Cheers and Jeers for 2017

[bobo]

Well, that was a fast year.  Here are some of the things that happened in 2017:

A new American President was sworn into office and found to be a truth-challenged, serial golfing narcissist whose primary goal appeared to be undoing all the achievements of his predecessor.  His own crowning achievement was a windfall of wealth to corporate America and its officers at the expense of the lower and middle classes, future generations, and blue states.

A series of hurricanes swept through the Gulf of Mexico and ravaged Florida, Texas, and Puerto Rico, resulting in hundreds of billions of dollars in damages.  The country's deadliest mass shooting occurred in Las Vegas at the Route 91 Festival from a madman in the Mandalay Bay Resort and Casino.  Last year's abundant rainfall in California gave way to some of the worst wildfires in California history that wiped out communities.  In Hollywood and Washington D.C. the “#MeToo” movement gave power to sexual assault victims and toppled entertainment and political titans. The fidget spinner fad peaked.

Prominent passings in the entertainment industry included Mary Tyler Moore, Sean Cassidy, Adam West, Roger Moore, Tom Petty, and Chuck Berry.

In the automotive world, passenger sedans continued to fall out of favor, with the future of the Chevy Impala and Ford Fusion in doubt.  Cadillac will be consolidating several sedans under a single nameplate.  New versions of the Toyota Camry and Honda Accord were introduced.  The march towards fully autonomous vehicles continued, and Uber inked a deal with Volvo for fully autonomous vehicles. Vehicles that went away include the Viper, Buick Verano, Hyundai Azera, Honda Accord Coupe, Nissan Juke, and Volkswagen Touareg.

GM rid itself of Opel to the PSA Group, which decided it overpaid and wants half its money back because of vehicle emissions and what they deemed to be the lack of a credible plan to get the fleet to conformity.

In the aftermath of Dieselgate, Volkswagen is going all-in with electric vehicles.  China, France, and the U.K. look to ban new vehicles with internal combustion engines in about 20 years, and California considers the same.  GM, Volvo, Toyota and others announced major electrification efforts for their fleets within five years.

I was barely on the C&G boards the past year because of job and family, and my interest in personal transportation has shifted to human-powered two-wheeled devices and EVs (my household has two).  I have cobbled together the 16th Anniversary Edition of Cheers and Jeers, but I'm unfortunately unable to note whatever drama has been happening in the forums since I wasn't here enough to experience it.  Here are some automotive highlights and lowlights:

Cheers to Lincoln for Best Move by bringing back real names.  The MKX is being reborn as the Nautilus with its refresh as Lincoln goes with a nautical theme.  If only Cadillac would rid itself of the awful CT and XT naming convention.

Cheers to Tesla for Best Car Reveal by surprising everyone and bringing out a new Roadster from the back of the Semi after revealing that.  The Semi is also significant for its moderate $150k cost and up to 500 mile range if they can deliver.

Jeers to Tesla for the slow roll-out of the Model 3, which was not ready for prime time and beset by welding issues.

Cheers to Mazda for Best New Engine Technology with their Homogeneous Charge Compression Ignition gas engine that is projected to have 30% better fuel economy when introduced in the 2020 Mazda3.

Cheers to Chevy for the Best Truck Reveal in the surprising introduction of the new 2019 Silverado at the Chevy truck centennial celebration at the Texas Motor Speedway.

Cheers to FCA for increasing sales of the aging Ram, even surpassing the Silverado for a few months.  Ford, with the new Super Duty trucks, increased domestic truck sales the most and outsells Silverado and GMC Sierra combined.

Cheers to Kia for Best New Sedan for the Stinger.  Who would have imagined that once-lowly Kia would sell a RWD or AWD car that is competitive with the BMW 3 Series?  It helps to have talent that was at Audi and BMW.

Jeers to Honda for Most Disappointing New EV for the class-lagging Clarity with only 89 miles of range.  Only the Fiat 500e and smart fortwo electric have lower ranges now that the Mitsubishi i-MIEV and Mercedes B250e are no longer sold in the US.  The Plug In Hybrid and Fuel Cell versions of the Clarity are decent though. 

Wishing all a safe, prosperous, and Happy New Year!

[Drew Dowdell]

Thanks for this @bobo I look forward to it every year.

[David]

Awesome @bobo, Hope to see you post more about EV's and your Two Wheel fascination.  

[Drew Dowdell]

Oh and bobo, you definitely should stick around... I want to add 2-wheel news to C&G this year.

[David]

I agree with Drew @bobo you really need to stick around and add 2-wheel news to our alternative forum. 

This local Seattle company has exploded with sales of EV Bikes.

https://www.electricbikeseattle.com/

Some pretty cool tech.

[ocnblu]

Well I used to look forward to this each year, but I didn't bother reading past the unnecessary, inflammatory, untrue first paragraph.

Edited January 3, 2018 by ocnblu

[oldshurst442]

Seeing Im still in a 1980s state of mind...

The more things change, the more they stay the same. 

Quote

 

Now, did you read the news today?
They say the danger has gone away
But I can see the fire's still alight
They're burning into the night

There's too many men, too many people
Making too many problems
And there's not much love to go around
Can't you see this is the land of confusion?

 

 

 

Edited January 3, 2018 by oldshurst442

[A Horse With No Name]

13 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

Seeing Im still in a 1980s state of mind...

The more things change, the more they stay the same. 

 

 

Rock and roll is still the best way to mock the status quo...we need a new version of this for 2017.

16 hours ago, ocnblu said:

Well I used to look forward to this each year, but I didn't bother reading past the unnecessary, inflammatory, untrue first paragraph.

If anything he was overly kind.

[oldshurst442]

41 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

Rock and roll is still the best way to mock the status quo...we need a new version of this for 2017.

If anything he was overly kind.

This post should have been divided into two.

Two different ideas requiring to separate upvotes.  I could only give you one upvote.

Rock-N-Roll from the very humble beginnings of it being a mix of black and white music (but it being more heavily influenced by the black part) and it being a youth rebellion against the old fogeys of the time plus it being called the Devil's music in the bible belt (because it was black music) is exactly perfect for it.

In the 1960s...it became a way to tell the government to shove it (on several social problems of the day) and to give the status quo  the middle finger. All that youthful rage continued on to the 1980s.

Sexuality...and rock-n-roll....

It blew the taboo blinders off with an explosion equal to an atomic bomb. 

Rock-n-Roll...no better way to rebel. 

About the current Pres in charge. 

Well...I aint about gonna get meself into trouble because this site is JUST ABOUT the automobile and nothing else...

I do wanna just state one gripe I have...and its not about the President in charge.

Its about the whiny posters in this website.

One poster writes something negative about a certain Presidents and downvotes are everywhere.

Whiny posts about defending that one President...

You know what?

I too...have feelings about the President in charge!

Mine are probably the opposite of yours...

YOU may happen to adore what HE is doing for whatever reasons. WHICH IS FINE!

HOWEVER...HIS MAJESTY'S policies that YOU align yourself with has a NEGATIVE affect ON MY life...

I get that if HIS MAJESTY'S policies reflected a benefit for MY lifestyle, it be a NEGATIVE on YOUR life...

 

Which is just phoquing fantastic???!!!

But that is the thing...

I HAVE TO BE SENSITIVE TO YOUR BLOODY VIEWS...

YOU DONT HAVE TO BE SENSITIVE TO MINE!!! 

I AT LEAST ACKNOWLEDGE AND RESPECT your POV!

YOU dont return the favour to me!

Without naming names...posters.

That lying sack of shyte is ready to destroy trillions of trade dollars between the US and Canada...all to benefit the American consumer???!!!

Boeing...soft lumber...and countless of other aspects of the trade relationship Canada has with the US.

You dont know how badly Canada has bent over backwards for the greater good of money between our two countries over the past few decades...

And this lying sack of shyte treats MY political leader like a joke? Like a child? 

Conservatives in my country hate Trudeau and have laughed at him the same way(his hair)this aint about that though...

That hate is also a hate because the man is French...well...he has a French name. THAT would be enough to hate him...

But...your lying sack of shyte is making it hard for me to buy ANYTHING American as of late. 

So...when someone tries to lecture me about how  a certain paragraph is unnecessary and untrue and all of that...I also get a tad annoyed by THAT point of view! 

Either DEAL with the fact that the lying sack of shyte in office is exactly that...a lying sack of shyte...or just roll with the punches and just say the man in the White House is a polarizing figure and he has many people that dont like him...

I DO accept that the President of the United States of America has a job to do...and if his decisions are to better his country a certain way...then so be it...even if it means pissing me off in the process. 

I could live with that...

But please...spare me YOUR crying. 

Because as you could see...I also have deep issues regarding the President of the Untied States of America.  For or against...

(I may be Canadian...but I want MY Prime Minister to DEFEND the RIGHTS of Canadians and Canadian BUSINESSES regarding the USofA) 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 3, 2018 by oldshurst442

[A Horse With No Name]

Cars are my way to escape. lets get back to cars.

2017 saw me get a car my wife and daughters love.  Having lots of fun with my family. That is what matters.

Edited January 3, 2018 by A Horse With No Name

[David]

2018 is an exciting year as we see what EV concepts are shown as well as the move by all companies to embrace more CUV / trucks as they reduce the car thing, so much excitement, so little time to enjoy it all.  

[ocnblu]

The rules were broken.  Hence the downvote.  Then to make matters worse, the site owner only selectively enforces his own rules as stated for all of us to see.  I do not give a rat's ass what your political views are, but they should be kept out of here except in the section dedicated to the subject.  I did not start this fight, but I am damned sure not going to let it go unanswered.

[oldshurst442]

23 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

The rules were broken.  Hence the downvote.  Then to make matters worse, the site owner only selectively enforces his own rules as stated for all of us to see.  I do not give a rat's ass what your political views are, but they should be kept out of here except in the section dedicated to the subject.  I did not start this fight, but I am damned sure not going to let it go unanswered.

BULLSHYTE!!!

23 hours ago, ocnblu said:

but I didn't bother reading past the unnecessary, inflammatory, untrue first paragraph.

That there...

is admittance of taking a defensive side...

BTW.

Your social justice warrior shyte gets old. 

Bobo mentioned HIS views on how he feels about the President of the United States of America on on how the year ended up being with him being in charge. 

YOU or even Drew cant stop freedom of expression. And even though this site tries hard to avoid the political stuff, its bound to phoquing happen from time to time. 

Politics is a part of life. It has always been and it will forever continue to be.  Grow up dude. Grow a set of ballz. 

I too...will make sure injustices like this wont go unanswered...and ultimately its Drew that decides whose voice gets heard...

What kind of injustices?

Hearing your whiny shyte time and time again when something is against YOUR own system...

The downvotes.

Your social justice warrior rants of how one should express one's feelings especially when they dont match your own...

 Have you forgotten how YOU casually made fun of me with Trudeau a while back? 

 

Now Im sure I will get some sort of warning or even a temp ban for politics or trolling or talking about a poster rather than automobiles, but JESUS CHRIST!!!

We are all adults in here. 

We are all mostly above 35 years old. Most of us are even over 40. Closer to 50 with some of us at 50.

A little jab on the President and your mind is phoquing blown???!!!

Funny, you mentioned Trudeau to me on a slightly less than flattering way making fun of me yet pushing YOUR political view on me and I didnt lose my mind...

OK Drew....Im ready to not post for a week.

Do your worst on me. 

 

 

Edited January 4, 2018 by oldshurst442

[Drew Dowdell]

I actually find it amusing more than anything.... But a snowflake really needs to take his meds if he gets triggered by that 

[Intrepidation]

[ocnblu]

Hilarious I'm the one in the wrong.  Drew needs to take down the outdated "rules" he has stuck up there if they mean nothing.  I don't post political things in here.

Plus I am so tired of scrolling for DAYS past a 15,000 word oldshurst442 post.  It is like he's always having heavy flow days.  OMG.  And he/she's not "losing his mind"?  LOL.  It's so easy.

Really Moltar?  REALLY? 

[oldshurst442]

1 hour ago, ocnblu said:

Hilarious I'm the one in the wrong.  Drew needs to take down the outdated "rules" he has stuck up there if they mean nothing.  I don't post political things in here.

Plus I am so tired of scrolling for DAYS past a 15,000 word oldshurst442 post.  It is like he's always having heavy flow days.  OMG.  And he/she's not "losing his mind"?  LOL.  It's so easy.

Really Moltar?  REALLY? 

 

 

Yeah...sure.

On 12/16/2017 at 6:09 PM, ocnblu said:

Spoken like a true Justin Trudeau constituent. 

 

I guess that is a #fakepost, right?  Did not happen, huh?

Or that when you do it its not meant to be taken seriously, right?

 

1 hour ago, ocnblu said:

Really Moltar?  REALLY? 

 

 

Why are YOU so upset and surprised by Moltar's down vote?

You are the only one CONSISTENTLY and CONSTANTLY down voting folk for shyte that disagrees with your socio and political bias.

YOU (and  another poster who shall remain nameless) are the ONLY ones using the laughing up-vote one sarcastically regarding posts that are  the opposite of how you view things...

 

1 hour ago, ocnblu said:

Plus I am so tired of scrolling for DAYS past a 15,000 word oldshurst442 post.  It is like he's always having heavy flow days.  OMG.  And he/she's not "losing his mind"? 

So...like usual...you only want everybody to follow the rules that convenience you.

Whatever happened to the one that says talk about the subject matter which is cars and not about the poster?

It seems you want to muzzle everybody's differing opinion that is from yours...

1 hour ago, ocnblu said:

It's so easy.

Nice try bud.

But it seems that you are the one that is butt hurt from all this...

And you know what? You just got yourself another 15 000 word essay from me...

 

 

Edited January 4, 2018 by oldshurst442

[balthazar]

Can I give a 'Jeer' to the whole 'upvote/downvote' universe?

Or would that be a defacto downvote?

[Robert Hall]

12 hours ago, ocnblu said:

Really Moltar?  REALLY? 

 

That's how it works..you post whiny drivel, you get a down vote..  

[A Horse With No Name]

11 hours ago, balthazar said:

Can I give a 'Jeer' to the whole 'upvote/downvote' universe?

Or would that be a defacto downvote?

But then i would not be able to upvote Pontiacs when they come up....

Worth a watch...people who are frauds are always found out.  Kudos to the guitar community for calling out a fraud.

[A Horse With No Name]

13 hours ago, ocnblu said:

Hilarious I'm the one in the wrong.  Drew needs to take down the outdated "rules" he has stuck up there if they mean nothing.  I don't post political things in here.

Plus I am so tired of scrolling for DAYS past a 15,000 word oldshurst442 post.  It is like he's always having heavy flow days.  OMG.  And he/she's not "losing his mind"?  LOL.  It's so easy.

Really Moltar?  REALLY? 

We need to re open the politics section I think. there are ways to cover this as adults.  And also good things Trump has done. Gotten rid of TPP.  He is working to protect our power grid from cyber attack.  He imports awesome neckties.  Would be open to discuss.  So nice of you also to post the selfie on the pony.  Always thought of you more as  a truck guy bill, but I guess horses go with trucks.

Kind of a nasty five O clock shadow in your selfie though.

The real Olson guitar works, not the fraud.....worth a watch also.

[FAPTurbo]

oh look 2017 ended the way it started:

https://imgur.com/oOXDJDU

[A Horse With No Name]

37 minutes ago, FAPTurbo said:

oh look 2017 ended the way it started:

https://imgur.com/oOXDJDU

Dumpster fires are at least cleaning and get rid of trash...2018 will just pile more crap on top of 2017.

[David]

Cheers for the EV movement of 2017!  

[ccap41]

14 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

You are the only one CONSISTENTLY and CONSTANTLY down voting folk for shyte that disagrees with your socio and political bias.

What's wrong with that? Isn't that kind of what it is for? 

14 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

It seems you want to muzzle everybody's differing opinion that is from yours...

I don't see him trying to muzzle everybody, just you. 

[Drew Dowdell]

The problem is when people take it so personally. 

 

Down vote me all you like... I'll still sleep just as poorly as I always do.

[ccap41]

1 minute ago, Drew Dowdell said:

The problem is when people take it so personally. 

 

Down vote me all you like... I'll still sleep just as poorly as I always do.

EGGS-ACT-LEE! 

[Drew Dowdell]

That said... I have a problem with downvoting a post like the original one here.  @bobo doesn't come around too often for reasons he put in the post, but he takes the time every year to put together one of these and he's done it for about a decade.  It's like downvoting an article.  Don't downvote something like that where someone obviously put some work into assembling... and certainly don't be inhospitable to someone who doesn't come here often.

[oldshurst442]

It would seem that it bothers me...

But I have stated the reasons why I keep on bringing that up...

My reasons have never changed. 

Its the hypocrisy of the way people use it....the down voting part.

In my view. Down voting should be only used to down vote trolling posts. 

(and since we basically dont have any blatant tolls anymore at this website...I dont want to see that red arrow anymore!)

A differing opinion should not be down voted.

If down voting, then explain yourself why. Just expect a response back. If the reasons dont make sense at all, expect a back lash. Dont whine if you cant handle the backlash afterwards...

Dont downvote and leave. 

Dont whine and cry if the other poster made you look like a fool when responding to your non-sense rebuttal especially if an opinion was down voted. 

Dont cry foul and try to muzzle the other poster hiding behind "rules".

 

We had  a pretty heated exchange regarding the small block Chevy a few days ago.

We all have an opinion. We all defend that opinion. No trolling was made that day. Well...some words were said by both camps that maybe should have been avoided...

This here, is something  quite strange.

A down vote and a rebuttal triggered me because while politics shoiuld have not been brought up from the get go...a rebuttal stating what OP's opinion was false...is...false.

Its how HE feels about the current state of affairs.

Its not false for him. 

Hell....it aint false for me either.

I did not up vote that post at all. I could have seeing fit that I agreed with the OP's opinion on the current state of affairs regarding politics.

Yet the down voter decided to make it THE point on interest whining about a political post yet he HIMSELF continued on with a political view. Instead of just IGNORING that part.

Now...we have 2 opposing views....

Mine and the down voter.

Why...in MY point of view, does HE get to whine and to stress how wrong MY point of view is (because my POV is same as OP) regarding the current state of affairs? 

He decided to make a battle cry for it.

So did I! 

And THAT is why there may be a problem the way the casual down voter is seen by me.

PS:

And then he proceeds to down vote and call me names...while he was preaching "the rules" a few posts earlier ignoring the rules he just broke and then questions why he got down voted again by another poster...

And THAT is why I may have another problem with the down votes...

Now...for the thousandth time...

Can I stop answering these questions on why I dump on people down voting all the time?

Its the same message and answer I give. Every. Single. Time. 

 

Edited January 4, 2018 by oldshurst442

[A Horse With No Name]

51 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

The problem is when people take it so personally. 

 

Down vote me all you like... I'll still sleep just as poorly as I always do.

Pretty bad when the guy who drives the Beetle is the one man enough not to be offended...down vote me also...

[ccap41]

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

That said... I have a problem with downvoting a post like the original one here.  @bobo doesn't come around too often for reasons he put in the post, but he takes the time every year to put together one of these and he's done it for about a decade.  It's like downvoting an article.  Don't downvote something like that where someone obviously put some work into assembling... and certainly don't be inhospitable to someone who doesn't come here often.

I completely agree with the last line but the rest doesn't make any sense to me. Just because somebody wrote a lot doesn't mean they're right or should be agreed with. Look at Old's posts. He spends 30 minutes per post, easily, but that doesn't mean he "deserves" better treatment.

1 hour ago, oldshurst442 said:

Dont whine if you cant handle the backlash afterwards...

That's like you whining when getting a "down-vote". 

[Drew Dowdell]

7 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I completely agree with the last line but the rest doesn't make any sense to me. Just because somebody wrote a lot doesn't mean they're right or should be agreed with. Look at Old's posts. He spends 30 minutes per post, easily, but that doesn't mean he "deserves" better treatment.

That's like you whining when getting a "down-vote". 

I mean more like an article.  There have been articles downvoted before.  Bobo's post is essentially an annual article that he puts together for us every year.  Old's stuff usually just confuses me so I'm not ever sure whether to upvote, downvote, or do confused eyes.

[oldshurst442]

12 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I completely agree with the last line but the rest doesn't make any sense to me. Just because somebody wrote a lot doesn't mean they're right or should be agreed with. Look at Old's posts. He spends 30 minutes per post, easily, but that doesn't mean he "deserves" better treatment.

That's like you whining when getting a "down-vote". 

I dont whine...I ask for an explanation.

I get it. I do rebuttal and most of time...the dude that questioned me gets butthurt...

Take the SBC argument...

I said what I said...ya'll said what ya'll said what you prefer...

I accepted it. Ya'll...more like you, told me I  got a hard-on for the SBC and Im butthurt for it...

Nope...YOU admitted you dont get a hard on for the SBC and just prefer the M-B engine over it...

I gave you examples of why I feel the way I feel about it...you...told me its YOUR opinion for prefering the M-B engine over the SBC...

I had to defend an opinion...which I did...

YOU just stated your opinion that you prefer one engine over the other and I was supposed to accept it.

I was told by YOU that the examples I gave were just opinion...but were factual...

Yet...YOU did not seem to want to accept MY opinion...

 

And...here we have another 15 000 post rant that YOU dont want...

Its easy...dont read my posts.

Its easy. Dont question my opinions if you dont want my 15 000 word responses. 

Dont whine because I give you a rebuttal.

My thoughts are ALWAYS thought out. Logical. I have pretty stable thought processes.

I always admit when Im wrong. I learn from others. I change my views when necessary.

After all. This is why I join a forum. 

To learn. To teach...maybe. 

If you just want to troll....accept to get 15 000 word responses telling you about how you troll...

 

PS:

I DONT ASK FOR BETTER TREATMENT!!!

Like I said.. troll me...accept to get 15 000 post words.

PSS:

I get it...many of you get confused by what I have to say. 

OK...lesson learned.

 

 

Edited January 4, 2018 by oldshurst442

[ccap41]

15 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I mean more like an article.  There have been articles downvoted before.  Bobo's post is essentially an annual article that he puts together for us every year.  Old's stuff usually just confuses me so I'm not ever sure whether to upvote, downvote, or do confused eyes.

I gotcha I gotcha 

[A Horse With No Name]

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I mean more like an article.  There have been articles downvoted before.  Bobo's post is essentially an annual article that he puts together for us every year.  Old's stuff usually just confuses me so I'm not ever sure whether to upvote, downvote, or do confused eyes.

His stuff makes me wish I smoked weed because I am sure it would be fascinating if I was stoned.

Getting back to cars, my oldest son got into autocross in 2017 and plans on running a good bit this next year.  My 21 year old daughter Joanna spent some time at the track in 2017 and plans to run her Subaru as well, and is thinking about buying a BRZ to run maybe next July or so.

Brian who shares my work shop with me just bought an Integra at the end of 2017 and is planning on modifying it for autocross use.  My 16 year old daughter Christina also wants to get out on track.

It is wonderful living in a family of enthusiasts.

 

[oldshurst442]

No weed. 

Dont do weed. Weed is  bad.

Although Trudeau wants to legalize it. And he will. And it will be legal by the summer.

Wine. Drink wine. Socrates drank wine when he philosophized. My rants require wine. 

Because with wine, people can easily (pun alert) WHINE  about the 15 000 word posts easier, and with wine they could tell me they love me when drunk. With weed, the brain just becomes, mush...and the only thing you will be telling me is that you got the munchies and I aint about to cook you up some poutine just to get some some love. With the wine, your whining (pun) turns to love almost immediately! 

Edited January 4, 2018 by oldshurst442

[oldshurst442]

Yes. Back to cars.

My son always loved little Hot Wheel cars. 

Now he is obsessed with them. Yes. Yes. He loves his computer related toys like his remote controlled robot Olie or his video games and stuff like that. He does enjoy old skool little toy cars. 

He also loves playing sports. 

Back to cars. The basement play area this past year has become a Hot Wheels racing track/city room. Its not big enough to make Youtube video salary with it, but its fun for me and him alike non the less. Waiting for the summer so we could play baseball...

Next Hot Wheels toy I buy for him. 

The wireless  'smart' racetrack thingy. 

[A Horse With No Name]

When he gets a few years older bring him to our local autocross meets and he can drive or ride along.  He will be even more hooked.

And actually both Carl Sagan and George Washington smoked weed regularly.  I have never touched the stuff actually. Caffeine is enough of a vice.

[oldshurst442]

15 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

When he gets a few years older bring him to our local autocross meets and he can drive or ride along.  He will be even more hooked.

And actually both Carl Sagan and George Washington smoked weed regularly.  I have never touched the stuff actually. Caffeine is enough of a vice.

I used to have many vices.

The drink. The sex. The adrenaline junkie stuff such as driving fast on EMPTY city streets late at night or going fast, like stupidly scary fast down ski hills(night skiing and on the side trails of the ski hill where many trees reside. And yes Ive hit one and screwed up my knee and eventually requiring reconstructive knee surgery decades later a decade ago. HUH? ) 

Now...I got one vice. My family. (wife and kids) They are my drug now as I cant live without them. 

 

Weed...

I dont care who smokes it or who doesnt. 

I dont want my kids touching the stuff just like I dont want my kids over doing the drink and the speed when they are ready to drive. 

Hard drugs. 

Well...I speak against the drugs, the soft ones as well as the hard ones, and hopefully they make the right decisions when its time to make those decisions.

I do keep on pounding the message that drugs=bad. And I just hope the parenting that my wife and I do resonates with them. And they do know that so they choose to do the vicey stuff, that we are not going to be mad. They could count on us to help them get through the bad times. But...bad times will come if they do the vicey things...

 

Edited January 4, 2018 by oldshurst442

[Drew Dowdell]

My 4 year old nephew is definitely going to be a Jeep Wrangler guy.

[ocnblu]

Well ya know, as I said in my first comment, it pains me to look forward to bobo's annual wrap-up, only to see his opening paragraph, which is opinion, not fact, plus, and I will say it again, it goes against site rules which have been posted for years here.

 

There are reasons why forums such as this normally shy away from politics and religion, and it is a good idea for Drew to post those rules... "let's keep C&G free from politics".

But there has to be a consistent and evenhanded upholding of the stated rules or else chaos breaks out and trust erodes.

Drew could have edited bobo's paragraph out.  The rest of the post could have stood firmly on its own as a happy C&G tradition shared by all members.  But he chose to let it stand instead of applying HIS OWN forum rules in a considered manner.  For those that don't understand my motivation or question my adherence and contributions to this forum over the last 14 years, even through the egregious error of reporting that the Saturn Outlook had been cancelled at the eleventh hour, please bite it.  Thanks!

[oldshurst442]

24 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

Well ya know, as I said in my first comment, it pains me to look forward to bobo's annual wrap-up, only to see his opening paragraph, which is opinion, not fact, plus, and I will say it again, it goes against site rules which have been posted for years here.

 

There are reasons why forums such as this normally shy away from politics and religion, and it is a good idea for Drew to post those rules... "let's keep C&G free from politics".

But there has to be a consistent and evenhanded upholding of the stated rules or else chaos breaks out and trust erodes.

Drew could have edited bobo's paragraph out.  The rest of the post could have stood firmly on its own as a happy C&G tradition shared by all members.  But he chose to let it stand instead of applying HIS OWN forum rules in a considered manner.  For those that don't understand my motivation or question my adherence and contributions to this forum over the last 14 years, even through the egregious error of reporting that the Saturn Outlook had been cancelled at the eleventh hour, please bite it.  Thanks!

And JUST because YOU have been posting here for 14 years....and I ONLY a couple....

It does NOT mean that MY contributions to this site should be overlooked or ignored or made fun of...

22 hours ago, ocnblu said:

 

Plus I am so tired of scrolling for DAYS past a 15,000 word oldshurst442 post.  It is like he's always having heavy flow days.  OMG.  And he/she's not "losing his mind"?  LOL.  It's so easy.

 

 

 

6 hours ago, ccap41 said:

 

I don't see him trying to muzzle everybody, just you. 

 

YOUR battle seems to be quite the veteran elitism where you think you are the only one that cares or follows the rules...

Yet...ignore the ...not attacking other posters rule...and laughing when another poster trolls another...(CCAP defending you at the expense of me!!!) 

And you know what...the site's owner also made fun of me...

Said my posts confuse the shyte out of him that he doesnt know whether to up vote or down vote me...

 

So...you had 14 years on this site.

Ive had 2.

And?

You dont troll?

You dont talk politics?

I already showed you where you poke fun at political leaders...that might not line with your...um...conservative lifestyle...

You dont get to say you are holier than thou, dude. 

I told you...freedom of expression is stronger than you and I.

You want Drew to start erasing posts?

How about ignoring the little things and enjoy the ride.

How about NOT making a big stink about nothing so 15 000 word rants are NOT a common thing.

Because you also have a problem with 15 000 word rants.

You got a problem with politics.

You got a problem with broken rules that even yourself does not follow.

You got a problem with EVs.

I mean...are we here posting JUST to PLEASE YOU?

Just post things that your eyes and ears could agree with?

You told me to bite you?

I am telling you to phoque off!

Edited January 5, 2018 by oldshurst442

[A Horse With No Name]

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

My 4 year old nephew is definitely going to be a Jeep Wrangler guy.

That would just be awesome.   I love the Wrangler. 

Let me also add that at least in Ohio the Jeep conmunity is fantastic. He will really enjoy that aspect of things.

[Drew Dowdell]

I generally try to not to edit people's posts. I let people's dumb posts stand for all to see.

[oldshurst442]

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

My 4 year old nephew is definitely going to be a Jeep Wrangler guy.

 

7 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

That would just be awesome.   I love the Wrangler. 

EDIT...and a as a pre PS: 

So as to not derail the tread further than what it already has...

I assume you dont edit my stupidities too...as I dont expect you to either. As I could easily own up to my fodder....

 

 

My kids dont really get that whole off roading scene.  They bike ride. On a bicycle path. Never leaving the nice paved path.

They skate. In an indoor rink. And an outdoor one. They dont ski to see a beaten path. 

So yeah. They dont like a SUV.

Because Im soooo against SUVs as family haulers, they too dont get why a family of 4 need a SUV of gigantic proportions such as a GM Lambda platform SUV.

So yeah...not as much of a smooth transition from the bickering, but I am trying.

 

 

Edited January 5, 2018 by oldshurst442

[David]

1 hour ago, ocnblu said:

Well ya know, as I said in my first comment, it pains me to look forward to bobo's annual wrap-up, only to see his opening paragraph, which is opinion, not fact, plus, and I will say it again, it goes against site rules which have been posted for years here.

 

There are reasons why forums such as this normally shy away from politics and religion, and it is a good idea for Drew to post those rules... "let's keep C&G free from politics".

But there has to be a consistent and evenhanded upholding of the stated rules or else chaos breaks out and trust erodes.

Drew could have edited bobo's paragraph out.  The rest of the post could have stood firmly on its own as a happy C&G tradition shared by all members.  But he chose to let it stand instead of applying HIS OWN forum rules in a considered manner.  For those that don't understand my motivation or question my adherence and contributions to this forum over the last 14 years, even through the egregious error of reporting that the Saturn Outlook had been cancelled at the eleventh hour, please bite it.  Thanks!

My Friend do you never get tired of shouting with all that bold fonts? 

4 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

His stuff makes me wish I smoked weed because I am sure it would be fascinating if I was stoned.

Getting back to cars, my oldest son got into autocross in 2017 and plans on running a good bit this next year.  My 21 year old daughter Joanna spent some time at the track in 2017 and plans to run her Subaru as well, and is thinking about buying a BRZ to run maybe next July or so.

Brian who shares my work shop with me just bought an Integra at the end of 2017 and is planning on modifying it for autocross use.  My 16 year old daughter Christina also wants to get out on track.

It is wonderful living in a family of enthusiasts.

 

Imagine EV Autocross!  

[ocnblu]

Shouters have sticky capslock buttons. 

 

Olds if I weren't deeply in lurve with you I would ignore you.  However I do admit I haven't read every word of War & Peace.

8 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

The problem is when people take it so personally. 

 

Down vote me all you like... I'll still sleep just as poorly as I always do.

Same

[oldshurst442]

3 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

Shouters have sticky capslock buttons.

You have your posting style. I have mine. YOU always seem to whine about mine. I accept your without saying a negative word about it.

 

4 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

Olds if I weren't deeply in lurve with you I would ignore you.  However I do admit I haven't read every word of War & Peace.

And yet...here we go again...

You whining about the 15 000 word posts. Albeit in a very very clever way. 

I applaud you for that! Nicely done!

And for a rare moment...I dont have a comeback for that. 

Really nicely done...Im speechless.

Im just bummed out that I cant get 15 000 words out of this...maybe next time. 

Maybe you read it, maybe you wont.  But I guarantee you that I will challenge your point of view whether you like it or not...

 

[A Horse With No Name]

They are not fifteen thoudand words they just feel like it.

Although I do enjoy a good bit you write.

[Drew Dowdell]

10 hours ago, ocnblu said:

Shouters have sticky capslock buttons. 

Well, now that we all know what you're doing in front of the computer all the time....

Maybe we can all chip in and buy you one of these.....

http://amzn.to/2F10WxW