Cadillac News: Cadillac CT6 DHam Production to End in January

[balthazar]

3 hours ago, USA-1 said:

It comes down to plant space and BEV3 is the big push now.  

Has nothing to do with plant space: D-H is huge and BEV production will only be a 1-line trickle.

Don’t forget: the CT6 was rumored to die once before.

[smk4565]

I bet CT6’s will be available for low prices on the used market, especially once production ends.

[David]

20 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I bet CT6’s will be available for low prices on the used market, especially once production ends.

They can join the cheap ass priced S-Class cars which seem to sit and only move with huge incentives or into fleet sales.

[ccap41]

1 hour ago, dfelt said:

They can join the cheap ass priced S-Class cars which seem to sit and only move with huge incentives or into fleet sales.

They don't have any cash on the hoods, according to their website. They're all lease deals, FWIW. 

[regfootball]

7 hours ago, dfelt said:

RIP CT6, killed by GM's board room bean counters before your time really was up and not able to show what you could bring to the world globally.

RIP CT6

This truly keeps me in SUVs as the 4 & 5 are just too small.

This approach at GM is what could make my next auto purchase a non-gm product.

Like I said, Cadillac gave up on the luxury of size.

[balthazar]

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

They don't have any cash on the hoods, according to their website. They're all lease deals, FWIW. 

MB has some sort of 'under the table' set-up where half the incentive is factory and the other half goes thru the dealer. At one point the factory was giving like 6K off, but the actual purchase price ended up being like 13K off (s-class).

[USA-1]

3 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

 Just give me a Blackwing CT6 and call it a day.

You mean like this one? Was so freaking badass. Blackwing angry beast cold start. Just got back from driving it. No turbo lag at all pulls hard all the way to lets just say maybe triple digits swiftly haha. Paddle shifters are pretty sweet new 10 spd is butter smooth but quick, a lot of car for $100k. This dealer just got six in literally two weeks ago already sold three of them have eight more coming in at least two of those are pre-sold one is fully loaded Platinum with Super Cruise 2.0.

Wake up GM bean counters, people still want these cars if even just a limited build of the performance V Series line!

 

[USA-1]

4 hours ago, balthazar said:

Has nothing to do with plant space: D-H is huge and BEV production will only be a 1-line trickle.

Don’t forget: the CT6 was rumored to die once before.

Oh I know D-HAM is huge, 4.1MM sq. ft. takes up real estate in two cities, hence the name.

It is interesting, because my Caddy dealer buddy said it isn't official from GM Corp. yet. They just had a meeting about it this morning. Let's hope they wake up in time!!

[surreal1272]

17 minutes ago, USA-1 said:

You mean like this one? Was so freaking badass. Blackwing angry beast cold start. Just got back from driving it. No turbo lag at all pulls hard all the way to lets just say maybe triple digits swiftly haha. Paddle shifters are pretty sweet new 10 spd is butter smooth but quick, a lot of car for $100k. This dealer just got six in literally two weeks ago already sold three of them have eight more coming in at least two of those are pre-sold one is fully loaded Platinum with Super Cruise 2.0.

Wake up GM bean counters, people still want these cars if even just a limited build of the performance V Series line!

 

 

In a world where everything is free, absolutely. Sat in a 3.6L a while back and loved the space it had and how everything was laid out. If not a Blackwing, a TT 3.0L AWD will do just fine. Maybe in a few years, they will come down to a price that might entice me.

[USA-1]

5 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

In a world where everything is free, absolutely. Sat in a 3.6L a while back and loved the space it had and how everything was laid out. If not a Blackwing, a TT 3.0L AWD will do just fine. Maybe in a few years, they will come down to a price that might entice me.

Yeah, the 3.0TT is very quick as well drove one back in 2016 when they first came out. CT6 as a whole drives like a much smaller car, but still feels commanding enough on the road, pretty amazing really.

Blackwing literally puts you back in the seat though, can definitely feel the G forces at work. Tom Good was the engine builder on this one, would tell him good work Mr. Good if I could. LOL!

[surreal1272]

48 minutes ago, USA-1 said:

Yeah, the 3.0TT is very quick as well drove one back in 2016 when they first came out. CT6 as a whole drives like a much smaller car, but still feels commanding enough on the road, pretty amazing really.

Blackwing literally puts you back in the seat though, can definitely feel the G forces at work. Tom Good was the engine builder on this one, would tell him good work Mr. Good if I could. LOL!

I agree about the ride. The chassis is button down tight and could see that as a daily driver for many years. And I can only imagine the pull on that Blackwing. Again, maybe one day lol. 

Edited December 6, 2019 by surreal1272

[riviera74]

Now This is sad news.  I would LOVE to buy a CT6 (perhaps with the Blackwing V8) but it seems nobody wants to buy arguably the best Cadillac sedan in decades. I wonder why.

As for Mary Barra and the bean counters, I wonder who will replace this small minded leadership and actually Make GM Truly Great Again, as opposed to being small and timid.  Am I the only one who noticed that few people are PROUD to own a GM vehicle these days?  And then these PROUD owners would happily recommend to anyone they knew to buy a GM vehicle instead of the competition?

[daves87rs]

10 hours ago, NINETY EIGHT REGENCY said:

I read about Holden this morning and now this. What is wrong with GM? They cannot get anything right, out on time , or be competitive. How did so a mighty storied company be cut down to what it is now? Killing those brands solved no problems. It exposed the many issues of GM. It left many countries globally too.  Buick is now an suv/crossover brand in the United States.  Cadillac after ten years is still not fixed. I guess the bigger issue is how do you fix all of GM?  What is wrong with GM? It is getting harder for enthusiasts to support GM. It is sad when you say "they make nothing for me".  Sad truth is... they do not.  I guess the enthusiast are not the the majority and we are the minority. Sad indeed....

Bottom line is the “old” GM died years ago...as is the “enthusiasts”. There are less and less car folk every year. We are a dying breed that finds driving more important than the entertainment. It’s not just GM, but we see it much more here. ....

Changing with the times is not going to be fun for us car folk...... 😞 

[USA-1]

25 minutes ago, riviera74 said:

Now This is sad news.  I would LOVE to buy a CT6 (perhaps with the Blackwing V8) but it seems nobody wants to buy arguably the best Cadillac sedan in decades. I wonder why.

As for Mary Barra and the bean counters, I wonder who will replace this small minded leadership and actually Make GM Truly Great Again, as opposed to being small and timid.  Am I the only one who noticed that few people are PROUD to own a GM vehicle these days?  And then these PROUD owners would happily recommend to anyone they knew to buy a GM vehicle instead of the competition?

Oh there's still plenty of life at GM the new C8 Corvette would reveal such and this isn't officially official yet from GM Corp. per my Caddy dealer friend. CT6 has been rumored to die a few times just in the last 6 months even. They just had a meeting this morning about it with GM so lets hope and pray the bean counters at least keep the Blackwing alive for an Escalade-V. It's not that nobody want to buy the CT6 or CT6-V because they do sell, it's just GM bean counters trying to find ways to cut costs, but they're just going about it completely the wrong way.

And there are still plenty of us proud GM owners out there. I have owned other makes and models and always come back to GM. I've had really good times growing up with Chevrolet trucks and cars and Pontiac cars and in this decade with Cadillac buying my first in 2013 (a CTS-V Coupe) so it's fully ingrained in my being. 💪🏻🇺🇸   

Edited December 6, 2019 by USA-1

[balthazar]

I believe the CT6 volume eclipses both the 7-series and the A8, handily.
So much for 'it doesn't sell well'..... unless those other two "sell abysmally poorly".

[smk4565]

2 hours ago, riviera74 said:

Now This is sad news.  I would LOVE to buy a CT6 (perhaps with the Blackwing V8) but it seems nobody wants to buy arguably the best Cadillac sedan in decades. I wonder why.

As for Mary Barra and the bean counters, I wonder who will replace this small minded leadership and actually Make GM Truly Great Again, as opposed to being small and timid.  Am I the only one who noticed that few people are PROUD to own a GM vehicle these days?  And then these PROUD owners would happily recommend to anyone they knew to buy a GM vehicle instead of the competition?

GM leadership wants to get them to a mobility company where basically they can build self driving pods and sell rides.   It is more profitable business model to be in that direct to consumer sales model, although they aren't selling cars, they are selling rides.  And if it is a self driving pod that gets someone from home to work or home to the store and lets them play on their phone or sleep the whole time, it doesn't matter what it looks like or what the performance is.

[smk4565]

23 minutes ago, balthazar said:

I believe the CT6 volume eclipses both the 7-series and the A8, handily.
So much for 'it doesn't sell well'..... unless those other two "sell abysmally poorly".

Audi has sold anywhere from 15,000 to 40,000 A8s per year world wide over the past 10 years, lets call it like 25k per year average.  Probably comparable with CT6 in USA and China combined numbers.

But the big difference is the A8 is build on the Volkswagen MLB chassis which is also used for:

A4, A5, A6, A7, Q5, Q7, Q8, E-Tron, Bentley Flying Spur, Bentley Continental, Bentley Bentayga, VW Toureg, Porsche Cayenne, Porsche Macan and Lamborghini Urus.  

So what do all those sell in volume?  Has to be over 1 million units a year worldwide.

[USA-1]

28 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

GM leadership wants to get them to a mobility company where basically they can build self driving pods and sell rides.   It is more profitable business model to be in that direct to consumer sales model, although they aren't selling cars, they are selling rides.  And if it is a self driving pod that gets someone from home to work or home to the store and lets them play on their phone or sleep the whole time, it doesn't matter what it looks like or what the performance is.

That's not at all what they're doing right now. GM knows most people still want the freedom of having their own car. And what would the HUGE GM dealer franchise owners do when most are forced to shut down when they're not needed while operating on that model? Thousands of major lawsuits would ensue.

Edited December 6, 2019 by USA-1

[balthazar]

1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

So what do all those sell in volume?  

People don’t know or care about platforms, and they don’t buy platforms; they buy completed vehicles.

CT6 -I believe- is handily outselling the audi & BMW in the USDM. You know; the market both you & I live in?

[Guest]

So all this doomsday at Cadillac really get over it. GM is in the business to make money plain and simple.  The XT6 is beautiful in person.  Much better than any of the pics.  Lincoln's new Aviator won't sell anywhere near the XT6 amount and its actually kind of ugly like most Lincolns.  Nobody really cares about front or rear wheel drive in a SUV. Most probably just want AWD.  The new CT4 and CT5 are sharp looking in person.   Is GM doing stuff I scratch my head of course but at the same time they are making money. If the new Tahoe, Surburban, Yukon and Escalade are hits GM will be printing money with them.

[surreal1272]

6 minutes ago, Guest said:

So all this doomsday at Cadillac really get over it. GM is in the business to make money plain and simple.  The XT6 is beautiful in person.  Much better than any of the pics.  Lincoln's new Aviator won't sell anywhere near the XT6 amount and its actually kind of ugly like most Lincolns.  Nobody really cares about front or rear wheel drive in a SUV. Most probably just want AWD.  The new CT4 and CT5 are sharp looking in person.   Is GM doing stuff I scratch my head of course but at the same time they are making money. If the new Tahoe, Surburban, Yukon and Escalade are hits GM will be printing money with them.

All companies are in the business to make money but what sets some of them apart is the non-stop bean counting yet still wasting money and R&D (see the money spent on developing the CT6). Furthermore, RWD or FWD, at least the Aviator has real engine options with power to boot. Lincoln has somehow done what Cadillac should have already been doing (and no I am not a fan of Lincoln or the Aviator). What’s the XT6 rocking bedsides being sat upon the wrong platform (again the bean counting by forgoing the Omega platform)? That 3.6L that’s in just about everything else GM makes? The point here is that you can make money and still act like you give a damn about the little things. GM has a mixed record with that, at best.

[David]

1 hour ago, surreal1272 said:

All companies are in the business to make money but what sets some of them apart is the non-stop bean counting yet still wasting money and R&D (see the money spent on developing the CT6). Furthermore, RWD or FWD, at least the Aviator has real engine options with power to boot. Lincoln has somehow done what Cadillac should have already been doing (and no I am not a fan of Lincoln or the Aviator). What’s the XT6 rocking bedsides being sat upon the wrong platform (again the bean counting by forgoing the Omega platform)? That 3.6L that’s in just about everything else GM makes? The point here is that you can make money and still act like you give a damn about the little things. GM has a mixed record with that, at best.

+1,000,000 well said, as a GM fan and a Heavy Cadillac buyer, recently they have nothing to really excite me and while the CT6 Blackwing is exciting, before I can even see one in person and try it out, they appear to be killing it.

You hit the nail on the head surreal1272 that all businesses are in the business to make money, some just pay attention to the little details that actually make more money than playing politics and kissing ass.

[smk4565]

12 hours ago, balthazar said:

People don’t know or care about platforms, and they don’t buy platforms; they buy completed vehicles.

CT6 -I believe- is handily outselling the audi & BMW in the USDM. You know; the market both you & I live in?

But the cost is higher on CT6.  GM could be losing money on every one they build because there is no economies of scale.   The A8 isn’t adding any major development cost when a dozen cars are on that platform and those engines and transmissions are all shared.  

[riviera74]

2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

But the cost is higher on CT6.  GM could be losing money on every one they build because there is no economies of scale.   The A8 isn’t adding any major development cost when a dozen cars are on that platform and those engines and transmissions are all shared.  

That may be true on the CT6, but GM could solve that problem with a new RWD Impala/Caprice STAT, along with an upgraded Camaro.

[balthazar]

5 hours ago, smk4565 said:

But the cost is higher on CT6.  GM could be losing money on every one they build because there is no economies of scale.

Or, they could be making $10 grand or even $25 grand on average per car.

Edited December 6, 2019 by balthazar

[David]

GM could be thinking that if they need cars in the future, they could bring them back quickly from China.

My gut tells me that the BEV3 platform very well could support a wide range of EV cars as well as CUVs and trucks.

[ocnblu]

10 minutes ago, dfelt said:

GM could be thinking that if they need cars in the future, they could bring them back quickly from China.

My gut tells me that the BEV3 platform very well could support a wide range of EV cars as well as CUVs and trucks.

Doesn't matter how wide the range of EV models is... ppl are still indifferent to them.  Or even downright rude.

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

Or, they could be making $10 grand or even $25 grand on average per car.

If they had $10k margin they wouldn't be killing the car.  That is pickup truck margin because they have 1 platform for Silverado, Sierra, Tahoe, Yukon, Suburban, Escalade and high price tags to go with the volume.

[smk4565]

3 hours ago, riviera74 said:

That may be true on the CT6, but GM could solve that problem with a new RWD Impala/Caprice STAT, along with an upgraded Camaro.

Except none of those are SUVs. Something like 70% of the market is SUV/truck and probably more for American car companies.  Camaro sales are tanking, Impala and all the other large sedans are tanking.  

Cadillac should be building blacking V8 SUVs, that would outsell any V8 powered sedan they could come up with. 

[David]

28 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

Doesn't matter how wide the range of EV models is... ppl are still indifferent to them.  Or even downright rude.

I will as you expected DISAGREE with you as a wide range of options is EXACTLY what is Missing. More people are wanting less maintenance and easier fueling than you think, the options are just not there yet. It will be and I suspect we will see great strides in EV sales in 2023 as more EV options come online.

[oldshurst442]

1 hour ago, ocnblu said:

Doesn't matter how wide the range of EV models is... ppl are still indifferent to them.  Or even downright rude.

 

44 minutes ago, dfelt said:

I will as you expected DISAGREE with you as a wide range of options is EXACTLY what is Missing. More people are wanting less maintenance and easier fueling than you think, the options are just not there yet. It will be and I suspect we will see great strides in EV sales in 2023 as more EV options come online.

What Dfelt said...

And people are NOT indifferent to EVs in MY neck of the woods.

I said about 8 months ago that I see 5 different Tesla Model 3s each and every day here.  

Well, 8 months later, like as of now, that figure went up. I see at least 7-8 DIFFERENT Model 3s each and every day on a SHORT commute to work. And no, the Tesla store is no where near where I live and work. There is only one Tesla store in case you are asking...

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Back to the thread...but with an EV flavour.

I think GM is cutting all these sedans because so they could focus full force on bringing out EVs.  Barra said that she wants GM to be the world's leader in EVs...

The 2.3 billion dollar venture with LG Chem  and a creation of 1100 jobs while closing down ICE factories and laying off ICE workers should signal to all of us what is going on with GM...

Killing off the CT6, waisting billions on it and the Blackwing while telling us that the Blackwing costs money is just a smoke screen.   

I think, they are killing the Blackwing NOT because it costs money...I think GM brass want to distance Cadillac from the internal combustion engine as much as they can.  The Blackwing is a start. Its a "gas guzzling V8". It does not look good with PR with EV sheeple to have a brand new gas guzzling V8 in the stable when in a couple of years, an onslaught of Cadillac EVs are gonna launch... 

I have come to this conclusion after reading comments from product launches from GM.  The C8 and the Blackwing CT6. Also Autoline Detroit...

There are MANY comments made by EV trolls, that diss the V8s...or even the rotary engine.

They say all kinds of dumb things such as "why invest in ICE when electrics are the future?"

Or 

"dino tech that sucks gas  spews emissions"

Or

"0-60 in xx seconds, quarter mile yy seconds?  HA!  Stuopid GM for wasting billions on outdated technology...Telsa Model XYZ is faster...blah blah blah..."

 

My personal opinion is this...

Its a damned shame that GM spent billions to finally create a SEDAN worthy of the Cadillac badge, (big, brawny, V8, RWD sedan) only to kill it, yet again with this pattern, only to invest billions more on something that may be just a pipe dream, because even though in MY neck of the woods, people seems to want EVs, there are other woods dar from where I am, that are dead set against EVs...

And Cadillac, whether Barra wants Cadillac to be a leader in EVs, and I have no doubt that Cadillac can and WILL produce something to embarrass Tesla and now the Mustang Mach-E, Cadillac is STILL all about the big badass V8 car.  The Blackwing is that...   

 

 

 

 

Edited December 7, 2019 by oldshurst442

[ocnblu]

say what

[David]

@oldshurst442 +1,000,000

I also have been doing some serious sole searching in regards to the Blackwing, the loss of an Escalade V and why oh why is GM doing this when they do not have an EV out yet to challenge Tesla or anyone else.

Building space so that upon the Escalade EV V and others, they will be considered by those that are already thinking Green or have already thought green but are not buying as what they want is not there. 

EV's I suspect will do a Hockey Stick Sales spike once choices are available. Seems 2023 is going to be the big year to prove me right or wrong.

[oldshurst442]

Just now, ocnblu said:

say what

Many corporations today, rely on shytty social media and even shyttier comment sections (I have come to an understanding, corporations have been doing this kind of marketing for at least a decade now...) to see where public perception is heading...)

Focus groups and internet comment sections seem to direct CEOs nowadays on what and how products are to be launched...

Its just a theory that I have.

Oh...I KNOW that corporations have social media marketing personnel on their payroll...and I also know that they rely on the internet for data...

GM on the C8 for instance, when they launched the C8 in July, Tadge DID mention how that online reveal had a million views, or whatever the figure was and how for the days following, the Chevy website nearly crashed because they had a record amount of visitors playing with the C8 price build...

So its kinda logical that these internet marketing people also look at the comments sections to get a feel of what folk are saying about GM's image and the C8 and V8s and EVs and shyte!!! 

Call me crazy, but I KNOW I am unto something...

[surreal1272]

14 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

say what

Reading is fundamental. Not understanding why  EVs could possibly succeed is just mental. 

[riviera74]

2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Except none of those are SUVs. Something like 70% of the market is SUV/truck and probably more for American car companies.  Camaro sales are tanking, Impala and all the other large sedans are tanking.  

Cadillac should be building blacking V8 SUVs, that would outsell any V8 powered sedan they could come up with. 

They already have a V8 powered SUV.  Now if you want to make the case that the BlackWing V8 belongs in an Escalade, be my guest.

[David]

8 minutes ago, riviera74 said:

They already have a V8 powered SUV.  Now if you want to make the case that the BlackWing V8 belongs in an Escalade, be my guest.

As much as SMK thinks everything needs to be turbo'd and dual over head cams, etc. etc. etc. GM could if they really wanted to just drop in their lovely supercharged V8 into the Escalade and call it a V and be done for the day. People would pay a decent $25K more for a current Escalade with that motor and have it called a V.

[balthazar]

3 hours ago, smk4565 said:

If they had $10k margin they wouldn't be killing the car.  That is pickup truck margin because they have 1 platform for Silverado, Sierra, Tahoe, Yukon, Suburban, Escalade and high price tags to go with the volume.

Pick-ups don't have platforms, and BTW; there are far more chassis’ under the Silverado than any car or SUV.

3 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Something like 70% of the market is SUV/truck and probably more for American car companies.

Nope- foreign brands are just as heavily weighted. Porsche is 72% SUVs by volume.

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, dfelt said:

As much as SMK thinks everything needs to be turbo'd and dual over head cams, etc. etc. etc. GM could if they really wanted to just drop in their lovely supercharged V8 into the Escalade and call it a V and be done for the day. People would pay a decent $25K more for a current Escalade with that motor and have it called a V.

Should have done an Escalade-V years ago.  FCA sells garbage with a Hellcat engine for $75k or whatever they cost.  What would otherwise be fleet sale rental cars sold for nearly triple the price.  Cadillac could easily get $125k for an Escalade-V and all they would have to do is put on a supercharger, bigger brakes, beef up the suspension, and add some trim or  V badges to spice it up.   
 

I also think Cadillac could put a Blackwing V8 in an SUV the size and weight of an XT5.  
 

1 hour ago, riviera74 said:

They already have a V8 powered SUV.  Now if you want to make the case that the BlackWing V8 belongs in an Escalade, be my guest.

A slow V8 powered SUV.  Cadillac should have at least 1 SUV that is sub 4 second 0-60 and probably should have 2 but they won’t attract enough buyers anyway so 1 will do the job.

[smk4565]

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

Pick-ups don't have platforms, and BTW; there are far more chassis’ under the Silverado than any car or SUV.

Nope- foreign brands are just as heavily weighted. Porsche is 72% SUVs by volume.

Chassis, platform, architecture, whatever you want to call the mechanical running gear.  That is the expensive part, you need to spread that around and CT6 doesn’t have that luxury.

Lamborghini is over 50% SUV at this point, it is ridiculous it that is the way it is now.  That is why Cadillac should have been building Omega platform SUVs rather than a full size sedan with a turbo 4 engine CT6 that was doomed to fail from the start.

[daves87rs]

14 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

All companies are in the business to make money but what sets some of them apart is the non-stop bean counting yet still wasting money and R&D (see the money spent on developing the CT6). Furthermore, RWD or FWD, at least the Aviator has real engine options with power to boot. Lincoln has somehow done what Cadillac should have already been doing (and no I am not a fan of Lincoln or the Aviator). What’s the XT6 rocking bedsides being sat upon the wrong platform (again the bean counting by forgoing the Omega platform)? That 3.6L that’s in just about everything else GM makes? The point here is that you can make money and still act like you give a damn about the little things. GM has a mixed record with that, at best.

Damn True.

GM decides things on the fly like a hooker on Saturday night...... 😮 

[balthazar]

I for one would like to see what ultimately happens with the CT6; Cadillac only announced its production at D-H would end, and they’ve moved a model lines’ production to another plant before. 

I would immediately have voted to not do the CT4 and put the CT5 & 6 together in LGR. And there’s room for all 3 lines at LGR as it is ( nevermind there being room at D-H).

CT6 has been a great success in it’s segment, after a long break of Cadillac not fielding a model there. 

In some months, audi can only sell about 120 A8’s, and that model’s been around for decades.

Edited December 7, 2019 by balthazar

[smk4565]

Cadillac sold 17,200 CT6 in China last year.  So question is if that is enough to keep production going, and build another 10,000 or so there to export to the USA.   I don't know that 30,000 units a year is enough to support a platform, in fact I am pretty certain that it isn't.  We aren't talking about exotic car pricing here where low volume is okay.

[balthazar]

Dozens of unique vehicles sell less than 30K per year. Volume is immaterial, profit is the prime consideration. But even then:
Luckily, Cadillac, and in turn; General Motors, produces dozen & dozens & dozens of other models.

Tesla only builds like 11K Model S per year. Course; they don't make a profit... but they're still building the thing.

We've read some wags claim that 'Chevy doesn't make any money; too many low margin models' and 'Buick sales are slowing every year; it can't be making a profit' and 'Cadillac doesn't sell 2 million units/year; therefore they can't be making a profit'.

Solid, disconnected thinking there, that.

Gee, I don't think GMC is making $11 billion in profit all by itself.

Edited December 7, 2019 by balthazar

[oldshurst442]

Its gots to be all those residual checks that GM cashes in from movie royalties...

The Chevy Suburban just got its Hollywood Walk of Fame Star a couple of days ago....

It is said that the Suburban has had a 60 year career and been in over 1750 movies...so...11 billion dollars/per year profit

 

 The year GM went bankrupt, there was a conspiracy against GM and Hollywood stopped re-running  Smokey and the Bandit, The A-Team, Knight Rider...

 

[regfootball]

seeing the article on the internet about finding an old unconfiscated EV1 and relearning what GM did to crush all the EV1's, 

and seeing how Tesla has cornered a good chunk of the EV market now for itself without GM getting serious about creating a real competition to the Tesla products (when they could easily have wiped Teslas ass off the floor had they invested some real product dollars into EV...)

and seeing how politically EV's seem to be well received as saviors when really there are plenty of ill side effects for the idea of EV mass propulsion (not to mention no useful or convenient infrastructure)

and seeing how GM's electric cars are always small or niche models (Volt, Bolt, ELR, pickup hybrids, CT6)

this talk of Cadillac going deep into EV's is all just a smokescreen.  A smokescreen to cover for why they didn't invest in new competitive products in the Johan era.  Truth is Cadillac is caught with their pants down, and like the rest of GM wants to appear green, on top of technology, and want to somehow be in the EV mix, at least in terms of social media buzz.

so back to the EV1....that was the 90's already.  A quarter decade and GM has still not nor has plans to produce any significant game changing EV that will be adopted by the car buying public en masse, that is affordable for many, and in 50 years will serve as a bellweather in the sales of vehicles in this world and nation.  A point that your kids, when they are grandkids can say, "My parents had the Model T electric" (you get what i mean when i say that).  

Really all the manufacturers, none have taken EV out of social media curiosity or low volume high price lux car sales and smashed the mainstream barrier to truly change and create a demand for what we drive in America and the world to push for real everyday EV's.  Sure, we have Prius and Leaf etc.  But the Mustang Mach E might be the only vehicle that really represents something that might impact the future.

I mean, global oil still has pull, right?   That's partly why we still drive oil mostly.  And battery tech is still for the few for the cost it is.  Mining is an issue.  Power grid investment is an issue.  Electric power tends to be controlled by government and utility cartels, electric power buying and selling really will never be much of a capitalistic ritual of a free market.  That is a huge problem.

I filled my car with 300 miles of range in about 120 seconds the other day at Costco.  I still don't see matching that feat any time in the next 20 years where you literally can pick any station everywhere and do that.

I don't see any of GM including Cadillac coming to market with a game changing EV or line of EV's within 5-10 years yet.  It's all bullshit.  GM could wipe the industry's ass if they wanted to but they won't.  Cadillac's dealer base needs revenue and customers to keep their doors open.  They won't risk it by changing their whole product line to EV nor should they.  So please, apart from one or two models that may hit and sell a few each year to be cute, please do not believe the crap about GM or Cadillac being a huge EV company.

So in the meantime, build those Blackwing v8's and turbo 6's and stuff them in as many Cadillacs as you can.  That is where you can still make bank.  Along with real passenger and cargo space.  ANd flip your middle finger to the feds in the process and their regulations.

[smk4565]

Well Tesla outsells Cadillac so maybe EV isn’t such a bad idea.  And Model 3 performance is faster than a Blackwing V8.

Edited December 8, 2019 by smk4565

[balthazar]

It's the only one that really does sell decently (well; the model 3), but since it makes no money, it's a shame they've come this far but are going to have to close the corporation down.

[ocnblu]

3 hours ago, balthazar said:

it's a shame

Oh it's so turrible

[smk4565]

I love when American car lovers root for an American car company that actually builds cars in America to fail, while still cheering on the "American" car companies that are shipping production to Mexico and China.