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Drew Dowdell

Mercedez Benz News Mercedes-AMG One Delayed

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Mercedes-AMG's ambitious plan to put Formula One technology onto the streets has reportedly hit some major snags and the project is delayed by at least two years.  The biggest issue appears to be the engine.  The rear engined carbon fiber racer is a  1.6 liter gasoline-hybrid with over 1,000 horsepower.  Four electric motors work in tandem, one for the turbocharger, one on the engine connected to the crankshaft, and two which drive the front wheels. This brings a maximum speed of over 350 km/h (217 mph).

Even with all of that hybrid technology, a major stumbling block surrounds how to take an F1 engine and make it meet emissions standards. Several exhaust gas cleaning systems must be added to the car in order to drive it legally. There is also the issue of requiring to warm the entire engine oil circuit before even starting the engine.  Both of these must be solved before the AMG One will be ready for production.

 


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Posted (edited)

Reminds me of the Tesla having to warm its batteries for AN HOUR to achieve max accel in ludicrious mode. 

The case is certainly easily made that EVs are benchmarking ICs but are still falling well short.

Edited by balthazar
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I suspect that the engine involved will fail because F1 is not designed to actually meet emissions standards at all.  Back to the drawing board.

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It is a 1.6 liter engine, they should be able to get it to meet emissions.  Obviously they have to add on to what the F1 car has in exhaust cleaning, but that should be doable.  Maybe an electric heater on the oil reservoir.  They’ll figure it out.  And no one will pull their money because this is a unique product.  Important thing is to get it road legal and not just a track tow or something that sits in a museum.

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2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

It is a 1.6 liter engine, they should be able to get it to meet emissions.  Obviously they have to add on to what the F1 car has in exhaust cleaning, but that should be doable.  Maybe an electric heater on the oil reservoir.  They’ll figure it out.  And no one will pull their money because this is a unique product.  Important thing is to get it road legal and not just a track tow or something that sits in a museum.

You're an armchair engineer now?

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3 hours ago, smk4565 said:

It is a 1.6 liter engine, they should be able to get it to meet emissions.  Obviously they have to add on to what the F1 car has in exhaust cleaning, but that should be doable.  Maybe an electric heater on the oil reservoir.  They’ll figure it out.  And no one will pull their money because this is a unique product.  Important thing is to get it road legal and not just a track tow or something that sits in a museum.

I would recommend betting on it being canceled than continuing this NON-PROFITABLE project as the fines are just starting and while Europe may settle for $1 billion Euros, the US is going to hit hard like VW and it will be huge. 

Common sense says a company will cut its losses when it comes to surviving. I bet this gets canceled after all, better to invest it in an EV, Hybrid or current auto's that make money than a Halo auto that cannot even start yet without heating oil.

DEAD ON ARRIVAL!

There is a reason F1 is a dying sport and Formula E has taken over.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, smk4565 said:

It is a 1.6 liter engine, they should be able to get it to meet emissions.  Obviously they have to add on to what the F1 car has in exhaust cleaning, but that should be doable.  Maybe an electric heater on the oil reservoir.  They’ll figure it out.  And no one will pull their money because this is a unique product.  Important thing is to get it road legal and not just a track tow or something that sits in a museum.

It's way more than just displacement and exhaust. F1 cars idle at like 5000rpm. 

I know you've read or watched videos about the difficulties with using an F1 engine in a street car... 

17 minutes ago, dfelt said:

There is a reason F1 is a dying sport and Formula E has taken over.

Neither supply good  quality racing/competition and neither will last unless they do. Formula E does a much better job as of now but they also started all using the same exact equipment so it should be more competitive. I know they plan to allow each individual company build their own cars and I'm not sure if they are there yet. I actually think once they do that the quality of competition will drop as it will likely turn into the teams who spend the most VS the field, like F1. 

Edited by ccap41
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1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

You're an armchair engineer now?

No but they will figure it out. 

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9 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

No but they will figure it out. 

Your ignoring the facts that MB is now facing multiple billions of dollars of fines due to their own FRAUD on Diesel. As such, I doubt this project will survive as they cut costs to stay profitable and alive.

VW currently is at $33.6 Billion in fines and still not done. https://www.wardsauto.com/industry/volkswagen-s-dieselgate-costs-top-336-billion

That kind of cash loss will HURT MB and make them look at projects like the AMG One and Kill it. Right now the Delay is just that, time to assess if they can really afford to spend money on it or just kill it and take their lumps and move forward.

2 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Yeah, when it's a former F1 engine..

That's already been done..

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a23706900/lanzante-formula-1-engines-porsche-930/

 

Very cool read, thanks for posting. Course unlike MB, this is a specialty build auto on a small company so they can get away with an F1 911 from the 80's unlike MB which is going to have to meet current year Spec emissions.

I honestly do not think the AMG One will make it to market as it was originally intended.

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1 hour ago, dfelt said:

Your ignoring the facts that MB is now facing multiple billions of dollars of fines due to their own FRAUD on Diesel. As such, I doubt this project will survive as they cut costs to stay profitable and alive.

VW currently is at $33.6 Billion in fines and still not done. https://www.wardsauto.com/industry/volkswagen-s-dieselgate-costs-top-336-billion

That kind of cash loss will HURT MB and make them look at projects like the AMG One and Kill it. Right now the Delay is just that, time to assess if they can really afford to spend money on it or just kill it and take their lumps and move forward.

Very cool read, thanks for posting. Course unlike MB, this is a specialty build auto on a small company so they can get away with an F1 911 from the 80's unlike MB which is going to have to meet current year Spec emissions.

I honestly do not think the AMG One will make it to market as it was originally intended.

They aren't going to kill it, this is their moon shot vehicle.  This is their chance to build a car that it might take 20 years before anyone rivals it.  They are all in at this point, and the cost of developing the powertrain which is the expensive part is done.  This is a matter of spending money to get it emissions certified.  

They can eat a billion dollar fine too.  These big corporations sit on big cash reserves, they'll probably use the loss as a tax write off and move on.  Daimler lost way more on money on Chrysler than it will on these fines and they are still here, and still #1 luxury car producer.

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

Yeah, when it's a former F1 engine..

That's already been done..

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a23706900/lanzante-formula-1-engines-porsche-930/

 

No one has done something like this, the current F1 engines are ridiculous, I've heard the power unit in an F1 car is about $5 million.  I imagine they are selling AMG One at a loss, unless the economies of scale have allowed them to turn a profit at $3 million. 

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You can buy a 1000 HP engine at Dodge and do 210+ MPH right now.

8 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Four electric motors work in tandem, one for the turbocharger, one on the engine connected to the crankshaft, and two which drive the front wheels.

 

Wait: its front wheel drive??

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10 minutes ago, balthazar said:

You can buy a 1000 HP engine at Dodge and do 210+ MPH right now.

Wait: its front wheel drive??

All wheel drive, but the fronts are driven solely by electric. It's sort of a Lexus RX hybrid flipped in reverse.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, balthazar said:

You can buy a 1000 HP engine at Dodge and do 210+ MPH right now.

Wait: its front wheel drive??

Well that Dodge can't do corners.  AMG One's track performance is going to be legendary.   Targeting Nurburgring in the 5's.  

 

You'd also think that being a hybrid and being able to run on full EV that it should meet emissions.  Because in theory the gas engine could only run half the time. 

Edited by smk4565
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3 hours ago, smk4565 said:

No but they will figure it out. 

Figure it out? Really? Billions in fines for lying about diesels, model cute coming, billions lost in the past year, and you think they’ll just “figure it out”? 

 

Man you take blind fanboyism to the next level. 

24 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Well that Dodge can't do corners.  AMG One's track performance is going to be legendary.   Targeting Nurburgring in the 5's.  

 

You'd also think that being a hybrid and being able to run on full EV that it should meet emissions.  Because in theory the gas engine could only run half the time. 

In fairness the MB One can’t do corners right now either, at least not legally on the street unlike that Dodge you want to criticize. 

3 hours ago, ccap41 said:

Yeah, when it's a former F1 engine..

That's already been done..

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a23706900/lanzante-formula-1-engines-porsche-930/

 

Don’t you get it ccap? If Mercedes can’t do it then no one can! All hail the mighty TriStar hood ornament!

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Well that Dodge can't do corners.  AMG One's track performance is going to be legendary.   Targeting Nurburgring in the 5's.  

 

If it ever sees a track...it will be just another garage queen hyper car that catches fire and means nothing.  Just another pointless exercise soon to be forgotten when the next faster thing appears.   

Edited by Robert Hall
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30 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

You'd also think that being a hybrid and being able to run on full EV that it should meet emissions.  Because in theory the gas engine could only run half the time. 

The EV-only range being quoted is a mere 25 miles. That's pretty pathetic.

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58 minutes ago, balthazar said:

The EV-only range being quoted is a mere 25 miles. That's pretty pathetic.

25 more miles than the Bugatti Chiron, Lamborghini Aventator and Ferrari LaFerrari.  25 more than a Formula 1 car too.

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1 minute ago, smk4565 said:

25 more miles than the Bugatti Chiron, Lamborghini Aventator and Ferrari LaFerrari.  25 more than a Formula 1 car too.

Which doesn't matter...no one buying a hypercar cares about the EV gimmick. 

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1 hour ago, surreal1272 said:

Figure it out? Really? Billions in fines for lying about diesels, model cute coming, billions lost in the past year, and you think they’ll just “figure it out”? 

 

Tobias Moers wants it built, they will get it done.  The hard part is done.  The car works, Mercedes is well on their way to a 6th consecutive F1 championship with this power unit.  It just doesn't pass an emissions test.

5 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Which doesn't matter...no one buying a hypercar cares about the EV gimmick. 

It doesn't really need any EV range, but nice that it is there.  The F1 car is a hybrid anyway, so why not throw in 2 extra motors and an extra battery.

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If it's a million dollars or whatever and they're going to bother putting electric motors in it, shouldn't it be the first to go 500 miles on battery power, instead of less than every other car already in production?

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I just read a news story from May of 2019 that Tobias Moers said they were close to getting this car to pass the WLTP emissions.  And the problem really is in getting it to pass AND making 1,000 hp.  If they wanted to sacrifice power they could probably get this thing to pass the new stricter emissions.

Also keep in mind also that a C7 Corvette fails the new World Light Vehicle Test Procedure emission standards the AMG One is trying to hit.   Where is the outcry of the Corvette not being able to hit the standard when it has a basic engine?

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

 

Also keep in mind also that a C7 Corvette fails the new World Light Vehicle Test Procedure emission standards the AMG One is trying to hit.   Where is the outcry of the Corvette not being able to hit the standard when it has a basic engine?

Considering the C7 is out of production, it’s a moot point. 

Edited by Robert Hall
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

 

It doesn't really need any EV range, but nice that it is there.  The F1 car is a hybrid anyway, so why not throw in 2 extra motors and an extra battery.

It would be more compelling if it were a pure EV  than a passé hybrid....

..and that it makes 1000hp makes it an also-ran, the Chiron already makes 1500hp, without the hybrid gimmick.  

The AMG One is just a lot of hype that means nothing. AMG Zero would be a better name.  

Edited by Robert Hall
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