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My chariot on the way to LA for the auto show. A Star Wars themed 737.

As with anything, the loudest complainers get the most attention. Reality will show in a couple years with sales results as to whether Ford made a good or a bad decision....

Riiiiight. A nation full of Mustang owners and I’m sure you took a very scientific and accurate poll of said owners to come to this “conclusion”. It surely has nothing to do with your disdain of the powertrain involved. What the F ever. Exactly my point. Just because some random folks on a message board express their displeasure doesn’t mean squat in the grand scheme of things. Wonder if he shares that same opinion about Vette owners and their opinions of it going mid-engine? The fact is that it wouldn’t matter if every mustang owner loved the E Mach. He would still cry foul because of the powertrain choice. Well boo F’in hoo to him.

The interwebs? To get feels about how society feels? Ha ha ha! Now THAT is a good one. The interwebs, or as I like to call them, the internets, is a world wide web full of angry people. And its the perfect cauldron of hate for people to hate on things. Its in human nature to complain. Humans in the summer complain that its too hot. In the winter they complain its too cold. And you would think that in the Spring or Fall, humans would cease to complain. But nope, they complain that summer cant come fast enough or there is too much rain in the forecast or they have to rake the bloody leaves... and this medium that connects us all makes it easier to...bitch. But, humans are also easily pleased. But, its in human nature NOT to advertise what makes us happy. We just smile and move on. Star Wars. Star Wars is dead according to the internets. From waaaaay back to the Prequels. Now, a new voice has risen that Star Wars is....dead again. Granted, we will see come Dec. 20 to see if that prediction is true. But I think its just a vocal minority bitching. The C8 Corvette. I went on many sites and youtube videos to see "reactions" by my fellow man. Although the ones in favour of the C8 does surpass the ones that do not like the C8 for various reasons, the ratio seems to be closer than what I let on a few weeks ago when I posted a thought on the C8. And the people hatin' on the C8, if we went with that as a popular vote on the status for the C8, it would be like what you saw with the Mustang Mach-E... But, I wouldnt put to much faith into that... Internet trolls exist. And they exist for many reasons. And THAT is why you cannot base your opinion on the internets.

Strange but in talking to coworkers who have mustangs, they are not upset at all but excited about additional options of Mustang DNA products. Must be the Mountain Boys you hanging with that are upset.

No reason to get defensive dude, I wasn't trying to correct you or show some sort of GM supremacy, that's a good one though! I have experience in the BEV and EVSE industry so I was giving my take on it. Take a couple deep breaths I didn't say the Mach-E was a POS like many already have. It's pretty much 2020 dude about 40 days away so 2022 MY vehicles are less than 2 years away normally releasing in late 3rd qtr. or early 4rd qtr. of the prior year. It's a Cadillac luxury vehicle so either way it will be FAR better than a Ford. If it were a Lincoln like it probably should be then it may be closer. There's always going to be haters of every brand especially large storied brands like GM and Ford and haters gonna hate. I'm not a Ford hater and hopefully for Ford's sake the Mach-E does well...they NEED IT to. Here's some good 'ole 'Merican built footage for ya! ?????? Oh I've had Ford products along with GM and Chrysler products in business. I think you know which one I've had better luck with. Oh you and my "Mopar or Nocar" cousin would get along well! He's a Dodge nut!!

From the Jalopnik link In all fairness, Ford had an additional 3 years to launch a Tesla fighting product. In all fairness, GM beat Tesla to the market by offering a more or less affordable BEV BEFORE Tesla launched the Model 3. In all fairness though to Tesla, the Model 3 is just THAT much better of an EV product than the Bolt. In all fairness to Ford, GM rushed the Bolt to be first to the market in thinking they got this. And it would be a good product, but Tesla is THAT much AHEAD of its competition. The Model S is a product from 2012. The year that the Focus EV came out in multiple markets... Its just that the Model S and Tesla is THAT far ahead of everybody else... Porsche came up a tad short too... In all fairness to GM, Tesla is performance oriented. The Bolt is average Joe oriented. The Mustang Mach-E and the Porsche and the Audi and the Jag are all performance oriented. The Ford product comes the closet in being a Telsa killer. The Bolt...is just on another market level. The Bolt is NOT about performance. The Bolt is about urban city driving. It fails NOT because its not a performance oriented product. It fails because it fails as an urban city product... Had it had nicer lines and better interior room, it fair better. But then again, maybe the EV market for now IS performance oriented, and the Mustang Mach-E does NOT disappoint. I had high hopes for the Porsche Taycan, and it being a Porsche, I thought it slaughter the Model S...a 7 year older model. It does not. To boot, the Plaid handling version as a test mule looks to spank the Porsche on its own turf as well, on the 'Ring... NOT a good thing for the Taycan...

Good product. But...why do I sense that you would NEVER give a Ford product a try? I guess its better that shytting on Tesla too... I...am an American car guy. Whether its a GM product, a Ford product, a Chrysler product and now...finally, after a long time....a FORTH American car company, Tesla. I do skew in favour of General Motors, lately, Im not so hot on GM. I aint so hot on Ford either. I am a closet Mopar guy. I have come out, but I still feel uneasy about it in public for whatever reason. I mean, I flaunt Hellcat colours all day everyday. I did not want Viper to go away. I cry at the state of Chrysler cars because quite frankly, there are ANY Chrysler cars...

Gotta love the pictures and Videos they have on the media site. https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/multimedia/album/2020/mustang-mach-e.html https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/multimedia/album/2019/2019-la-auto-show.html Reservations are made here on a refundable $500 deposit. https://www.ford.com/suvs/mach-e/2021/ Full Media kit and additional info is found here. https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2019/11/17/all-electric-ford-mustang-mach-e.html Gotta say, I am very excited for this to quote the media page. Ford also will offer two special performance versions. The GT is targeting 0-60 mph in under 4 seconds2, making it faster off the line than a Porsche Macan Turbo3. The GT Performance Edition, meanwhile, is targeting a comparable 0-60 mph in the mid-3-second range to a Porsche 911 GTS.3 Both GT configurations are targeting an estimated 342 kW (459 horsepower) and 830 Nm (612 lb.-ft.) of torque.2 In addition to blistering acceleration, Mustang Mach-E will be available with Brembo’s all-new performance Flexira aluminum calipers, which maintain the functionality of a fixed caliper while being designed with the dimensions of a floating caliper. The GT Performance Edition is equipped with a MagneRide® damping system, adaptive suspension technology that lets drivers hug the road while delivering an exciting, comfortable ride. EXCITEMENT Performance gives new meaning to the word ‘electrifying’ Mustang Mach-E delivers three unique drive experiences – Whisper, Engage and Unbridled – each offering finely tuned driving dynamics packaged with a distinct sensory experience. Features include custom-designed vehicle responsiveness such as sportier steering controls, ambient lighting, sounds tuned for an authentic all-electric experience, and dynamic cluster animations that are tied to driving behavior. When the vehicle launches, a new Mach-E 4 all-wheel drive system will be available that can apply torque independently to the front and rear axles to deliver impressive acceleration and improved handling over the rear-wheel drive model. Ford tuned this system to provide excellent traction on the road, rigorously testing the vehicle in wet and snowy terrain to help control for slippery conditions. Mach-E is the first production vehicle to be tuned by the Ford Performance team utilizing Ford’s racing simulator in North Carolina. “Whether you want to really feel its performance capability or are looking for the quiet atmosphere that electric vehicles can offer, the Mach-E harnesses the power of electrification to create a unique driving experience while retaining that unmistakable Mustang feeling of freedom,” said Ted Cannis, Ford enterprise product line director, global electrification.

Cue Matthew McConahughey... 'The new Lincoln Elevator....luxury elevated.'

'Trolls on teh internets' have been a truism since olden days..they were there on CompuServe and Usenet newsgroups 30 years ago when I was but a skinny teenager with a Mustang (2 actually) and learning the computing game on computers that seem primitive compared to my phone today..

KA-POW!

Sunday evening I was out and about and saw an Amish buggy with a light bar on the front roof, like something off those brodozer trucks. Green and white lights.

Mercedes copied GM and debuted an airbag system, but 8 years later (‘73 vs. ‘81).

Looked at an online calculator. $75,000 salary, filing single, deduction of $22,000 ($12K personal, $10K property tax) = taxable income of $53,000. Tax on those numbers would be $7,518. Not sure a person with a home getting taxed at at least $10K and taking home $53K should be buying a $50+K Model 3, but I know people do it.

And it’s hilarious coming from a guy that would probably have no problem with a Corvette based SUV, so long as it uses dinosaur juice. Out of date thinking is still out of date. Yeah, those pesky customers. They just keep the lights on for companies like Ford. Damn them. Damn them all.

Ford's engines and trannies and all wheels drive setups break down after the last payment is made, so they decided to make a car without a gas engine and complex corresponding driveline. So maybe this vehicle exists for Ford to improve their reliability ratings,

Im a muscle car guy through and through (and in my definition, pony cars are certainly included) and I do like the Mustang throughout its history, although there are more than a couple of generations that I cant stand. From 1971-2004 to be exact, by I digress... I do like the looks of this "Mustang" Mach E. Its performance and range is on par with Tesla products. In the looks department, it surpasses the Tesla Model X by miles... It should do well in the market place as it mimics Tesla quite well. From range and performance to interior simplicity and iPad screens. And its a better looker to boot! If it does not sell well, its because 1. The EV people really do NOT trust the status quo automakers such as Ford, GM VW and the like, and are ONLY loyal to Tesla 2. The curious folk that are intrigued by EVs are NOT ready just yet, if ever, to commit to buying an EV. And if it does not sell, it will be a damned shame as it seems like Ford, as a late comer to the 100% pure BEV market, has done it right. And done it right the FIRST timea around. Nobody can accuse the Mach E as a compliance EV as some do the Bolt... The Porsche Taycan is a good try. But it aint a Tesla Killer. The Jaguar whatever its called, is an OK try...but it fails to be in the same vicinity as a Tesla product. The Bolt is a good try too, but its far from being a Tesla product equivalent. The Mach E as Ford's first BEV, is in the same territory!!! Quite the accomplishment!!!

It’s called having an open mind which is sorely lacking for some. As long as Ford doesn’t bitch this up (i.e. the Explorer/Aviator launch), they may actually be on to something here. Still not crazy about that oversized tablet though. That is a maintenance and damage nightmare waiting to happen.

Bolt : 4th place in sales on a chart of nearly 40 EVs & plug ins. Excellent acceptance... among electric car buyers.

Obviously these sort of things are a lot of fluff, but they barely talked about performance other than up to 300 mile range and an estimated 0-60 time of the GT. They didn’t talk price or trim levels, or any features outside of Sync. And this was over a half hour, iris like these people don’t know how to sell cars. And judging by recent performance that seems to be the case. When the C8 reveal happened they gave you a price, features engineering, they gave you reasons to buy it. Every reason Ford gave to buy one of these Tesla already does, and probably better than Ford does it.

@Drew Dowdell Imma gonna serenade you. I hope the best for you. Good luck!

By vehicle size/type; yes. But by price; the Bolt is about 20% more than the Leaf and is actually priced higher than Model 3.

This is truly Ford, that they have made very clear as the Rivian is full size truck / suv. I would honestly expect this to be a smaller version of what Rivian has done. It could be an updated platform based on the DNA of Rivian. Interesting read: https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/classic-cars/7-ford-mustangs-that-are-worse-than-the-2021-mustang-mach-e/ss-BBWX9Ll?li=BBnb4R5#image=1 I have to say, I forgot about the station wagon and the FWD Mustang concepts.

If people can swallow the price, there's no glaring downside to it. Heck, even in the Edge-sized price range this isn't really "out there" in pricing. They mortgaged the pony during hard times. All things are on the table for a business. Remember when everybody was like, "Corvette should split off and create its own brand and have a Corvette SUV"? Because I do.

Personally, I think Ford is selling out Mustang name, and does it poorly and cheaply. Regardless of how bad some previous Mustangs were and what kind of engines the have or had it was always a RWD coupe/convertible pony/sports car. Putting that name on the crossover, even fast EV one I think is a cheap move. I think it would be great if they just called it Mach E, that actually would be a cool name by itself.

I like this product and wish them the best...glad to see them doing this.

Articles are stating the Encore GX is more than competitively priced with the original version they will continue to sell. Perhaps the Trax and Encore will be rebated into the entry level positions now held by Cruze, Sonic, and the late, lamented Verano. The Trailblazer, if priced reasonably (hopefully a lesson has been learnt with Blazer's sky-high MSRP) could be made to fill a lot of shoes over at Chevy stores. Maybe... if the incentives/lease deals are right, a base Trax FWD could be mom's next car, instead of a Venue.

Not to make light of DD's situation too much but, I've tried to lay myself off numerous times, to no avail. I keep showing up like nothing happened. - - - - - Original owner '75 Toronado 'Air Cushion' car (air bag) :

Has Potential!

I recently posted 'how the EV tax credit works', but I had it wrong. Want to correct the gist of it here. I was under the incorrect impression that the credit offset the amount you owed when you FILED. My wife [who was an economics major, has worked for a major investment house for a few decades, does our taxes and is one smart cookie] explained to me the credit goes against the TOTAL fiscal tax liability. This would include any check you write at filing time AND your taxes paid during the year, most of which came out of your salary. The bottom line as explained to me by this smart cookie is, anyone who is remotely fiscally sane (income high enough to get financing I guess) and buys an EV is likely to get the tax credit. A single filer who's Adjusted Gross Income is $100K pays $18,713 according to Google, which is comfortably in excess of $7500. I formally retract my accusation that advertising a EV with the tax credit modifying the MSRP is "borderline criminal".

Apparently they're looking into making the Mustang a whole sub-brand of Ford with a family of Mustangs.

I guess you dont like George Lucas' special edition Star Wars tweeks then...

The Mustang name to this EV could be a detriment to the Mustang name...but it could be a genius move. Only time will tell. The thing is, I think Ford is ready to expand the Mustang portfolio and kinda make it into some sort of brand. I do not mean that Ford will branch off Mustang into its own division, but expand the Mustang portfolio... The Mustang was always special in the Ford line-up. Immediately the year after its launch even. There were Mustangs, and then there were SHELBY Mustangs and today, Mustang is sold all over the world. A 4 door SUV EV Mustang? Why the hell not? Mustangs, from Ford or from the Shelby years are synonymous with performance. And this Mustang Mach-E has the performance to back up its Mustang branded name.... Im ready to call this a genius move.

Though this might be a good addition to the US Chevy line, it looks more appealing than the Bolt.

The C8 had a better presentation. I was comparing the events. This Mach-e presentation was overly scripted and even Bill Ford seemed wooden and stiff, he didn’t even seem that excited. Tadge Juecter or however you spell it was super excited and passionate about the C8, he made you want to go out and buy one. Bill Ford and Jim Hackett didn’t sell me on anything.

I think it is an all around interesting move that their first real EV(excluding the joke of a Focus Electric) is near coupe-like and performance oriented as opposed to something basic as sht like an electric Escape or Fusion sized/shaped vehicles. I have a feeling the massive tablet is going to become more and more common as it reduces costs and people like big screens, in general. Enthusiasts notice it doesn't flow well but AverageAshley just sees something that looks highly technologically advanced because big screen and sees fancy.

Concrete sidewalks, dirt roads. Wash DC, 1925 ~

My prediction is that it will do well* due to being an SUV, having strong name association and being from a volume brand. Also, it isn't priced at $70K (Rivian) or $110K (Tesla) or $125K (Bollinger). I can see it in the top 5 sales-wise in year 2 as long as it doesn't have glaring shortfalls. [* for an EV]

While I'm not a huge fan of throwing Mustang on the actual vehicle name I think people are missing the point in why they're doing it. Balthy can probably understand as EV sales really aren't much of anything. They're using the name to grab attention and attention they got. Chevy came out with the Bolt and hardly made a splash and it's a very adequate EV with no real downsides outside of price.. and 'looks' but those are subjective.

that might have been the best 4 door version. ironically, we are inheriting an 08 grand prix soon for the kid to drive.... excitement! Now that the Accord rid itself of the v6, the AWD and v6 apparently must be the reasons du jour for Acura to continue to sell the TLX..... Yeah, GM doesn't even want to feed the starter market anymore...... that said, they probably will have cheap trim version of the upcoming Trailblazer, and they will probably increase production on the Trax and dump all sorts of already amortized Korean made Trax to fill the entry level..... I saw a really nice 2019 Cruze premier today. As always, GM figures it out after its production run is over.... GM is really REALLY missing the boat on affordable FUN and PERFORMANCE cars these days. The younger gen has no vehicles that are cheap + fun to draw them into GM showrooms. Camaro aside.

Will be back to see what everyone thinks, my kids are taking me out for dinner. Back in a few hours ya'll!

There was a '73 mercedes SL there too (seen next to the Caddy). I always take a minute to look at older mercedes to check their build quality/engineering. Time & time again, as personally viewed on '50s, '60s, '70s and '80s versions, they're no better engineered or constructed than a Plymouth or Rambler. The hood springs are anchored to the inner fender sheetmetal. There's thousands of screws & panels & fasteners to bolt them together, just encouraging rattles and corrosion. The '73 was a little better than the '59 I looked at a few years ago, but not by much. Front bumper is still in 2 halves and bolted together in the center. There was a dicey welded patch at the lower corner of the grille opening, and there was no evidence the car was ever repainted that I saw. TONS of marketing went into the illusion that it's a top-notch quality piece, but reality really shatters that myth hard. It's a plebian, plain little car loaded with cheap bits and mediocre construction.

Ford has always made the Lightning a very attractive package. - - - - - Barn-find '20s Pierce-Arrow straight 6 engine on CL. Interesting to see the free-flowing, tubular exhaust and 4 valves/cylinder :

I generally don't like Ford truck styling since 1997, but this DDR Concepts Lightning is sweet...I like the cleaned up front end.

GXP - the best iteration of the last Bonne. Still a great looking car. Now we have to look at disjointed shit like this:

I liked these. I didn't love them. So, then, today I saw the last rendition of Olds' Custom Cruiser full size wagon. It was white. Couldn't get a photo. It was in very good condition. This model was only run for 1991 and 1992. That meant I was looking at a 27 or 28 year old RWD vehicle that the years had been kind to. The front end is cool. The rear third is a little on the bloated side. They kept the old school square front fascia all the way through 1990. I was driving and couldn't look at the interior but, wow, this looks like a nicely crafted interior that's quite a few notches above a base GM offering in wagons of that era. There's the vista roof treatment that Olds used to use quite extensively in wagons. I'm guessing V8s of the 5.0 (307) or 5.7 (350) variety, hopefully produced by Oldsmobile Motor Division.

Cannot agree with this, IKEA BLOWS! They honestly need to be investigated for deceptive pricing, marketing and failure to support products they sell that upon return, sorry that is discontinued and not supported. Not returnable. They use tiny signage to say you have to be part of some plan to get the priced items. Hell help you if you buy a product missing parts and it has been discontinued by the company but still being sold. I get it that it is cheap, but not worth the hours you spend in line to check out, the Salty MSG heavy food they sell and the lack of quality help. If Cheap is your thing, then IKEA is your place. I will save up and buy quality over cheap. Horror stories about my kids buying stuff and then having to return it or try and get parts. I have told them knock the shit off and save to buy quality stuff. Not worth anyone's time. We really need a Love Emoji in the choices for post other than the 5 options we have. ?

^ 1965 was a very good year for GM styling across the board..