FUTURE_OF_GM

Thank the media/insiders for this...

47 posts in this topic

Focus Fanatics

This is a guy shopping Honda for a new car.

I'm not sure if you have to be registered to read this or not, but here it is:

For a bit of fun today I decided to go have a look at a number of cars and get a few test drives in. I drive the Caliber, which sits a lot higher than it looks, the Toyota Yaris, and the Honda Civic. Now I have never been a fan of Honda cars, but the new Civic really caught my eye.

Anyway the base model is 15k, around the same price as teh Yaris, and more expensive than the Caliber. But what is amazing is how much is missing from the car. The windows are auto, but the mirrors and locks are not, in fact you have to roll down the window and play with the mirrors to adjust them. Oh and it does not include AC or stereo. But it does have spots all over the car that hide speakers that are probably not there. I was told the reason for no stereo is because people like to install their own custom stereos.

You know if I am paying 15k for a car I should expect a stereo and AC, I mean the base Focus has these things. Granted you do get 8 airbags in the car. But you get a super bare bones car. Oh, and if you want AC in the Civic its a 2k addon, which happens to be the next model up, and you get the stereo. I can't beleive people accept this kind of crap for the name Honda.

So, we have to be bombarded all the damn time with articles asking WHY an Escalade doesn't have a button for this and an automatic that. AND even articles QUESTIONING THE CADILLAC REVIVAL BASED ON THIS STUPIDITY and then get to listen to them whining about a Fusion not having navigation...etc...etc...etc...

Yet, a car that NOT only doesn't come standard with A/C but also is ABSENT a radio gets their coveted NORTH AMERICAN CAR OF THE YEAR AWARD?!?!?!?!

Last time I checked... BOTH of those were pretty RELEVANT standard equipment even for the Civic class and ESPECIALLY for the "premium image" (READ: Bull$h! groupthink) that the Civic is supposed to offer.

Talk about a twofaced bunch.

In Social Psychology we are taught that a certain stereotype exists and that the world is effected by it in every way. This stereotype is called "What is beautiful is good" and has a very strong basis in ALL of the Disney movies and fairytales of yore. So, that said, I guess 'we' here at C&G can coin the phrase "What is Asian is good" and then 'we' can study it and talk about how deeply it is seated in the FAIRYTALE and FICTION that is published in automotive press everyday.

The bias has reached the point of being a joke IMO.... It's sad that more people can't see it and that MOST of the biased people are willing to sellout this badly.

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Wow, thats....wow. If the dude is telling the truth then thats major BS to ask someone to pay 15k for a car w/ no stereo or a/c. Something i can get in Cobalt for less than that.

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big freakin deal. A lot of those things don't come standard on many cars, including the Cobalt, Corolla or 3.

No $h! he got a lot in his Focus, its an older design that needs extra standard features to attract buyers over newer, "better" cars

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The AC I dont have a huge issue with, a lot of base level cars dont have it standard, but not having a radio standard (which I had to look up, but yes, its true) doesn't sit well with me. At least throw an AM/FM cheapie in there.

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This is a prime illustration of the 'impending doom' of the auto industry.

Every car, no matter the price, is "supposed" to have a full-range of features standard, including but in no way limited to such incidentals as power mirrors. It's ridiculous!

>>"you have to roll down the window and play with the mirrors to adjust them."<<

Big GD freaking deal! Stop F-ing whining about it, do it, and again: shut up!

"So many" want to be "in control" of their car (read: manual trans) but they can barely be expected to close their own doors or adjust their own steering wheel. The irony fairly drips...

This reminds me of the thread about the "death" of the V-8; no one seems to realize the differences between tiers is steadily shrinking... therefore a theory can be made for the future 'novelty' status of the luxury car, because the defining features are increasingly becoming intangibles and invisibles.

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Gawd knows I would be loathe to defend the media, but I doubt any of them would be caught dead in a base Civic anyway.

Which brings me to my biggest beef about the automotive media: they despise anything that they themselves wouldn't drive. So, yeah - they do bitch about lack of DVD navigation (who the HELL needs that anyway?) in a $15k car, and how many speeds an automatic has because THEY have decided that is important.

BTW, the Civic doesn't even have a split folding rear seat! As I have said many times, by focusing on what the media deems important, the Asian imports have succeeded.

Automatic headlights, delayed locks, retained accessory power, power trunk on keyless remote (Corolla?) and a host of other features that are important to the consumer in every day driving, get nary a nod from the media nazis, but they gush and swoon over 0-60 times on a $14k car!

That is the trouble with a lot of GM's cars: when people live with them for a week or so, they discover that "hey, this vehicle is pretty good and has a lot of features that are nice - WTF is CR talking about?"

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I know my local dealers don't have any real base model Civic's, they all have options of some sort. It's probably just a marketting ploy so they can say they have a lower MSRP. I doubt very many dealers actually buy 100% base model Civic's to put on their lot. People might order them that way, with the intention of driving to the nearest cartoys to have a killer Alpine sound system installed or something like that.

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I can get a navigation system for $2K. Why should Honda expect me to pay that much for a $500ish a/c system?

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GM's cars: when people live with them for a week or so, they discover that "hey, this vehicle is pretty good and has a lot of features that are nice - WTF is CR talking about?"

Now if that were really true, don't you think more people would drive them? :scratchchin:

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Who the hell would buy a radio-less vehicle? Seriously?!

Especially for fifteen grand. Before I bought the Solara, I looked at some previous-gen Civics, and for $13k and change you could get a value edition with a cd player and AC. I wonder if it even comes prepped for a stereo or if the buyer has to buy the radio and do all of the wiring, etc.

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Siegen, that's the point: the biased media are telling people NOT to bother with GM because [insert pet peeve here]. EVERY time I drive a client in a Cobalt and a Corolla back to back they are STUNNED. They literally are speechless. They can't understand why the Corolla would get such rave reviews.

The Civic is rapidly pricing itself out of the market. I've had customers tell me that they've left the Honda dealer because all they do is bash GM and get nasty when the client wants to shop other makes.

I think HOnda and Toyota are where GM was 20 years ago.

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The bias has reached the point of being a joke IMO.... It's sad that more people can't see it and that MOST of the biased people are willing to sellout this badly.

I think your bias has reached to the point of being a joke, it's like CP said a "broken record". Maybe not everyone shopping for a car want A/C, you heard that people with arthraitus cannot sit inside A/C places. Not everyone likes listening to the radio when they drive. You mention everything that is beautiful is good. I dunno, because you diss out imports and praise domestics purely based on looks.

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Now if that were really true, don't you think more people would drive them?  :scratchchin:

Saw a recent add on TV here in Honda land (California) and Cevrolet outsells Honda here. NOt GM, but Chevrolet alone. My daughter's friend (16) just got a Honda Accord from her father. She is glad to have anything but told us that defroster doesn't work , the turn signals don't work, and a bunch of other things. He is an electrician! I understand why people buy Toyotas (not me personaly) but why Honda?

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I kinda wish they'd give a no stereo option and cut some money off the price. i usually install my own anyway

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I think your bias has reached to the point of being a joke, it's like CP said a "broken record".  Maybe not everyone shopping for a car want A/C, you heard that people with arthraitus cannot sit inside A/C places.  Not everyone likes listening to the radio when they drive.  You mention everything that is beautiful is good.  I dunno, because you diss out imports and praise domestics purely based on looks.

Your missing the point... it still costs $15k!! Sure there are people that may not want A/C or radio, but for $15k is better have em both. If the car was $10k-$12k this post wouldn't even be here. The fact that is lacks both is not the argument, the fact that is lacks both and still costs $15k is.

Edited by BuddyP

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I think your bias has reached to the point of being a joke, it's like CP said a "broken record".  Maybe not everyone shopping for a car want A/C, you heard that people with arthraitus cannot sit inside A/C places.  Not everyone likes listening to the radio when they drive.  You mention everything that is beautiful is good.  I dunno, because you diss out imports and praise domestics purely based on looks.

That's not the point. The point is that they're charging that much for what others will charge for grands less, only because of the name.

And that's what turned me off from Japanese cars in NA. I still buy Japanese in Hong Kong, because they represent the value.

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My daughter's friend (16) just got a Honda Accord from her father.  She is glad to have anything but told us that defroster doesn't work , the turn signals don't work, and a bunch of other things.  He is an electrician!  I understand why people buy Toyotas (not me personaly) but why Honda?

Because your daughter's friend bought a Honda Accord (used?) and some things don't work on it, you don't understand why people buy Honda's? I don't understand why my 2004 GMC Sierra has had to make 2 warranty trips to the dealer already with only 20k on the clock!! By your logic, I don't see why anybody buys GM trucks, yet they are best selling.

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