual car values. I've seen classifieds for cars worth $5,000 at best being advertised for $8,000.

that's my point. if people can't buy 1st hand cars, but need a "new car" the 2nd hand market will get crowded. KBB or NADA, may not be able to predict this happening and thus have not changed any information. also C4C had decreased the amount of 2nd hand cars. possible increased demand while supply had been set back at "a couple years"... rise in prices.

it does sound like some of them are crazy, but in a year it shouldn't be so crazy, or it'll be normal by then. so plan wisely.

[regfootball]

New cars have better resale, but the price of new cars has nothing to do with a car that hasn't been built in 6 years, for example. You use KBB or NADA as a reference for actual car values. I've seen classifieds for cars worth $5,000 at best being advertised for $8,000.

again, spot on.

but then when you want to trade, all of a sudden the dealer looks at book as gospel. in order to screw you coming and going. sell for retail + 2000, trade in book minus all the little things we can find wrong with it.

[daves87rs]

that's my point. if people can't buy 1st hand cars, but need a "new car" the 2nd hand market will get crowded. KBB or NADA, may not be able to predict this happening and thus have not changed any information. also C4C had decreased the amount of 2nd hand cars. possible increased demand while supply had been set back at "a couple years"... rise in prices.

it does sound like some of them are crazy, but in a year it shouldn't be so crazy, or it'll be normal by then. so plan wisely.

Nope. Calling you on this one...

You'll first watch a jump in new car prices, to make the current cars look "cheaper"...automakers have been waiting years for a chance like this.

I see prices only rising at this point..

And you'll see more cars like I saw today, a 94 Escort w/ 99k going for 4k Obo.....

[loki]

I see prices only rising at this point..

i agree, unless tech, or amount of luxuries drastically change... you know, like tata different. you did mean new cars, right?

automakers have been waiting years for a chance like this.

they have to, commodities and labor prices haven't and aren't going down.

[Drew Dowdell]

We should turn this into a game. Guess the asking price!

Find an advertisement - Name the vehicle, mileage, and major amenities (drive train, engine, leather or not) and we guess the asking price.

I'll start with a few:

2004 Pontiac Aztec - 38k miles - V6 FWD - Cloth interior

2003 Ford Ranger - 135k miles - V6 M/T 4WD - Cloth Interior

[loki]

2004 Pontiac Aztec - 38k miles - V6 FWD - Cloth interior

2003 Ford Ranger - 135k miles - V6 M/T 4WD - Cloth Interior

2004- 16K

03- 12K

?

Edited August 20, 2010 by loki

[daves87rs]

We should turn this into a game. Guess the asking price!

Find an advertisement - Name the vehicle, mileage, and major amenities (drive train, engine, leather or not) and we guess the asking price.

I'll start with a few:

2004 Pontiac Aztec - 38k miles - V6 FWD - Cloth interior

2003 Ford Ranger - 135k miles - V6 M/T 4WD - Cloth Interior

tek- 15.5k

Ranger 11.5k

[Drew Dowdell]

One more guess and I reveal the prices.

[regfootball]

my aztek apparently had no trouble selling for the 7 grand asking price......transmission about a week away from death and all..........

it wasn't going to do me any good to pump the money into and fix it and try to sell it myself. people will give a dealer 7 grand for something with imminent repairs but i bet i wouldn't have been able to find any private party takers for 5 grand with repairs needed at the start.

whoever bought that was looking at 10,000 dollar bill at the start for a six year old car with 115k on it. i hope they like it for a LONG LONG TIME

i did find an attractive 05 or 06 fwd rendevsouz with 60k and in decent shape for around 10,800 at a dealer recently. i almost test drove it.

Edited August 20, 2010 by regfootball

[regfootball]

One more guess and I reveal the prices.

aztek 11995

ranger 11495

[Drew Dowdell]

If this were Price is Right! Reg would be the only partial winner.

Aztek - $12,995

Ranger - $9999

Reg gets to pick next.

[BuddyP]

Ok, here's a guess on a couple vehicles we are looking into...

'08 Tahoe LTZ all options - 54k miles

'07 Tahoe LT3 DVD, moonroof, luxury package - 42k miles

'09 Saturn Outlook all options except Nav - 18k miles

[regfootball]

If this were Price is Right! Reg would be the only partial winner.

Aztek - $12,995

Ranger - $9999

Reg gets to pick next.

well, i will defer to a later time. i was just looking at some dodge magnum AWD's those are outrageous too.

[daves87rs]

Ok, here's a guess on a couple vehicles we are looking into...

'08 Tahoe LTZ all options - 54k miles

'07 Tahoe LT3 DVD, moonroof, luxury package - 42k miles

'09 Saturn Outlook all options except Nav - 18k miles

I'm going at least 30 grand for each...

[CanadianBacon94]

i agree 34995 for the... 07'

[BuddyP]

'08 Tahoe LTZ all options - 54k miles: Been setting on the lot since the first week of June. Priced now at $33k, KBB private party $35k and change. We can get it for $32,500. A dealer a block down the road has a identical one right down to the milage. Just different colors. Asking price $39,995. A co-worker has a buddy of his that works there, said they gave $31,500 on trade in.

'07 Tahoe LT3 DVD, moonroof, luxury package - 42k miles: Sold last Friday, wish we could've got at this one. $27,900 (was told $27,500 was bottom dollar)... not far from KBB trade in!!

'09 Saturn Outlook all options except Nav - 18k miles: $32,778 for this one, too much for a saturn compared to other Outlook prices. But is a really nice vehicle.

The 2 Ho's are by far at the bottom of price range of Ho's for sale. Everything else comparible is considerably more coin.

Edited August 23, 2010 by BuddyP

[regfootball]

2008 Nissan Maxima. 33k miles.

leather, sunroof.

[daves87rs]

22995?