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  • William Maley
    William Maley

    Did OnStar Accidently Confirm An SS Model In 2014?

    William Maley

    Editor/Reporter - CheersandGears.com

    April 25, 2012

    A few days after we caught wind of GM trademarking the SS nameplate, a blogger uncovered an interesting entry in a OnStar document.

    Christopher Price found on OnStar's vehicle compatibility guide that the 2014 Chevrolet lineup includes an "SS Performance" entry. Could this be the mysterious RWD Chevrolet sedan that we've been hearing about for the past few months?

    Source: christopherprice.net, Motoramic

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    2014 Avalanche???

    No Colorado??????

    The Avalanche is puzzling, unless it will be gone for one year to create some demand from previous owners (most likely just a typo).

    Colorado is to be a 2015 model year truck, not calendar year (will be on-sale in calendar year 2014 though). <--- btw, that's the overall discussion from several places, not direct knowledge on my behalf.

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    Enough already it is coming unless there is any 11th hour changes. We know it will be an improved SWB Zeta and it will have the DI V8 as that is why we don't have it now.

    As for the Avalanche it may simply just be that the cancelation of it was recent enough it was not updated here.

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    Well, it doesn't surprise me that GM is planning on some kind of SS; there had always been one SS editions of various GM vehicles over the years.

    The big question is "which" model is getting an SS? It can be a Sierra, it can be a Cruze, it can be a Malibu, an Impala, and maybe even a Sonic! Depending on which model it is (or perhaps more than one model) this may or may not be very interesting to one person or another.

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    Come on guys you are acting like a bunch of honda owners on Auto Blog.

    You know as well as I do that Mark Ruess has made it clear he wanted the SWB Zeta back here after Pontiac left. We also know from public statments From Al Oppenheiser – Vehicle Chief Engineer, Global Rear Wheel Drive Vehicles that they were working on a RWD performance sedan when he said interanlly this was called the 4 DR Camaro and it would be here around 2014.

    The hold up on this car was the improvments the Zeta was getting in cutting weight and the VVT DI V8 that will first be offered in the new Vette.

    The only mystery to this whole deal is what the name is that they chose long ago per Al's statment. The only outstanding factor is that would there be some 11th hour issue that would kill the car at the last moment.

    While GM has been quiet on many of their cars this was one that a few in high places has spoke out on.

    We also it will be limited so don't expect 50,000 plus units and it more than not will be at or just over $40,000 as it will come mostly loaded unless they have changed their minds. Do not expect a V6 right now and if it ever got one it would be a TT V6. Note my pricing is based on the Regal GS. You know a loaded Zeta Sedan will be around the price of a loaded Camaro SS and higher than a Regal GS Turbo.

    Sorry no games here either with CNG as production is so small they will not fool with any odd limited options on an already limited car.

    So forget the typo, Forget the Caprice, Foget a Sonic SS etc.

    Think of this as an Improved, more powerful, lighter [by little] G8 GXP.

    Chevy Builds Performance!

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    chevy_ss.jpg

    C'mon. Don't tell me I'm the only one who thought of this thing.

    Yes I thought of it, but while it is a lovely design and a drivers car maybe, the rear head room looks to be terrible. I do not see this as the actual car.

    Hyper why not have CNG since they all ready do it down there?

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    75,000+ people on the web thought of the SS show car but it will still be a Zeta.

    As for CNG there is nothing wrong with it but it just will not be offered on a limited vehicle in a unproven market. Let the truck intro the umproved systems to the unwashed masses and let them see what the trucks can do and then work it into cars if demand warrants.

    Diesel is a good idea too but when the American market is not crying out for it you can't force them to buy them. These alt fuels need to be prove to the American public and then we will see some growth.

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    75,000+ people on the web thought of the SS show car but it will still be a Zeta.

    Well, yeah. It'll be Zeta, everyone knows that.

    I know I'm dreaming here, but I think it would be nice if a few styling elements below the SS Concept's beltline made it onto whatever comes out next year. My worst fear, which will undoubtedly be confirmed, is that it'll look like those Autoblog renderings that hit the web a few days ago. The Holden Caprice/Chevrolet Caprice has the appropriate roofline and glasshouse to keep those elements of the concept car intact while improving headroom (not that anyone should be pointing out how the SS Concept didn't have any headroom anyway).

    Edited by black-knight
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    75,000+ people on the web thought of the SS show car but it will still be a Zeta.

    Well, yeah. It'll be Zeta, everyone knows that.

    I know I'm dreaming here, but I think it would be nice if a few styling elements below the SS Concept's beltline made it onto whatever comes out next year. My worst fear, which will undoubtedly be confirmed, is that it'll look like those Autoblog renderings that hit the web a few days ago. The Holden Caprice/Chevrolet Caprice has the appropriate roofline and glasshouse to keep those elements of the concept car intact while improving headroom (not that anyone should be pointing out how the SS Concept didn't have any headroom anyway).

    :pokeowned:

    I think you hit it on the head. The beltline styling elements and a few others I really hope are incorporated into the new SS Performance for the Holden Caprice. This would give you one sweet looking ride with room for all. :)

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    The way I look at it is they establish this car as a image model that will show a profit even in low volume it will reflect onto the other cars.

    As time goes on the Zeta will be replaced at some point and with Holden and Chevy becoming one the styling will be adjusted more and more to reflect both brands. The car we get soon will not remain the same for very long.

    I would not be suprised if a expaned Alpha sedan may be based on this model at some point. Or they could take the new Omega and make it smaller so it could share the cost of the flag ship Cadillac with the SS model and even the Poiice Caprice. Cadillac will need a dance partner on the flag ship. The platform may be shared but little else would be.

    Lets face it the Zeta while not as old as the W body is becoming the old platform at GM. If there are enough sales and demand here and down under it would justify the demands of the supporters within GM to do a new RWD platform to replace it in the future. While the Zeta can improve a little more like the W was there are limits on how much. A new car would be like the Alpha with few limits.

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    The hold up on this car was the improvments the Zeta was getting in cutting weight and the VVT DI V8 that will first be offered in the new Vette.

    Essentially the VE-to-VF Commodore transition, then, perhaps minus the DI V8... Makes sense to wait if that lightening up means squeezing a couple of extra MPG for CAFE purposes...

    Edited by ZL-1
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    The way I look at it is they establish this car as a image model that will show a profit even in low volume it will reflect onto the other cars.

    As time goes on the Zeta will be replaced at some point and with Holden and Chevy becoming one the styling will be adjusted more and more to reflect both brands. The car we get soon will not remain the same for very long.

    I would not be suprised if a expaned Alpha sedan may be based on this model at some point. Or they could take the new Omega and make it smaller so it could share the cost of the flag ship Cadillac with the SS model and even the Poiice Caprice. Cadillac will need a dance partner on the flag ship. The platform may be shared but little else would be.

    Lets face it the Zeta while not as old as the W body is becoming the old platform at GM. If there are enough sales and demand here and down under it would justify the demands of the supporters within GM to do a new RWD platform to replace it in the future. While the Zeta can improve a little more like the W was there are limits on how much. A new car would be like the Alpha with few limits.

    I wonder if the new platform could be a lightweight version of an AWD with Twin Turbo 4 & 6 engines for performance as the SS and Police versions and yet have a volume of FWD appliances that are appealing enough to replace all those ugly forgetable FWD appliances from Toyo and Ford.

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    Lets not get too far ahead yet. Just expect a more powerful DI V8 in a RWD sedan. If things go well we may see a AWD special edition later on. The TT Turbo may also appear down the road. For now I expect them to keep it simple for the first year or two and then I would expect special more limited edtitions like Holden does.

    This is more an image car than volume. They will work to keep it fresh.

    The idea that it is going to NASCAR says a lot of what they expect this car will do for Chevys image.

    Also note if they are going to the effort of using it in NASCAR there will be no last min plugs pulled like on the Elcamino etc. GM is already commitied to run the car in that series and will have to build it to make it legal. So even if you hate NASCAR the series is going to do some good in locking the car into production.

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    The idea that it is going to NASCAR says a lot of what they expect this car will do for Chevys image.

    Yes ... and if that "SS" IS the new NASCAR entry and Ch#$r%*et's own press release is to believed, then it MUST be a 2013 model ... unless NASCAR plans to change THEIR rules AGAIN.

    Plus, it MUST have a NEW name to the brand, not an old, recycled name.

    Cort | 38.m.IL | pigValve + paceMaker + cowValve | 5 MCs + 1 Caprice Classic

    CHD.MCs.CC + RoadTrips.hobbies.RadioShows.us66 = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort

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    "Only emptiness remains; it replaces all ... all the pain" __ Martika __ 'Toy Soldiers'

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    Yes NASCAR did make a change.

    The way I saw it explained by NASCAR was it would be 2014 model but it would be available in early 2014. In other words the race car will hit the track in Feb at Daytona and the public will get the cars in Mach? The time span was not much different. It will be like the 2004 GP roll out in March of 2003.

    As for name that is still a toss up as nothing solid has been given. A web site predicting the future can be changed easily.

    It will have a SS tag along with another name and at this point no one outside GM seems to know if it is old or new. The only thing we do know is that Al called it the SS Peformance Sedan and that they had the name chosen at the least a year and a half ago when he spoke of it.

    The name mystery is as deep here as the I Phone 6 release date mystery.

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    CNG won't happen on this car simply because Holden's system is a dedicated CNG system rather than a dual fuel system.

    We don't have the infrastructure for that just yet.

    As for the rest of this, the car will be a sedan so my interest is limited.

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    When are they going to reveal this car? In March I read it was going to show up at the New York International Auto Show, but that didn't happen...

    It should show up next year at the 2013 Daytona 500.

    I thought I read in that article somewhere that it would debut at the Auto Show. Maybe it was a different one I read or maybe I read it wrong.

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    Here is where I saw it at: http://www.jayski.com/teams/chevy.htm

    Chevy to replace Impala in 2013 with another Chevy brand: Chevrolet is developing a new car with a new name for its 2013 NASCAR entry, replacing the Impala used by Team Chevy, and plans to eventually market and sell the new model to consumers. The dealership and racing versions of the car will be unveiled this year, after the New York auto show in April, spokesman Monte Doran said. The new car will use a nameplate not currently in Chevy’s lineup. Neither the car nor its name will be a derivative of an existing one, such as the new Malibu or the upcoming redesigned Impala, Doran said. General Motors wouldn’t reveal details. “We are keeping the wraps on the new car for now and will continue to prepare for next season by testing camouflaged vehicles,” Jim Campbell, vice president of Chevrolet performance vehicles and motorsports, said in a statement. “We know that Chevrolet fans are eager to see the new race car, and we hope that the prospect of being able to own one just like it will make the wait a little more bearable.”

    The new car may be a version of the Chevy Caprice currently imported from Australia for U.S. police forces. Inside GM, a plan to develop a Chevy performance sedan like the Caprice for consumers was on-and-off in recent years because of concerns that it wasn’t a high-profit vehicle, people familiar with the situation said. Australia’s Holden brand currently offers consumers a variation on the U.S. Caprice. Along with developing the new performance sedan, GM is redesigning the current Impala, which will be built at the Detroit-Hamtramck plant and is expected to hit showrooms by spring 2013. The automaker is also rolling out a redesigned Malibu.(Detroit Free Press, more at MotorTrend and a past post at AutoWeek)(3-13-2013)

    I did read it somewhat wrong though. It just says after the auto show, not at the auto show...

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    We will see the race car soon as they will begin testing it shortly. I assume the street car may show up at a show this year even before this years NY show.

    This is one they will have a hard time hiding since the track testing will leave it out in the open. They still can hide the name but some of the body details will be shown even in primer.

    Might note too I have noticed Jimmy johnson Lowes car has adopted the old Chevelle SS Stripe. Also he used a special GM Color at Kansas that was used ont he Chevelle and Camaro.

    Note I corrected my early AM typo post for those who tend to be overtly immature.

    Edited by hyperv6
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    As for name that is still a toss up as nothing solid has been given. A web site predicting the future can be changed easily.

    It will have a SS tag along with another name and at this point no one outside GM seems to know if it is old or new. The only thing we do know is that Al called it the SS Peformance Sedan and that they had the name chosen at the least a year and a half ago when he spoke of it.

    True, a web site predicting the future can be changed, but a PRESS RELEASE by GM canNOT be changed. That press release stated a NEW name to the brand, which means that it canNOT be an old nameplate. Period. Ch#$r%*et wasn't smart enough to clarify.

    And, it doesn't sound like a change, per se. The car will be a 2014 model, available in 2013. So, the nameplate raced WILL be a nameplate sold at the dealerships at the same time.

    Cort | 38.m.IL | pigValve + paceMaker + cowValve | 5 MCs + 1 Caprice Classic

    CHD.MCs.CC + RoadTrips.hobbies.RadioShows.us66 = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort

    * rNwJumpStartCruzNite | 5:30-10:30p; SAT, 05/12/12 | BeefVilla, 1225 W Spring St, S Elgin IL *

    "Play with the fire and your gonna get burned" __ Steve Wariner __ 'Some Fools Never Learn'

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    New name can be taken different ways. Is it a new name never used before or is it a new name that is not being currently used. It could go either way. We only know for sure is it already has one per GM, it is just unknown to us.. To me it matters little what it is called as I have no hang up it has to be a old or new name mor the number off doors it has. I just want it built.

    Note just some trivia. The Fiero name was originally the Peguses and was changed so late for some unknown reason today to Fiero so late was the change that the emblem kept the Flying Horse in it. GM fell back to a name Fiero that they claimed ment Proud in Itallian and chosen outr of a book in a late night meeting. But that did not explain the use of the name in 1a 968 show car the Firebird Fiero where it ment FIrebird Aero Concept. In other words the one name was rejected and they pulled out one they owned the rights to and semi applied a meaning to it.

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    This is exciting as no one seems to have seen any new Name filing with the pattent office so I must assume the name will be new, but old. One they already have the rights to use but has not been in use for the last 10 years or longer.

    Wonder if this car could be a new Beretta or GTO?

    Looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_General_Motors

    I have to assume the name will be something from their history bin.

    Anyone have a complete list of Auto Names for GM?

    Forbes has a interesting story on Weirdest, worst and best names in the auto industry. Not sure I totally agree with them. http://www.forbes.com/2004/07/12/cx_dl_0712feat.html

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    Someone brought up Monte Carlo as a possible name, which makes sense given the NASCAR angle. I guess we just have to wait and see..

    I could understand this if it was not for the fact that allot of people do not have the best memories of this car. With GM having owned so many other car companies, they are sitting on a ton of new / Old names. That is why I think they could pull something out of the Pontiac/Oldmobile/ older current names.

    New/Old Auto Names

    Chevy Torpedo

    Chevy BelAir

    Chevy Firebird

    Chevy Skylark

    Chevy Cutlass

    Chevy Hellcat

    I think the name used will be older than 10-15 years old from the history bins.

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    The only one i san see out of those making any sense is Bel Air. Even GM isn't stupid enough to trip over its own history and give a Buick, Olds, or Pontiac name to a Chevy, especially the storied ones like you mentioned.

    Given that the car is a cousin of the Caprice, Bel Air is appropriate from a historical perspective. Whether or not it belongs on a performance-themed sedan is up for debate, but I'd be for it.

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    It is "new car" with a "name not currently" in the "North American" "Chevrolet brand"

    lots of wiggle room there.

    The only one i san see out of those making any sense is Bel Air. Even GM isn't stupid enough to trip over its own history and give a Buick, Olds, or Pontiac name to a Chevy, especially the storied ones like you mentioned.

    Given that the car is a cousin of the Caprice, Bel Air is appropriate from a historical perspective. Whether or not it belongs on a performance-themed sedan is up for debate, but I'd be for it.

    It also kinda goes with Malibu.

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    It is "new car" with a "name not currently" in the "North American" "Chevrolet brand"

    lots of wiggle room there.

    The only one i san see out of those making any sense is Bel Air. Even GM isn't stupid enough to trip over its own history and give a Buick, Olds, or Pontiac name to a Chevy, especially the storied ones like you mentioned.

    Given that the car is a cousin of the Caprice, Bel Air is appropriate from a historical perspective. Whether or not it belongs on a performance-themed sedan is up for debate, but I'd be for it.

    It also kinda goes with Malibu.

    Well, the Commodore was sold as the Lumina SS in the Middle East...but I can't see Lumina making an NA comeback. Chevelle, Laguna, or Caprice would be good choices, IMO. Past Chevy big car names like Bel Air, Delray, Biscayne seem too old-timey, along with Fleetline, Master, Master Deluxe, etc...

    Edited by Cubical-aka-Moltar
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    Commodore means little to most Americans. I would include it in the possibilities but I would rate it as a low chance of beig used.

    I had considered Laguna but it was not real popular. I had considered Bel Air SS I like the sound and it would fit with the Caprice in a way as in the past Chevy used different names in the same lime like 210. Biscayne Bel Air etc.

    Chevelle is close to the Malibu but the Chevelle name was never used on small FWD car.

    Nova is too cheap of a name to use on a $40K car.

    I hate to say it but Monte Carlos connection to NASCAR is strong and it has been a big name for Chevy for years. Adding two doors did not hurt the Challanger like many thought and adding two doors to a powerful great handling sports sedan should do well.

    As much as I would love to see an older name not used in along time like Bel Air I thing it may get Monte Carlo in the end. Just a hunch.

    You can forget Lumina, Cutlass, GTO or any other division name. GM looks like they are keeping a little retro in all their new cars. Most seem to use a old name or like the impala updated older emblems.

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    Anyone paying attention that a V6 may be on for 2015 and the wagon and ute car being considered on the Zeta II.

    I know we have been throught this before but with Mark running the NA market and chapter 11 issue now behind they may have a chance. This may be why we are seeing Chevy push a limited edition sedan in NASCAR. It kind of make sense now.

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    This is exciting as no one seems to have seen any new Name filing with the pattent office so I must assume the name will be new, but old. One they already have the rights to use but has not been in use for the last 10 years or longer.

    Yes, I've thought about that, too.

    *rolls eyes*

    It is "new car" with a "name not currently" in the "North American" "Chevrolet brand"

    Nice try, Drew. That "name not currently" phrase was in an article. That was NOT the Ch#$r%*et press release.

    THIS is the press release wording:

    The countdown to the debut of Chevrolet’s next NASCAR Sprint Cup Series racecar is underway. Chevrolet announced today that for the 2013 season, Team Chevy will be racing a vehicle based on a new nameplate to the brand’s lineup.

    Taking advantage of the new NASCAR rules, which allow manufacturers to display more of their brand identity in their racecars, the new Chevrolet racecar will closely resemble the production version. Both cars will be unveiled in the coming year.

    Since they used the phrase, "new nameplate to the brand's lineup", this implies a name never seen in the lineup before. Oh, I know the wiggle room. Trouble is, Ch#$r%*et, in its INFINITE wisdom, wasn't smart enough TO clarify. Their own fault. Period.

    And, hyper, GM has proven before that it doesn't care whether or not an old name was used on FWD or not. Look at the Nova, Monte Carlo, Impala and Malibu. Besides, I thought this "SS" model was supposed to be RWD, anyway...? And ... adding 2 doors didn't hurt the Charger, not the Challenger.

    Cort | 38.m.IL | pigValve + paceMaker + cowValve | 5 MCs + 1 Caprice Classic

    CHD.MCs.CC + RoadTrips.hobbies.RadioShows.us66 = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort

    * rNw-CC+event: http://rdwhl-capriceclassic.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=whatsgoingon *

    "Can you make these big wheels burn?" __ Ronnie Milsap __ 'Smokey Mountain Rain'

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    LOL! I wasn't rolling my eyes AT you ... I was rolling my eyes at the fact that you pointed out, about which I had been thinking.....

    Cort | 38.m.IL | pigValve + paceMaker + cowValve | 5 MCs + 1 Caprice Classic

    CHD.MCs.CC + RoadTrips.hobbies.RadioShows.us66 = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort

    * rNwJumpStartCruzNite | 5:30-10:30p; SAT, 05/12/12 | BeefVilla, 1225 W Spring St, S Elgin IL *

    "What happened next is hard to tell" __ Ray Stevens __ 'Mississippi Squirrel Revival'

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    LOL! I wasn't rolling my eyes AT you ... I was rolling my eyes at the fact that you pointed out, about which I had been thinking.....

    Cort | 38.m.IL | pigValve + paceMaker + cowValve | 5 MCs + 1 Caprice Classic

    CHD.MCs.CC + RoadTrips.hobbies.RadioShows.us66 = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort

    * rNwJumpStartCruzNite | 5:30-10:30p; SAT, 05/12/12 | BeefVilla, 1225 W Spring St, S Elgin IL *

    "What happened next is hard to tell" __ Ray Stevens __ 'Mississippi Squirrel Revival'

    No offense taken, I am feeling too good and considering opening another bottle of wine. :P You have an awesome weekend. :D

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    This is exciting as no one seems to have seen any new Name filing with the pattent office so I must assume the name will be new, but old. One they already have the rights to use but has not been in use for the last 10 years or longer.

    Yes, I've thought about that, too.

    *rolls eyes*

    It is "new car" with a "name not currently" in the "North American" "Chevrolet brand"

    Nice try, Drew. That "name not currently" phrase was in an article. That was NOT the Ch#$r%*et press release.

    THIS is the press release wording:

    The countdown to the debut of Chevrolet’s next NASCAR Sprint Cup Series racecar is underway. Chevrolet announced today that for the 2013 season, Team Chevy will be racing a vehicle based on a new nameplate to the brand’s lineup.

    Taking advantage of the new NASCAR rules, which allow manufacturers to display more of their brand identity in their racecars, the new Chevrolet racecar will closely resemble the production version. Both cars will be unveiled in the coming year.

    Since they used the phrase, "new nameplate to the brand's lineup", this implies a name never seen in the lineup before. Oh, I know the wiggle room. Trouble is, Ch#$r%*et, in its INFINITE wisdom, wasn't smart enough TO clarify. Their own fault. Period.

    And, hyper, GM has proven before that it doesn't care whether or not an old name was used on FWD or not. Look at the Nova, Monte Carlo, Impala and Malibu. Besides, I thought this "SS" model was supposed to be RWD, anyway...? And ... adding 2 doors didn't hurt the Charger, not the Challenger.

    Cort | 38.m.IL | pigValve + paceMaker + cowValve | 5 MCs + 1 Caprice Classic

    CHD.MCs.CC + RoadTrips.hobbies.RadioShows.us66 = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort

    * rNw-CC+event: http://rdwhl-caprice...rd=whatsgoingon *

    "Can you make these big wheels burn?" __ Ronnie Milsap __ 'Smokey Mountain Rain'

    Again sematics. new only means not being used now. So the fact remains it could go either way.

    Challanger- Charger you knew what I ment. Either of these cars mean little to me other than it may make GM bring back RWD. I really don't like either Dodge offering.

    As for FWD/RWD SS can go on anything that has class leading Goes, Stops and Turns ability.

    The Coibalt and HHR SS are good examples where FWD cars done right can out perform many and most SS from the past stock. Modified they are also still right there with the times I have seen posted. The market now has a strong FWD following and if you do not address it sales will be lost. SS mean performance and if used on a proper car I have no issue. Now the 85 Monte Carlo and 96 Malibu SS are reasons not to use SS unless it has real performace ability in all areas.

    We should know soon enough what the new name will be. To me it matters little as long as the car is right for the class in performance and styling.

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    Again sematics. new only means not being used now. So the fact remains it could go either way.

    True, it could go either way. BUT...the idea that "new" only means "not being used now" is shaky, at best, particularly since it was used in an article and NOT in the official GM press release.

    The wording of that infamous press release is:

    Team Chevy will be racing a vehicle based on a new nameplate to the brand’s lineup.

    The wiggle room here would've been far greater had Ch#$r%*et had the wisdom to leave it as "...a vehicle based on a new nameplate." It would've been very clear had they noted it as "a vehicle based on a new nameplate not currently used." But, instead, they added the phrase "to the brand's lineup." If the name is Monte Carlo, Chevelle, Caprice, etc., that will make that entire statement FALSE since all of those names are NOT new nameplates to the brand's lineup.

    Arguing semantics? Yes. BUT ... if an individual had made that sort of statement, the public would've torn that individual to pieces. I'm tired of us as a society ragging on individuals for miscues like this, but letting companies get away with crap, extortion, etc. Not acceptable.

    And, frankly, it never bothered me that "SS" was used on FWD at all.

    Cort | 38.m.IL | pigValve + paceMaker + cowValve | 5 MCs + 1 Caprice Classic

    CHD.MCs.CC + RoadTrips.hobbies.RadioShows.us66 = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort

    * rNwJumpStartCruzNite | 5:30-10:30p; SAT, 05/12/12 | BeefVilla, 1225 W Spring St, S Elgin IL *

    "How could I be so blind?" __ Charly McClain __ 'Who's Cheating Who'

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    There was never any "96 Malibu SS" car, ;-)

    True, but this does not seem to go with what their press release says. I still think they are going to pull something out of the bag from a dead brand.

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    There was never any "96 Malibu SS" car, ;-)

    Ok so we found one person that cared? Sorry LOL!

    The 2006 Malibu SS. :rolleyes:

    :confused0071: You telling me that poser was an SS????? :rage:

    JK I see the sarcasm in your eyes! :P

    Edited by dfelt
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    • "Tired of the Voom, Voom, Voom of a performance Borla exhaust, ... " Nope. 
    • Tired of the Voom, Voom, Voom of a performance Borla exhaust, the wife asked for a new ride. This is my journey of what I experienced in working to buy/lease an EV in 2024. Let me first start off by saying that I am in no way a normal sized human. At 6 foot 6 inches 300 lbs with a 40 inch long legs, I am much larger and big bone than most Americans. My wife being of Korean descent is also larger than most at 5 foot 8 inches compared to the average female height of 5 foot in Korea. The USA census has the average female at 5 foot 4 inches tall and the average male at 5 foot 9 inches tall. With this knowledge of size, subcompacts, compacts are totally out of the question. I know mid-size to full-size is where our EV choices will be. My journey started with me asking myself, what are the Pro's and Cons of buying versus leasing an Electric Vehicle (EV). This image above pretty much wraps up what I came up with for leasing versus buying an EV and there was just one last thing to consider, technology. Battery Technology, controller boards and software are all in their infancy and as such will be probably changing greatly over the next few years. Do I take on the risk of buying and having the OEM stop updates to my EV or do I lease and go with trading it in and getting current technology in a new EV two or three years later? 2023 was an explosive year for auto companies as everyone was pushing to get an EV on the marketplace. Some made it with less than stellar results and others delivered. Trucks, SUVs and cars pretty much allowed one to have a selection of what style of EV they wanted. For my wife and I we had already decided to ignore the cars and focus on the SUVs and Trucks. With that in mind we made up the following list of EV companies to consider. BMW Cadillac Ford Genesis Hyundai Kia Mercedes Rivian Tesla A busy weekend ensued and the experiences of driving so many different EVs showed where some succeeded and others fell short. Clearly some are still holding onto ICE (internal combustion engine) legacy engineering approach and others delivered on what is called a clean sheet design. Here was our weekend experience with the following brands: BMW - iX was a nice drive, interface experience was fine, it actually had plenty of room in the front, a little tighter in the back but for short drives, another person my size could sit behind me and would be fine. Exterior is a styling love / hate experience. Wife is not a fan of the huge kidney bean grill; she said it looked like a pig nose on steroids. The side profile was fine, and the back end looked like it was pinched in molding the design. Android Auto / Apple Carplay supported, overall, it would still be considered. Salesperson was polite and not pushy. Cadillac - Lyriq was the quietest drive of the day, Cadillac has nailed it, fast, solid and overall, a luxury EV ride. Interior over all was good, a little tight on head space with the sky roof, but the seat goes down far enough to adjust for that, interface of the dash was good. Android Auto / Apple Carplay is supported for the 2024 model year but is supposedly going away for the 2025 model year being replaced with the GM play store. Exterior styling my wife was fine with, better front end looks than the BMW. Would be on the consideration list. Salesperson was polite and not pushy. Nice balance of buttons to touch screen. Ford - Test drove an F150 Lighting and the Mach e, interior was fine, she liked the space and comfort. Was hoping for a midsize pickup truck, so ruled out the Lighting. Mach e she liked, both fit comfortably and clearly anyone could sit behind me my size and smaller. Android Auto / Apple Carplay supported. Major dislike was the salesperson who was very pushy and made comments that told my wife he was a male chauvinistic pig. He actually told me to man up as the wife would drive whatever I decided since I was the man. Big mistake as we do everything in equal partnership, so his approach failed to work. Mach e is still in consideration, we will go with another salesperson, maybe even another dealership. Genesis - GV60 / GV70, exterior was fine, though the GV60 she did say reminded her of a jellybean. Interior was very luxurious, but no one could sit behind me in the GV60, would be fine for short trips in the GV70. Android Auto / Apple Carplay supported. Interface was easy to use. She loved the interior but had reservations on the exterior but could not put her finger on it. GV70 would be in consideration. Nice balance of buttons to touch screen. Hyundai - Ioniq 5 SUV. She was not wowed by the exterior, felt it was sitting a bit low, bunker style, yet interior had plenty of room, Android Auto / Apple Carplay supported. Solid candidate to consider. Salesperson was nice, normal pushy attempts to have us make a decision, but as we told him, we still had others to test drive. Nice balance of buttons to touch screen. Kia - EV6 / EV9 - Exterior was not bad, was clearly different than many of the other EVs we had seen. EV6 is super tight inside for me, was fine for the wife as was the interface of their dashboard. No one could sit behind me. EV6 was out she said. EV9 was great, more room inside than our Escalade. Anyone could sit behind me, spacious for both of us and would transport anyone in comfort. Liked the exterior styling much more than many of the others we had test drove to date. Android Auto / Apple Carplay supported. Salesperson super nice and not pushy. Solid candidate. Nice balance of buttons to touch screen. Mercedes - EQS, interior was nice, driving was the second quietest behind the Cadillac. Interface was fine, but lower menus seemed cluttered. We liked the interior for the most part, the hard part of this EV was the exterior lack of any real styling. The worst Jellybean style around. Android Auto / Apple Carplay supported, Salesperson was super nice and not pushy, but as we told him when we thanked him for his time, the auto needs an identity. Wife said for her daily driver, this was a hard pass. Rivian - R1T / R1S - Exterior was a win for the wife right up there with the EV9 from Kia. Interior was also a big win as it was spacious and comfortable front and back. Interface was easy to use, over all a nice balance of buttons to touch screen. Sadly, Rivian is off the list as she asked the counselor about Android Auto / Apple Carplay, no support, no plan to support it. Must buy your apps from the Rivian store, failure big time we felt. Bummer as Rivian was a leading candidate for us. Tesla - Due to friends who have Tesla, even with her knowing my dislike for the Tesla CEO, she wanted to check out the Y / X. Overall the experience in talking with their counselor was good, good people skills, they went over the interface with the wife, in the meantime she saw that while I could fit in the Y, no one could sit behind me. in the X I could also fit, but only about 2 inches of space from the back of the seat to the back seat. Wife asked about Android Auto and Apple Carplay, they told her no plans, they offered her a test drive and she passed. Told me it was a bit weird in how you used the single interface in the center of the dash and a few other things, minimalist failure to her. Pass on Tesla. Now that we had spent a long weekend driving so many EVs, I asked her what her thoughts were on what she was leaning towards. She told me give her a few weeks to digest the information and she would let me know. While the wife digested the EV overload of info, I moved onto researching the EV technology of these auto makers. Auto EV Platform Info 2024.pdf One key item is that I do not want to be behind the 8 ball of technology standards. In this case, I am talking about companies that are on 400V platforms versus 800V platforms. in this case, this brings us down to the following, Cadillac, Genesis, Hyundai and Kia as everyone else is on 400V platforms and already have announced that 2025 and 2026 model years will be the conversion to new 800V platforms. Knowing my wife, one does not rush her, when she is ready, she will let me know, weeks passed by and finally one day at breakfast, she said I have an answer for you. I like the Cadillac Lyriq and the Kia EV9 the best. I want heated seats, steering wheel and AWD, otherwise I could care less about other features. In looking on the websites for my local dealerships, the Cadillac dealership that I have bought from before was sold during the pandemic to Brotherton Cadillac of Renton. So Brotherton Cadillac NW is the dealership near me, and the wife and I reviewed all the Lyriqs and settled on the following:  Cadillac Lyriq Sport 2 AWD Celestial Metallic. This paint color is a color shifting paint that covers purple to silver / grey spectrum depending on the light of the day and especially as I discovered sun versus rain. In the sun it is a radiant purplish color and under dark raining weather a serious silver/dark grey.     Chuck Olson Kia which is less than a mile away from Brotherton Cadillac NW on HWY 99 here in the greater Seattle area had a nice assortment EV9s in Wind, Land and GT versions. They had the traditional blue GT and an Ice Green that the wife really liked. So I settled on the Ice Green to test drive and see what the final price would be. Again, like the Lyriq, the ICE Green metallic paint job has a dominant blueness but turns various shades of lite green to greenish blue depending on the light of the day. At this point we get to the nitty gritty of the dealing, Price paid, rebates, final pricing to determine what the deal ends up being. Over dinner, the wife and I discussed the options of buying versus leasing and to both of us, it made sense at this early stage to lease rather than buy an EV. The addition of the IRA $7,500 rebate also played into our decision. For Cadillac the Lyriq qualifies again for the full $7,500 rebate whether you buy or lease, in the case of the Kia, due to manufacturing in Korea, the EV9 only qualifies for the rebate if you lease. This fall, Kia and Hyundai start manufacturing in the US allowing their EVs to get the full $7,500 rebate if buying. For me, I wanted to see what a zero down Lease deal would be as a starting point before paying down. Depending on credit rating, most auto leases require anywhere from $3,000 to $10,000 down and of course the more you pay down, the lower your monthly payment is. The nature of my work allows me flexibility and as such, I was able to go on a Friday morning at 10am to the Brotherton Cadillac NW to test drive the Lyriq Sport 2 edition. In fact the EV is still on the lot now almost two weeks later. New 2024 Blue Cadillac 4dr Sport w/1SJ LYRIQ for Sale North of Seattle, VIN = 1GYKPVRL1RZ127387 (brothertoncadillacnw.com) Upon driving onto the lot, I parked and saw the Lyriq as it shinned in the morning sun giving that purplish glow that my wife liked. I walked up and checked it out externally and it looked great. After about 10 minutes of checking the Lyriq out, I was still not approached by anyone, so I went into the sales floor and asked if I could talk with someone about a Lyriq. First salesperson said I needed to talk to their EV specialist and walked away, a second person came out of a side hallway and asked if I was being taken care of and I told them what just happened, and I was still standing here. He did apologize and asked me to wait just a moment and he would get the specialist.  A young man came out, introduced himself and asked me if I had any special model in mind and if I wanted to take a test drive. I took him out to show him the one I was interested in. He took down their special code and left to get the keys. At this point, over all experience with the dealership was not bad, neutral for me as it is nothing personal, just business and some do it better than others. The sales rep returned with the keys, he opened up the Lyriq and took me on a tour of the auto pointing out many of the features and explaining the functional differences between how it works on the EV versus an ICE auto. This I have to say was very welcomed as it showed me the man had knowledge of the auto and could show / explain to me how it was to be used. I appreciate this as my wife is not a tech person but show her how to do it and she it set, so this was a good start. We did the traditional driver's license and insurance validation, signed on the dotted line and I then took off for a road trip in the Lyriq. Android auto works as expected, over all interface was easy to understand and use with a nice balance of common used items in physical form right under the screen. Steering wheel had all the expected buttons and dials for using the auto. The Noise canceling of the auto gave it a quiet ride that I have never experienced before and still to this day is the best yet of all the EVs I have test driven.  Negative of the Lyriq is that it is not a true SUV, you sit lower more car like and headroom while I would be fine, required me to drop the seat to the bottom of it's settings which makes my driving position even lower. Knowing that this is the wife's auto, I returned to the dealership to talk price. Here is where things started to go south and why people hate dealerships. I tried my best to negotiate in good faith for a fair price on the EV. The dealership replied that it was the hottest ride available and as such no discounts, you paid the price they had on the auto which was MSRP plus $5,000. I informed them that no I was not going to pay over MSRP for an auto that shows over 300 are available in the greater Seattle area.  The Dealership then said fine, they would sell it at MSRP to me. Knowing that I get $7,500 off I was not put off by this but also not happy that they would not go down on the price. I told them at this point I was interested in leasing and wanted to see what the lease rate would be for 15,000 miles a year for three years. Here is where it got ugly.  The sales rep came back to me and had a handwritten piece of paper with a TRD (Total after Rebates and Discounts) price, Lease money factor number, Residual price and monthly payment including tax. The monthly payment was a little over $1,200 a month. I asked to see firm numbers showing the selling price minus the IRA rebate, tax, etc. all lined up so that I can understand the numbers. I was informed this is how leases are done, your rebate is figured into the residual amount and that this is all the accurate info they provide the buyer. If I agree to this, they can then process and sell me the Lyriq. I told the man that this handwritten paper did not explain any of what I asked to verify and see, so they would need to properly print out or hand write all details in order for me to make a decision. The rep left and was gone for about 10 minutes and then came back with another salesperson who reminded me of a traditional wild west snake oil salesman who tried to use the same paper I was shown and yet tell me I was not able to understand the complexities of leases and should trust him on this awesome monthly cost. When I told him I would not accept that vague random info, he then moved into the terrible game of "What can you afford a month?" Here is where many people either give up and accept or leave as they feel overwhelmed, I on the other hand laughed and told him that I would not play his game. Show me the valid real numbers with a final price on the Lyriq before processing for the Lease monthly amount.  My wife always told me I was a very frustrating person when it came to buying an auto as I would push for facts and have on more than one occasion made salespeople cry when they could not get their way playing their monthly afford game. This is how people get ripped off and taken advantage of. The two folks left and came back with the sales manager who tried again with the paper to spin a different tale. At this point, I said fine, I would consider this as I needed to talk with the wife, and she would need to drive the auto anyway before we would buy.  Leaving the Cadillac dealership, I drove south to Chuck Olson Kia, figured I would see how the EV9 drove again and see what kind of deal I could get. Arriving at the dealership, I saw the EV9 I was interested in on the lot, looked it over and turned around to see if I can get some help and a young man greeted me and said he was with another customer, but would let another salesperson know I was looking at that EV9. Only a few minutes later, the sales rep came out, greeted me and had the keys so he opened up the EV and showed me the SUV.  Here the experience was similar in that we took the EV9 in Ice Green for a drive. As I drove it, I was informed about the various features and how they all worked. An overview that was enjoyable as I drove the near silent EV locally. I did notice that it was not as quiet as the Lyriq, but most would not really notice the difference, everything else on the road was far louder. We returned to the dealership and sat down; I asked the rep for the best price on this EV9 he could give me. He left to talk to his manager. Now I was comparing the price of the Lyriq Sport level 2 to this EV9 AWD Land edition and the MSRP price between the two was within a hundred dollars of each other. The EV9 had a number of features that the Lyriq did not have unless I paid substantially more and go to the top end Sport Level 3. At this point the Kia was winning on features giving it a better value due to the two being priced nearly the same. The sales rep came back to the table with a price that was $5,000 off MSRP. I felt based on internet searching that this was a fair price and felt it was good. I asked him then at this price with my IRA rebate of $7,500 what would a three-year lease with 15,000 miles a year cost me per month. The rep said give him a few minutes to have the manager put this in the system and he would come back with a detailed price for me. The salesperson returned about 10 minutes later with a Deal Sheet for me to review. Here is where the difference became clear between this Kia Dealership and the Cadillac Dealership. The Deal Sheet had all the numbers listed out clearly. Any person could walk through this in full understanding. The lease deal, started off with the Stock number for the EV9, had the MSRP listed, discount, then Selling price of the EV9. This was followed by a blank field for accessories or add on sales items as the sales rep explained. The rebate for $7,500 was clearly listed, blank space for Trade, cash cap reduction, license fee, doc fee ending in a final price of the EV that was then broken down by 36 months @ 15,000 miles a year for a Base monthly rental cost and then the sales tax on the whole deal which was broken down into monthly tax rate added to the monthly lease amount. Residual value at the end of the lease, a residual money factor that is a decimal number used to figure out the monthly lease rate. All in all, a very clear understandable deal and the monthly price for the EV9 was $837 per month compared to $1,200 plus for the Cadillac. I told the salesperson that I would need to talk to my wife when she got home tonight and would give him a call back. As I was getting ready to leave, I realized I had forgotten to ask an important question. Could the front driver and passenger windows be tinted to match the rest of the auto. Due to having had skin cancer, blocking out UV plus just having it darker is what I prefer. The sales rep said he believed so but would have to check with his manager and could call me if I gave him my number later. I left him my cell number and headed home. Sitting at home, I was thinking about the experience at the Cadillac dealership and wondering, can it really be that bad at any other dealership? So, I did a search and found the identical Cadillac Lyriq Sport 2 AWD Celestial Metallic at the Bellevue Cadillac dealership and much farther away at Larson Cadillac of Fife. Off to Bellevue I went. Arriving at the Bellevue Cadillac dealership, I was promptly greeted and professionally questioned on the auto I was interested in. The young man was always polite and more than happy to help me. This dealership is one of the newly built from the ground up dealerships that truly echo's Luxury and what I would expect from a luxury dealership. Due to the knowledge of the salesperson like the other dealership, it started off positive, went out to check and see if the auto their website stated they had on hand was actually there. It was, Identical to the one at Brotherton Cadillac NW in Shoreline Washington. At this point, I gave him the same info I had given the other person to see what the pricing would be. Ten minutes later he returned with a printed sheet of paper, that was better than handwritten. Had a set sale price that was a couple thousand off the MSRP, had a rebate of $1,000 showing a reduced price, document fee, licensing and a theft engraving that he said they do on all autos sold there so nothing I could do about not wanting it. The total at the end showed a lease money factor, term, mileage and residual with a base payment of $1,042 dollars. with no money down.  Now two things I noticed, one was that the IRA rebate was not showing anywhere on the paperwork and the second item was that at least their price was over $200 less than the other dealership. I inquired about the $7,500 rebate and he said he did not know and would go ask. Upon returning he said it was factored into the residual value of the Lyriq when I traded it back in. I pointed out that the rebate does not go into a value of the vehicle but is paid to the dealership and so comes off the price of the auto. Things continued to go downhill from here as I was told by him that I did not understand how leasing worked. His sales manager stopped by, and I pointed this out, same response, I do not understand how leasing works. I informed them that I would need to present this to my wife and discuss it with her. They attempted the pressure response of get her on the phone, we can explain it and you can drive home in your new EV. They were not happy with me and would not let me have the paperwork. When they stepped out to talk, I snapped a quick picture of the printed paperwork. Two Cadillac dealerships, two different lease prices on the identically spec / priced Lyriq Sport 2 and no honest showing of where the rebate would end up at.  Heading home this made me wonder about Cadillac and their EV focus which we have since learned in the news has changed to having ICE and EV through 2030 and beyond. At home, I explained my day of EV shopping to the wife, she was disappointed that Cadillac was not forthcoming with their pricing. She liked the looks of the Lyriq as much as the looks of the Kia EV9. At this point the phone rang, and it was the sales rep for Kia. He informed me that yes, the doors could be tinted and that his sales manager if we were willing to move forward with the deal would throw in the front window tinting. We setup an appointment for Saturday morning to go and test drive the EV9 with the wife to ensure she would be happy driving it. For full details on our EV9 Purchase read this story: Now at this point, I figured I would relax for the evening, but I got another phone call from a sales rep at Larson Cadillac who informed me that the Lyriq I was interested was already sold at their dealership, but he could make me another deal on a like existing Lyriq, different color. I informed him that my wife liked the 800V Lyriq in the Celestial Metallic. The man on the other end of the phone said he could see if they could do a trade to get what we were interested in, but he wanted me to understand that the Lyriq was not a true 800V EV. I was surprised by his comment and asked him why it was not a true 800V EV. I learned and have verified that the only EV GM makes that truly can handle 350 kW fast charging is the Hummers, the Lyriq has an 800V electrical system, but the battery packs are first generation and as such only rated at 400V meaning they have a top charging speed of 150 kW. GM is planning to roll out 800V battery packs starting with the Chevrolet and GMC full size pickups. All other EVs will continue to use the 400V battery packs for now. At this point, I thanked the man for his time and would think on it and get back to him. As a person wanting to be current, this takes me to the Kia EV9 only. I did not say anything to my wife about the tech and hoped she would be happy with how it drove. Luckily that was a success the next day. I have spent half my life on the sales side and in training new sales folks there is a pretty basic 5 step process in sales: 1) Greet the customer inquiring what brought them in today 2) Qualify the person on what they want 3) Trial close to see if they are ready 4) Clarify questions and overcome concerns 5) Close the Sale. To accomplish this basic 5 steps, you first have to fully train the individual in what they are selling. Here Cadillac clearly is not or possibly the dealerships are not wanting to ensure everyone know how to sell an EV. Recap of this whole shopping experience is that Kia is nailing it with a professional sales experience, knowledgeable people on their products and a sales / lease process that is clear hiding nothing from allowing you to commit to buying or leasing a new auto. Cadillac on the other hand has left me with the feeling of snake oil salespersons at both dealerships with vague pricing, vague rebates and me wondering just how much they really want to earn my repeat business as I would love to replace my current Escalade with an Escalade IQ, but at this point, Genesis the luxury brand for Hyundai / Kia will reveal their Full Size GV90 ICE/Hybrid/Electric SUV summer of 2024 and I might just be replacing it with a Genesis. Any questions, ask away.   View full article
    • Rivian? Value? That's hilarious.🤣
    • Let me put it this way, The amount of money I saved with the interior having more room inside than my current Escalade and the silent comfort, It is a win to me with not having to deal with any of the ICE maintenance or gas trips. My leasing / buying story should help enlighten you on why leasing an EV is a good thing right now. I am also putting in a Level 2 charger at the house that will be another story on the research, cost, etc. So you can follow up on that story too.
    • I stumbled upon a small meetup this weekend. There's a new custom/restoration shop about two blocks from my home and I was walking to a Casey's to grab a cake donut for my wife (hahaha) and this is right next to the Casey's.  This grey Chevelle was perfect, absolutely perfect. The plate is the name of the shop, Xtreme (restoration, bodywork, modification). I'm sure this is their show piece, and what a piece of work/art it is! I believe the van is theirs as well.  Later that day we ran to Aldi and came across the International Scout. it was far from mint condition, but it was "pretty good" but even cooler to see it just out and about. 
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