Vaccine discussion

[Robert Hall]

32 minutes ago, balthazar said:

I don't think laughing at people dying is something to boast about.

I'm not laughing about them, but can't feel sorry or sad for them, they brought it on themselves with their stupidity.   Looking at that specific list, it's all idiots...

[surreal1272]

2 hours ago, balthazar said:

If you look at countries around the world, the U.S. certainly is not in '3rd world' territory AFA vaccination rate. 76% is right with Germany, Austria, the Netherlands, the UK, France, Japan, etc. 

I have read hundreds of comments on a specific O/T subject from around the world, and it can be surprising how ignorant some folk from other countries' impressions of the U.S. are.

Another unrelated comment I remember reading was a visitor from Europe was visiting friends in NY, and wanted to know if they could drive and see the Pacific Ocean one day.

Ignorance is well distributed, globally-speaking.  

You sure about that rate? We are nine points behind Germany at 64%, not 76%. That 76% figure is for first dose only. Germany sits at 73% full vaccination rate. 
 

Edited January 25, 2022 by surreal1272

[Robert Hall]

Yeah, and there are many states that don’t even have 50% with at least one dose.  

[balthazar]

I used a site (which I can't find in my history) which listed all the countries in the worlds' at least 1 dose percentage.  Apples to apples.  The range of the countries I listed were within a 10-percentage point range, or very similar. Yes, I'm sure about it.

[surreal1272]

11 minutes ago, balthazar said:

I used a site (which I can't find in my history) which listed all the countries in the worlds' at least 1 dose percentage.  Apples to apples.  The range of the countries I listed were within a 10-percentage point range, or very similar. Yes, I'm sure about it.

Then you didn't look at the right numbers if you're saying that the U.S. is on par with countries like Germany. Last time I checked, 73>64 (full vaccination) making that not an apples to apples comparison. First dose doesn't mean squat.

Edited January 26, 2022 by surreal1272

[Robert Hall]

1 minute ago, surreal1272 said:

Then you didn't look at the right numbers if you're saying that the U.S. is on par with countries like Germany. Last time I checked, 73>64 (full vaccination) making that not an apples to apples comparison 

Math. 

[Robert Hall]

6 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Then you didn't look at the right numbers if you're saying that the U.S. is on par with countries like Germany. Last time I checked, 73>64 (full vaccination) making that not an apples to apples comparison 

Math. 

Here is another site, around the same percentage for 1 dose in the US nationally.    This has a breakdown for 1 dose, fully vaccinated, and booster shot state by state... too many states with low percentages.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1202065/population-with-covid-vaccine-by-state-us/

[balthazar]

Like I said, I used apples-to-apples 1-dose only numbers. It's what I happened to click into to get a sense of comparison.

State numbers is another metric, but I addressed a comment about the country as a whole, not a comment about individual states. Apples, again.

This site shows the following (click to see all countries listed) : 
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

Here's a snapshot of what I quoted, for those who might believe it was either erroneous (not within a 10% point range for 1 dose) or agenda-driven (for some reason).  

[David]

2 hours ago, balthazar said:

I don't think laughing at people dying is something to boast about.

Sorry it was not clear enough as the funny was the web site posting it. I have since clarified it.

[balthazar]

At this point, if you got your first & 2nd shot in the spring of '20, it's pretty much ineffectual for you, so the focus as far as effectively vaccinated goes (if one wants to talk about that instead), should be on the 3rd shot. 

[David]

8 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Like I said, I used apples-to-apples 1-dose only numbers. It's what I happened to click into to get a sense of comparison.

State numbers is another metric, but I addressed a comment about the country as a whole, not a comment about individual states. Apples, again.

This site shows the following (click to see all countries listed) : 
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

Here's a snapshot of what I quoted, for those who might believe it was either erroneous (not within a 10% point range for 1 dose) or agenda-driven (for some reason).  

No matter how we look at it be boosted, fully vaccinated only or 1 dose, the U.S. is FAILING at leading the World. So many places are doing a better job than here in the US. Sad that due to ignorance, lack of common sense, how ever you want to state it, be they educated or uneducated, the unvaccinated are hurting this country more than helping.

The other issue is the people that are now complaining about not being able to work cause companies are forcing vaccination on them.

This is an issue that again shows their ignorance as a private company can decide if they want vaccinated or unvaccinated employees. If a person wants to work, then getting vaccinated so it is not a limit in job application is a no brainer.

5 minutes ago, balthazar said:

At this point, if you got your first & 2nd shot in the spring of '20, it's pretty much ineffectual for you, so the focus as far as effectively vaccinated goes (if one wants to talk about that instead), should be on the 3rd shot. 

Agree, at this point the comparison should be boosted citizens in the world.

Based on Booster, then Chile is leading the world and the US is in 12th place.

[David]

This is sad that a Nurse gets infected with Covid and dies 12hrs later. 

It 'Went Downhill Extremely Fast': Nurse Dies 12 Hours After Testing Positive for COVID (msn.com)

They do not state if he was vaccinated or not since Florida does not require it, but he did have heart issues and the Covid attacked his heart issue and killed him.

Update: According to this story it would seem he was unvaccinated and got the vaccine once he was diagnosed having Covid.

It ‘Went Downhill Extremely Fast’: Nurse Vaccinated & Died 12 Hrs After Testing Positive W/COVID-19 – Nats News (nataliekeshing.com)

[balthazar]

This is the source I referenced the first time, in case anyone wanted to see :
https://graphics.reuters.com/world-coronavirus-tracker-and-maps/vaccination-rollout-and-access/

No vested interest, not promoting it, not saying it's the best, just posting a source.

- - - - -

2 hours ago, David said:

No matter how we look at it be boosted, fully vaccinated only or 1 dose, the U.S. is FAILING at leading the World.

It's actually Gibraltar who is apparently "leading the world" (whatever that outmoded concept may mean). They have a population of 33,675 and the BBC puts them at the top of the list with "121%" fully vaccinated".  Or - assuming there's something amiss with a percentage over 100 - it's Pitcairn, whom 100% of it's [67] people are vaccinated.

If anyone thinks telling someone who doesn't want to get the vaccine that -say- 'Cuba had a higher rate than the U.S.' is going to do jack squat; boy are they going to be disappointed.

[trinacriabob]

6 hours ago, balthazar said:

Another unrelated comment I remember reading was a visitor from Europe was visiting friends in NY, and wanted to know if they could drive and see the Pacific Ocean one day.

Ignorance is well distributed, globally-speaking.  

It is.  And some stupid people are insufferable.  The "don't know how much they don't know" crowd can be more hostile and more argumentative because they don't have facts.  They don't want dialogue that involves exchanging information.

We have an example of similar idiocy in my very family.  One uncle came over from Europe to visit us on the West Coast.  He is/was the biggest douche bag of the many siblings on one parental side.  When he got to California, he stated what he wanted to see and said that he wanted to see Niagara Falls.  That meant he had no concept of scale.  I told him that that was like going from Lisbon to Eastern Europe.

My parents also picked up the tab for him, and his wife, to fly to the Pacific Northwest and to San Francisco during this trip.  He was a pill on both trips.  He wanted to see one of the bridges, so I took the rental car with all of us onto the Bay Bridge because it was cheaper.  He went ballistic.  First, you don't just "ascend" onto the bridge deck.  You have to find the on-ramps in S.F.  Then, when you get to the other side, you're in Oakland.  I didn't get off the freeway because I didn't know and didn't want to experiment with Oakland.  So I went further out to a nicer suburb with a full interchange to drive us back to the city.  During this prolongation, he kept yelling.

3 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

Then you didn't look at the right numbers if you're saying that the U.S. is on par with countries like Germany. Last time I checked, 73>64 (full vaccination) making that not an apples to apples comparison. First dose doesn't mean squat.

Of the countries in Europe I keep up with, I knew Portugal leads in vaccination efforts.  That's impressive for a smaller and not particularly rich European country.  Spain (which I don't see on this graphic) would be behind them, and ahead of Italy and France.  France has seen their own "don't tread on me" demonstrations in their streets.

5 hours ago, balthazar said:

I don't think laughing at people dying is something to boast about.

It's not.  But some people make us shake our heads.

On my homepage were some links about some guy named Doug Kuzma.  It turns out he has/had a podcast where he touted the typical packaging of the anti-vax crowd.  His platform was called FROG network.  I thought that maybe he liked amphibians ... or was poking fun at the French.  FROG means "Fully Rely On God."  A person from this group posted that Doug needed "heavy, heavy" prayers.  He was only 61 and now on a ventilator, unconscious.  The first thing that came to mind was the adage that "God helps those who helps themselves."  He was pushing those drugs we've heard about that start with "i" and "hydro" as an alternative to the vaccine.  If you heard this guy, I doubt his critical thinking skills in the realms of science and practical topics were that developed.  A few days later, I found out he didn't make it.

You just shrug.

[Drew Dowdell]

18 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

You sure about that rate? We are nine points behind Germany at 64%, not 76%. That 76% figure is for first dose only. Germany sits at 73% full vaccination rate. 
 

 

We also need a new definition of "fully vaccinated". It needs to include being boosted as well. With Omicron, some people who are fully vaccinated under the current definition are still ending up in hospitals (much to the glee of a certain group), but those who are boosted are largely not. 

"fully vaxxed" probably needs to mean "both shots plus a booster in the last 6 months or less".  I'm assuming I'll need another booster in May. 

[David]

This is a sad statistic!
Omicron Deaths in U.S. Exceed Delta's Peak (msn.com)

Another sad loss of life due to ignorance about Vaccines.
‘NCIS’ Actor Who Decried Vaccine Dies of COVID Complications (msn.com)

 

[ccap41]

Much to nobody's surprise, I finally caught the covid last week. 

Tuesday-Thursday I had on and off body aches also with an on and off mild fever. Waking up in the morning was definitely the worst and as I took medicine and vitamins throughout the day I felt better each day but woke up feeling pretty crappy. For the most part I didn't have a cough but i wouldn't say it was completely nonexistent. No loss of taste or smell.

Thursday night and all Friday was the worst as my body felt much better but for whatever reason my throat was killing me. It was extremely sore and talking or drinking hurt. I wouldn't say I'm 100% today but I'm a good 90% with a tiny cough and my throat is still a little sore.

Much to EVERYBODY'S surprise though, I wasn't hospitalized nor did I die. 

[David]

2 hours ago, ccap41 said:

Much to nobody's surprise, I finally caught the covid last week. 

Tuesday-Thursday I had on and off body aches also with an on and off mild fever. Waking up in the morning was definitely the worst and as I took medicine and vitamins throughout the day, I felt better each day but woke up feeling pretty crappy. For the most part I didn't have a cough but i wouldn't say it was completely nonexistent. No loss of taste or smell.

Thursday night and all Friday was the worst as my body felt much better but for whatever reason my throat was killing me. It was extremely sore and talking or drinking hurt. I wouldn't say I'm 100% today but I'm a good 90% with a tiny cough and my throat is still a little sore.

Much to EVERYBODY'S surprise though, I wasn't hospitalized, nor did I die. 

So glad you did not end up in the Hospital. I also very thankful you are feeling better. I truly hope you do not get any of the long-lasting effects that are being looked into by the medical community to better understand why some and strongly woman is heavily affected with long term affects.

Did your testing tell you which version of Covid you got?

Thank you for sharing and wishing you all the best as you recover.

[Drew Dowdell]

2 hours ago, ccap41 said:

Much to nobody's surprise, I finally caught the covid last week. 

Tuesday-Thursday I had on and off body aches also with an on and off mild fever. Waking up in the morning was definitely the worst and as I took medicine and vitamins throughout the day I felt better each day but woke up feeling pretty crappy. For the most part I didn't have a cough but i wouldn't say it was completely nonexistent. No loss of taste or smell.

Thursday night and all Friday was the worst as my body felt much better but for whatever reason my throat was killing me. It was extremely sore and talking or drinking hurt. I wouldn't say I'm 100% today but I'm a good 90% with a tiny cough and my throat is still a little sore.

Much to EVERYBODY'S surprise though, I wasn't hospitalized nor did I die. 

I'm glad you're okay. No one is surprised you weren't hospitalized and we're glad it didn't happen. You didn't seem to have any co-morbidities. But even what you went through might have been avoided entirely. 

[ccap41]

1 hour ago, David said:

Did your testing tell you which version of Covid you got?

My doctor did not specify what strand I had. I should have asked. 

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

You didn't seem to have any co-morbidities

My exact reasoning for not feeling the need to get covid-vaxxed. 

One friend (unknowingly) spread this to three of us. Both of my other friends were vaccinated and at least one booster. All three of us were sick. None of us were bad beyond 3-4 days. 

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

But even what you went through might have been avoided entirely. 

That's my issue with the covid vaccines, there's no guarantee. 

Edited January 31, 2022 by ccap41

[David]

Glad to see that the medical community is watching and digging into what is causing the long term affects for those that do not fully recover.

Omicron amps up concerns about long COVID and its causes - ABC News (go.com)

This is how long your Omicron symptoms will last, doctors say (the-sun.com)

Can Omicron Cause Long COVID? (healthline.com)

Can the Omicron Variant Cause Long Covid? | Sarasota Magazine

More than 50 Long-term effects of COVID-19: a systematic review and meta-analysis (nih.gov)

Long COVID: long-term effects? (nih.gov)

COVID ‘Long Haulers’: Long-Term Effects of COVID-19 | Johns Hopkins Medicine

Long-term effects of COVID-19 revealed in important Australian study - Medicine, Nursing and Health Sciences (monash.edu)

The hidden long-term cognitive effects of COVID-19 - Harvard Health

Plenty more both from general news outlets to colleges and it is good that they are documenting and looking into what is causing some of these long term affects so that they can figure out how to heal them and make a better Vaccine.

Stay Safe everyone, we have lost enough innocent lives. Hope everyone has a better 2022. 

Wishing you all the best for minimal long term affects @ccap41 Thank you for sharing your story, greatly appreciated. 

[Drew Dowdell]

42 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

That's my issue with the covid vaccines, there's no guarantee. 

Nothing is guaranteed... not even your seatbelt. But if you're healthy with a good immune system, your symptoms would have been reduced even further with the vaccine and possibly never have even been infected.   One of my part-time remote employees had it a few weeks back, she picked it up from holiday traveling with a big group of friends.  All she had was a scratchy throat and a bit of tiredness because she is triple vaxxed.

The kicker is that now that you've had it, if you go get your three shots, spaced out appropriately, you'll be as close to 100% immune as you can get. unfortunately, currently, you are still vulnerable to a Delta infection and in a few months even a second Omicron infection. 

[David]

Yes, we have to now deal with Omicron B2 which is even more infectious according to my CDC meetings and fakes looking like Delta when tested. They are now reworking how they test to better Identify B2 as Denmark is now the leading country in B2 infections, and it does hit hard unless your vaccinated.

[David]

OUCH, BA2 strain of Omnicron is replacing the original BA1 strain.

Scientists on alert over rising cases caused by a new Omicron-related strain (yahoo.com)

[David]

So sad to see that the leading death of our Police Officers across the nation is due to a lack of vaccination due to misinformation.

'Preventable tragedy': Fox News silent after guest dies of Covid (msnbc.com)

[ccap41]

Except it isn't a guarantee a covid vaccine would have saved his life. 

[Drew Dowdell]

45 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Except it isn't a guarantee a covid vaccine would have saved his life. 

You keep saying guarantee as if there is any in this world.  Nothing is guaranteed. 

However, his likelihood of dying of covid, or even being hospitalized would have dropped drastically into the single digit percent chance range.  If you get intubated there is a 75% chance you're not going to make it. If you get vaxxed and boosted there's less than a 1% chance you're even going to be intubated. 

I gotta ask... what is the hesitancy to a vaccine that has been administered several billion times already and is one of the most effective of all vaccines ever?

[ccap41]

31 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

You keep saying guarantee as if there is any in this world.  Nothing is guaranteed.

Except all of the vaccines we get as children. And I completely understand we're not looking at a 100% working rate but a 95-98% working rate isn't unreasonable to ask for. 

34 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I gotta ask... what is the hesitancy to a vaccine that has been administered several billion times already and is one of the most effective of all vaccines ever?

They simply don't work well enough. If you're healthy, and NOT OVERWEIGHT (like most people who are having major issues), you're already looking at incredible rates of survival and living a normal life a week later. Needing multiple boosters a year to just stay up to date with the current strand seems pretty obvious that it doesn't work all that well, unless you're getting a booster every 5 months, per the CDC.

[David]

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

Except all of the vaccines we get as children. And I completely understand we're not looking at a 100% working rate but a 95-98% working rate isn't unreasonable to ask for. 

They simply don't work well enough. If you're healthy, and NOT OVERWEIGHT (like most people who are having major issues), you're already looking at incredible rates of survival and living a normal life a week later. Needing multiple boosters a year to just stay up to date with the current strand seems pretty obvious that it doesn't work all that well, unless you're getting a booster every 5 months, per the CDC.

Covid Vaccine is that successful and working as no vaccine is ever 100%.

Per the recent data released by the CDC: effectiveness of full vaccination for preventing hospitalization was 96% for Pfizer-BioNTech, 96% for Moderna, and 84% for Janssen COVID-19 vaccines; among adults aged ≥75 years, effectiveness of full vaccination for preventing hospitalization was 91% for Pfizer-BioNTech, 96% for Moderna, and 85% for Janssen COVID-19 vaccines.

Effectiveness of COVID-19 Vaccines in Preventing Hospitalization Among Adults Aged ≥65 Years — COVID-NET, 13 States, February–April 2021 | MMWR (cdc.gov)

COVID-19 Vaccine Effectiveness Research | CDC

I find this to be also effective as this story looks at the charts:

How Covid-19 vaccines succeeded in saving a million US lives, in charts - Vox

Hate to say it, but where various sources of these same feeble excuses that you use for not getting vaccinated are the very folks that are also vaccinated. Example is Fox News, Podcasts such as on Spotify, etc. I find it very interesting that these people lie and continue to spread false information about vaccination and yet they are also vaccinated themselves. Fox News is a perfect example where every single employee must be vaccinated but they spread lies about the vaccine.

You cling to healthy young, physically fit which is what so many people say their loved ones were but unvaccinated and they died from it.

If we did not care, we would not be pointing out the lifesaving benefits of the Vaccine.

🤔

Is there possibly another reason here? Is it because of the Lies spread about how the Covid Vaccine will make you sterile, shrink your balls and make you impotent? Sadly, that one has been debunked already but seems conservative areas cling to this as if getting the vaccine makes you less of a man.

I myself just do not get why you would even want to go through the illness and take the risk of dying versus vaccination.

FAQ per CDC: Myths and Facts about COVID-19 Vaccines | CDC

MYTH: The natural immunity I get from being sick with COVID-19 is better than the immunity I get from COVID-19 vaccination.

FACT: Getting a COVID-19 vaccination is a safer and more dependable way to build immunity to COVID-19 than getting sick with COVID-19.

COVID-19 vaccination causes a more predictable immune response than infection with the virus that causes COVID-19. Getting a COVID-19 vaccine gives most people a high level of protection against COVID-19 and can provide added protection for people who already had COVID-19. One study showed that, for people who already had COVID-19, those who do not get vaccinated after their recovery are more than 2 times as likely to get COVID-19 again than those who get fully vaccinated after their recovery.

All COVID-19 vaccines currently available in the United States are effective at preventing COVID-19. Getting sick with COVID-19 can offer some protection from future illness, sometimes called “natural immunity,” but the level of protection people get from having COVID-19 may vary depending on how mild or severe their illness was, the time since their infection, and their age.

Getting a COVID-19 vaccination is also a safer way to build protection than getting sick with COVID-19. COVID-19 vaccination helps protect you by creating an antibody response without you having to experience sickness. Getting vaccinated yourself may also protect people around you, particularly people at increased risk for severe illness from COVID-19. Getting sick with COVID-19 can cause severe illness or death, and we can’t reliably predict who will have mild or severe illness. If you get sick, you can spread COVID-19 to others. You can also continue to have long-term health issues after COVID-19 infection.

Learn about why you should get vaccinated even if you already had COVID-19.

If nothing else, if you want a laugh read the FAQ section, it is entertaining on all the Myths that the anti-vaccinated tend to push and are debunked.

[ccap41]

Yeah, there are people who need it and a lot of people who don't. Older and unhealthier people need it.

I don't think David or Drew benefit all that much from it. They both come across as active and healthy individuals. 

 

[Drew Dowdell]

2 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Except all of the vaccines we get as children. And I completely understand we're not looking at a 100% working rate but a 95-98% working rate isn't unreasonable to ask for. 

No. That is categorically, absolutely, completely false. There are breakthrough cases of stuff we get vaccinated for as children regularly whenever herd immunity is broken. 

The MMR vaccine (2 doses - 3 years apart) is 97% effective against measles, 88% effective against mumps.  They've also found out that people my age need MMR boosters because the effectiveness of the vaccine we were given as kids wore off unexpectedly.  I had my MMR shots redone in 2016.

The Tetanus shot drops from 75% effective to 12% effective in about 4 years.

Hep B (3 doses in the first 15 months and then restart the adult series with 2 doses after age 21) has a 90% effective rate that drops over time for 20 years.... but the vaccine came out in 1995, another in 1996, and the Hep A and B combo in 2001, you may not have gotten them. I did my series also in 2016.

It takes 4 doses of the Polio vaccine (4 doses - 5.5 year spread) to reach 100% effective and the doses go from 2 months old to 6 years old for the entire series

HPV (1 dose) is 86% effective in teenage women, and 71% effective in women over 20, but they won't even start administering it until at least 9 years old ate the minimum and many providers won't do it before 14.  They only recently started offering it to teenage boys / adult males and they waited this long for stupid sexist reasons. (men are usually asymptomatic carriers so the doctors didn't feel the need to vaccinate them even though it was the men that were transmitting it to the women). As such, there is no data on the effectiveness in men yet because it rarely ever gets detected. 

Of the childhood vaccines, only the Chicken pox vaccine (2 doses - 5 years apart) meets your criteria of being 100% effective.  They all require boosters, many with multi-year intervals. Many of them have their effectiveness diminish over time. 

The mRNA vaccines are around 93% effective at preventing hospitalization from infection, and 80% effective against any infection at all.  The degradation of the effectiveness has nothing to do with the vaccine, it's your body's immune system having the memory to keep making anti-bodies.  Unfortunately, just being infected with covid does not provide the same protection as getting vaccinated does and your body loses that memory even faster because it never gets the second dose unless you get infected again. 

Quote

They simply don't work well enough. If you're healthy, and NOT OVERWEIGHT (like most people who are having major issues), you're already looking at incredible rates of survival and living a normal life a week later. Needing multiple boosters a year to just stay up to date with the current strand seems pretty obvious that it doesn't work all that well, unless you're getting a booster every 5 months, per the CDC.

Again, they work fine.  Take it up with your body that the virus fighting memory diminishes over time.  The vaccine is gone from your body 5 - 7 days after your shot.  But this is an insanely selfish, self-centered, view.  How many people did you infect in your pre-symptomatic period? Which chemo patient did you kill? Who's dad is on a respirator now all because you sneezed on a shopping cart?  Just because you made it through doesn't mean you didn't infect someone else.

Boosters every 6 months is a small price to pay to not kill someone. 

One last chart to counteract your claim that the vaccine is not effective. In the unvaccinated population, there are 9.75 deaths per 100,000 cases.  In the vaccinated and boosted population, there are 0.1 deaths per 100,000 cases. So even the old talking point of "99% survival rate" is clearly not even valid.. it's currently about 90.5% for unvaccinated, but earlier this year was lower.  Look at the difference in those lines... you still want to say that the vaccine is not effective against preventing deaths? It would take 970,000 vax+boosted people getting covid to equal the number of deaths from 100,000 unvaccinated. 

[Drew Dowdell]

9 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Yeah, there are people who need it and a lot of people who don't. Older and unhealthier people need it.

I don't think David or Drew benefit all that much from it. They both come across as active and healthy individuals. 

 

I don't want to get sick at all.  Having Strep a couple weeks ago was plenty for me thanks. I also don't want to spread it to others if I did get infected... and vaccinated people have significantly lower viral loads than the unvaccinated. 

There is no upside to not getting vaccinated. None. 

Interestingly, there is an mRNA vaccine for HIV that started human trials in the last week, plus another technique using a gene therapy called CRISPER that can cut the virus out of an infected person's DNA (HIV imbeds itself in DNA, that is how it is able to hide from the body's immune system). 

[ccap41]

40 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Take it up with your body that the virus fighting memory diminishes over time.

Or, I can let my body fight off the XXL Flu, because that's what happens to such a large percentage of people who are healthy. 

"

Adults with excess weight are at even greater risk during the COVID-19 pandemic:

• Having obesity increases the risk of severe illness from COVID-19. People who are overweight may also be at increased risk.
• Having obesity may triple the risk of hospitalization due to a COVID-19 infection.
• Obesity is linked to impaired immune function.^2,3
• Obesity decreases lung capacity and reserve and can make ventilation more difficult.⁴
• A study of COVID-19 cases suggests that risks of hospitalization, intensive care unit admission, invasive mechanical ventilation, and death are higher with increasing BMI.⁵
  • The increased risk for hospitalization or death was particularly pronounced in those under age 65. ⁵
• More than 900,000 adult COVID-19 hospitalizations occurred in the United States between the beginning of the pandemic and November 18, 2020. Models estimate that 271,800 (30.2%) of these hospitalizations were attributed to obesity.⁶

"

https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/obesity-and-covid-19.html

54 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

There is no upside to not getting vaccinated. None.

It's completely inconvenient and you'll feel like crap FROM getting vaccinated. I don't know anybody who had ZERO symptoms the following day. 

The quad-boosted individuals have the same amount of time feeling icky as I do. 

[ccap41]

1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

We can crunch the actual math and see exactly how low the unvaccinated death rate is...

9.74/100000 = 0.0000974 = 0.00974%. 

And obviously this is out of EVERYBODY, so it includes all of the people who don't give two shts about their own health and prefer burgers and pizza. 

[David]

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

Yeah, there are people who need it and a lot of people who don't. Older and unhealthier people need it.

I don't think David or Drew benefit all that much from it. They both come across as active and healthy individuals. 

As a 54-year-old that works out daily, ski's 40 plus miles on the weekend, yes, I am active. But family DNA does play a part and as such, I deal with both my wife's parents and my own as well as our own grandparents, aka great grandparents to my kids and with them I take health and safety very seriously. I would hate to be a burden on our health system, I also would hate to be one that could easily transmit such a deadly virus to seniors even though I am reaching that area too.

The point being is in looking at the big picture of humanity, why would one not want to protect themselves and their loved ones and friends by not boosting the body to fight off a deadly virus. The billions of test cases now, the proof that even vaccinated can get the virus, but find only a day or two down as the body is programmed to fight and destroy the virus.

Caring about friends and I do consider you a friend @ccap41 you have been lucky that it did not affect you. Yet, I bet you like us all would love to get back to travel, and carefree living. As an unvaccinated person you still have a high chance of having it affect you in ways you do not even know yet. I know you think now that you have had covid you are fine, but the science does not bare that out.

Just stay safe, stay alive and stay with us.

David

[David]

37 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Or, I can let my body fight off the XXL Flu, because that's what happens to such a large percentage of people who are healthy. 

"

Adults with excess weight are at even greater risk during the COVID-19 pandemic:

• Having obesity increases the risk of severe illness from COVID-19. People who are overweight may also be at increased risk.
• Having obesity may triple the risk of hospitalization due to a COVID-19 infection.
• Obesity is linked to impaired immune function.^2,3
• Obesity decreases lung capacity and reserve and can make ventilation more difficult.⁴
• A study of COVID-19 cases suggests that risks of hospitalization, intensive care unit admission, invasive mechanical ventilation, and death are higher with increasing BMI.⁵
  • The increased risk for hospitalization or death was particularly pronounced in those under age 65. ⁵
• More than 900,000 adult COVID-19 hospitalizations occurred in the United States between the beginning of the pandemic and November 18, 2020. Models estimate that 271,800 (30.2%) of these hospitalizations were attributed to obesity.⁶

"

https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/obesity-and-covid-19.html

It's completely inconvenient and you'll feel like crap FROM getting vaccinated. I don't know anybody who had ZERO symptoms the following day. 

The quad-boosted individuals have the same amount of time feeling icky as I do. 

My wife, both my son, daughter and my sister and her partner Renee, six people in total that had Zero symptom's from getting vaccinated. Zero symptom's from getting boosted too. I do not hear except from people who are very much out of shape that they had any aches and were knocked out for a weekend. So yes, if you are totally out of shape, have other family history issues, you will probably feel the effects from vaccination.

The bigger question to ask oneself is: Can I live with myself if I pass on the covid virus to more vulnerable people and they lose their life all due to my resistance to a proven vaccine that helps to prevent serious illness as well as transmitting the virus to others? 🤔

UPDATE: Brain Fart, My Parents, wife parents, grandparents all had ZERO symptoms from the vaccine and grandparents are very German, overweight as is my wife's Korean parents that are overweight. Still no side effects from the vaccine or booster.

[ccap41]

5 minutes ago, David said:

Caring about friends and I do consider you a friend @ccap41 you have been lucky that it did not affect you. Yet, I bet you like us all would love to get back to travel, and carefree living. As an unvaccinated person you still have a high chance of having it affect you in ways you do not even know yet. I know you think now that you have had covid you are fine, but the science does not bare that out.

You know you can do this, right? Maybe the PNW is scared in a little bubble, but there are a lot of places that are open. If wearing a mask constitutes as not being carefree living, then I think you have A LONG time yet to wait. Just get out and live your life. You and your family are vaccinated so go enjoy whatever you want to enjoy.

2 minutes ago, David said:

So yes, if you are totally out of shape, have other family history issues, you will probably feel the effects from COVID

 

3 minutes ago, David said:

Can I live with myself if I pass on the covid virus to more vulnerable people and they lose their life all due to my resistance to a proven vaccine that helps to prevent serious illness as well as transmitting the virus to others? 🤔

Well, you shouldn't be going out and about if you currently have the virus, right? I didn't leave my house last week. 

As some here would claim, I wasn't out there killing people by being unvaccinated. I wasn't spreading it to anybody nor was I taking up a hospital bed. 

[Drew Dowdell]

28 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Or, I can let my body fight off the XXL Flu, because that's what happens to such a large percentage of people who are healthy. 

"

Adults with excess weight are at even greater risk during the COVID-19 pandemic:

• Having obesity increases the risk of severe illness from COVID-19. People who are overweight may also be at increased risk.
• Having obesity may triple the risk of hospitalization due to a COVID-19 infection.
• Obesity is linked to impaired immune function.^2,3
• Obesity decreases lung capacity and reserve and can make ventilation more difficult.⁴
• A study of COVID-19 cases suggests that risks of hospitalization, intensive care unit admission, invasive mechanical ventilation, and death are higher with increasing BMI.⁵
  • The increased risk for hospitalization or death was particularly pronounced in those under age 65. ⁵
• More than 900,000 adult COVID-19 hospitalizations occurred in the United States between the beginning of the pandemic and November 18, 2020. Models estimate that 271,800 (30.2%) of these hospitalizations were attributed to obesity.⁶

"

https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/obesity-and-covid-19.html

It's completely inconvenient and you'll feel like crap FROM getting vaccinated. I don't know anybody who had ZERO symptoms the following day. 

The quad-boosted individuals have the same amount of time feeling icky as I do. 

Shot 1 - No side effects.. slightly sore arm that night
Shot 2 - Feeling icky about 24 hours later, lasted a couple days, but no sore throat, cough, or any other respiratory issues, just a feeling of tired and blah. Worked from home that week and just took it easy.
Shot 3 - Feeling icky about 24 hours later, went to bed a little early that night, woke up feeling fine.

I felt a lot less icky than you did. 

Quote

Tuesday-Thursday I had on and off body aches also with an on and off mild fever. Waking up in the morning was definitely the worst and as I took medicine and vitamins throughout the day I felt better each day but woke up feeling pretty crappy. For the most part I didn't have a cough but i wouldn't say it was completely nonexistent.

Quote

Thursday night and all Friday was the worst as my body felt much better but for whatever reason my throat was killing me. It was extremely sore and talking or drinking hurt. I wouldn't say I'm 100% today but I'm a good 90% with a tiny cough and my throat is still a little sore.

You sound a lot more like when I had the bad case of Strep rather than what I felt like from the vaccine... though I didn't even have the cough from Strep.  That said, I had one of the stronger reactions to the vaccine than most people get.  Albert had no reaction to any of his shots beside the sore arm that comes with any vaccine and didn't miss a day of work (he can't work from home). 

 

You still didn't answer the question though.  How many grandmothers did you kill? How many dads did you put on ventilators?

[David]

11 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

You know you can do this, right? Maybe the PNW is scared in a little bubble, but there are a lot of places that are open. If wearing a mask constitutes as not being carefree living, then I think you have A LONG time yet to wait. Just get out and live your life. You and your family are vaccinated so go enjoy whatever you want to enjoy.

 

Well, you shouldn't be going out and about if you currently have the virus, right? I didn't leave my house last week. 

As some here would claim, I wasn't out there killing people by being unvaccinated. I wasn't spreading it to anybody nor was I taking up a hospital bed. 

I understand the point you're attempting to make, but Drew specifically pointed to pre-diagnosis. @Drew Dowdell to quote drews post above: How many people did you infect in your pre-symptomatic period?

The period before you are tested and discover you have Covid is a time when you are very high in transmission of the virus to others. That is the only point Drew made. Nothing about after the diagnosis you are being out and about. 

[Drew Dowdell]

11 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Well, you shouldn't be going out and about if you currently have the virus, right? I didn't leave my house last week. 

As some here would claim, I wasn't out there killing people by being unvaccinated. I wasn't spreading it to anybody nor was I taking up a hospital bed. 

You were probably out and about when you were pre-symptomatic though... unless someone exposed you and you KNEW it when it happened, there was a lag time between when you were shedding the virus and when you started having symptoms. 

[ccap41]

23 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I felt a lot less icky than you did.

You did but it's way closer than it ought to be, imo. 

24 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

You still didn't answer the question though.  How many grandmothers did you kill? How many dads did you put on ventilators?

I must have missed the question.

Grandparents are definitely in the age group in which I'm an advocate for it.

If they're vaccinated, almost none, right? If they're not vaccinated, wouldn't you prefer them to be done and gone anyway? 

Also, I did state that I wasn't out and about when I had it. As everybody should when they're sick, stay home, get healthy, and when you're good to go again, then proceed to go where you need to go. 

[ccap41]

31 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

You were probably out and about when you were pre-symptomatic though... unless someone exposed you and you KNEW it when it happened, there was a lag time between when you were shedding the virus and when you started having symptoms. 

Yes, Sunday and Monday I was out but when I was out I was masked as that's what almost everybody requires. 

1, 2, 300? I don't know. But those people have already made their decisions as well. If they're vaccinated they shouldn't have an issue. If they're not, they're well aware of their risks as well .

[oldshurst442]

My manager's father, a man in his late 50s, contracted the Delta variant in the beginning of the month.  He was double vaccinated. 

It got him bad.  He was on ventilators as it attacked his lungs almost immediately after testing positive. He developed pneumonia and continues to struggle to breathe.  He does have diabetes, dont know what type, and this would be a reason why even if he was double vaxxed, Delta did him dirty.  The doctors say, and we all know it to be true, had it not been for the 2 shots, he would not have made it. 

Its long Covid for him now and the doctors do not know if he will ever recover from his pneumonia.

He got Covid from my manager's mom. She is a postal worker and the consensus is that she got it from a co-worker.  Where did the co-worker catch it?  Nobody knows.  All involved were vaxxed.   Nobody else had symptoms. Only the dad.  

This would be the closest that I have ever been to someone linked with me in catching Covid. And this would be the most severe as well.

Scary shyte it is for some.  

Some luck it out.   I dont think I or my immediate family has caught Covid, yet,  as we are readying to enjoy living again as Montreal is warming up.  Not that winter was rough this time around, but Montreal was on lock-down not too long ago...   As it gets warmer, Montreal (Quebec) is loosening all kinds of restrictions.   It is said that public mask mandates maybe lifted in mid April. If not, probably sometime in May.  And we would deserve it as Quebec has a very very high 3 shot vax rate.  

 

[David]

@oldshurst442 @ccap41 I hope you both have a good year, but I cannot stress enough to still be careful.

WHY?

Easy, this Virus pandemic is far from over. Putin War is causing Covid infections to jump big time in Europe. Spain, Netherlands, Belgium Germany Italy and Sweden have all had large increases in infections and hospitalization over the last month. North America tends to trend behind Europe and as we open up and people stop wearing masks, I expect increases with a fourth wave in late spring/early summer here.

Animated Maps - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center (jhu.edu)

COVID-19 Map - Johns Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Center (jhu.edu)

We sadly are seeing an increase in infections and right now I would not recommend attending any indoor large gather without a face mask.

Yes we are slowly getting the world vaccinated, but even then this virus hurts the body in ways that we are not totally understanding yet. Long term Covid symptoms needs to be studied better as we are seeing with the long term covid that some have, comes long term memory loss.

More than 50 Long-term effects of COVID-19: a systematic review and meta-analysis - PMC (nih.gov)

Study explores prevalence and symptom trajectory of long COVID (news-medical.net)

Post-COVID Conditions | CDC

COVID-19 has long-term cardiovascular effects, ‘stunning’ study results reveal - Clinical Daily News - McKnight's Long-Term Care News (mcknights.com)

COVID-19 (coronavirus): Long-term effects - Mayo Clinic

While we need more study work done, Type A blood people have the worst long-term effects by Covid. Type O seems to be the most resilient against the virus.

COVID ‘Long Haulers’: Long-Term Effects of COVID-19 | Johns Hopkins Medicine

Serious COVID-19 linked to higher risk of long-term adverse mental health effects (news-medical.net)

‘Long COVID’ may lead to lingering airways disease, study finds - NewsBreak

Plenty more links are available, but the end result, we are no where ready to say we can go back to normal life and be carefree with this virus.

Live your life, but please be careful as especially for the unvaccinated, this virus tends to really mess up the body.

[David]

Interesting stories today based on the CDC/John Hopkins data and the Census Bureau.

Evidence shows that the Pandemic is worse in red states versus blue states due to the vaccination differences.

The coronavirus pandemic has been deadlier in red states (axios.com)

I can totally understand the big cities losing population as the pandemic made humans that could afford to, move away to less populated space to give themselves some protection against infection.

I do wonder if this is also a shift in political viewpoint as conservative states take in those that were living in liberal states and vice a versa.

Interactive map: Where population growth exploded during the pandemic (axios.com)

At a time when we have two years of hard facts on what works and what does not, one would think for the betterment of humankind and for the over all health and safety of the US that our Government would create a better system for response to the next Pandemic. Sadly, it looks to be a war of those that believe science over those that believe social media stories.

Partisanship undermines a playbook for the next pandemic (axios.com)

Data is always good in knowing how to stay safe and prepare for what could come next.

Excess Deaths Associated with COVID-19 | Data | Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (cdc.gov)

Excess Deaths Associated with COVID-19 (cdc.gov)

As they say, facts do not lie. Sad the excessive amount of deaths that could have been prevented if proper leadership by sound facts, science and medical professionals had led rather than politicians.

 

[oldshurst442]

There is an uptick in Covid cases in Quebec and especially in the Montreal area the last few days. 

Our government now is talking about 4rth doses and pleading the population to get their 3rd doses.  3rd doses have stalled the last couple of weeks.  The mask mandates were said to be lifted in mid April.  But now the government is not so sure.  This was yesterday's news conference.   Our Premier tested positive for Covid as well.  

Not so sure how the Quebec folk will feel about the mask mandates not being lifted.  So far, Quebec folk have been very civil about this whole Covid thing for the most part.  I sense minor civil unrest this time around.  

[David]

18 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

There is an uptick in Covid cases in Quebec and especially in the Montreal area the last few days. 

Our government now is talking about 4rth doses and pleading the population to get their 3rd doses.  3rd doses have stalled the last couple of weeks.  The mask mandates were said to be lifted in mid April.  But now the government is not so sure.  This was yesterday's news conference.   Our Premier tested positive for Covid as well.  

Not so sure how the Quebec folk will feel about the mask mandates not being lifted.  So far, Quebec folk have been very civil about this whole Covid thing for the most part.  I sense minor civil unrest this time around.  

I can honestly say that YES, the Public is Covid Fatigued!

Yet with that said are you willing to play Russian Roulette with your life?

Not me, My whole family continues to wear masks in public and we are not doing any large indoor events. This even includes going to my wine club release parties as the risk is not worth the it IMHO.

Since my job has me working with many medical groups that are working on Covid, the boosters are great, and a 4th booster will be needed. Lucky the mRNA tech is able to handle being tweaked to focus on the latest strains and this includes the newest B2 variant that is starting to take over across Europe and in select states/provinces/territories.

I just hope we can overcome the ignorance against vaccination especially for kids where we are seeing the uptick in sickness and death. Very sad.

[oldshurst442]

Its not called a pandemic for no reason...

Many folk (in the US and Canada) do not understand the meaning of the word 'pandemic'.  Many more others (in the US and Canada) simply havent experienced anything uncomfortable of this magnitude. We have been living life very sheltered since 1945.  Other than socio-economic falters along the way that much includes the rich get richer and the poor get poorer and some really bad racism, for the most part, Americans and Canadians have simply lived a very very aristocratic life and are much too phoquing tone deaf to see what the rest of the world had and continues to go through with poverty, wars, racism, REAL loss of freedoms or never had ANY freedoms to begin with on TOP of Covid...     Forgetting that there has been multiple famines and ebola outbreaks and all kinds of other pandemics that actually never hit North America since the end of WW2 in 1945.  

But now we are dangerously close in going political...    We should stop this direction right here...  

 

[surreal1272]

21 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

But now we are dangerously close in going political...    We should stop this direction right here... 

Close? It passed "close" two years ago when the folks who denied COVID in the first place, made it political.

[David]

12 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Close? It passed "close" two years ago when the folks who denied COVID in the first place, made it political.

Yes, you are right, the ignorance of people not wanting to face the facts did take it political.

We can, due to the good grace of @Drew Dowdell THANK YOU, discuss this, post links to the facts and with our own restrain and rereading of our post before we post it do our best to keep this focused on the deadly Virus at hand.

Our biggest challenge we will have, is being patient enough to continue to share the data, the educated best guess as science is only that till proven otherwise in helping those that choose to believe social media disinformation over science facts.

I always find it interesting that people will tend to believe a mishmash of social media BS over a stated testing methodology of science.

How someone with no facts, but a loud voice can get away with having people believe their BS over a science-based approach. 

Hate to say it, but education, which is the great equalizer IMHO, is also where we tend to have this division on society.

We have two camps, those that are educated and use it to abuse society and those that see it as a responsibility to help society.

This Pandemic has proven this out IMHO.

Here is to everyone staying safe and getting vaccinated.