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Cadillac News: Cadillac CT6 DHam Production to End in January


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Kid_Icarus_Reaper.pngThe Cadillac CT6 will end production in January 2020 the company confirmed as part of a letter to 800 employees due to be laid off. This means that the 2020 CT6 will be the final model year for the car in the U.S.. Like the recently announced cancellation of the Buick Regal in the U.S., the CT6 will continue in production in China where sedan sales are still big. 

The news of the CT6's cancellation is not a surprise. GM's Detroit Hamtramck was originally slated for closure until the negotiations with the UAW brought some product back to the plant.  GM is planning on building the next generation of EV trucks and SUVs at the plant including the possible return of the Hummer nameplate.  Once the CT6 departs, the only sedans in Cadillac's lineup will be the new CT4 and CT5 that are just entering production now.


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Just read this on the Cadillac Society site. GM bean counters are just making more bad decisions canceling a model that they spent hundreds of millions of dollars on R&D and never really even marketed it, Volt is another car that comes to mind. They could have kept the XT6 on the CT6's Omega platform to help with costs and just build CT6 in limited quantities like MB does with the S and BMW does with the 7, they've never really been big volume cars in the fullsize luxury sedan class.

I'm going to go drive a CT6-V Blackwing that my go to Caddy dealer has. They had 6 sold 3, 2 black, 1 white left on this shipment.

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10 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Mary Barra's GM.... cut your way to prosperity. 

 

Mary's just the messenger for the top brass bean counters, you know that.

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I read about Holden this morning and now this. What is wrong with GM? They cannot get anything right, out on time , or be competitive. How did so a mighty storied company be cut down to what it is now? Killing those brands solved no problems. It exposed the many issues of GM. It left many countries globally too.  Buick is now an suv/crossover brand in the United States.  Cadillac after ten years is still not fixed. I guess the bigger issue is how do you fix all of GM?  What is wrong with GM? It is getting harder for enthusiasts to support GM. It is sad when you say "they make nothing for me".  Sad truth is... they do not.  I guess the enthusiast are not the the majority and we are the minority. Sad indeed....

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8 minutes ago, NINETY EIGHT REGENCY said:

  What is wrong with GM? It is getting harder for enthusiasts to support GM. It is sad when you say "they make nothing for me".  Sad truth is... they do not.  I guess the enthusiast are not the the majority and we are the minority. Sad indeed....

Very true...the masses that lease generic CUVs are the core of the market.    GM is focusing on vanilla lease appliances, trying to be like Toyota.    Vehicles so boring that most will not be remembered in 5-10 years. 

And they are wasting names that had some potential like Trailblazer and Blazer on generic CUVs;  what if the Ford Bronco is successful?  GM has nothing like that and is unlikely to do anything like that because it doesn't fit the transverse engine generic mediocre configuration... 

I suspect the CT4 and CT5 are doomed also...

Edited by Robert Hall
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38 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Mary Barra's GM.... cut your way to prosperity. 

 

I mean, I understand it but, if you're trying to rebuild a luxurious reputation, you are going to have to take losses until the brand catches fire and gains(regains) its reputation. 

This just doesn't seem like the direction Cadillac should be heading. It's just a feeling they're almost "giving up" and letting the Germans stay up top. 

They seemed like they were in a really good spot with the most recent generation and these new generations should have built upon those instead of feeling like they're going backward. 

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4 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

 

This just doesn't seem like the direction Cadillac should be heading. It's just a feeling they're almost "giving up" and letting the Germans stay up top. 

 

I think they are settling for competing at the tier 2 level, against Lexus's FWD based generic CUVs rather than competing at the top level...since transverse engine/FWD mediocrity fits their model.   Basically rebodied mediocre appliances also seen at Chevy, Buick/GMC dealers with different chrome trim and styling, but the same soulless gray plastic mediocrity at the core.  Forgettable appliances. 

 

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RIP CT6, killed by GM's board room bean counters before your time really was up and not able to show what you could bring to the world globally.

RIP CT6

This truly keeps me in SUVs as the 4 & 5 are just too small.

3 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

I think they are settling for competing at the tier 2 level, against Lexus's FWD based generic CUVs rather than competing at the top level...since transverse engine/FWD mediocrity fits their model. 

In some ways, it's like the 80s all over again when GM went all in for mediocrity w/ FWD generics at every brand.

This approach at GM is what could make my next auto purchase a non-gm product.

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4 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

I think they are settling for competing at the tier 2 level, against Lexus's FWD based generic CUVs rather than competing at the top level...since transverse engine/FWD mediocrity fits their model.   Basically rebodied mediocre appliances also seen at Chevy, Buick/GMC dealers with different chrome trim and styling, but the same soulless gray plastic mediocrity at the core.  Forgettable appliances. 

 

It's just a shame because only a couple years ago everybody's view of Cadillac was that they're 7 tiers above Lincoln and now they're struggling to compete with anything Lincoln has come out with recently. Granted, some of that is Lincoln escalating their portfolio but, a lot of it is Cadillac laying down. 

5 minutes ago, dfelt said:

RIP CT6, killed by GM's board room bean counters before your time really was up and not able to show what you could bring to the world globally.

It's still sold outside of the US. 

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Just now, ccap41 said:

It's just a shame because only a couple years ago everybody's view of Cadillac was that they're 7 tiers above Lincoln and now they're struggling to compete with anything Lincoln has come out with recently. Granted, some of that is Lincoln escalating their portfolio but, a lot of it is Cadillac laying down. 

I have some serious doubts that the new Escalade is going to go to the next level like the Navigator did in the most recent iteration. I just no longer have the confidence that GM will do the right thing.  Dropping the Blackwing from the option sheet on the Escalade is what convinced me of that. 

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2 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

It's just a shame because only a couple years ago everybody's view of Cadillac was that they're 7 tiers above Lincoln and now they're struggling to compete with anything Lincoln has come out with recently. Granted, some of that is Lincoln escalating their portfolio but, a lot of it is Cadillac laying down. 

It's still sold outside of the US. 

China only, so that to me is not global, GM seems to be repeating mistakes they made here in the US. Sad, very sad!

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11 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

I think they are settling for competing at the tier 2 level, against Lexus's FWD based generic CUVs rather than competing at the top level...since transverse engine/FWD mediocrity fits their model.   Basically rebodied mediocre appliances also seen at Chevy, Buick/GMC dealers with different chrome trim and styling, but the same soulless gray plastic mediocrity at the core.  Forgettable appliances. 

 

No, they just released the RWD/AWD CT4 and CT5. GM top brass never even gave it a chance being it just came out in 2016 and it didn't sell well because they never properly marketed it...and again it just came out in 2016. They're just making room for the BEV3 platform at D-HAM. Sucks...

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6 minutes ago, USA-1 said:

No, they just released the RWD/AWD CT4 and CT5. GM top brass never even gave it a chance being it just came out in 2016 and it didn't sell well because they never properly marketed it...and again it just came out in 2016. They're just making room for the BEV3 platform at D-HAM. Sucks...

Oh I know about the CT4 and CT5....never see them, though...part of the problem with the CT4 and CT5 as far competing against others in the compact and midsize luxury market (M-B, BMW) is the lack of body styles...no coupes, no convertibles...albeit those are a small niche, but for luxury cars, why not?   Instead Cadillac keeps pushing the generic XT* crossovers....volume lease appliances.

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Just now, Robert Hall said:

Oh I know about the CT4 and CT5....never see them, I suspect they will fail...

They're not really out yet. Just about hitting dealers now. 

Though I suspect you are right if only because sedan sales are tanking so hard lately. 

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13 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I have some serious doubts that the new Escalade is going to go to the next level like the Navigator did in the most recent iteration. I just no longer have the confidence that GM will do the right thing.  Dropping the Blackwing from the option sheet on the Escalade is what convinced me of that. 

I'll ask my Cadillac guru at the dealership to see what he's hearing from Corp.

Navigator is TTV6 only so Ford isn't making the best decisions either.

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2 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

They're not really out yet. Just about hitting dealers now. 

Though I suspect you are right if only because sedan sales are tanking so hard lately. 

I just can't see them succeeding against the established brands...so many models in the compact and midsize luxury segment...there is nothing special about them. 

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3 minutes ago, USA-1 said:

I'll ask my Cadillac guru at the dealership to see what he's hearing from Corp.

Navigator is TTV6 only so Ford isn't making the best decisions either.

The navigator's engine is perfectly fine. It has gobs of torque and it pulls hard. 

 

and I'm not one who particularly likes the Ecoboost engines. 

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14 minutes ago, dfelt said:

China only, so that to me is not global, GM seems to be repeating mistakes they made here in the US. Sad, very sad!

They build the CT6 in the Chinese factory and ship them throughout EMEIA. Sedans just aren't selling here, sales are down for all manf's in all classes of sedans. Still think CT6 could be offered in limited quantities here. It comes down to plant space and BEV3 is the big push now.  

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1 minute ago, Drew Dowdell said:

The navigator's engine is perfectly fine. It has gobs of torque and it pulls hard. 

 

and I'm not one who particularly likes the Ecoboost engines. 

And the Navigator has 500 ft/lbs of torque while the Escalade has 460.   Sounds like it's more than adequate.

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6 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

They're not really out yet. Just about hitting dealers now. 

Though I suspect you are right if only because sedan sales are tanking so hard lately. 

I hope they can make it and they're priced right compared to the ATS and CTS. They actually did a great job at making room in the CT4 compared to the ATS too. I can still comfortably fit in the new CT4 at 6'3", but the ATS was cramped in front and back.

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3 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

And the Navigator has 500 ft/lbs of torque while the Escalade has 460.   Sounds like it's more than adequate.

It's still a small V6 however you slice it. More moving parts to fail hauling that much weight around and the EB is still a fail. Have a buddy who is a mechanic for Ford, good for him, but not for Ford. Love live the small block V8 if only at GM and FCA/PSA. 😎

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4 minutes ago, USA-1 said:

It's still a small V6 however you slice it. More moving parts to fail hauling that much weight around and the EB is still a fail. Have a buddy who is a mechanic for Ford, good for him, but not for Ford. Love live the small block V8 if only at GM and FCA/PSA. 😎

99% of the buyers probably won't care or notice if it's a V6 or V8, and as long at lasts 3 years for a lease that will be fine for most consumers....yes, enthusiasts might prefer a V8, but most of the market aren't enthusiasts...

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13 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

The navigator's engine is perfectly fine. It has gobs of torque and it pulls hard. 

 

and I'm not one who particularly likes the Ecoboost engines. 

Still a small V6 any way you look at it. A fullsize luxury BOF SUV should have a proper V8. GM will thankfully continue that. Maybe they'll offer the new 5.5L flatplane crank Vette engine! Talk about torque :D

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1 minute ago, USA-1 said:

Still a small V6 any way you look at it. A fullsize luxury BOF SUV should have a proper V8. GM will thankfully continue that. Maybe they'll offer the new 5.5L flatplane crank Vette engine! Talk about torque :D

Unlikely. It will be the same 6.2 liter most likely

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52 minutes ago, NINETY EIGHT REGENCY said:

I read about Holden this morning and now this. What is wrong with GM? They cannot get anything right, out on time , or be competitive. How did so a mighty storied company be cut down to what it is now? Killing those brands solved no problems. It exposed the many issues of GM. It left many countries globally too.  Buick is now an suv/crossover brand in the United States.  Cadillac after ten years is still not fixed. I guess the bigger issue is how do you fix all of GM?  What is wrong with GM? It is getting harder for enthusiasts to support GM. It is sad when you say "they make nothing for me".  Sad truth is... they do not.  I guess the enthusiast are not the the majority and we are the minority. Sad indeed....

Starts at the top. Too much old school top brass mostly still in place...that's the problem they're just a bunch of impatient old b@stards haha!

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9 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Unlikely. It will be the same 6.2 liter most likely

I was kidding about the 5.5L flatplane, way too loud for luxury use.

6.2 is a great engine, but we should see some more juice and they now have the new 6.6L that could come in with more power for Escalade, output is held back big time in the HD's. 495hp out of the new 6.2L LT2 in NA form in C8 too.

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So I wonder what will happen to the Blackwing V8?  I thought the Chinese market CT6 was mostly 2.0 4s.   Will this engine just be another GM waste, or will it end up in a higher performance version of the C8? 

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12 minutes ago, USA-1 said:

Still a small V6 any way you look at it. A fullsize luxury BOF SUV should have a proper V8. GM will thankfully continue that. Maybe they'll offer the new 5.5L flatplane crank Vette engine! Talk about torque :D

"Flat plane crank" and "torque" is an oxymoron. 

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25 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

And the Navigator has 500 ft/lbs of torque while the Escalade has 460.   Sounds like it's more than adequate.

40 more lb. ft.? 😂 For now...

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2 minutes ago, USA-1 said:

40 more lb. ft.? 😂 For now...

Well, they are in the same ballpark....adequate for the use case...these aren't F350 crew cab duallies. 

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1 minute ago, ccap41 said:

"Flat plane crank" and "torque" is an oxymoron. 

Comes with twin turbo's in C8 which is what I was mentioning to Drew. 5.5L FP coming in TT form for Z06. Your welcome. 

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3 minutes ago, USA-1 said:

Comes with twin turbo's in C8 which is what I was mentioning to Drew. 5.5L FP coming in TT form for Z06. Your welcome. 

Nothing official about that yet, though?  Just a rumor at this point I thought...

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4 minutes ago, USA-1 said:

Comes with twin turbo's in C8 which is what I was mentioning to Drew. 5.5L FP coming in TT form for Z06. Your welcome. 

The Blackwing would make more sense in the Escalade, and that's headed to the bin. 

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2 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Nothing official about that yet, though?  Just a rumor at this point I thought...

https://www.motortrend.com/news/c8-corvette-z06-flat-plane-crank-twin-turbo-v-8/

2 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

The Blackwing would make more sense in the Escalade, and that's headed to the bin. 

It would probably be perfect and more efficient just too spendy to hand build. I'm going to drive the CT6-V here in a bit. I'll let ya know. Want some video? 💪🏻🇺🇸

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1 hour ago, USA-1 said:

Just read this on the Cadillac Society site. GM bean counters are just making more bad decisions canceling a model that they spent hundreds of millions of dollars on R&D and never really even marketed it, Volt is another car that comes to mind. They could have kept the XT6 on the CT6's Omega platform to help with costs and just build CT6 in limited quantities like MB does with the S and BMW does with the 7, they've never really been big volume cars in the fullsize luxury sedan class.

I'm going to go drive a CT6-V Blackwing that my go to Caddy dealer has. They had 6 sold 3, 2 black, 1 white left on this shipment.

Mercedes has sold over 500,000 of the current S-class world wide, so it isn’t such a small volume.

XT6 should have been an Omega platform crossover, I agree with you there and probably they could have made 2 crossovers on Omega to keep the platform viable.

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9 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Mercedes has sold over 500,000 of the current S-class world wide, so it isn’t such a small volume.

XT6 should have been an Omega platform crossover, I agree with you there and probably they could have made 2 crossovers on Omega to keep the platform viable.

I'm talking yearly low volume sales. S Class has been around for decades so 500K is pretty low volume world wide.

This "new plan" is clearly why Johan D left GM so abruptly. Someone needs to clear out the old bean counters who have been screwing GM over from the top for decades.

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24 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

So I wonder what will happen to the Blackwing V8?  I thought the Chinese market CT6 was mostly 2.0 4s.   Will this engine just be another GM waste, or will it end up in a higher performance version of the C8? 

I think it is a waste because China has a displacement tax increase at 4.0 liters, so the tax would be more than the 3.99 liter German V8s.  And I don’t think there is any V8 demand there anyway.

And since Cadillac didn’t make rest drive crossovers like I have been saying they should do for years, there is no where to use this engine.

1 minute ago, USA-1 said:

I'm talking yearly low volume sales. S Class has been around for decades so 500K is pretty low volume world wide.

This "new plan" is clearly why Johan D left GM so abruptly. Someone needs to clear out the old bean counters who have been screwing GM over from the top for decades.

500k since 2014 model year.  The W222 chassis S-class passed 500k units last week. So we are talking about 80k a year which is pretty good at a $125k a unit.

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5 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I think it is a waste because China has a displacement tax increase at 4.0 liters, so the tax would be more than the 3.99 liter German V8s.  And I don’t think there is any V8 demand there anyway.

And since Cadillac didn’t make rest drive crossovers like I have been saying they should do for years, there is no where to use this engine.

I was just chatting with my Caddy dealer buddy. They just had a meeting about it this morning. GM is considering the Blackwing in an Escalade-V. Lord please!!

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8 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I think it is a waste because China has a displacement tax increase at 4.0 liters, so the tax would be more than the 3.99 liter German V8s.  And I don’t think there is any V8 demand there anyway.

And since Cadillac didn’t make rest drive crossovers like I have been saying they should do for years, there is no where to use this engine.

500k since 2014 model year.  The W222 chassis S-class passed 500k units last week. So we are talking about 80k a year which is pretty good at a $125k a unit.

Interesting, but still pretty low considering. For instance, GM sells 30-35K Vettes a year compared to Camaro or Malibu numbers in the 100's of thousands.  

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I had read they won’t use the Blackwing in the Escalade and I forget the reason but I think they should use it.  Hell I’d make it the standard engine offer a 500 hp tune base and a 600 hp tune for V.

4 minutes ago, USA-1 said:

Interesting, but still pretty low considering. For instance, GM sells 30-35K Vettes a year compared to Camaro or Malibu numbers in the 100's of thousands.  

And they probably make nearly zero profit on a Malibus and GM is going to lose money on every C8 under $80k.  The beancounters won’t let that go on long.

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38 minutes ago, USA-1 said:

Interesting, but still pretty low considering. For instance, GM sells 30-35K Vettes a year compared to Camaro or Malibu numbers in the 100's of thousands.  

Camaro and Malibu are likely gone in a few years...

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80k units per year in a $100,000+ vehicle is anything but low volume. That's 2-4 times what the Corvette sells and I think we all agree the Vette sells very well for it's price. 

46 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I had read they won’t use the Blackwing in the Escalade and I forget the reason but I think they should use it.  Hell I’d make it the standard engine offer a 500 hp tune base and a 600 hp tune for V.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/new-cadillac-escalade-ct5-v-no-blackwing-v8/

Costs. 

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20 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I bet CT6’s will be available for low prices on the used market, especially once production ends.

They can join the cheap ass priced S-Class cars which seem to sit and only move with huge incentives or into fleet sales.

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1 hour ago, dfelt said:

They can join the cheap ass priced S-Class cars which seem to sit and only move with huge incentives or into fleet sales.

They don't have any cash on the hoods, according to their website. They're all lease deals, FWIW. 

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7 hours ago, dfelt said:

RIP CT6, killed by GM's board room bean counters before your time really was up and not able to show what you could bring to the world globally.

RIP CT6

This truly keeps me in SUVs as the 4 & 5 are just too small.

This approach at GM is what could make my next auto purchase a non-gm product.

Like I said, Cadillac gave up on the luxury of size.

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1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

They don't have any cash on the hoods, according to their website. They're all lease deals, FWIW. 

MB has some sort of 'under the table' set-up where half the incentive is factory and the other half goes thru the dealer. At one point the factory was giving like 6K off, but the actual purchase price ended up being like 13K off (s-class).

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4 hours ago, balthazar said:

Has nothing to do with plant space: D-H is huge and BEV production will only be a 1-line trickle.

Don’t forget: the CT6 was rumored to die once before.

Oh I know D-HAM is huge, 4.1MM sq. ft. takes up real estate in two cities, hence the name.

It is interesting, because my Caddy dealer buddy said it isn't official from GM Corp. yet. They just had a meeting about it this morning. Let's hope they wake up in time!!

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17 minutes ago, USA-1 said:

You mean like this one? Was so freaking badass. Blackwing angry beast cold start. Just got back from driving it. No turbo lag at all pulls hard all the way to lets just say maybe triple digits swiftly haha. Paddle shifters are pretty sweet new 10 spd is butter smooth but quick, a lot of car for $100k. This dealer just got six in literally two weeks ago already sold three of them have eight more coming in at least two of those are pre-sold one is fully loaded Platinum with Super Cruise 2.0.

Wake up GM bean counters, people still want these cars if even just a limited build of the performance V Series line!

 

 

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In a world where everything is free, absolutely. Sat in a 3.6L a while back and loved the space it had and how everything was laid out. If not a Blackwing, a TT 3.0L AWD will do just fine. Maybe in a few years, they will come down to a price that might entice me.

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5 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

In a world where everything is free, absolutely. Sat in a 3.6L a while back and loved the space it had and how everything was laid out. If not a Blackwing, a TT 3.0L AWD will do just fine. Maybe in a few years, they will come down to a price that might entice me.

Yeah, the 3.0TT is very quick as well drove one back in 2016 when they first came out. CT6 as a whole drives like a much smaller car, but still feels commanding enough on the road, pretty amazing really.

Blackwing literally puts you back in the seat though, can definitely feel the G forces at work. Tom Good was the engine builder on this one, would tell him good work Mr. Good if I could. LOL!

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48 minutes ago, USA-1 said:

Yeah, the 3.0TT is very quick as well drove one back in 2016 when they first came out. CT6 as a whole drives like a much smaller car, but still feels commanding enough on the road, pretty amazing really.

Blackwing literally puts you back in the seat though, can definitely feel the G forces at work. Tom Good was the engine builder on this one, would tell him good work Mr. Good if I could. LOL!

I agree about the ride. The chassis is button down tight and could see that as a daily driver for many years. And I can only imagine the pull on that Blackwing. Again, maybe one day lol. 

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Now This is sad news.  I would LOVE to buy a CT6 (perhaps with the Blackwing V8) but it seems nobody wants to buy arguably the best Cadillac sedan in decades. I wonder why.

As for Mary Barra and the bean counters, I wonder who will replace this small minded leadership and actually Make GM Truly Great Again, as opposed to being small and timid.  Am I the only one who noticed that few people are PROUD to own a GM vehicle these days?  And then these PROUD owners would happily recommend to anyone they knew to buy a GM vehicle instead of the competition?

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10 hours ago, NINETY EIGHT REGENCY said:

I read about Holden this morning and now this. What is wrong with GM? They cannot get anything right, out on time , or be competitive. How did so a mighty storied company be cut down to what it is now? Killing those brands solved no problems. It exposed the many issues of GM. It left many countries globally too.  Buick is now an suv/crossover brand in the United States.  Cadillac after ten years is still not fixed. I guess the bigger issue is how do you fix all of GM?  What is wrong with GM? It is getting harder for enthusiasts to support GM. It is sad when you say "they make nothing for me".  Sad truth is... they do not.  I guess the enthusiast are not the the majority and we are the minority. Sad indeed....

Bottom line is the “old” GM died years ago...as is the “enthusiasts”. There are less and less car folk every year. We are a dying breed that finds driving more important than the entertainment. It’s not just GM, but we see it much more here. ....

Changing with the times is not going to be fun for us car folk...... 😞 

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25 minutes ago, riviera74 said:

Now This is sad news.  I would LOVE to buy a CT6 (perhaps with the Blackwing V8) but it seems nobody wants to buy arguably the best Cadillac sedan in decades. I wonder why.

As for Mary Barra and the bean counters, I wonder who will replace this small minded leadership and actually Make GM Truly Great Again, as opposed to being small and timid.  Am I the only one who noticed that few people are PROUD to own a GM vehicle these days?  And then these PROUD owners would happily recommend to anyone they knew to buy a GM vehicle instead of the competition?

Oh there's still plenty of life at GM the new C8 Corvette would reveal such and this isn't officially official yet from GM Corp. per my Caddy dealer friend. CT6 has been rumored to die a few times just in the last 6 months even. They just had a meeting this morning about it with GM so lets hope and pray the bean counters at least keep the Blackwing alive for an Escalade-V. It's not that nobody want to buy the CT6 or CT6-V because they do sell, it's just GM bean counters trying to find ways to cut costs, but they're just going about it completely the wrong way.

And there are still plenty of us proud GM owners out there. I have owned other makes and models and always come back to GM. I've had really good times growing up with Chevrolet trucks and cars and Pontiac cars and in this decade with Cadillac buying my first in 2013 (a CTS-V Coupe) so it's fully ingrained in my being. 💪🏻🇺🇸   

Edited by USA-1
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2 hours ago, riviera74 said:

Now This is sad news.  I would LOVE to buy a CT6 (perhaps with the Blackwing V8) but it seems nobody wants to buy arguably the best Cadillac sedan in decades. I wonder why.

As for Mary Barra and the bean counters, I wonder who will replace this small minded leadership and actually Make GM Truly Great Again, as opposed to being small and timid.  Am I the only one who noticed that few people are PROUD to own a GM vehicle these days?  And then these PROUD owners would happily recommend to anyone they knew to buy a GM vehicle instead of the competition?

GM leadership wants to get them to a mobility company where basically they can build self driving pods and sell rides.   It is more profitable business model to be in that direct to consumer sales model, although they aren't selling cars, they are selling rides.  And if it is a self driving pod that gets someone from home to work or home to the store and lets them play on their phone or sleep the whole time, it doesn't matter what it looks like or what the performance is.

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23 minutes ago, balthazar said:

I believe the CT6 volume eclipses both the 7-series and the A8, handily.
So much for 'it doesn't sell well'..... unless those other two "sell abysmally poorly".

Audi has sold anywhere from 15,000 to 40,000 A8s per year world wide over the past 10 years, lets call it like 25k per year average.  Probably comparable with CT6 in USA and China combined numbers.

But the big difference is the A8 is build on the Volkswagen MLB chassis which is also used for:

A4, A5, A6, A7, Q5, Q7, Q8, E-Tron, Bentley Flying Spur, Bentley Continental, Bentley Bentayga, VW Toureg, Porsche Cayenne, Porsche Macan and Lamborghini Urus.  

So what do all those sell in volume?  Has to be over 1 million units a year worldwide.

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28 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

GM leadership wants to get them to a mobility company where basically they can build self driving pods and sell rides.   It is more profitable business model to be in that direct to consumer sales model, although they aren't selling cars, they are selling rides.  And if it is a self driving pod that gets someone from home to work or home to the store and lets them play on their phone or sleep the whole time, it doesn't matter what it looks like or what the performance is.

That's not at all what they're doing right now. GM knows most people still want the freedom of having their own car. And what would the HUGE GM dealer franchise owners do when most are forced to shut down when they're not needed while operating on that model? Thousands of major lawsuits would ensue.

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1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

So what do all those sell in volume?  

People don’t know or care about platforms, and they don’t buy platforms; they buy completed vehicles.

CT6 -I believe- is handily outselling the audi & BMW in the USDM. You know; the market both you & I live in?

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So all this doomsday at Cadillac really get over it. GM is in the business to make money plain and simple.  The XT6 is beautiful in person.  Much better than any of the pics.  Lincoln's new Aviator won't sell anywhere near the XT6 amount and its actually kind of ugly like most Lincolns.  Nobody really cares about front or rear wheel drive in a SUV. Most probably just want AWD.  The new CT4 and CT5 are sharp looking in person.   Is GM doing stuff I scratch my head of course but at the same time they are making money. If the new Tahoe, Surburban, Yukon and Escalade are hits GM will be printing money with them.

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6 minutes ago, Guest said:

So all this doomsday at Cadillac really get over it. GM is in the business to make money plain and simple.  The XT6 is beautiful in person.  Much better than any of the pics.  Lincoln's new Aviator won't sell anywhere near the XT6 amount and its actually kind of ugly like most Lincolns.  Nobody really cares about front or rear wheel drive in a SUV. Most probably just want AWD.  The new CT4 and CT5 are sharp looking in person.   Is GM doing stuff I scratch my head of course but at the same time they are making money. If the new Tahoe, Surburban, Yukon and Escalade are hits GM will be printing money with them.

All companies are in the business to make money but what sets some of them apart is the non-stop bean counting yet still wasting money and R&D (see the money spent on developing the CT6). Furthermore, RWD or FWD, at least the Aviator has real engine options with power to boot. Lincoln has somehow done what Cadillac should have already been doing (and no I am not a fan of Lincoln or the Aviator). What’s the XT6 rocking bedsides being sat upon the wrong platform (again the bean counting by forgoing the Omega platform)? That 3.6L that’s in just about everything else GM makes? The point here is that you can make money and still act like you give a damn about the little things. GM has a mixed record with that, at best.

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1 hour ago, surreal1272 said:

All companies are in the business to make money but what sets some of them apart is the non-stop bean counting yet still wasting money and R&D (see the money spent on developing the CT6). Furthermore, RWD or FWD, at least the Aviator has real engine options with power to boot. Lincoln has somehow done what Cadillac should have already been doing (and no I am not a fan of Lincoln or the Aviator). What’s the XT6 rocking bedsides being sat upon the wrong platform (again the bean counting by forgoing the Omega platform)? That 3.6L that’s in just about everything else GM makes? The point here is that you can make money and still act like you give a damn about the little things. GM has a mixed record with that, at best.

+1,000,000 well said, as a GM fan and a Heavy Cadillac buyer, recently they have nothing to really excite me and while the CT6 Blackwing is exciting, before I can even see one in person and try it out, they appear to be killing it.

You hit the nail on the head surreal1272 that all businesses are in the business to make money, some just pay attention to the little details that actually make more money than playing politics and kissing ass.

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12 hours ago, balthazar said:

People don’t know or care about platforms, and they don’t buy platforms; they buy completed vehicles.

CT6 -I believe- is handily outselling the audi & BMW in the USDM. You know; the market both you & I live in?

But the cost is higher on CT6.  GM could be losing money on every one they build because there is no economies of scale.   The A8 isn’t adding any major development cost when a dozen cars are on that platform and those engines and transmissions are all shared.  

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2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

But the cost is higher on CT6.  GM could be losing money on every one they build because there is no economies of scale.   The A8 isn’t adding any major development cost when a dozen cars are on that platform and those engines and transmissions are all shared.  

That may be true on the CT6, but GM could solve that problem with a new RWD Impala/Caprice STAT, along with an upgraded Camaro.

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5 hours ago, smk4565 said:

But the cost is higher on CT6.  GM could be losing money on every one they build because there is no economies of scale.

Or, they could be making $10 grand or even $25 grand on average per car.

Edited by balthazar
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