another used car shopping endeavor

[oldshurst442]

"You know where you are?"

 

IM IN THE JUNGLE, BABY!

WHERE I COME ALIVE!

 

I carry my crucifix
Under my death list
Forward my mail to me in hell

 

East L.A. at midnight
Papa won't be home tonight

 

Take a ride with me on the wild side.

 

Edited January 21, 2016 by oldshurst442

[smk4565]

Pontiac Torrent. Those have to be dirt cheap at this point.

[balthazar]

Saw one sitting next to a same-year Equinox and the Torrent was a grand more. Guess it was the GXP package/rims- who knew there was a GXP Torrent??

[Suaviloquent]

I know I know I know I know.....

 

Get a minivan. Downsize two vehicles into one.

 

Reap the savings of operational costs spread over two vehicles into one.

 

Live life happy knowing that you're not alone in the downsizing trend. 

[balthazar]

Still juggling this issue up in the air & not making much progress.

[Drew Dowdell]

Saw one sitting next to a same-year Equinox and the Torrent was a grand more. Guess it was the GXP package/rims- who knew there was a GXP Torrent??

 

The GXP Torrant has the 3.6 DOHC rather than the 3.4 Pushrod.... it was made specifically to appease SMK. 

[ccap41]

 

Saw one sitting next to a same-year Equinox and the Torrent was a grand more. Guess it was the GXP package/rims- who knew there was a GXP Torrent??

 

The GXP Torrant has the 3.6 DOHC rather than the 3.4 Pushrod.... it was made specifically to appease SMK. 

 

RWD as well?

[Drew Dowdell]

 

 

Saw one sitting next to a same-year Equinox and the Torrent was a grand more. Guess it was the GXP package/rims- who knew there was a GXP Torrent??

 

The GXP Torrant has the 3.6 DOHC rather than the 3.4 Pushrod.... it was made specifically to appease SMK. 

 

RWD as well?

 

 

sure, if you disconnect the front CV joints.

[ccap41]

Saw one sitting next to a same-year Equinox and the Torrent was a grand more. Guess it was the GXP package/rims- who knew there was a GXP Torrent??

 

The GXP Torrant has the 3.6 DOHC rather than the 3.4 Pushrod.... it was made specifically to appease SMK.

RWD as well?

 

sure, if you disconnect the front CV joints.

If it isn't then it wouldn't appease to SMK. lol

[smk4565]

Saw one sitting next to a same-year Equinox and the Torrent was a grand more. Guess it was the GXP package/rims- who knew there was a GXP Torrent??

That is right, I forgot there was a Torrent GXP.  I almost forgot about GXP Pontiacs altogether, and I just suddenly had a Northstar Bonneville flashback.  I think the GXP Torrent had like 245 hp V6, but that is just working off memory.

[smk4565]

 

Saw one sitting next to a same-year Equinox and the Torrent was a grand more. Guess it was the GXP package/rims- who knew there was a GXP Torrent??

 

The GXP Torrant has the 3.6 DOHC rather than the 3.4 Pushrod.... it was made specifically to appease SMK. 

 

I just looked up the Torrent GXP, it is better than I thought.  264 hp and 250 lb-ft at 2,300 rpm.   The DOHC design really makes it a winner.   Also remember the Saturn Vue Red Line which had a Honda sourced 3.5 liter V6 with V-Tech!

 

Too bad they never put the Northstar V8 in an SUV, besides the SRX, which the gen 1 SRX is probably under $10,000 now, but probably high miles.

Edited January 23, 2016 by smk4565

[smk4565]

Actually in thinking about it, almost any car that added a DOHC engine got better.  The C4 Corvette with the 1991 ZR-1 had a DOHC V8 and get better.  The Pontiac Torrent GXP, Bonneville GXP, Buick Lucerne Super, Malibu when it switched from the 3500 V6 to the 3.6 DOHC, even Mercedes when they dropped the 3.2 V6 and 5.0 SOHC twin spark V6 and V8 for the DOHC 3.5 and 5.5 V6 and V8s.  

[oldshurst442]

Actually in thinking about it, almost any car that added a DOHC engine got better.  The C4 Corvette with the 1991 ZR-1 had a DOHC V8 and get better.  The Pontiac Torrent GXP, Bonneville GXP, Buick Lucerne Super, Malibu when it switched from the 3500 V6 to the 3.6 DOHC, even Mercedes when they dropped the 3.2 V6 and 5.0 SOHC twin spark V6 and V8 for the DOHC 3.5 and 5.5 V6 and V8s.  

I dont care for the other cars you mentioned...but about that C4 Vette...

 

Lets talk about that...

 

The years BEFORE the C4 Vette was introduced, there was a dark time in the automobile industry.

Just before those hard times. Good times were had.

 

OK...

The good times.

1. All cars used leaded gasoline.

2. horsepower wars galore.

3. torque was abundant.

4. Cubic inches ruled the world.

 

The bad times

1. Engines slowly got off of leaded gasoline.

2. Catalytic converters were installed.

3. Insurance rates for high horsepower cars skyrocketed

3. Oil and gasoline was restricted because OPEC.

 

so...engines suffocated and made literally no horsepower...

 

The C4 Vette comes along...

The engines BEFORE the LT-5 that resided in the C4 were just engines from an era that muffled horsepower.

 

However, when the LT-5 arrived, a new Chevy small block also arrived, the LT-1. And this new LT-1 was engineered without the lazy 1970s oil embargo, catalytic converter, unleaded mess of "crossfire" V8 crap...

 

The LT-1, upgraded to LT-4, made just about the same amount of horsepower, more torque, more reliable, smaller package and cheaper to build...

THAT was the end for DOHC in a Corvette.

While the DOCH LT-5 ZR-1 Vette propelled the Vette in supercardom once again like how big block and small block Vettes were of yore...the LT-1 and the LS-1 small blocks and their derivatives have propelled the Vette in a stratosphere where many DOHC exotic automobiles wished they were.

 

Reliabilty.

Ease of maintenance.

Daily Driven robustness.

And very high horsepower with an equal amount of torque...

 

So no...DOHC really did not improve the Vette...

Edited January 23, 2016 by oldshurst442

[regfootball]

 

Saw one sitting next to a same-year Equinox and the Torrent was a grand more. Guess it was the GXP package/rims- who knew there was a GXP Torrent??

 

The GXP Torrant has the 3.6 DOHC rather than the 3.4 Pushrod.... it was made specifically to appease SMK. 

 

and there was briefly a matching Equinox sport, nay?

 

I remember getting Pontiac mailers pushing the Torrent GXP, well it had the red dash lighting, that would have been the deciding factor!

[Drew Dowdell]

 

 

Saw one sitting next to a same-year Equinox and the Torrent was a grand more. Guess it was the GXP package/rims- who knew there was a GXP Torrent??

 

The GXP Torrant has the 3.6 DOHC rather than the 3.4 Pushrod.... it was made specifically to appease SMK. 

 

and there was briefly a matching Equinox sport, nay?

 

I remember getting Pontiac mailers pushing the Torrent GXP, well it had the red dash lighting, that would have been the deciding factor!

 

 

Yup.

[Robert Hall]

Interesting thread. I'm starting to look around for what to replace my Jeep with, thinking about going to CPO route. Don't want something w too many miles.

[balthazar]

Moltie, you're a Jeep guy- how are they in general?

[Robert Hall]

I think in general they are pretty decent overall as far as reliability, better than Consumer Reports rankings, at least in my experience. I can't speak for the newer ones, but mine is 16 yrs old, 163k. Other than an appetite for rotors, it was fine the first 100k, just routine maintenance. As it's gotten older, I've had a variety of electrical issues--coil packs, lots of sensors, power window and power mirror failures. Some engine leaks (common on the 4.0l6). Some of the issues I've had are probably due to the extremely harsh climate I live in (cooling system issues). But it remains tight and rattle free. I'd buy another Jeep, though I'm only considering the '11 and up 4th gen GCs, I don't care for the '05-10 3rd gen models-- they cheapened the interiors and the exterior was too blocky Imo. Not sure about the new Fiat era models like the Cherokee and Renegade...

[regfootball]

since the discussion came around the Torrent GXP and a small mention of the Equinox Sport, just remember the Suzuki XL7 from 2007+ was the first implementation of the 3.6 GM motor in that chassis.  The XL7 really was a stretched Equinox and probably 2/3 of them out there were equipped with 3rd row.  Literally was a fully rebadged genuine GM product.

 

I only mention this because they are inexpensive to buy if you search thoroughly and find the right one with low miles that has been taken care of.  They aren't perfect, but as an alternative to an Equinox or Torrent with a little more cargo room, they might be worth a look.  And the sticker under the hood says GM too.  I think it had some of the same 3.6 gremlins that other GM products had from the start, and the interior is spartan, but the Equinox then was nothing posh either.

 

I only think its worth looking at if you can save a few thousand vs. something comparable (i.e. Torrent / Equinox ) and just invest in a warranty.  It's a little like the 2011 Saab 9-5.....if you can find one that's a good buy, its like a Saab LaCrosse with the 2.0 GM turbo motor.

Edited January 26, 2016 by regfootball

[balthazar]

2004 Vue, V6, AWD, zero damage externally, wheels painted flat black (factory?), interior looks mint. White outside, grey inside. Mileage unknown, asking $4900 OBO.

[Suaviloquent]

Ahhh... I think you're getting fleeced at that price.

 

$1500 is all I would go.

 

Because a quick search (in CDN funds too) you get vehicles with $h!ty mileage and something like $1750 asking price.

[daves87rs]

If you get the Vue, get the one with the Honda  v6 in it (3.5). Bit more power, will run forever.....

[balthazar]

Ahhh... I think you're getting fleeced at that price.

 

$1500 is all I would go.

 

Because a quick search (in CDN funds too) you get vehicles with $h!ty mileage and something like $1750 asking price.

Searched by me, lowest of 6 '04 Vues is $3800 with 134K. Highest is $5995 with 76K. 

What's the story on the Dodge Nitro? Shares platform with a Jeep, correct?

[Robert Hall]

 

Ahhh... I think you're getting fleeced at that price.

 

$1500 is all I would go.

 

Because a quick search (in CDN funds too) you get vehicles with $h!ty mileage and something like $1750 asking price.

Searched by me, lowest of 6 '04 Vues is $3800 with 134K. Highest is $5995 with 76K. 

What's the story on the Dodge Nitro? Shares platform with a Jeep, correct?

 

Yes, shares platform w/ the Jeep Liberty.  My sister drove a rental one from Ohio to Az a few years ago...I drove it a couple times, decent enough, but the interior materials are very cheap and nasty in that late 2000s way...(Chrysler products in the late Daimler and Cerebus periods seems to have uniformly nasty interiors).

Edited February 5, 2016 by Cubical-aka-Moltar

[Suaviloquent]

Okay maybe the ones I looked at are private party sellers, so no chance of being vetted or being certified pre-owned.

[smk4565]

I think the Nitro is really cheaply made, those Dodge/Chrysler 2005 era vehicles had early 90s GM car level interiors.   I think the Vue with the 3.5 V6 is a good option, because those Honda engines do run forever.  You could get 250,000 miles on it probably.

[oldshurst442]

I think the Nitro is really cheaply made, those Dodge/Chrysler 2005 era vehicles had early 90s GM car level interiors.   I think the Vue with the 3.5 V6 is a good option, because those Honda engines do run forever.  You could get 250,000 miles on it probably.

The motor might run forever, but did the Saturn Vue Redline come with Honda's 5 speed automatic?

Because I know that thr Vue Redline did in fact have a 5 speed auto...and if its Honda's unit, that automatic had issues staying intact...so while the motor might be flawless, expensive repairs to the transmission will be made...

[balthazar]

Pretty sure it's not a Red Line.

Are all this year Vue V-6s the Honda engine, or were there 2 V6s?

Edited February 6, 2016 by balthazar

[oldshurst442]

Pretty sure it's not a Red Line.

Are all this year Vue V-6s the Honda engine, or were there 2 V6s?

I found a Car&Driver article saying that its one engine....for both V6 regular Vue and for Red Line Vue.

 

http://www.caranddriver.com/news/the-shock-of-a-hondafied-vue-car-news

 

That would be the Saturn Vue with the 3.5-liter V-6 designed and built by Honda that will supply 250 horsepower at 5800 rpm and 242 pound-feet of torque at 4500 rpm and is supposed to deliver a 0-to-60 time of about seven seconds through a five-speed automatic transmission. That's 10 more horsepower than Honda lists for its own Pilot sport-ute and 10 fewer than the Acura MDX sport-ute can claim, although both use the same basic powerplant. This won't make you the terror of your intersection runoffs, but it should make you the Wyatt Earp of sport-cutes. It's also a smoother, more powerful engine (by 69 hp) than the GM 3.0-liter V-6 it replaces.

This engine will be available as an option with regular versions of the Vue and as the heart of Saturn's Red Line performance package, pictured here

 

[balthazar]

Looking at a brochure online and yes: there's 1 V6 for the '04 Vue, the 250 HP 3.5L.

Cargo area with rear seat down is 64 CF- not too bad. Overall length 181".

2004 rating: 19/25.

 

Wondering now about the honda transmission….

 

Other than that, the specs aren't bad.

 

EDIT :: reading too many trans-related questions/issues online. If I wanted trans issues, I'd keep driving the Taurus.

Vue is out.

Edited February 7, 2016 by balthazar

[Suaviloquent]

The used car market has been terrible for buyers recently...

 

How about a last gen Mazda Tribute?

 

It's a completely rebadged last gen Ford Escape, so I think it might still qualify for your domestic brand preference. Basically the difference between the two is the same as the Ford Crown Vic and Mercury Grand Marquis, so there's really no difference other than a different front end clip.

[oldshurst442]

Is it official though,Balthy? That the Vue used Honda's 5 speed transmission...

 

And if it indeed was Honda's unit, was it as problematic as it was in Acura TLs and Honda Accords and Honda Odysseys?

And did the Saturn Vue's transmission with that Honda V6 actually have issues...

 

Just questions that need answers because you might be missing out on a very good vehicle.

 

I just wanted to shed a light on the transmission issue because I am not sure myself, so I wanted you to be aware of potential problems.

But these potential problems may not exist with a Honda sourced Saturn Vue V6.

 

These issues are very real for Honda's vehicles though...

[oldshurst442]

Or yeah, Like Suave mentioned,  a Mazda Tribute or Ford Escape.

 

Two great vehicles which are basically the same thing and no issues. Well... that Im aware of anyway.

[Suaviloquent]

Those two twins were not shoddily built actually.

 

They just had an antiquated platform, and somewhat chugging fuel mileage.

 

I would go for the Duratec V6 euipped models just because I don't trust any other engine they might have had.

 

You might not get ESC, and a lot of people say that's like a must have safety feature. They had good visibility, so your eyes will make excellent backup cameras.

[Suaviloquent]

Or yeah, Like Suave mentioned,  a Mazda Tribute or Ford Escape.

 

Two great vehicles which are basically the same thing and no issues. Well... that Im aware of anyway.

 

I would hesitate to say they were great vehicles.

 

If you've ever heard of the Metro Foods chain's Food Basics or Discount Loblaw's No Frills, that's what I'd consider the Ford Escape from that time.

 

It's like the Krogers I guess of America.

 

It's not whole foods, It's not the Honda CR-V or Toyota RAV4 of that time. 

[balthazar]

Toyota's in this era were too often shoddy, I wouldn't put my money down on a toyota.

 

From what I read, all the post '03 Saturn 3.5L were honda engine/trans. Yes, I saw people with Vue's having honda trans issues; don't see why it would be different depending on the vehicle it's in...

[Suaviloquent]

That's fine, I agree, there were many examples too of shoddy examples of Japanese makes.

 

But that goes against though why people bought the cars.

 

Any car well serviced should be pretty reliable.

[balthazar]

'Perception' often trumps reality, tho.

[daves87rs]

Interesting, since two members of my family have the 3.5 Vue (05, 07), and neither have trans issues. My aunt even changes the tranny fluid on hers every 50k....

 

 

Could still even look into the 4 banger one with the 2.2 Ecotec engine. They have much less in the way of balls, but they still get around pretty well, and it's a solid engine with the 4 speed auto.

 

 

This coming from a guy who is running 3 2.2 Ecotec engines currently....

Edited February 7, 2016 by daves87rs

[balthazar]

Going today to 'lot skulk'… will report tonight.

[Robert Hall]

Going today to 'lot skulk'… will report tonight.

Are car lots closed on Sunday in NJ?   That's one thing I miss about places I lived in the past..was fun to go 'tire kicking' on Sundays and stroll around looking at cars without being hassled by sales resource units.   Everything is open on Sundays here.

[ccap41]

Those two twins were not shoddily built actually.

 

They just had an antiquated platform, and somewhat chugging fuel mileage.

 

I would go for the Duratec V6 euipped models just because I don't trust any other engine they might have had.

 

You might not get ESC, and a lot of people say that's like a must have safety feature. They had good visibility, so your eyes will make excellent backup cameras.

They're still using the 2.5 from those generations. I'd very much trust the 2.5 still. It might not be the most efficient or powerful motor out there but it's been a workhorse for Ford.

[ccap41]

Going today to 'lot skulk'… will report tonight.

Are car lots closed on Sunday in NJ?   That's one thing I miss about places I lived in the past..was fun to go 'tire kicking' on Sundays and stroll around looking at cars without being hassled by sales resource units.   Everything is open on Sundays here.

Here in IL and MO the dealers are closed but you can still look around without being hassled. I've done it myself before...and if I find something I have questions about ill get ahold of somebody when they are open.

[balthazar]

Ya- they're all closed here on Sundays. Always a few fellow 'skulkers' on each lot.

 

Walked an 'Auto Lenders' monster lot, seem to all be maybe off-lease vehicles, very clean but no older than '13 and most everything over $20K. 

Buick-GMC lot, Chevy lot, Ford lot, … not seeing any specific candidates.

 

There seems to be a used market gap between the sub 40K mile off-lease vehicles, and the 90K plus 5-yr old & older vehicles. Makes sense, but doesn't help me out.

 

Will keep looking.

[Robert Hall]

One thing I've seen a fair bit around here are the 2-3 year old vehicles with 60- 70k miles... akkk...too many miles on something that recent..

[balthazar]

Agreed. Also seeing the local used dealers trying to sell vehicles with 200+K miles- who's buying that?? 

[Suaviloquent]

So Mopar Minivan off the table?

 

What about a Ford Freestar?

 

Or Freestyle or Taurus X?

Someone with no money down and an amortization period for a loan into 48+ months range with negative credit and no income and maxed out lines of credit, defaulted 3rd mortgage....

 

yeah that's what the 200,000 miles plus vehicles are for.

[balthazar]

I don't know what it is about the minivans, but I'm shying away from them. Maybe all it is is image, IDK.

 

I haven't noticed a local taurus X advertised...

 

Circled a super slick white Stingray Z51 convert for fun, wow are they wild up close, sticker was $81,8xx!

[Suaviloquent]

What's worse though?

 

Seems like to me your vehicle of choice is already for low yearly miles and utility usage.

 

When it comes to utility, who the hell cares about image?

 

If I had, I just had to have the capability to do hardware/construction materials store runs and buy tons of materials, tools and contraptions, and I wanted it all done in a enclosed vehicle, I would have to by default get a minivan - given by what I think you do a lot of....

 

Unless you want a microvan. Then there's the soon to be defunct Mazda 5, which of course is not domestic. Ford Transit Connect, but absurd miles.

[balthazar]

This is a 3rd vehicle, mostly for my son to drive.

I have my crew cab 2500HD for those things you mentioned. No- the bed on mine is open, but I work around that with few issues.

I watch a friend of mine who's a painter work out of a Honda Element… way too tight IMO for him. Yes, I know that's smaller than the typical minivan.

 

Transit connects I've ruled out- too much dollars for what you get.

Edited February 8, 2016 by balthazar