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  • William Maley
    William Maley

    GM To Launch Two New EVs Within 18 Months, 20 Hydrogen and EVs By 2023

    A mix of electric and hydrogen vehicles


    General Motors is the latest automaker that is preparing for an emissions-free future. Today at GM's technical center in Warren, MI, the company announced plans to introduce 20 electric and hydrogen vehicles by 2023. The first two models of this plan will launch in the next 18 months and will be "based off learnings" from the Chevrolet Bolt.

    “General Motors believes in an all-electric future. Although that future won't happen overnight, GM is committed to driving increased usage and acceptance of electric vehicles through no-compromise solutions that meet our customers' needs,” said Mark Reuss, General Motors executive vice president of Product Development, Purchasing and Supply Chain in a statement.

    Those who were at the technical center got a preview of three clay models featuring the next-generation electric powertrain - a Buick crossover (Encore replacement?), Cadillac wagon, and a pod-looking vehicle.

    GM is also working on building out vehicles using hydrogen powertrains.

    "General Motors believes in an all-electric future... Our electric solution cannot be 'one size fits all.' We believe you need two different flavors of electrification — battery electric and fuel cell electric."

    GM showed off SURUS (Silent Utility Rover Universal Superstructure) which takes the idea of the skateboard hydrogen chassis from the Hy-Wire concept and makes it quite larger - about the size of a commercial truck chassis.

    Source: Automotive News (Subscription Required), Green Car Reports , Roadshow, GM
    Press Release is on Page 2


    GM Outlines All-Electric Path to Zero Emissions

    DETROIT — General Motors announced today how it is executing on a major element of its vision of a world with zero crashes, zero emissions and zero congestion, recently announced by GM Chairman and CEO Mary Barra.

    “General Motors believes in an all-electric future,” said Mark Reuss, General Motors executive vice president of Product Development, Purchasing and Supply Chain. “Although that future won't happen overnight, GM is committed to driving increased usage and acceptance of electric vehicles through no-compromise solutions that meet our customers' needs.”

    In the next 18 months, GM will introduce two new all-electric vehicles based off learnings from the Chevrolet Bolt EV. They will be the first of at least 20 new all-electric vehicles that will launch by 2023.

    Given customers' various needs, getting to a zero emissions future will require more than just battery electric technology. It will require a two-pronged approach to electrification — battery electric and hydrogen fuel cell electric depending on the unique requirements.

    GM also introduced SURUS — the Silent Utility Rover Universal Superstructure — a fuel cell powered, four-wheel steer concept vehicle on a heavy-duty truck frame that’s driven by two electric motors. With its capability and flexible architecture, SURUS could be used as a delivery vehicle, truck or even an ambulance — all emissions free.


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    Interesting, I get hedging your bet with some Hydrogen ideas, but I really doubt they will be the big win. EV is the future I see.

    Just wish GM was more aggressive here than they currently are.

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    I don't think Fuel Cells are going to catch on, car companies have tried it for 10 years now, no one wants it.  Good to see them planning a lot of EV's, I don't think the Bolt's shape or a Cadillac wagon is the way to go, but if they build sedans and crossovers those will sell.

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    I suspect that GM will build whatever form of electric vehicle that will sell.  The platforms are more important since they can theoretically switch from sedan to crossover to minivan with just a body switch at relatively low cost.

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    3 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    I don't think Fuel Cells are going to catch on, car companies have tried it for 10 years now, no one wants it.  Good to see them planning a lot of EV's, I don't think the Bolt's shape or a Cadillac wagon is the way to go, but if they build sedans and crossovers those will sell.

    fuel cells, "HCCI"... we'll see about the 2nd from Mazda, hopefully "soon" in production(2019 model)

    Riv, yeah, if the "powertrain" can be modular, just pull it out if it's a flop and and change it to the other version...

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    Pretty sure this was new Tesla did not want to hear...

    That said- While I love the idea- I'm not sure we as a country are ready for the demand (power) just yet.

    Now, if we can get more solar into folks homes to power their cars/trucks, it would really help....

    If I were to get a Bolt, I would want to charge off solar power.......

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    10 hours ago, daves87rs said:

    Pretty sure this was new Tesla did not want to hear...

    That said- While I love the idea- I'm not sure we as a country are ready for the demand (power) just yet.

    Now, if we can get more solar into folks homes to power their cars/trucks, it would really help....

    If I were to get a Bolt, I would want to charge off solar power.......

    West coast is ready and the rest will catch up.

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    10 hours ago, dfelt said:

    West coast is ready and the rest will catch up.

    Hope you're right my friend....:)

    Though they are starting to update the power grid around here....so hoping!

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    I wonder how this is going to work with the continued weakness in public interest for electrics?  It's clearly "cart before the horse" and a bit suicidal.  Government regulation is not the same thing as consumer demand.

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    3 hours ago, ocnblu said:

    I wonder how this is going to work with the continued weakness in public interest for electrics?  It's clearly "cart before the horse" and a bit suicidal.  Government regulation is not the same thing as consumer demand.

    First public interest is not weak, as has been stated here by many, the chicken or egg issue in regards to charging and auto options has always been the problem. Many are sitting on the side lines waiting to see what new options they get and many options are coming.

    With this, I see Autoblog did a comparison of sales between the Bolt and Volt and find that many customers prefer the CUV Bolt over the Volt.

    Autoblog story

    Bolt-Volt Sales Comparison.jpg

    Nissan Leaf is also showing the same sales increase for EV's over Hybrids. 

    Like everything and just like ICE in the Early 1900's, those that are willing to adjust their habits are willing to take the ease and savings of owning an EV and charging at their own house or work place and as the Gas Stations become Charging stations with XFC or Xtreme Fast Chargers (Level 4) that gives 300 miles of charge in less than 15 min, we will see habits change on those that are more set in their ways about changing.

    Cart before the Horse maybe, maybe not, clearly I expect you to be one of the last to change over if ever to EV's, yet the bulk of the public will change over in the next 15-20 years as the country changes with the rest of the world regardless of if you believe in Climate change or not. 

    Many are wanting a healthier place to live for themselves, their children and the future of the planet.

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    2 hours ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

    I'd expect Ocn to go Amish with a horse and buggy before an EV... 

    who'd be the bigger horse's ass in that situation?

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    8 hours ago, ocnblu said:

    I wonder how this is going to work with the continued weakness in public interest for electrics?  It's clearly "cart before the horse" and a bit suicidal.  Government regulation is not the same thing as consumer demand.

    I really am starting to think that at the moment it is lack of selection rather than lack of interest.

    If Honda / Toyota / Chevrolet build a completely EV Accord / Camry / Malibu or RAV4 / CR-V / Equinox with range over 200 miles, I really do believe interest in EVs would increase dramatically.

    Right now, consumers have few choices for plug-ins:

    1. Good range, odd Looking / Ugly, but relatively inexpensive - Bolt, Leaf 2.0

    2. usable range, normal looking, relatively expensive compared to platform mates - Pacifica Hybrid, Volt, Fusion Energie, CMax

    3. "why bother?", normal looking, relatively expensive compared to platform mates - Plug-in Pruis, Honda Accord PHEV

    4. "why bother?" range, normal looking, expensive options - All of the BMW and Mercedes plug-ins.  Volvo has a bit more range, but not much.

    5. Good range, normal looking, expensive - Tesla

    6. usable range, normal looking, expensive - CT6 PHEV

     

    With the exception of the Fusion Energi, there is nothing here in the meat of the market.  No crossovers except for the expensive Model X and the Euros. Nothing AWD except for the Teslas and Euros. No trucks. 

    If there is a lack of interest by consumers in making purchases, I'd argue it is because there is a lack of anything interesting to buy.

     

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    27 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    I really am starting to think that at the moment it is lack of selection rather than lack of interest.

    If Honda / Toyota / Chevrolet build a completely EV Accord / Camry / Malibu or RAV4 / CR-V / Equinox with range over 200 miles, I really do believe interest in EVs would increase dramatically.

    Right now, consumers have few choices for plug-ins:

    1. Good range, odd Looking / Ugly, but relatively inexpensive - Bolt, Leaf 2.0

    2. usable range, normal looking, relatively expensive compared to platform mates - Pacifica Hybrid, Volt, Fusion Energie, CMax

    3. "why bother?", normal looking, relatively expensive compared to platform mates - Plug-in Pruis, Honda Accord PHEV

    4. "why bother?" range, normal looking, expensive options - All of the BMW and Mercedes plug-ins.  Volvo has a bit more range, but not much.

    5. Good range, normal looking, expensive - Tesla

    6. usable range, normal looking, expensive - CT6 PHEV

     

    With the exception of the Fusion Energi, there is nothing here in the meat of the market.  No crossovers except for the expensive Model X and the Euros. Nothing AWD except for the Teslas and Euros. No trucks. 

    If there is a lack of interest by consumers in making purchases, I'd argue it is because there is a lack of anything interesting to buy.

     

    It for sure is due to lack of choices.  I think the shape of the Bolt and Leaf hurt sales.  If they were conventional sedans or crossovers they would sell better.  I think that is why there is huge demand for the Model 3, it is a normal sedan, plus Tesla is gotta have brand.

    Plug in hybrids are a stop gap product, in 10 years the batteries will have 300 mile range and recharge in 10 minutes and weigh less than they do now, and at that point why bother with a plug in.  

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    34 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    It for sure is due to lack of choices.  I think the shape of the Bolt and Leaf hurt sales.  If they were conventional sedans or crossovers they would sell better.  I think that is why there is huge demand for the Model 3, it is a normal sedan, plus Tesla is gotta have brand.

    Plug in hybrids are a stop gap product, in 10 years the batteries will have 300 mile range and recharge in 10 minutes and weigh less than they do now, and at that point why bother with a plug in.  

    Not just a stop-gap. They are the stepping stone.  They help create demand for the plug-in infrastructure that is currently lacking. 

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    Had to reread the press release and realized that GM is going to invest in the charging network it sounds like here in the US after stating they would be helping with investing in the XFC system in Europe.

    Fletcher said GM is planning to introduce the new vehicles in key, emerging segments. She also added that GM will help with "accelerating" the deployment of rapid-charging stations for its customers. There are currently more than 1,100 available publicly to GM customers in the United States. She declined to provide further details, citing more details "to come soon."

    So I take this as a positive sign that GM will help with the build out of the charging network and I hope in the details to come that it is all based on XFC systems.

    XFC = Xtreme Fast Charging has two levels, first one is a 350 Volt system. Second level is the one Porsche is pushing the 800 Volt system. Both can charge on par with gas dispensing.

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    5 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    I really am starting to think that at the moment it is lack of selection rather than lack of interest.

    If Honda / Toyota / Chevrolet build a completely EV Accord / Camry / Malibu or RAV4 / CR-V / Equinox with range over 200 miles, I really do believe interest in EVs would increase dramatically.

    Right now, consumers have few choices for plug-ins:

    1. Good range, odd Looking / Ugly, but relatively inexpensive - Bolt, Leaf 2.0

    2. usable range, normal looking, relatively expensive compared to platform mates - Pacifica Hybrid, Volt, Fusion Energie, CMax

    3. "why bother?", normal looking, relatively expensive compared to platform mates - Plug-in Pruis, Honda Accord PHEV

    4. "why bother?" range, normal looking, expensive options - All of the BMW and Mercedes plug-ins.  Volvo has a bit more range, but not much.

    5. Good range, normal looking, expensive - Tesla

    6. usable range, normal looking, expensive - CT6 PHEV

     

    With the exception of the Fusion Energi, there is nothing here in the meat of the market.  No crossovers except for the expensive Model X and the Euros. Nothing AWD except for the Teslas and Euros. No trucks. 

    If there is a lack of interest by consumers in making purchases, I'd argue it is because there is a lack of anything interesting to buy.

     

    VW E-Golf, Focus Electric and 500E all look largely identical to their normal counterparts, yet they sell abysmally.  Mercedes has reduced the number of Smart dealerships to coincide with Smart's dumb move to all-electric... to adjust for demand.  Your argument is silly.

    7 hours ago, FAPTurbo said:

    who'd be the bigger horse's ass in that situation?

    I believe that would be your mother.

    Edited by ocnblu

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    7 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    It for sure is due to lack of choices.  I think the shape of the Bolt and Leaf hurt sales.  If they were conventional sedans or crossovers they would sell better.

    This theory doesn't come CLOSE to being borne out by the sales numbers.

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    2 hours ago, ocnblu said:

    VW E-Golf, Focus Electric and 500E all look largely identical to their normal counterparts, yet they sell abysmally.  Mercedes has reduced the number of Smart dealerships to coincide with Smart's dumb move to all-electric... to adjust for demand.  Your argument is silly.

    I believe that would be your mother.

    All all three of those cars you mention also have very short ranges compared to cars like the Bolt. It’s not hard to figure out the problem there and it has jack squat to do with looks, in this case. 

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    6 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

    All all three of those cars you mention also have very short ranges compared to cars like the Bolt. It’s not hard to figure out the problem there and it has jack squat to do with looks, in this case. 

    One of Drew's apologies for weak electric sales penetration was odd appearance of the big players.  So I met him at that juncture.

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    13 hours ago, ocnblu said:

    VW E-Golf, Focus Electric and 500E all look largely identical to their normal counterparts, yet they sell abysmally.  Mercedes has reduced the number of Smart dealerships to coincide with Smart's dumb move to all-electric... to adjust for demand.  Your argument is silly.

    You just mentioned 3 compliance auto's that are only sold in select states and not available nation wide. On top of that the 500e was killed off. So the argument is not silly it is valid that Drew posted. There is little choice at this time other than Leaf or Bolt.

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    4 hours ago, ocnblu said:

    One of Drew's apologies for weak electric sales penetration was odd appearance of the big players.  So I met him at that juncture.

    Except at that juncture, it is not an apples to apples comparison. 

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    13 hours ago, ocnblu said:

    VW E-Golf, Focus Electric and 500E all look largely identical to their normal counterparts, yet they sell abysmally.  Mercedes has reduced the number of Smart dealerships to coincide with Smart's dumb move to all-electric... to adjust for demand.  Your argument is silly.

    I believe that would be your mother.

    E-Golf - Range 112 miles, starting price $30k, $11k more than a base Golf

    Focus Electric - Range 118 miles city / 96 miles highway, starting price $29k, however, Ford is giving them away with $10k worth of incentives right now

    Fiat 500E - Range 87 miles, starting price $32,600 and only sold in California

    All of those fit in classification #2 of "usable range", "Normal looking", "substantially more expensive than platform mates". 

    Range is still a factor. Anything between 40 miles and 100 miles I consider usable, but not great. Anything over 200 will be able to suit most typical drivers, even if they don't realize it yet.   The Volt gets around the range issue by having the regenerator, it looks like a fancy Cruze, but it is still rather pricey compared to a Cruze.  The three you mentioned still have range anxiety issues being lower than the 200 mile mark. 

    The Bolt is the first in this price class to get over 200 miles to a charge.... my argument is that it would sell even better if it looked more like a normal car instead of an egg.  I personally don't think it looks bad, but I don't think it has visual appeal to the mass market. Bolt powertrain in a Malibu at only a slight premium over an LT model (say something around like the price premium of buying a diesel), and you'd start to see some real movement in sales.   In my own case, I'd like a plug-in, but there are none yet that meet the requirements within our budget.  The closest I can get right now is the new XC60 PHEV. 

    SMART is just dumb anyway, the sales there have been tanking for years and dealers who saw the opportunity to exit, did so.  If I were a Benz dealer, I wouldn't have kept SMART around absent any announcement that they were going to expand the brand into a family car brand.

    11 hours ago, balthazar said:

    This theory doesn't come CLOSE to being borne out by the sales numbers.

    There are no statistics to back up either claim since the vehicles I am referring to do not exist on the market. 

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