Alfa Romeo Investment Being Scaled Back :Comments

[Drew Dowdell]

Alfa Romeo still has some crossover rollouts coming, however a recent peak at the quarterly earning statement gave a clue as to what else is happening at the brand, and the truth is, it isn't much. During the earnings call this week, CEO Mike Manley said that Alfa's "future product lineup has been significantly scaled back with a corresponding reduction in capital spend." 

Alfa currently has two products on the market in North America, the Giulia sedan and Stelvio crossover.  Those will both be getting a refresh for the 2021 model year.  That same year, a new C-segment crossover will make an appearance. This model, previewed by the Tonale concept car, will ride on the same platform as the Fiat 500x and Jeep Renegade. It should eventually be offered as a plug-in hybrid as well.  After that, a B-segment crossover should appear as well. 

Once the crossovers are on the road though, there isn't much left.  The expected return of the GTV and 8C Competizione don't appear anywhere in the plans. 

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[David]

I would not be surprised with the merger if this brand name dies again in the next 10 years. It should have never been brought back. Just left in the history books. Current product is so unreliable.

Italians need to stick to boats and cloths, auto's is not their strength.

[balthazar]

Anybody still think the future default is to put alfa platforms under Dodge sheet metal?

[Drew Dowdell]

1 minute ago, balthazar said:

Anybody still think the future default is to put alfa platforms under Dodge sheet metal?

They spend a billion on that platform, they're not going to just throw it away when Georgio, and the LX, and the Maseratis are the only RWD car platforms in all of PSA and FCA combined. 

I think they'll spread Georgio around as much as they can to recup their costs on it. 

[oldshurst442]

2 hours ago, balthazar said:

Anybody still think the future default is to put alfa platforms under Dodge sheet metal?

I honestly think it could be a great thing.

Depending on a couple of things though.If the Giorgio platform could be scaled up to Dodge Charger/Challenger midsize(fullsize?) levels because as is, its a compact.  At best, its a tweener compact but not as big as a midsize and that is no bueno for Challenger and Charger (and 300) 

The Maserati Quattroporte and GrandTurismo could easily be platform mates with Dodge Challenger/Charger and Chrysler 300 and the key to that is if the  Giorgio platform  could be scaled up in size.

The Giorgio platform has got some  pretty nice performance oriented bones. I imagine Auburn Hills engineers doing wonders for a Challenger with this platform.  As of now, like now now...this engineers are up to the task to making the Challenger a track oriented car to compete with the Mustang GT350 and Camaro 1LE. Challenger ACR is the next Challenger to be unveiled and that is with the porky platform its currently on.  

2 things Im cringing at is:

1. sedans are not exactly the "in" transportation 

2. I do not know if Giorgio is robust enough for Challenger/Charger duties.  I mean, people that own the V8 versions of those cars, beat the crap outta them. I mean...American Muscle and all...its what you do with American Muscle, yo. 

 

[USA-1]

I do like the look of these Alfa Giulia's front end, the triangle grille makes it look like it should have a rotary in it. Obviously we all know it doesn't, but a unique look none-the-less. Too bad they're so unreliable.

10 hours ago, dfelt said:

I would not be surprised with the merger if this brand name dies again in the next 10 years. It should have never been brought back. Just left in the history books. Current product is so unreliable.

Italians need to stick to boats and cloths, auto's is not their strength.

What about Ferrari? I think they're mostly pretty good. Lambo's are kind of fireballs, but the Prancing Horse is pretty sweet. 

Edited November 2, 2019 by USA-1

[ocnblu]

I hope this means the American brands will receive funding assistance.

[David]

18 hours ago, USA-1 said:

I do like the look of these Alfa Giulia's front end, the triangle grille makes it look like it should have a rotary in it. Obviously we all know it doesn't, but a unique look none-the-less. Too bad they're so unreliable.

What about Ferrari? I think they're mostly pretty good. Lambo's are kind of fireballs, but the Prancing Horse is pretty sweet. 

Ferrari is better than it was, but when you have to give a 7yr bumper to bumper warranty, I would question the reliability and it looks like edmonds, KBB and others also question the long term reliability of the auto's and maintenance costs. Not an auto for those with tight pocket books for sure to buy used.

[USA-1]

1 hour ago, dfelt said:

Ferrari is better than it was, but when you have to give a 7yr bumper to bumper warranty, I would question the reliability and it looks like edmonds, KBB and others also question the long term reliability of the auto's and maintenance costs. Not an auto for those with tight pocket books for sure to buy used.

Kinda like the opposite end of the spectrum in cost with Hyundai/KIA with an obvious reason to have a 10yr. 100k B to B warranty?  

[surreal1272]

22 hours ago, USA-1 said:

Kinda like the opposite end of the spectrum in cost with Hyundai/KIA with an obvious reason to have a 10yr. 100k B to B warranty?  

Hyundai and Kia offer a 5 year 60K warranty. The 10/100K is just for the powertrain. 

[USA-1]

3 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

Hyundai and Kia offer a 5 year 60K warranty. The 10/100K is just for the powertrain. 

10-4. My point is, there's a reason they offer the 10yr/100k for even just the powertrain to move them off the lots. I know people who have purchased them and lets just say they were glad to have the 10/100, although it's not transferable to the second owners and on where it drops to 5yr/60k for all warranty work. 

[surreal1272]

14 hours ago, USA-1 said:

10-4. My point is, there's a reason they offer the 10yr/100k for even just the powertrain to move them off the lots. I know people who have purchased them and lets just say they were glad to have the 10/100, although it's not transferable to the second owners and on where it drops to 5yr/60k for all warranty work. 

Warranties like what Hyundai and Kia offer have zero bearing on whether the car is actually reliable. Example, GM offers a 5 year/60K powertrain warranty while Toyota offers a 6 year/60K warranty. Now, based on your logic, does that mean that the extra year on the Toyota makes it more unreliable than GM? The simple answer to that is “no”. 

[USA-1]

12 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Warranties like what Hyundai and Kia offer have zero bearing on whether the car is actually reliable. Example, GM offers a 5 year/60K powertrain warranty while Toyota offers a 6 year/60K warranty. Now, based on your logic, does that mean that the extra year on the Toyota makes it more unreliable than GM? The simple answer to that is “no”. 

GM stands behind their vehicles with a fully transferable warranty to every owner 5yr./60k powertrain included unlike Hyundai, even Hyundai admits the 10/100 is really what makes the metal move not their poor reliability rating.

Largest Recall in modern U.S. history "Unintended Acceleration" with 7.5M 2009 -2011 vehicles sold in the U.S. was with TOYOTA...you do the math...

[USA-1]

4 minutes ago, USA-1 said:

GM stands behind their vehicles with a fully transferable warranty to every owner 5yr./60k powertrain included unlike Hyundai, even Hyundai admits the 10/100 is really what makes the metal move not their poor reliability rating.

Largest Recall in modern U.S. history "Unintended Acceleration" with 7.5M 2009 -2011 vehicles sold in the U.S. was with TOYOTA...you do the math...

@surreal1272 Also, I proudly post what I drive, like most on here. Funny that you don't...

[surreal1272]

1 hour ago, USA-1 said:

GM stands behind their vehicles with a fully transferable warranty to every owner 5yr./60k powertrain included unlike Hyundai, even Hyundai admits the 10/100 is really what makes the metal move not their poor reliability rating.

Largest Recall in modern U.S. history "Unintended Acceleration" with 7.5M 2009 -2011 vehicles sold in the U.S. was with TOYOTA...you do the math...

I'll see your one Toyota example and raise you GM ignitions.

 

"30 million cars worldwide recalled; paid compensation for 124 deaths; forfeited $900 million to the United States."-Wiki and every other source regarding those recalls.

Also, as it has been discussed a million times here, recalls do not equal reliability. Year after year, despite those recalls, Toyota and Lexus have ranked at or near the top for a few decades now. The fact that most of their lineup is stale is irrelevant. Do the math.

 

 

1 hour ago, USA-1 said:

@surreal1272 Also, I proudly post what I drive, like most on here. Funny that you don't...

Which has ZERO to do with the discussion at hand. You also haven't been here for a while because I have posted work i've done on my current car (my little runabout '96 RAV4) and posted on my previous car as well (my '06 Dodge Magnum). Stop assuming $h! you can't back up and stick to the subject next time. Nice cyber stalking though. Save yourself the trouble next time and just take a drive around the Peoria area. Stalk the old fashioned way next time. Here's the most recent post about the RAV4 stalker.

 

 

Edited November 4, 2019 by surreal1272

[USA-1]

4 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

I'll see your one Toyota example and raise you GM ignitions.

 

"30 million cars worldwide recalled; paid compensation for 124 deaths; forfeited $900 million to the United States."-Wiki and every other source regarding those recalls.

Also, as it has been discussed a million times here, recalls do not equal reliability. Year after year, despite those recalls, Toyota and Lexus have ranked at or near the top for a few decades now. The fact that most of their lineup is stale is irrelevant. Do the math.

 

 

Which has ZERO to do with the discussion at hand. You also haven't been here for a while because I have posted work i've done on my current car (my little runabout '96 RAV4) and posted on my previous car as well (my '06 Dodge Magnum). Stop assuming $h! you can't back up and stick to the subject next time. Nice cyber stalking though. Save yourself the trouble next time and just take a drive around the Peoria area. Stalk the old fashioned way next time. Here's the most recent post about the RAV4 stalker.

 

 

I stayed on the subject of Hyundai you changed it to GM and Toyota.

"Custom" toyota RAV4 throw away? Seriously? Quite the classic, classic waste of time and money. Quite the dedicated love for toyota you have there. LMAO!!

 

WTF? "cyber stalking you?" Dream on. Everyone on here looks at other peoples' cars, it's part of what the site is about you freakin' weirdo. 

Edited November 4, 2019 by USA-1

[USA-1]

To put this back on track about Hyundai's 10yr/100k new buyer warranty and the fact that they lean on it to sell and do not transfer it to every other owner speaks volumes.

Hyundai does not have a quality or reliable image or loyal owners like Chevy or Ford here in the U.S.

Edited November 4, 2019 by USA-1

[surreal1272]

1 hour ago, USA-1 said:

I stayed on the subject of Hyundai you changed it to GM and Toyota.

"Custom" toyota RAV4 throw away? Seriously? Quite the classic, classic waste of time and money. Quite the dedicated love for toyota you have there. LMAO!!

 

WTF? "cyber stalking you?" Dream on. Everyone on here looks at other peoples' cars, it's part of what the site is about you freakin' weirdo. 

You really have a reading comprehension and ego problem. My cyberstalking comment was meant with obvious sarcasm and a joke but here you are getting bent out of shape about it, so much so that you even insult what I drive. It’s pathetic and utterly typical of the posts you have made to me and others whenever we say something you don’t agree with. 
 

You also think that I’m veering off the subject with my GM and Toyota reference while YOU are the one who made reference to Hyundai and Kia on a damn Alfa thread. Double standard much? 
 

BTW, because my worth is not decided by what I drive (unlike yourself apparently), I am perfectly fine with my old Yoda and it’s 267K miles and being generally bulletproof. It has not jack$h! to do with any affinity for Toyota. I’ve owned everything from Toyota, to Chevrolet, to Dodge, and then some. Maybe if you weren’t so insecure in yourself and lashing out at others (as well as insulting their vehicle choices), you’d see how utterly full of $h! your are and understand that some folks don’t need approval in regards to what they drive. 
 

Besides, keep your twelve year old insults straight. A few weeks ago I was a RAM fan and now I’m a Toyota fan. Which is it Sally?

 

1 hour ago, USA-1 said:

To put this back on track about Hyundai's 10yr/100k new buyer warranty and the fact that they lean on it to sell and do not transfer it to every other owner speaks volumes.

Hyundai does not have a quality or reliable image or loyal owners like Chevy or Ford here in the U.S.

Loyalty? Domestics have lost market share for decades in the US. Outside of the full size truck market, there is no overall loyalty to domestics here especially when one sees the history of them taking a royal $h! on “loyal” owners loyalty for so long. 

Edited November 5, 2019 by surreal1272

[oldshurst442]

1 hour ago, USA-1 said:

To put this back on track about Hyundai's 10yr/100k new buyer warranty and the fact that they lean on it to sell and do not transfer it to every other owner speaks volumes.

Hyundai does not have a quality or reliable image or loyal owners like Chevy or Ford here in the U.S.

Chevrolet loyal owners?

The Impala once sold 1 million copies per year...

The Impala has died 3 deaths... 

From Citation II to Celebrity to Lumina to Impala.  From Chevette to Cavalier to Cobalt to Cruze...and Cruze is dead? I think?...all because the Japanese (and now....Koreans) keep all the loyal Chevrolet owners to themselves...

The Chevrolet fullsized pick-up truck is now in 3rd place in sales behind the big bad Dodge!  A lifetime, the Dodge was in 3rd place.  

 

Edited November 5, 2019 by oldshurst442

[oldshurst442]

Autoline Detroit today just said that the French might want to put Alfa Romeo and Maserati on the block if the merger is going to go through. 

These two brands are bleeding money and they deem them not to be worth the effort trying to promote them since their sales are dismal as well...

just click on that link. I hope it starts when John McElroy  is talking about it.   

https://youtu.be/NmUdAWdb6ew?t=177

 

Edited November 5, 2019 by oldshurst442

[USA-1]

2 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

You really have a reading comprehension and ego problem. My cyberstalking comment was meant with obvious sarcasm and a joke but here you are getting bent out of shape about it, so much so that you even insult what I drive. It’s pathetic and utterly typical of the posts you have made to me and others whenever we say something you don’t agree with. 
 

You also think that I’m veering off the subject with my GM and Toyota reference while YOU are the one who made reference to Hyundai and Kia on a damn Alfa thread. Double standard much? 
 

BTW, because my worth is not decided by what I drive (unlike yourself apparently), I am perfectly fine with my old Yoda and it’s 267K miles and being generally bulletproof. It has not jack$h! to do with any affinity for Toyota. I’ve owned everything from Toyota, to Chevrolet, to Dodge, and then some. Maybe if you weren’t so insecure in yourself and lashing out at others (as well as insulting their vehicle choices), you’d see how utterly full of $h! your are and understand that some folks don’t need approval in regards to what they drive. 

Cry me a river. That's why you were triggered right? Stating it several times? Sure back track on being an ass because you can't erase after you've calmed down from your apparent tantrum haha. 

Funny I'm the one with two college degrees including an MS yet you think you know about my knowledge? That's some funny sh!t right there! It's selective reading because I detect BS and don't waste my time with it.  

I was comparing warranties with vehicles on opposite sides of the spectrum and you went further off with other manf., hypocritical much?

I've seen where you and your buddy go off on others on here that don't agree with you, so it's you with an ego problem guy.  

[surreal1272]

12 minutes ago, USA-1 said:

Cry me a river. That's why you were triggered right? Stating it several times? Sure back track on being an ass because you can't erase after you've calmed down from your apparent tantrum haha. 

Funny I'm the one with two college degrees including an MS yet you think you know about my knowledge? That's some funny sh!t right there! It's selective reading because I detect BS and don't waste my time with it.  

I was comparing warranties with vehicles on opposite sides of the spectrum and you went further off with other manf., hypocritical much?

I've seen where you and your buddy go off on others on here that don't agree with you, so it's you with an ego problem guy.  

Just how delusional are you? You act like I’m the one that was “triggered” but it was you that deflected the discussion into personal BS like I why didn’t post about my ride. You have made one asinine assumption after another. What ironic in your post here is that everything you are trying to project onto me describes how you’ve acted since you started posting again a few months ago. If you don’t see the shear irony in what you just said, then there is no hope for you. Your fragile little ego got popped and you have to take it out on others with personal jabs and insults about others rides. I have no said any of that so again, the only triggered ego here is you and you have proven that ten fold. 

21 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Chevrolet loyal owners?

The Impala once sold 1 million copies per year...

The Impala has died 3 deaths... 

From Citation II to Celebrity to Lumina to Impala.  From Chevette to Cavalier to Cobalt to Cruze...and Cruze is dead? I think?...all because the Japanese (and now....Koreans) keep all the loyal Chevrolet owners to themselves...

The Chevrolet fullsized pick-up truck is now in 3rd place in sales behind the big bad Dodge!  A lifetime, the Dodge was in 3rd place.  

 

Exactly. Those who actually know the long and sometimes sordid history of the domestics understand how absolutely laugh out loud dumb it is to talk about any of them being loyal to their customers. They, like every other car company out there, are loyal to their shareholders only. These things are easier to see when one is able to step outside that fanboy bubble that some choose to live in. 

Edited November 5, 2019 by surreal1272

[USA-1]

31 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

You really have a reading comprehension and ego problem. My cyberstalking comment was meant with obvious sarcasm and a joke but here you are getting bent out of shape about it, so much so that you even insult what I drive. It’s pathetic and utterly typical of the posts you have made to me and others whenever we say something you don’t agree with. 
 

You also think that I’m veering off the subject with my GM and Toyota reference while YOU are the one who made reference to Hyundai and Kia on a damn Alfa thread. Double standard much? 
 

BTW, because my worth is not decided by what I drive (unlike yourself apparently), I am perfectly fine with my old Yoda and it’s 267K miles and being generally bulletproof. It has not jack$h! to do with any affinity for Toyota. I’ve owned everything from Toyota, to Chevrolet, to Dodge, and then some. Maybe if you weren’t so insecure in yourself and lashing out at others (as well as insulting their vehicle choices), you’d see how utterly full of $h! your are and understand that some folks don’t need approval in regards to what they drive. 
 

Besides, keep your twelve year old insults straight. A few weeks ago I was a RAM fan and now I’m a Toyota fan. Which is it Sally?

 

Loyalty? Domestics have lost market share for decades in the US. Outside of the full size truck market, there is no overall loyalty to domestics here especially when one sees the history of them taking a royal $h! on “loyal” owners loyalty for so long. 

I know you are pretty F'ing confused. Yet you've called me a GM fanboy, but I've stated that I like the look of or build quality of other makes and models and have owned other makes and models so you might want to figure it out yourself Nelly. 🤣

Only thing the Asian brands have taken over are cheap throw away cars. GM knows there's no money in them so letting most of the cars die is a good idea. Silverado/Sierra, Tahoe/Yukon, Corvette, Camaro, Malibu and full Cadillac lineup, yeah no problems for the future. Plenty of loyal buyers, always will be.  

[USA-1]

9 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Just how delusional are you? You act like I’m the one that was “triggered” but it was you that deflected the discussion into personal BS like I why didn’t post about my ride. You have made one asinine assumption after another. What ironic in your post here is that everything you are trying to project onto me describes how you’ve acted since you started posting again a few months ago. If you don’t see the shear irony in what you just said, then there is no hope for you. Your fragile little ego got popped and you have to take it out on others with personal jabs and insults about others rides. I have no said any of that so again, the only triggered ego here is you and you have proven that ten fold. 

Exactly. Those who actually know the long and sometimes sordid history of the domestics understand how absolutely laugh out loud dumb it is to talk about any of them being loyal to their customers. They, like every other car company out there, are loyal to their shareholders only. These things are easier to see when one is able to step outside that fanboy bubble that some choose to live in. 

Again a long paragraph of triggered. You started with the 12 yo. comments like you've done to others on here so it's not me with the problem, that's clear. Did you get the notoriety you needed now? LMAO! 

Other way around genius. Loyalty is the customer base like with all long time manufacturers. It makes sense that you wouldn't understand.

 

[oldshurst442]

20 minutes ago, USA-1 said:

 

Only thing the Asian brands have taken over are cheap throw away cars. GM knows there's no money in them so letting most of the cars die is a good idea. Silverado/Sierra, Tahoe/Yukon, Corvette, Camaro, Malibu and full Cadillac lineup, yeah no problems for the future. Plenty of loyal buyers, always will be.  

Throw away cars?

Id say these are/were bread and butter cars...GM went through all their brand's versions of J Cars and the FWD A Platform and N Platform that spawned Grand Ams and Calais and  Achievas and Aleros and Corsicas and Tempests and Skylarks and Somersets and still couldnt dent Corolla and Civic loyalty.  

W-Body?  Gone!  Epsilon successor. Gone! 

Pontiac and Oldsmobile?  Gone! 

Malibu is gonna die too...rumors...

The CamCords and the Sonata/Optima clean the Malibu's clock.   The Fusion is going away and even if people are aware that the Fusion is going away, they are NOT buying Malibus...

Camaro?   No word yet on a replacement. Project for a successor model has been at best case scenario pushed back and/or postponed...worst case scenario is another death for Camaro as plans have not been made...yet. Just that no new Camaro is planned for anytime soon...

Silverado sales are falling. Ram trucks have taken over their spot.  I suspect its the ugliness of that truck's face. But Im afraid if they make the Silverado a looker again, I think the people will not be back. I think those sales lost to Ram, those people will stay with Ram. 

Sorry man.  I fear for CHEVROLET at the moment.  Corvette will do fine. For now.  But when the novelty of mid-engine wears off, will the peeps be back for another 60 years as they were for the front engine, rear wheel drive version? 

 

 

 

Edited November 5, 2019 by oldshurst442

[USA-1]

16 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Throw away cars?

Id say these are/were bread and butter cars...GM went through all their brand's versions of J Cars and the N Platform that spawned Grand Ams and Achievas and Aleros and Corsicas and Tempests and Skylarks and Somersets and still couldnt dent Corolla and Civic loyalty.  

W-Body?  Gone!  Epsilon successor. Gone! 

Pontiac and Oldsmobile?  Gone! 

Malibu is gonna die too...rumors...

The CamCords and the Sonata/Optima clean the Malibu's clock.   The Fusion is going away and even if people are aware that the Fusion is going away, they are NOT buying Malibus...

Camaro?   No word yet on a replacement. Project for a successor model has been at best case scenario pushed back and/or postponed...worst case scenario is another death for Camaro as plans have not been made...yet. Just that no new Camaro is planned for anytime soon...

Silverado sales are falling. Ram trucks have taken over their spot.  I suspect its the ugliness of that truck's face. But Im afraid if they make the Silverado a looker again, I think the people will not be back. I think those sales lost to Ram, those people will stay with Ram. 

Sorry man.  I fear for CHEVROLET at the moment.  Corvette will do fine. For now.  But when the novelty of mid-engine wears off, will the peeps be back for another 60 years as they were for the front engine, rear wheel drive version? 

 

 

 

GM and Chevrolet are fine, great balance sheet of cash on hand and record profit and regular all new or updated trucks, SUV's and Caddy's out for next several months and years. All over for FCA once the new Ram buyers figure out that all they bought was an unreliable Chrysler wearing lipstick. New GM truck interiors coming 2021 because GM does listen to their customers. Only trim that needed some additional high end trim are the high end models High Country and Denali, lower models are fine.

Worry more about FCA needing a merger to stay afloat and Ford for that matter with majorly botched new launches of important SUV's like Explorer/Aviator.

Edited November 5, 2019 by USA-1

[surreal1272]

42 minutes ago, USA-1 said:

I know you are pretty F'ing confused. Yet you've called me a GM fanboy, but I've stated that I like the look of or build quality of other makes and models and have owned other makes and models so you might want to figure it out yourself Nelly. 🤣

Only thing the Asian brands have taken over are cheap throw away cars. GM knows there's no money in them so letting most of the cars die is a good idea. Silverado/Sierra, Tahoe/Yukon, Corvette, Camaro, Malibu and full Cadillac lineup, yeah no problems for the future. Plenty of loyal buyers, always will be.  

Started with a “6.2” (a GM motor) in his username and constantly defends GM but he’s not a GM “fanboy”. 
 

mmmmkay. 
 

Oh and since my paragraphs are too long for you, I’ll shorten it up for you in the future and use smaller words. 

[oldshurst442]

5 minutes ago, USA-1 said:

GM and Chevrolet are fine, great balance sheet of cash on hand and record profit and regular all new or updated trucks, SUV's and Caddy's out for next several months and years. All over once all the Ram buyer find out what an unreliable vehicle they bought. New GM truck interiors coming 2021 because GM does listen to their customers. Only trim that needed some additional high end trim are the high end models High Country and Denali, lower models are fine.

Worry more about FCA needing a merger to stay afloat and Ford for that matter with majorly botched new launches of important SUV's like Explorer/Aviator.

Chryco was a goner a decade plus ago. Sure!  The FCA just bought them time. And now this merger maybe buys them more time. 

FoMoCo should have NOT mortgaged their house the way they did. But they desperately needed money back then. Bail-out money would have made them re-structure their debt like GM did.  Now they have a big problem. And botching important product launches really phoques them up, I agree.

But GM is putting all their money on EVs.

Many reasons NOT to do this:

1. EVs have shown NOT to be adopted by ANYBODY worldwide.... (Yes, I know...governments are forcing out the internal combustion engine...EVs are kinda the future)

2. GM putting all their eggs in the EV basket DOES make sense SINCE governments around the world are forcing peeps outta their gasoline cars....but...TESLA holds those cards.   GM not only has some image problems concerning certain segments in the ICE world, but TESLA is a GIANT in the EV world. And MOST EV conscience peeps  out there not only LOVE TESLA over any other EV wannabe, but it seems EV lovers HATE on GM the MOST because of the EV1 in the 1990s...

Like I said,  CHEVROLET is in a pickle...the Silverado is THE bread and butter....and it aint doing too well. Thank the Lord for the SUV versions of those trucks...(Tahoe, Yukon and Escalade and GMC in general)  

Ms Barra better make the right choices for Chevrolet in these coming months...

[surreal1272]

As far as this Alfa nonsense goes, the smartest thing FCA can do is to dump Alfa and Fiat in the US and out those resources back into their domestic holdings (and not just Jeep and RAM for once). 

[USA-1]

3 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Started with a “6.2” (a GM motor) in his username and constantly defends GM but he’s not a GM “fanboy”. 
 

mmmmkay. 
 

Oh and since my paragraphs are too long for you, I’ll shorten it up for you in the future and use smaller words. 

6.2L is a Ford motor too. Nice try.

Oh is your arthritis flaring up? that's sarcasm so don't blow up. 

[balthazar]

1 hour ago, oldshurst442 said:

Autoline Detroit today just said that the French might want to put Alfa Romeo and Maserati on the block if the merger is going to go through. 

These two brands are bleeding money and they deem them not to be worth the effort trying to promote them since their sales are dismal as well...

A puzzler for sure; losing sales & money, deemed not worth keeping.... "WHO WANTS TO BUY A SWEET ITALIAN AUTO BRAND? EH?"

Just shut them down, nary a tear will be shed.

[USA-1]

32 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Chryco was a goner a decade plus ago. Sure!  The FCA just bought them time. And now this merger maybe buys them more time. 

FoMoCo should have NOT mortgaged their house the way they did. But they desperately needed money back then. Bail-out money would have made them re-structure their debt like GM did.  Now they have a big problem. And botching important product launches really phoques them up, I agree.

But GM is putting all their money on EVs.

Many reasons NOT to do this:

1. EVs have shown NOT to be adopted by ANYBODY worldwide.... (Yes, I know...governments are forcing out the internal combustion engine...EVs are kinda the future)

2. GM putting all their eggs in the EV basket DOES make sense SINCE governments around the world are forcing peeps outta their gasoline cars....but...TESLA holds those cards.   GM not only has some image problems concerning certain segments in the ICE world, but TESLA is a GIANT in the EV world. And MOST EV conscience peeps  out there not only LOVE TESLA over any other EV wannabe, but it seems EV lovers HATE on GM the MOST because of the EV1 in the 1990s...

Like I said,  CHEVROLET is in a pickle...the Silverado is THE bread and butter....and it aint doing too well. Thank the Lord for the SUV versions of those trucks...(Tahoe, Yukon and Escalade and GMC in general)  

Ms Barra better make the right choices for Chevrolet in these coming months...

Exactly right because Ford was in trouble in 2006 and put up the farm for approx. $25B in credit loans when you could still get credit way before the crash in 2008 or they would have been there with their hands out too and they know it.

GM has always had several eggs in the EV basket though so it's not new. There were a lot of Volt loyal buyers when they came out in 2011 and it was a good car, but not the full BEV that the Model S brought everyone in 2012. Tesla's biggest problem is delivery vehicles or delivering when promised. GM has the employees and plant capacity that Tesla doesn't and that's the truth. GM is pretty good about delivering when they say (minus the C8 had to perfect that girl and they did) so BEV's will roll out easily for Chevrolet and eventually the whole Cadillac line which I'm not ready for, can't wait for the Blackwing V8 to start showing up at dealers 💪🏻😎 

Silverado will be fine and will easily regain sales well into the 2nd spot when the full range of Silvy submodels and all trims are available for 2020. Big ones were you weren't able to get the 6.2L in the Trail Boss which is now available for 2020 and having either low trims or fully loaded trims available in the 2019 MY so many held off on purchasing while they ramped up production. The only old K2 they were building was the Double Cab which doesn't sell as well as the Crew Cab where Ram offered both with new and old Ram's. I hear it's because GM didn't want to cannibalize sales of the new Silvy. They're doing something right making good money, so on to 2020 we go!

Edited November 5, 2019 by USA-1

[oldshurst442]

2 minutes ago, balthazar said:

A puzzler for sure; losing sales & money, deemed not worth keeping.... "WHO WANTS TO BUY A SWEET ITALIAN AUTO BRAND? EH?"

Just shut them down, nary a tear will be shed.

I know I dont really care.   I dont think there has ever been a Maserati that I liked.  I like the sound that their 4.7 liter V8 makes, but I also heard that that engine is not that reliable....  kinda worthless.  

Alfa Romeo?

They made some nice lookin' cars over the years, sure.  But I dont consider myself a fan. Like with Maserati, I like the noises that their TTV6 makes in the Giulia, but I heard that that engine is not reliable either... so what's the point?

[balthazar]

Saw a stelvio today; a pudgy nothingburger.
Saw one of their commercials on TV tonight, without checking it I think they're still using the same tagline font they used in the '80s.
Dead brand.

Maseratis, meh- they peaked with the Muria, and that was 1969.

[daves87rs]

Considering I've been in both Alfa Products ( Co workers), I might add my 2 cents here. I liked their their looks, but didn't look much past that. Driving them- MUCH different story! Let's just say they are fun to drive! They may not be pure Dodge power, but they handle quite well. And the interior are something I could look at every day.....

Stelvio was a surprise....wasn't quite as fun to get back into the Equinox... 😉 

They have a market, it just needs to grow a bit.

Never thought I'd come to Alfa's rescue.... 😮 

[David]

2 hours ago, balthazar said:

Saw a stelvio today; a pudgy nothingburger.
Saw one of their commercials on TV tonight, without checking it I think they're still using the same tagline font they used in the '80s.
Dead brand.

Maseratis, meh- they peaked with the Muria, and that was 1969.

Ya mean "Dead Brand Zombie Walk" 😛 

[oldshurst442]

7 hours ago, daves87rs said:

Considering I've been in both Alfa Products ( Co workers), I might add my 2 cents here. I liked their their looks, but didn't look much past that. Driving them- MUCH different story! Let's just say they are fun to drive! They may not be pure Dodge power, but they handle quite well. And the interior are something I could look at every day.....

Stelvio was a surprise....wasn't quite as fun to get back into the Equinox... 😉 

They have a market, it just needs to grow a bit.

Never thought I'd come to Alfa's rescue.... 😮 

Yeah, the Giulia does look good. Sounds good  great. Handles good  great.  The "F" part of FCA  missed the boat in marketing this car.  But then again, people are weary about Alfa Romeos and their notorious unreliability...

The Stelvio...like Balthy said, its a pudgy thing. Not appealing to the eye one bit.

Fun to drive you say?  Maybe. Its a CUV. Which brings me to you mentioning your Equinox. The Equinox is an appliance thing. It ain't meant to be fun to drive... 

Not hard to surpass an Equinox in terms of smiles per mile driven as compared to other "funner" CUVs. 

Firstly, The Stelvio is front engine, rear wheel drive as compared to the Equinox being FWD. Not that FWD automatically means boring, but the Equinox is tuned on purpose to NOT offend anyone.  Its purposely built to be boring.

Secondly, That 2.9 liter V6 makes some nice sounds when accelerating.  

About having a market.

That is the marketing department's job. But they need loads and loads of cash to convince people.  Cadillac billions amounts of cash. PSA does NOT want to fork over that kind of money around on the 2 brands (Maserati or Alfa) knowing they got more successful models on more successful brands to take care of. 

[balthazar]

Everybody has different opinions on 'sounds great', of course. Personally, I think it sounds like crap.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ky_BogbSIN8

 

[oldshurst442]

9 hours ago, balthazar said:

Saw a stelvio today; a pudgy nothingburger.
Saw one of their commercials on TV tonight, without checking it I think they're still using the same tagline font they used in the '80s.
Dead brand.

Maseratis, meh- they peaked with the Muria, and that was 1969.

Muria?

You meam Miura?

That was a Lamborghini.  But why do I think you already knew that and you purposely fudged it up telling us how "meh" Maserati really is?

I believe Maserati's Miura was a Ghibli in 1969. 

I like the Miura...

The Ghibli?

Let's talk about what other cars I like in 1969 instead.

Corvette

Hurst/Olds  &  442

Pontiac GTO 

Mustang Boss 429

Plymouth Roadrunner

Grand Prix 429 SJ  

Lincoln  Continental MKiii

Cadillac Coupe de VIlle

 

 

[balthazar]

^ No; I screwed that one up (Miura).

In looking at Maserati images, I guess I would gravitate toward the vintage 3500 GT; it looks to have borrowed heavily from the '55 T-Bird. But the modern stuff, design-wise, is just so... regular.

[ccap41]

13 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

You really have a reading comprehension and ego problem. My cyberstalking comment was meant with obvious sarcasm and a joke but here you are getting bent out of shape about it, so much so that you even insult what I drive. It’s pathetic and utterly typical of the posts you have made to me and others whenever we say something you don’t agree with. 

+1

13 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

You also think that I’m veering off the subject with my GM and Toyota reference while YOU are the one who made reference to Hyundai and Kia on a damn Alfa thread. Double standard much? 

+1

13 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

Maybe if you weren’t so insecure in yourself and lashing out at others (as well as insulting their vehicle choices), you’d see how utterly full of $h! your are and understand that some folks don’t need approval in regards to what they drive

+1

13 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

Besides, keep your twelve year old insults straight. A few weeks ago I was a RAM fan and now I’m a Toyota fan. Which is it Sally?

Yup. You'll get thrown into anything when you have an open opinion. 

There are only a few brands that I don't have an open opinion on and the biggest is Nissan. They're all garbage and it'll be difficult to change my mind about them. 

[Robert Hall]

I'd consider a lease on a Stelvio or Guilia...I think one would be fun for a short term fling, not any sort of long term commitment.   About the only current Nissans I'd probably enjoy would be the 370Z or GT-R.  Maybe a Maxima.   I've driven the old 350Z and a 370Z as rentals, they were a lot of fun, if you look past the cheap interior materials.   The Infiniti coupe and small sedan seem pretty nice also. 

Edited November 5, 2019 by Robert Hall

[ccap41]

GT-R and 370Z are fine but I'd never spend the money on them when there are other options that are way better all around for the same or very similar dollars. Also, I'm not a V6 fan so neither really sound like I want a toy to sound.

[surreal1272]

15 hours ago, USA-1 said:

6.2L is a Ford motor too. Nice try.

Oh is your arthritis flaring up? that's sarcasm so don't blow up. 

Rather it be arthritis than being patently full of $h! when trying to convince others that you’re not a “fanboy” when you are the very definition of it. Oh wait. Maybe it’s not fanboyism. Maybe...
 

[surreal1272]

16 hours ago, USA-1 said:

6.2L is a Ford motor too. Nice try.

Oh is your arthritis flaring up? that's sarcasm so don't blow up. 

And you know good and well which motor I’m referring to as it is the same motor that was implied in your last username (again, this on top of your constant GM defending AND Ford bashing). If you’re going to lie about it, at least try to be more convincing about it. 
 

[ccap41]

...Mercedes also had a 6.2 and it was as glorious as they come. 

[surreal1272]

14 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

...Mercedes also had a 6.2 and it was as glorious as they come. 

Pretty sure that wouldn’t mean much to a GM fan lol. 

[ccap41]

9 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Pretty sure that wouldn’t mean much to a GM fan lol. 

Not in the slightest. 

[Drew Dowdell]

guys...

[USA-1]

7 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

And you know good and well which motor I’m referring to as it is the same motor that was implied in your last username (again, this on top of your constant GM defending AND Ford bashing). If you’re going to lie about it, at least try to be more convincing about it. 
 

Yep, Wards 10 Best! Good find troll!! I didn't lie about a damn thing. Never said it wasn't was my screen name just said Ford makes a 6.2L as well LMAO! Thanks made my day! 🤣   

6 hours ago, ccap41 said:

Not in the slightest. 

Hey look at you GM haters unite! You trolls are a great team on here. Haters gonna hate! This is good need to get some popcorn going! 😂 

Edited November 6, 2019 by USA-1