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    Spying: Telling the Difference Between the Cadillac CT4 and CT5

      The dead giveaway is the placement of the license plate

    A fresh set of spy shots have come, revealing Cadillac's upcoming CT4 sedan. This will be replacement for the slow-selling ATS.

    But you might be thinking this is the larger CT5, the replacement for the CTS. Both vehicles are dressed up in similar-looking camouflage and have the same overall shape. We'll admit that we were confused when we first laid eyes on the photos, but Autoblog has come to rescue to by having spy shots of both the CT4 and CT5 to help point out differences.

    The key difference between the two models is in the back. If the cutout for license plate is at the bumper and a slightly rounded trunk lid, that's the CT4. If the cutout is higher and the trundled is slightly flatter, that's the CT5. There are some other tells such as the CT4's greenhouse ending closer to centerline of the rear wheels, and the size of side-view mirrors. One item that is similar on both models is the influence of the Escala concept in the front - large grille and slim headlights.

    Both sedans are expected to use an updated version of the Alpha RWD platform.

    Expect to see the CT4 debut sometime towards the end of 2019.

    Source: Autoblog

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    if these sedans do not address

    -having actual nice interiors (on par with MB and Audi etc)

    -usable back seats and cabin space, leg room and girth

    -CUE problems

    -engine / powertrain options that make sense and are clearly tiered (i.e. optional motor actually performs significantly different, V sport available with AWD, turbo with improved operating characteristics, new turbo six optional)

    -get rid of goofy styling and MAYBE even border on stunning

     

    then what is the point

    maybe this is why Johan said fk it

     

    i mean honestly, this doesn't look like any significant movement on the styling meter.

     

    Edited by regfootball
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    2 hours ago, balthazar said:

    A 'CT4' below a 'CT5' is going to be a complete mistake.
    The only successful way forward is 1 sedan (and coupe please) below the CT6.

    I agree mostly but would make an exception if they did a CT3 on a FWD based chassis to compete with A3 and A class, and if they did that to also skip having a true competitor for the 3 series / C class size.  I would rely on the CT5 as the RWD torch bearer in that case.  Then there would be clear distinction in purpose between the small entry Caddy and the CT5.

    Edited by regfootball
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    ATS is selling at about 16K units US, A3 at about 20K. ATS starts @ $39K, A3 @ $32K. IMO, that's close enough to be cross-shopped.
    Bringing out a new model name/structure than the ATS, but smaller & cheaper & FWD, is a recipe for sales disaster.


    Cadillac doesn't have the volume to reach farther downstream, nor should it via its intended reputation. I LIKE the fact that audi starts at less than the median new car price, and Cadillac is healthily above it, and hang the extra 4K units/yr.

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    6 hours ago, balthazar said:

    A 'CT4' below a 'CT5' is going to be a complete mistake.
    The only successful way forward is 1 sedan (and coupe please) below the CT6.

    Probably true, they could price the CT4 at $24,900 and the Equinox would outsell it 3 to 1 because it is a crossover.  Bringing 2 new sedans to a market that isn't buying sedans isn't really a path to success, unless their sedan is insanely good.  Plus you have the Tesla Model 3 now on sale sucking up market share like crazy in this price range. 

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    3 hours ago, regfootball said:

    if these sedans do not address

    -having actual nice interiors (on par with MB and Audi etc)

    -usable back seats and cabin space, leg room and girth

    -CUE problems

    -engine / powertrain options that make sense and are clearly tiered (i.e. optional motor actually performs significantly different, V sport available with AWD, turbo with improved operating characteristics, new turbo six optional)

    -get rid of goofy styling and MAYBE even border on stunning

     

    then what is the point

    maybe this is why Johan said fk it

     

    i mean honestly, this doesn't look like any significant movement on the styling meter.

     

    All true, but sedans are sitting on dealer lots, not flying off them.  Cadillac has had criticism to make an interior on par with Audi for like 20 years and hasn't done it yet, so I don't expect that to change.  If the Alpha platform continues on, where do you get interior space?  

    Maybe they do new engines, they have the 4.2 V8, I would 100% drop that in a CT4-V, if you want to battle AMG you better bring the V8s.  But then you have to battle Tesla, so you need EV's at some point too

    Most car companies say how they will have dramatic, cutting edge styling to attract buyers, Hyundai just made that claim too, and it never happens.  First off, all these cars are designed in a wind tunnel, secondly they have to meet pedestrian impact standards so all the hoods are the same height, then they have to side impact crash tests so the belt line gets high, etc

    So I don't really know what the CT4 and CT5 will do to succeed where the ATS, CTS and STS all failed.  What is different this time around?

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    ATS & CTS have not "failed". ATS is selling 80% of the volume of the A3, but it starts 20+% higher in price. It has also set the segment benchmark in driving dynamics, and has far better packaging than the identical-sized MBCLA.
    Model 3 was unveiled in March of 2016, and only finally had 2 decent and 1 really good month last month. But the lug nuts on Tesla are loose and backing off, and Model 3 deposit cancellations have skyrocketed.

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    1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

    All true, but sedans are sitting on dealer lots, not flying off them.  Cadillac has had criticism to make an interior on par with Audi for like 20 years and hasn't done it yet, so I don't expect that to change.  If the Alpha platform continues on, where do you get interior space?  

    Maybe they do new engines, they have the 4.2 V8, I would 100% drop that in a CT4-V, if you want to battle AMG you better bring the V8s.  But then you have to battle Tesla, so you need EV's at some point too

    Most car companies say how they will have dramatic, cutting edge styling to attract buyers, Hyundai just made that claim too, and it never happens.  First off, all these cars are designed in a wind tunnel, secondly they have to meet pedestrian impact standards so all the hoods are the same height, then they have to side impact crash tests so the belt line gets high, etc

    So I don't really know what the CT4 and CT5 will do to succeed where the ATS, CTS and STS all failed.  What is different this time around?

    lol good point.  remember in Hyundai's case, when they dropped the 2011 Sonata bomb on the market, the perception of their brand styling changed overnight.

    Cadillac had that happen in 92 with the Seville and STS and maybe we can count the original CTS on that.  The 96 Aurora outdid any Cadillac in terms of style (it was supposed to be a Cadillac, right?).  Apart from that its hard to remember many Cadillacs as memorable styling for what, over 30 years?

    Cadillac has reduced itself to a trim package for GM cars, not much more.  Except for the rare few V's and now CT6 v8 models.

    Edited by regfootball
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    41 minutes ago, balthazar said:

    ATS & CTS have not "failed". ATS is selling 80% of the volume of the A3, but it starts 20+% higher in price. It has also set the segment benchmark in driving dynamics, and has far better packaging than the identical-sized MBCLA.
    Model 3 was unveiled in March of 2016, and only finally had 2 decent and 1 really good month last month. But the lug nuts on Tesla are loose and backing off, and Model 3 deposit cancellations have skyrocketed.

    If the ATS and CTS aren’t failures why are both getting cancelled?  Both are slow sellers, compare an ATS to 3-Series sales as that was their original target.  CTS is under 1,000 units a month and it is a car with very little international volume.  Both combined sell less than the CTS did in 2006 and the market has grown since then.  

    Model 3 was a procruon disaster before but it won’t be by the time either of these cars hit the market.

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    My impression is that the CT4 is just a heavy refresh of the ATS with Escala headlights grafted on.

    Which will doom the car to an early death.

    I think Cadillac would fare better with the Genesis approach.

    Now the G70 I feel will take the Cadillac CT4 to town everywhere except driving dynamics. 

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    CT4 = ATS. Same segment, next generation, new name.

    Quote

    Apart from that its hard to remember many Cadillacs as memorable styling for what, over 30 years?

    So where are you looking for 'memorable styling' in sedans from the last 30 years?

    Edited by balthazar
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    9 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    If the ATS and CTS aren’t failures why are both getting cancelled?  Both are slow sellers, compare an ATS to 3-Series sales as that was their original target.  CTS is under 1,000 units a month and it is a car with very little international volume.  Both combined sell less than the CTS did in 2006 and the market has grown since then.  

    Model 3 was a procruon disaster before but it won’t be by the time either of these cars hit the market.

    2

    They aren't. They're getting renamed. Just like the ML wasn't canceled, it was renamed GLE.

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    12 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    They aren't. They're getting renamed. Just like the ML wasn't canceled, it was renamed GLE.

    And yet they refuse to rename the Escalade, so they don’t have to rename anything.  If the CT4 is just a refreshed ATS with a new name that product will fail.  

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    5 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    And yet they refuse to rename the Escalade, so they don’t have to rename anything.  If the CT4 is just a refreshed ATS with a new name that product will fail.  

     

    Why? Why can't it be a heavy refresh?  The ATS is the best handler in the entry-level segment.  The Alpha platform is excellent. 

    A new look and new interior will do wonders for the car... especially if it looks like a baby Escala. 

    And Escalade has more brand equity in its markets than any single BMW, Benz, or Audi.... renaming it would be criminal.  Just like Navigator.

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    What REALLY would make sense is MB having an 'A', 'C', 'E'... and then to maintain consistancy- make the CLS the 'G' and the s-class the 'I'. Every other letter of the alphabet... for consistancy's sake. Would like to see that happen.

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    31 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    The ATS is the best handler in the entry-level segment.  The Alpha platform is excellent. 

    It is yet nobody really seems to care. The buying public is okay with the softer rides of the A4, C-Class, and 3 Series. 

    Edited by ccap41
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    2 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

    It is yet nobody really seems to care. The buying public is okay with the softer rides of the A4, C-Class, and 3 Series. 

    Public needs to make up their effing minds. 12 years ago Cadillac was "too soft" with the CTS.

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    4 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    Public needs to make up their effing minds. 12 years ago Cadillac was "too soft" with the CTS.

    lol I won't disagree with that! 

    The buying public, in general, is just the complete opposite of what most enthusiasts want. Too bad they outnumber us 99-1 and most enthusiasts don't buy new because they know the depreciation and that they don't keep them long enough anyway.

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    1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    Why? Why can't it be a heavy refresh?  The ATS is the best handler in the entry-level segment.  The Alpha platform is excellent. 

    A new look and new interior will do wonders for the car... especially if it looks like a baby Escala. 

    And Escalade has more brand equity in its markets than any single BMW, Benz, or Audi.... renaming it would be criminal.  Just like Navigator.

    It will all be epic fail if they don't carve out more leg room in the back.  Use the ATS-L chassis then.  Believe me every year when i go to autoshows and am in the cadillac area i hear people bitch about how the ATS is a useless car due to its back seat.  Cadillac forgot a lot of its base are large muhricans and even if the ATS were as comfortable as a c class in the rear it would be ok.  But its not.  Cadillac buyers expect more usable space.  Between the useless interior and cheap interior (and pricing) is why the ATS isn't lighting up the sales charts.

     

    So, to redo the car and not fix any of that, they might as well not try.

    1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    Why? Why can't it be a heavy refresh?  The ATS is the best handler in the entry-level segment.  The Alpha platform is excellent. 

    A new look and new interior will do wonders for the car... especially if it looks like a baby Escala. 

    And Escalade has more brand equity in its markets than any single BMW, Benz, or Audi.... renaming it would be criminal.  Just like Navigator.

    I thought the Alfa Romeo Guilia was the new handling champ.

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    1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    Public needs to make up their effing minds. 12 years ago Cadillac was "too soft" with the CTS.

    Maybe Cadillac needs to have a better grasp on what the buying public wants.  They totally missed on crossovers, Lexus has 4 SUVs and is still missing a good 3 row so they rushed out a 3 row RX.  Really you need 5 SUVs in today’s world to compete because sedans aren’t selling.  

    Cadillac thought the ATS would conquest 3-Series sales, it didn’t happen, adding $10,000 to the CTS and moving it up market was a mistake.  Traditional Cadillac buyers have never heard of the Nurburgring so they didn’t care about handling, but that is what Cadillac tried to sell.  

    The only successful Cadillac in the past 10 years has been the Escalade and that is partly because SUVs are on fire, and there has been little competition in that segment, but now the Navigator is back, new GLS, X7, Q8 are coming, Tesla has the Model X,  Bentley and Rolls are in the SUV game, etc.  That market will get crowded fast.

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    9 minutes ago, regfootball said:

    It will all be epic fail if they don't carve out more leg room in the back.  Use the ATS-L chassis then.  Believe me every year when i go to autoshows and am in the cadillac area i hear people bitch about how the ATS is a useless car due to its back seat.  Cadillac forgot a lot of its base are large muhricans and even if the ATS were as comfortable as a c class in the rear it would be ok.  But its not.  Cadillac buyers expect more usable space.  Between the useless interior and cheap interior (and pricing) is why the ATS isn't lighting up the sales charts.

     

    So, to redo the car and not fix any of that, they might as well not try.

    I thought the Alfa Romeo Guilia was the new handling champ.

    Very good points and even the CTS has a small back seat for how large a car it is. With the CTS’s wheelbase there should be XTS level room in that car. 

    I wonder what % of Cadillac buyers are men, vs BMW or Audi buyers?  Because I feel like Cadillac appeals more to men, who on average are taller than women, so that leg room complaint comes up more often.

    And yes the Alfa Romeo is the performance champ and it has over 500 hp.  The ATS-V is down on power, needs a V8.

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      LIBERATING PERFORMANCE
      Some luxury EVs today feature adapted traditional internal combustion engine architecture, that is not the case with LYRIQ. Cadillac’s all-new, modular EV platform on which the LYRIQ is based is the foundation for its liberating performance. With a dedicated EV architecture, its design eliminates significant physical constraints associated with adapting electric propulsion within a conventional vehicle architecture, for an optimized design that supports greater driving range, an engaging driving experience and a new interpretation of passenger space.
      Within the LYRIQ, the Ultium battery system is a structural element of the architecture, integrated in ways that contribute to ride and handling, as well as safety. In fact, the lower center of gravity and near 50/50 weight distribution enabled by the placement of the battery pack results in a vehicle that’s sporty, responsive and allows for spirited driving.
      Additionally, the LYRIQ is driven primarily by the rear wheels, with a performance all-wheel drive option available. The placement of the drive motor at the rear of the vehicle contributes an even greater feeling of balance and agility — attributes that affirm Cadillac’s longstanding commitment to satisfying performance. It also enables the system to channel more torque to the pavement without wheelspin for exhilarating acceleration and greater cornering capability. Vehicles equipped with performance all-wheel drive go a step further, with a second drive unit placed at the front of the vehicle, which allows for a significant amount of tuning flexibility, enhancing vehicle dynamics and performance for drivers.
      ALL-NEW ULTIUM BATTERY SYSTEM
      The Cadillac LYRIQ is powered by GM’s new Ultium battery system, which offers approximately 100 kilowatt-hours of energy to deliver stirring performance.
      Ultium’s state-of-the-art NCMA (nickel-cobalt-manganese-aluminum) chemistry uses aluminum in the cathode to help reduce the need for rare-earth materials such as cobalt. In fact, GM engineers reduced the cobalt content by more than 70 percent, compared to current GM batteries.
      The advanced battery chemistry is packed in large, flat pouch cells that enable smart module construction to reduce complexity and simplify cooling needs. Additionally, the battery electronics are incorporated directly into the modules, eliminating nearly 90 percent of the battery pack wiring, compared to GM’s current electric vehicles. 
      When it comes to charging, LYRIQ offers quick and convenient charging options whether at home or on the go. With DC fast charging, the LYRIQ can charge at rates over 150 kW. 
      ARTFULLY INTEGRATED TECHNOLOGY
      Envisioned to make interaction with its technologies more intuitive and rewarding, the LYRIQ’s partnership with the driver and passengers is simultaneously energizing and artful.
      Upon approach, the LYRIQ recognizes the driver and initiates a “greeting” with a choreographed lighting sequence, while also preparing the cabin for the journey, including seat, mirror and climate system adjustments. Once inside, the LYRIQ offers Cadillac’s highest level of driver information, infotainment and connectivity integration, for a more seamless and rewarding experience.
      A 33-inch-diagonal advanced LED display artfully integrates a single, large screen that spans the viewing area for the driver and incorporates driver information details, infotainment controls and camera views. This new display has the highest pixel density available in the automotive industry today and can display over one billion colors, 64 times more than any other vehicle in the automotive industry, providing a stunning in-vehicle experience unlike anything seen before from Cadillac.
      Additional technology and interactive highlights include:
      Battery and charging monitoring conveyed by easy, at-a-glance graphics. The system identifies the vehicle’s energy needs at home and on the go, according to owner preferences, while also monitoring and forecasting energy consumption and providing charging suggestions. New dual-plane augmented reality-enhanced head-up display employs two planes: a near plane indicating speed, direction and more, and a far plane displaying transparent navigation signals and other important alerts. The latest version of Super Cruise, the hands-free driver assistance feature, including automated lane change.3 Supervised remote parking that uses ultrasonic sensors to help the LYRIQ park itself in parallel or perpendicular parking spaces — whether the driver is inside or outside of the vehicle.4 SENSE OF SOUND
      LYRIQ’s technology also addresses sound in two important ways: Blocking unwanted sounds and making the most of the sounds passengers want to hear.
      For the first time, Cadillac will introduce a new road noise cancellation technology, which takes active noise cancellation to the next level by introducing more microphones and accelerometers, which improve noise cancellation abilities. With this new system, Cadillac’s performance and audio engineers can target the frequency range of tire cavity noise, reducing the noise level in the vehicle and allowing for a quieter in-cabin experience.
      The Cadillac LYRIQ builds on the brand’s exclusive partnership with AKG. “With LYRIQ we wanted to deliver a sound experience that would transport the driver from a vehicle into a recording studio,” said Hussein Khalil, Cadillac lead audio design release engineer. “With the AKG sound system, we are able to deliver this experience along with the quality and reliability luxury customers expect.”
      At launch, LYRIQ will offer a 19-speaker AKG Studio audio system that delivers exceptionally crisp and precise sound reproduction, enabling drivers and passengers to enjoy their favorite music.
      NEW FACE OF CADILLAC
      Cadillac’s first electric SUV makes a bold design statement that introduces a new face, proportion and presence for the brand’s new generation of EVs. It’s a forward-looking vision unconstrained by the needs of a traditional internal combustion engine and driveline.
      “The LYRIQ represents the next iteration of the iconic brand’s styling, enabled by electrification, as only Cadillac can express,” said Andrew Smith, executive director, Global Cadillac Design. “Inside and out, LYRIQ is a thoughtful integration of design and technology and is intended to make every drive an occasion.”
      Defined by taut lines and clean surfaces, LYRIQ is assertive and modern, characterized with a low, fast roofline and wide stance that emphasize agility and convey confidence. Additional details such as a flow-through roof spoiler express the careful attention paid to aerodynamics to optimize efficiency on the highway.
      A distinctive “black crystal” grille in the front is one of the LYRIQ’s most unique and expressive design elements. It is also a dynamic feature, as it is part of a dramatic lighting choreography that — along with bold vertical, slim LED signature lighting — greets the owner upon approach. At the rear, a split taillamp design incorporates slim LEDs that are also integrated into the lighting choreography.
      Inside, the LYRIQ’s new electric vehicle architecture opens up possibilities in vehicle spaciousness and design; and Cadillac designers used this as an opportunity to rethink how to use the space and where to locate various interior elements.
      The result is a more airy, minimalistic design that does more to involve the driver and passengers in the driving experience while offering exceptional functionality when it comes to storage solutions. It is also brimming with subtle yet obsessive details such as backlit speaker grilles, curved screens with hidden storage and, like the exterior, orchestrated lighting features.
    • By David
      Cadillac division sent out this email saying that the Cadillac Lyriq reveal will be August 6th 2020 @ 7PM. 
      Now the interesting part is what time zone? EST, MST, PST,.......... 🤔

    • By William Maley
      The Hyundai Santa Cruz has been talked about off and on since its debut as a concept in 2015. But it seems the truck is finally coming to fruition as some new spy shots reveal.
      Compared to the concept which was an extended cab, Hyundai is using a crew cab layout. The bed is quite short, possibly around four to five feet being our guess. Up front, the Santa Cruz gets the same front end treatment as the refreshed 2021 Santa Fe - wider front grille and new headlight treatment.
      Following in the footsteps of the Honda Ridgeline, the Santa Fe will be based on a unibody platform. In this case, the Santa Fe. This likely means power will come from either the 2.4L four-cylinder with 185 horsepower and 178 pound-feet of torque or turbocharged 2.0L four-cylinder with 235 hp and 260 lb-ft. Our money is on the latter engine. 
      Expect more details to come out on the Santa Cruz before its launch next year.
      Source: Autoblog, Car and Driver

      View full article
    • By William Maley
      The Hyundai Santa Cruz has been talked about off and on since its debut as a concept in 2015. But it seems the truck is finally coming to fruition as some new spy shots reveal.
      Compared to the concept which was an extended cab, Hyundai is using a crew cab layout. The bed is quite short, possibly around four to five feet being our guess. Up front, the Santa Cruz gets the same front end treatment as the refreshed 2021 Santa Fe - wider front grille and new headlight treatment.
      Following in the footsteps of the Honda Ridgeline, the Santa Fe will be based on a unibody platform. In this case, the Santa Fe. This likely means power will come from either the 2.4L four-cylinder with 185 horsepower and 178 pound-feet of torque or turbocharged 2.0L four-cylinder with 235 hp and 260 lb-ft. Our money is on the latter engine. 
      Expect more details to come out on the Santa Cruz before its launch next year.
      Source: Autoblog, Car and Driver
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