another used car shopping endeavor

[Robert Hall]

Minivan would be perfect for a teenager..would motivate him to save his $$$ and buy his own car..

[Suaviloquent]

Your son gets the best vehicle possible at the hands of your benevolence.

 

I wouldn't worry about image. But then again I don't have a son....

 

I figure I'm your son's age, and your son could do worse, like the glorified poverty wheels I use...

 

I figured it out...

 

Dodge Magnum!!!!

[smk4565]

What about Subaru Outback or Forester. Those have utility and Subaru's seem to last a long time without much maintence. And it has a Boxer engine just like a Porsche 911.

[ccap41]

It's been brought up but I don't recall a response or I just missed it but the previous generation Escape? 2.5 or 3.0(or hybrid). 

 

I just checked the ole AutoTrader and there are a handful of 70-85k miles and $10-12k range. There are a few straggler diamonds that are sub 60-50k miles and still under 12k. There is one that is 9998 and only 57k miles. 

 

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?endYear=2017&zip=62249&engineCode=4CLDR&maxPrice=12000&showcaseListingId=419839025&mmt=%5BFORD%5BESCAPE%5B%5D%5D%5B%5D%5D&modelCode1=ESCAPE&sortBy=mileageASC&startYear=1981&makeCode1=FORD&showcaseOwnerId=3251723&engineCodes=4CLDR&firstRecord=0&searchRadius=200&listingId=421553730&Log=0

[balthazar]

Last time I looked at a Forester, it had abysmal build & material quality. I thought it was a facsimile for the dealership floor, but it was an actual, factory-built production car.

Outback is so much better that it's like it's from another OEM.

 

Escapes are a possibility.

[smk4565]

Did we rule out the Subaru Baja?

[Suaviloquent]

What other hidden gem exists?

 

Reg has a mopar minivan, and he's more that satisfied...but like he said, your mileage may vary...

 

(I like how I inserted a pun that also was factual, but more along the lines of how everyone adds that grain of salt to their position by saying that. 3 birds in one stone. Yay!!!)

[balthazar]

Did we rule out the Subaru Baja?

Yes- can't stomach the mercedes-esque plastic cladding.

BTW; subaru's commercials got me puzzled. Right now, their campaign is aiming at… dogs. 

[ccap41]

Did we rule out the Subaru Baja?

Yes- can't stomach the mercedes-esque plastic cladding.

BTW; subaru's commercials got me puzzled. Right now, their campaign is aiming at… dogs.

I actually thought that commercial was cute. They were getting at, I think, how good of a ride it has that it'll put your kids to sleep who are normally all wound up and tough to get to sleep.

[balthazar]

Usually you use humans to depict humans. I'm not getting aspirational/ inspirational vibes from 'My dog loves my car'. 

[smk4565]

Oldsmobile Bravada or Buick Rainier or GMC Envoy with the straight six engine.  BMW-like performance.  Pontiac Torrent is probably cheaper to buy and cheaper to maintain though, and not quite as old as the GMT360s.

 

I bet those Mazda 5 van things are sort of cheap.  And Mazda builds a pretty good car and is often overlooked.

 

If you want a cheap van, Hyundai Entourage and Kia Sedona are there, and those have the 3.8 liter V6 with like 250 hp.

[balthazar]

GO back 5 yrs or more on a hyundai/kia and they're pretty much junk.

 

The Bravada/Rainier are getting old-ish, and they're closer in size to the Traverse vs. the Equinox anyway, aren't they?

[ccap41]

Yeah, they're pretty good size. My dad had an Envoy. Definitely larger than my Escape(Equinox competitor) by a decent margin. 

[balthazar]

Wife brought up leasing… which I have never crunched numbers on.

Basically, it's a long term rental, and at the end you have nothing. Not a fan. Frankly, I never understood the whole 'perpetual car payment' mentality.

[Suaviloquent]

I can do lease math. Super easy.

 

PM me if someone is giving you lease offers and on the weekend I'll do some stuffs.

 

Basically the rate they quote unless they are actually telling you "this is the period rate, this is EAR and NOW that's the APR"

 

is known colloquially as the "bad rate"

 

The "good rate" does not mean absurd low rates. No it, means what actually is the rate you are effectively paying... Or if you have a financial calculator, even easier.

 

A good lease person will also discount the payments via annuity factor to tell you how much the lease is actually worth in today's money. That's probably the best way to look at it.

 

If your discount rate per period is higher than the lease rate, over time the value of your lease payment will go down, effectively you will be paying less even if nominally you are paying more.

 

Leases are good if you can: 1. Do the math, it's easy enough. 2. Because of 1., you are in a superior position to negotiate, because you will catch how the hell does flat rate... lead to ever increasing payments?

 

Anyways, I reccomend leasing because if you do get a good deal, and you don't want to keep the vehicle... then yes you are renting...but if you can get your sum of lease payments to be "less" than what it would mean to dispose of the vehicle if you bought it, then you done did good!!!

 

Except sometimes in exchange for a low rate you get a $h!ty buyout, and that I'm afraid is something to consider.

[Robert Hall]

Wife brought up leasing… which I have never crunched numbers on.

Basically, it's a long term rental, and at the end you have nothing. Not a fan. Frankly, I never understood the whole 'perpetual car payment' mentality.

It makes sense if you don't want to deal w/ an aging car and the expenses and issues that come as the miles rack up.  I've thought about doing it, basically get a new car every few years....

 

I've been lucky w/ my Jeep for 16 years, but I don't trust it enough to stray very far from home even w/ AAA.  I always rent when I do a road trip..

 

Buying used cars is a dicey proposition, I've had mixed results and might consider something 2-3 years old, either regular or CPO, but with a warranty of some sort. 

Edited February 12, 2016 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[David]

Wife brought up leasing… which I have never crunched numbers on.

Basically, it's a long term rental, and at the end you have nothing. Not a fan. Frankly, I never understood the whole 'perpetual car payment' mentality.

My Brother in Law has only for the last 30 years leased auto's. Reason for this is as follows:

 

1) He likes to drive the current thing every two years. Hates old auto's.

2) Believes nothing is built to last so figures why mess with repairs.

3) He started out with sports car, changed easily into a family hauler, then into an SUV as the kids grew up and now into a mid size CUV for hauling the boat and going on trips with my sister, but smaller than a full size SUV since the kids are out of the house.

4)Easy to change back n forth between type of auto's going with stated #3.

 

Over all leasing is for some not all.

[balthazar]

A 2-yr old vehicle isn't "old"- this is not a 'piece of mind' regarding mechanicals/reliability; it's vanity. He's entitled to his reasoning, just call it what it is.

[balthazar]

 • • • SEARCH IS OVER, PAPERS SIGNED! • • •

 

Perhaps we might play '20 questions' to see if you guys can ID it.

Let's make it 11 questions tho.

Edited February 13, 2016 by balthazar

[oldshurst442]

Holy smokes...did the fat lady sing already?

I thought we were still on Act II Scene III in a 15 Act play...

 

I was ready to call this play...Much Ado About Nothing...but that title is already taken...

 

OK...I ribbed you enough.

 

Its obviously an American vehicle.

 

So...im gonna go with Ford Escape as my first guess.

[ccap41]

Dang, I was going to go with an Escape as well.. Uhhhh if not an Escape...

[Robert Hall]

Aztek, Rendezvous, TrailBlazer or Envoy.

[balthazar]

C'mon : 11 Questions : you have to ask questions answerable only by 'yes' or 'no' & try to deduce the vehicle.

 

Start over!

[Robert Hall]

What questions? Didn't see any...thought you wanted 11 guesses.

Edit: ah...you wanted us to ask questions.

 

Ok...FWD/AWD?

Edited February 14, 2016 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[David]

 • • • SEARCH IS OVER, PAPERS SIGNED! • • •

 

Perhaps we might play '20 questions' to see if you guys can ID it.

Let's make it 11 questions tho.

What did you get?

Compact size?

[oldshurst442]

I SEE...

 

So the fat lady has not sung yet, we are dragging the closing credits E-V-E-R.       S-O.    S  -   L   -  O  -   W  -  L   -  Y. 

 

SUV/CUV or wagon?

[balthazar]

Ok...FWD/AWD?

 RWD / 4WD

 

What did you get? Compact size?

I believe this would be considered mid-sized.

 

I SEE… So the fat lady has not sung yet, we are dragging the closing credits E-V-E-R.       S-O.    S  -   L   -  O  -   W  -  L   -  Y.  SUV/CUV or wagon?

Like you have anywhere to go on a Saturday night.

SUV

[Robert Hall]

V6?

[balthazar]

V6

[Robert Hall]

Hmmm...I'm thinking a GMT-360 or Explorer/Mariner.

 

Warmer or colder?

[ocnblu]

360's are inline 6.  Is it a Ford product?

[oldshurst442]

Its Saturday night?

 

I got to go...Ive got a hot date tonight...

With Don Cherry....Hockey Night in Canada!

 

Jeep Grand Cherokee... 2nd generation between years 2002-2004

[Robert Hall]

Its Saturday night?

 

I got to go...Ive got a hot date tonight...

With Don Cherry....Hockey Night in Canada!

 

Jeep Grand Cherokee... 2nd generation between years 2002-2004

Those had a straight 6 (mine is an '00 w/ the 6).....however, the 3rd gen from '05-10 had a V6, as did the Durango.  I can't see Balthy going w/ a Mopar, though.

360's are inline 6.  Is it a Ford product?

Forgot that detail..one of GM's forgotten engines.

Edited February 14, 2016 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[oldshurst442]

Did not know that...I6 and V6 thing on the GC...

 

You learn something everyday...

 

EXCEPT FOR WHAT BLOODY CAR BALTHY BOUGHT...

 

 

Question...

soccer mom stigma or real tough offroader?

[balthazar]

>>GMT-360<<

Nope

 

>>Explorer/Mariner<<

Nope

 

>>Jeep Grand Cherokee... 2nd generation between years 2002-2004<<

Nope

 

>>soccer mom stigma<<

Nope

 

>>tough?<<

:shrug:

 

>>I can't see Balthy going w/ a Mopar<<

​I've owned 2 MoPars out of my 23 vehicles, and there's defiantly some vintage ones I would LOVE to own...

Edited February 14, 2016 by balthazar

[smk4565]

What is the country of origin?

 

How many doors are on it?  (a grand cherokee for example is 5 door)

 

Do any doors slide?

 

Unibody or body on frame?

 

Is the vehicle still in production or a retired name plate?

Edited February 14, 2016 by smk4565

[Robert Hall]

Toyota 4Runner would be a good reliable choice, and it fits all the parameters so far..but I get the impression Balthy wouldn't go Japanese..

[balthazar]

A grand Cherokee is a 4-dr with a lift gate; passengers don't enter the vehicle thru hatches/lift gates, therefore they are NOT 'doors'.

I mean, I could enter a sedan thru the trunk & climb thru the fold-down rear seat, but that doesn't make the trunk a 'door' either.

Sorry, I refuse to succumb to this 'it's got moar!' marketing effort. 

 

1 question per post, please!

My official judgement is I've answered 8 questions, that leaves 3 more available in "11 Questions".

Almost there!

[Robert Hall]

A grand Cherokee is a 4-dr with a lift gate; passengers don't enter the vehicle thru hatches/lift gates, therefore they are NOT 'doors'.

Actually, 5dr is the standard designation for 4dr hatchbacks, has been for 3-4 decades.

Newer than 2010?

[smk4565]

What year is it from?

[balthazar]

 

A grand Cherokee is a 4-dr with a lift gate; passengers don't enter the vehicle thru hatches/lift gates, therefore they are NOT 'doors'.

Actually, 5dr is the standard designation for 4dr hatchbacks, has been for 3-4 decades.

 

We live with 'standard designations' that call a mercedes s-class a "full-size" when it is the same overall length as a Plymouth Volare.

We also live with dimensions (sanctioned perhaps by the Environmental Protection Agency?) that categorize front hip room with a measurement that completely ignores the inevitable center console everything on wheels has now, when the same given vehicle withOUT a console got the same exact full-width numbers.  

I'm aware of these things, but it doesn't make them technically correct. 

 

If you really subscribe to the theorem that a passenger or driver is going to enter a -say- Ford Explorer thru the rear lift gate, where they are not legally allowable to ride there, THEN climb over TWO rows of setbacks to get behind the wheel…. you are making your overlord masters VERY happy.

Edited February 14, 2016 by balthazar

[Robert Hall]

You are really pedantic and.or deranged, aren't you??   No one said anything about entering or exiting through the rear hatch... 3dr/5dr has been a standard designation for decades...even in the era of print magazines it was a standard designation--in the real world, not your fantasy world.

 

  And what in the hell do the dimensions of a Volare (a car from 40 years ago that few remember and fewer care about) have to do with anything???

Edited February 14, 2016 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[balthazar]

Ask yourself this, Moltie :: what has functionally changed with the vehicle itself when -for example- a 1980 Impala station wagon was a '4-dr wagon' but a Traverse is a '5-door'?

 

Once you eliminate the impossible that there's no functional or usage difference, whatever remains, no matter how improbable much the status quo, must be the truth marketing."

 

[Robert Hall]

Whatever..believe what you want to believe...3dr and 5dr have been applied to Rabbits, Golfs, Omnis, Escorts, etc since the 70s-80s..not just SUVs and CUVs..but I guess facts like that don't apply in the Ed Gein Fanclub. 

 

Anyway, back to the thread topic, gray, black or another color?

[balthazar]

Again; I understand that's been the terminology, but you see my point WRT the Impala wagon and a Traverse?

If there was a tangible reason to change the terminology, I would crawl back under the stairs and zip it.

 

I'll go one further; I'd be on board with calling a station wagon with those 3rd row, rearward-facing jump seats (IE: a '76 Buick Estate Wagon) a "5-door", because PEOPLE go thru DOORS. Otherwise, a trunk lid is a door too, and accepting that could signal The End of Times.

 

I'm done now.

 

- - - - -

Exterior is white.

And no; Balthy would never go japanese.

 

2 questions left...

[smk4565]

But all we know is a rwd/4wd SUV.   Color doesn't help any.  And it is American then as well?  We need to know what year it is from to hazard any kind of guess.  Or at least an era, like 90s, 2000-2005, 2005-2010 etc

Edited February 14, 2016 by smk4565

[balthazar]

It's newer than 2005...

I spent more than I had stated I wanted to, but that's a given in car shopping, IMO.

[smk4565]

That helps and rules out the Chevy Astro van, lol.

[Robert Hall]

I can only think of a few candidates--midsize RWD/4WD SUV, 2005 or newer, domestic, V6...Grand Cherokee, Durango/Aspen, Explorer/Mariner/Aviator, 1st gen SRX (long shot as it was more of a wagon than an SUV/CUV). 

Edited February 14, 2016 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[smk4565]

It is American right?  So we can rule out the Mercedes R-class diesel?  Because that is a V6 SUV.