ccap41

If Ford is 10-15 years behind when all these cars were was hp and weight then they will forever be behind the Camaro. You need to be able to put the power to the ground and there are MANY variables that go into that. displacement is a moot point and really means nothing because power is what it is, 455. But it's how they designed a chassis to get that power to the ground both accelerating and decelerating. That is currently where the Mustang is lagging behind the Camaro and the supposed benchmarked cars. It isn't about peak hp anymore, which the Camaro has as well... I just hope they see they are behind in more than just hp and tq to the SS. Don't get me wrong, I'd buy the GT over the SS every day of the week but I know it is behind in performance. I just want Ford to take this blow to the chin and run with it. Take this as a big slap in the face and make improvements like GM did with the Zeta Camaro. They turned a whale into a dolphin(over weight and sloppy to agile and precise - odd comparison, right? lol ).

Is MT back up and working? I checked earlier and it was still down.

^ I think the back looks relatively bad for how much I like the rest of the car, even in today's clothes that it wears. The back never worked for me but I honestly really like this new front end it just looks soooo much like a Jag with Audi headlights. But yes, the back end doesn't look like it matches the front end(I feel like that with the current gen too, though). I think the profile looks decent, not bad, not gorgeous either though.

Explain all of the risks involved in rebadging a car as opposed to making their own platforms? I feel like they do the opposite of taking risks. Don't get me wrong, I REALLY like the MKC and MKX but that doesn't mean they have taken any serious risks with anything in their lineup. The biggest risk will be the Continental. Risks? Sure. Looking back a few years, there was plenty of risk. Some of which good, some not so. 1. Navigator was a risk, and really started the full sized luxury SUV segment 2. Blackwood was quite the risk 3. LS was a risk, and huge departure from the Town Cars of that day. 4. Original EcoBoost was a Lincoln MKS, very risky too. 5. MKX was somewhat risky. 6. Several design languages (and designers), also a risk. 7. Hybrids 8. 400 hp sedans with sophisticated AWD systems are the latest. 9. Aluminum bodied SUV soon. 10. Did I miss anything? 11. oh yeah, MKT was a huge risk. Anyway, far more risky than what they were doing in 1995, when sales were high and competition was low. And going forward, what they are doing with flexible platforms would hardly be considered risky, but in fact brilliant. So risk is not just throwing an existing V8 into a low volume niche sedan. And none of those stack up to creating a ground up brand spankin' new car of their own that Ford could take the trickle down tech from(Like the Alpha over at the GM camp). (I don't know much about the LS - it seems like it may be the closest). I guess I just don't see the true risk involved in a badge-job. Yes, yes, yes..today, in 2015, they are more than a simple badge job but you know what I mean. entire driveline is the same, interior flows are similar, they're Fords at the heart. And that's fine to be honest. Just don't try and sell they're taking risks with a rebadged and upscale Ford until the Continental is rolling around because as far as I know that is the only Lincoln-only vehicle. Their risk:reward ratio next to Cadillac 10 years ago.. we know which one took the cake from then on. BTW, MKT was a risk because they thought "will anybody buy the ugliest, worst proportioned, more expensive Explorer?" The only risk there was how poorly executed it was. Maybe it was actually a good vehicle but it is top 5 in ugliest vehicle of 2015 in my books. I like Lincoln..but I FREAKIN HATE the MKT. THAT is a badge job gone wrong. Fair enough, you believe Lincoln has not taken ANY risks in recent years, their current products are re-badged lesser luxury vehicles, new designs are carbon copies of other products, and they appear to be dead in the water. Point made. Far more than once actually. I disagree with most of it. Agree to disagree then I don't see them as dead in the water as I really like their newest offerings I just to not see them as distinct or risky moves. We can agree to disagree, No worries.

Explain all of the risks involved in rebadging a car as opposed to making their own platforms? I feel like they do the opposite of taking risks. Don't get me wrong, I REALLY like the MKC and MKX but that doesn't mean they have taken any serious risks with anything in their lineup. The biggest risk will be the Continental. Risks? Sure. Looking back a few years, there was plenty of risk. Some of which good, some not so. 1. Navigator was a risk, and really started the full sized luxury SUV segment 2. Blackwood was quite the risk 3. LS was a risk, and huge departure from the Town Cars of that day. 4. Original EcoBoost was a Lincoln MKS, very risky too. 5. MKX was somewhat risky. 6. Several design languages (and designers), also a risk. 7. Hybrids 8. 400 hp sedans with sophisticated AWD systems are the latest. 9. Aluminum bodied SUV soon. 10. Did I miss anything? 11. oh yeah, MKT was a huge risk. Anyway, far more risky than what they were doing in 1995, when sales were high and competition was low. And going forward, what they are doing with flexible platforms would hardly be considered risky, but in fact brilliant. So risk is not just throwing an existing V8 into a low volume niche sedan. And none of those stack up to creating a ground up brand spankin' new car of their own that Ford could take the trickle down tech from(Like the Alpha over at the GM camp). (I don't know much about the LS - it seems like it may be the closest). I guess I just don't see the true risk involved in a badge-job. Yes, yes, yes..today, in 2015, they are more than a simple badge job but you know what I mean. entire driveline is the same, interior flows are similar, they're Fords at the heart. And that's fine to be honest. Just don't try and sell they're taking risks with a rebadged and upscale Ford until the Continental is rolling around because as far as I know that is the only Lincoln-only vehicle. Their risk:reward ratio next to Cadillac 10 years ago.. we know which one took the cake from then on. BTW, MKT was a risk because they thought "will anybody buy the ugliest, worst proportioned, more expensive Explorer?" The only risk there was how poorly executed it was. Maybe it was actually a good vehicle but it is top 5 in ugliest vehicle of 2015 in my books. I like Lincoln..but I FREAKIN HATE the MKT. THAT is a badge job gone wrong.

Explain all of the risks involved in rebadging a car as opposed to making their own platforms? I feel like they do the opposite of taking risks. Don't get me wrong, I REALLY like the MKC and MKX but that doesn't mean they have taken any serious risks with anything in their lineup. The biggest risk will be the Continental. lol, Classic 'Bong Camaro plug.

I thought that myself at first. Then I thought about it and it isn't that far out from what they've been doing. I mean we just received a "new" Navigator(2015), MKC(2015) and MKX(2016). The Continental will be out in 2017 along with the MKZ so we're looking at 2 new vehicles in 3 years..(2018-2020) not great but nothing terrible for a small market company. That is a 6 car company that expanded 1 car last year 1 car next year and 2 of the previous 5 are all new by 2017.. not really that bad. I mean they only have 6 vehicles in their lineup right now after the MKC was added.

They should have thought of that when allowing the last one, or two, out then, right? Yes i think this is a better look. I just don't understand why they; A: change so often. B: made it look so similar,from the front, to a Jag with Audi headlights. We will never actually know if they would have been better off with the last design(current) because they didn't stick with it. I think it is more than body panels that have held Lincoln back so I don't think just a swap with a Jaguar will cure what they have(or haven't) done. Well, I'm curious what they will do with the next Lincoln F-Pa... MKC will look like with the next face lift. Can you imagine how that grill will look on a Navigator??? It'll look like a plecostomus sucking on some glass.

Give me one of these with their 2.0T and I'm in. Looks sharp! My only "fear" would be it would price too much above the Focus ST and approach RS because it is a "premium" brand and then there is no doubt if it was closely priced to the RS that I'd buy the RS all day long. Good lookin' car though.

That's a weird way to look at how Lincoln is constantly changing their identity. Clothing isn't really the greatest example of why an automaker would change their design theme. I change my gym shorts because they smell to a pair that doesn't smell. But they're still gym shorts. It’s all about appearance, so it need not be weird. Let’s face it, the big chrome grill went out decades ago, the waterfall grill was marginally stylish and the more recent moustache-like ‘split bow’ look was very, very polarizing. Sure, they updated it with recent CUV line, but that’s just it, it worked better on CUVs. Never looked good on MKS, and only looked marginally good on MKZ. This new look is contemporary, without the ‘bow’ to the past, and just simply better aligns to a future Lincoln style that should wear well for many years. But at the end of the luxury car shoppers day, it gets people noticing it and talking and not saying....'it looks just like the other 2 or 3 models from the last decade.' Those other models from the last 2-3 decades you're speaking of sell out the ass and performance matches their sales so while you may be taking a little shot at them, they have all been very VERY successful in more than one way. At least the completely ignorant can pick out a BMW/Mercedes/Audi without a badge. With all these completely different styles coming from Lincoln it will get people noticing but they won't know what it is. You see the twin kidney grills from a BMW miles way and you know what it is. You can do the same with the MB Tri-Star large and prominent in their grills. So when will Lincoln ever find their right tie/shirt/jacket/pants/cufflinks/vest combination? Just my opinion but I think the MKS always just looked awkward and stupid. Nothing would have made that barge look good.Too big. Too bulky. Too bland. Too underwhelming. I also hate the Taurus though..so there's that.

That's a weird way to look at how Lincoln is constantly changing their identity. Clothing isn't really the greatest example of why an automaker would change their design theme. I change my gym shorts because they smell to a pair that doesn't smell. But they're still gym shorts.

Distinct look? It looks like they made an Audi-Jag hybrid, While I think it looks great I'm not sure how distinct it is. Come to think of it...I'm curious what Jaguar thinks of this.

OMG, I'm sorry, man! Rough start.. On another note.. I got "yelled" at on an Escape forum for saying "dog$h!" when referring to my winter fuel mileage compared to summer mileage..lol

That was EXACTLY what I was thinking. It looks like a really good looking Audi-Jaguar..but it's a Lincoln. I still like its looks regardless but it doesn't look like its own design like the current gen does.

The reason it wouldn't, in my opinion, is to push the technology out there to more people and then the little better CAFE score if they sell more as well. As small of a bump it would be...a better score is a better score. Which imagine the CAFE help if it was applied to SUVs and trucks. Rather than a low volume Cadillac. They could put a 15 mpg V12 in the CT6 as the base engine and sell it for $60k, they'd still only sell 3% the volume of what the Silverado sells. Cadillac shouldn't have to pay the CAFE piper at GM, let Chevy do that.It's an entire team effort though. Not just a Silverado and CT6 adventure. The CT6 has a large ground coverage(wheelbase and width) which CAFE bases their scores on. And as it has been said before getting a truck to achieve the mileage is a lot different than getting a car to achieve the mileage with a hybrid. Hybrid trucks will be there but getting the tech into the truck will push the price up so high without adding enough mileage to justify the purchaser the additional cost. I mean if you only get 1-2mpg better but spend 5k more nobody will buy them, again. Plus, based on the previous hybrid Silverado, they are much much less capable as an actual truck when in hybrid form because they weigh so much more. I mean in 09 the 4WD Silverado could only tow 6100 lbs. Yes, technology has changed and advanced ALOT since then but they will still weigh more and be less capable as a truck. There will be a time and place for a hybrid truck and whoever does it again I think will have it done much better than in the past, whoever It may be.

Costs. That's why they don't continue to make parts for everything they've ever made. For the 5 firebirds that get wrecked and the 2 that aren't totaled a year it just doesn't make sence to continue to make parts for how rare of a situation that comes up. Now that car isn't that old so I'm surprised there wasn't more available but I can't really blame them for discontinuing parts for cars 13 years old.

I believe you are correct, Surreal. Tahoe and Silverado. I think with how technology has advanced it is worth checking out again though. I assume you could bring the costs down some on both the manufacturing side and customer side to make them more competitively priced. I assume the outgoing ones didn't sell because they were too pricey over their gasoline counterparts. Plus, I think the customer was seeing X-price tag and only 1-2 mpg. C&D did a review of the 09 Sierra Hybrid 4WD and only got 16mpg and it was rated 20/20. Its payload and towing capability dropped considerably from 9500lbs to 6100lbs and payload dropped from 1714lbs to 1418lbs and all of this came with an extra price tag of 5500 over the base Sierra crew cab. They tested a Silverado Hybrid and netted 14mpg with 300miles of towing(they didn't say how many total miles they put on it) http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2009-gmc-sierra-hybrid-instrumented-test

Congrats, Drew!

^ that Avenir is a gorgeous car. I've just never been a Buick fan. But if/when this gets produced it could very well change my mind.

This is what I thought while i was reading.

I'd take your pair over his every day of the week. ELR compared to a CTS-V, EASY! Stingray with a tacky hood sticker, no thanks! You've got yourself quite the pair of cars there, man.

I love the idea of a plug-in hybrid. I feel it gives you a lot more opportunity to take advantage of the electricity for those who have short commutes, like myself. I'd only use gas in that thing on the weekends probably. The reason it wouldn't, in my opinion, is to push the technology out there to more people and then the little better CAFE score if they sell more as well. As small of a bump it would be...a better score is a better score.

^ hahahaha okay okay okay... fair enough...

Whoa Whoa Whoa... I am NOT talking about a merger AT ALL! Just a joint PROJECT. You honestly wouldn't WANT to see two AMERICAN powerhouses build something special to take out all the snobby Euros????

Honestly.. I could rock the 2.0T, with the 20's(that come with the active chassis and magnetic ride) and it would probably be one heck of a car. Wouldn't fast, but this isn't a small car. Nobody should be going 100mph+ in this even if it can handle it, the owners won't be able to. So that's what, 60k? I can't imagine a "bare bones" Cadillac is actually "bare bones" anymore. We just like to add other cool things. Heck, It probably has more than my Escape Titanium in its base trim. I think we underestimate how good the base models are because we, as enthusiasts, always want the extra go-fast parts.