Front Drive Mafia of C&G - Official Thread

[FAPTurbo]

I wonder if the Front Wheel Drive crue is going to get a member with one of these...

Cause if they do, I've found my FWD rival.

[ToniCipriani]

I wonder if the Front Wheel Drive crue is going to get a member with one of these...

Cause if they do, I've found my FWD rival.

176101[/snapback]

You're asking for trouble from siegen. He'll come in and argue that it's all wheel drive for days.

[ToniCipriani]

BTW, are we following the Chicago Outfit or the others' model?

Because if it's Chicago's, the Consigliere actually has more power over the Father...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consigliere

[daves87rs]

Heres one that would better suit real FWD GM enthousiasts

176098[/snapback]

I like that one, Razor.

Though I have to say it's better to see that car in person..

[daves87rs]

*looks around*

Quite interesting in here..

Poor ol' me.

All I have is a FWD Cavalier....

[Cory Wolfe]

BTW, are we following the Chicago Outfit or the others' model?

Because if it's Chicago's, the Consigliere actually has more power over the Father...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consigliere

176108[/snapback]

No... But technically Fly does have more power over me. Atleast until I finally become a mod.

[speedy_2]

I don't mind it being FWD when it's this sexy.

[capriceman]

Can I join since when my Caprice is in Reverse its fwd?

[Carguy]

Joining the FDM is like joining the French Army.--------Repeat after me and memorize these words FDM members!--------"I SURENDER!"-------"I SURENDER!"--------PLEASE DONT HURT ME!--------"I SURENDER!"

[Cory Wolfe]

Okay, from this point on, any RDM member to post in here will get spamed. See my email? I'll transfer it over to you.

Now, let's get more guys for the FDM.

[Turbojett]

i'm not a member of either.

muahahahahaa

[Cory Wolfe]

Okay, Mr. Cobalt owner.

[Satty]

I'm too cool to join FDM.

[the_yellow_dart]

i'm not a member of either.

muahahahahaa

176451[/snapback]

I'm too cool to join FDM.

176488[/snapback]

[Cory Wolfe]

Whatever, guys. Don't be mad because my Millenia will outrun Cobalts and Fusions.

[capriceman]

Whatever, guys. Don't be mad because my Millenia will outrun Cobalts and Fusions.

177627[/snapback]

:rotflmao:

I think a Geo Metro with one of the spark plug wires removed loaded with 3 400 pound people and 4 bags of quik-Crete with a 3 speed automatic would be faster then your Millenia :AH-HA_wink:

[Cory Wolfe]

Yeeeeeeeeaaaahh... I'm sure.

[Satty]

Whatever, guys. Don't be mad because my Millenia will outrun Cobalts and Fusions.

177627[/snapback]

Wanna race? Similar weight, similar power, mine has a 5-speed and I dont buy cheap gas.

[Cory Wolfe]

Yeah! And mine has a 5-speed too... it just shifts for me.

[Satty]

Ummmmm....reverse doesn't count as a speed and last I checked early 90's Millenia had 4 speed automatics.

[Newbiewar]

My 01 sierra has its front wheels powered... with plenty of torque i might add...

and it doesnt have near the torque steer or understeer problems that others have mentioned... not even axel hop!

Power steering that is

[Cory Wolfe]

Ummmmm....reverse doesn't count as a speed and last I checked early 90's Millenia had 4 speed automatics.

177641[/snapback]

Then wherever you got that info from was incorrect as my millenia has 5 gears, not including reverse.

[Satty]

Would you care to elaborate, as I have found nothing to suggest that any Mazda Millenia has more than four forward gears in its transaxle.

[Cory Wolfe]

Um... care to ride along in my Millenia? I can show you all 5 gears.

[Satty]

If you think P,R,N,D and L are gears then you really need to learn what a gear is.

[MyerShift]

Hmm, I support this.

I wouldn't mind a rear-drive vehicle, but I do like my front-drivers, and will probably stick with them for the mid-term, and overall, I prefer the "no compromises" (I know, I know- weight, efficiency, more moving parts, maintenance) of all-wheel drive.

Front Drive Maffia

Doing things that rear-drivers do, if only with a touch less finesse.

[mute]

  :rotflmao:

I think a Geo Metro with one of the spark plug wires removed loaded with 3 400 pound people and 4 bags of quik-Crete with a 3 speed automatic would be faster then your Millenia    :AH-HA_wink:

177630[/snapback]

its funny you say this cuz ive been in that car . . . but it also had 1000 lbs of sound equipment in it as well . . . 23.5 speakers lol

and we were going 115 too . . . i think the cop who pulled us over was soo impressed they had to let us go with a stern laughing

and its funny you guys should compare a ford to a mazda?!?! cmon?!?!!?

and my MINIVAN will beat all of your cars if you drive it well and the other driver sucks . . . youd be suprised how driver skill and manipulation counts

FWD and RWD should live in Peace . . . cuz guess what? not all cars deserve RWD and some definitely deserve it

Edited August 9, 2006 by mute

[ocnblu]

That's why I'm not getting all excited over this war. I am a RWD lover, but a good, small car with FWD can be fun too. Just don't try to steer a FWD in snow or ice.

[capriceman]

That's why I'm not getting all excited over this war.  I am a RWD lover, but a good, small car with FWD can be fun too.  Just don't try to steer a FWD in snow or ice.

177754[/snapback]

one thing tho on ice with a FWD if it starts spinning its hard to predict what it will do but with RWD you know where the cars gonna go.

BV do you think Passing gear counts as a 5th gear?

[Cory Wolfe]

If you think P,R,N,D and L are gears then you really need to learn what a gear is.

177666[/snapback]

Haha... No, I know what a gear is. Anyways, I did some researching of myself to figure this out and appearantly you were right. It does have a 4spd auto. However, it was automatic overdrive which basically acts as a fifth gear. You can't tell the difference upon driving. That's what confused me, because I can be driving... push the gas a bit, it will "shift" down, then push it some more, it will shift down into 3rd. It has a hold feature that holds it in 3rd so I know it's in third.

[the_yellow_dart]

one thing tho on ice with a FWD if it starts spinning its hard to predict what it will do but with RWD you know where the cars gonna go.

BV do you think Passing gear counts as a 5th gear?

177773[/snapback]

I disagree.

I spun out a TrailBlazer on an icy road, and I blame the RWD. I fishtailed back and forth about 5 times before spinning around in a 270 and ripping off a piece of the front bumper on a snowbank. FWD would have been much more predictable in this circumstance.

[ocnblu]

Sigh. With RWD, you have the ability to steer with the gas to augment the front wheel steer. With FWD, on turns under low traction conditions, if you need throttle, the car shoots in the opposite direction you want it to go, and you have no recourse (i.e., throttle oversteer) to correct that deficiency.

[Hudson]

Haha... No, I know what a gear is. Anyways, I did some researching of myself to figure this out and appearantly you were right. It does have a 4spd auto. However, it was automatic overdrive which basically acts as a fifth gear. You can't tell the difference upon driving. That's what confused me, because I can be driving... push the gas a bit, it will "shift" down, then push it some more, it will shift down into 3rd. It has a hold feature that holds it in 3rd so I know it's in third.

"Acts as a fifth gear?" The transmission has four ratios...and the "overdrive" is the fourth. You may be feeling the torque converter.

[razoredge]

"Acts as a fifth gear?" The transmission has four ratios...and the "overdrive" is the fourth. You may be feeling the torque converter.

178159[/snapback]

I dont know what the silly Japs have or had but if it was a GM since the early 80's it would be a four speed with torque converter lockup, which as Hudson indicates here, acts or seems like yet another gear. In a way it is another ratio because it will not allow the TC to "slip". Press down a bit and the TC lock up kicks out and engine RPM's will rise. That is the "torque converter" doing its work. Press down a bit more and you will downshift into 3rd which is direct drive BTW (1 to 1). This downshift is what some like Capriceman call "passing gear" it is not its own special gear called "passng gear" it is just a down shift. If you were going even slower it would downshift into second, but once again this is second not its own special "passing gear" just yet another downshift. Passing gear does not exist it is or rather was a term used in the "old days" for down shifting into second on the old 3 speed in the American Iron.

Hope this helps clear the myths

[mute]

actually with an automatic transmission i beleive there is an overdrive gear for every gear so that it shifts into that gear twice pretty much giving BV an almost 8 spd transmission ihave a 6 spd with overdrive and it can down/up shift to no end i still havent hit the top and ill just keep shifting and shifting at high speeds

and FWD is better in low traction situations thats not opinion its fact . . . RWD has less traction because the weight of the engine is in the front not over the drive wheels and you simply lose traction with all wheels with the FWD you can steer and also since you have the weight of the engine over the drive wheels and you also have the drive wheels pointing whichever way you want . . . if you lose traction in a RWD car in the front wheels you spin . . . and you have a hard time recovering . . . its very easy to recover from a FWD spin

[NOS2006]

and FWD is better in low traction situations thats not opinion its fact . . . RWD has less traction because the weight of the engine is in the front not over the drive wheels and you simply lose traction with all wheels with the FWD you can steer and also since you have the weight of the engine over the drive wheels and you also have the drive wheels pointing whichever way you want . . . if you lose traction in a RWD car in the front wheels you spin . . . and you have a hard time recovering . . . its very easy to recover from a FWD spin

178185[/snapback]

This is relative. What about cars with 50/50 weight distribution? What about mid- and rear-engine cars? Yesh. I win.

[mute]

still true . . . the fact that losing traction with the front wheels in the two drive types still results in the same thing . . . if you lost front traction in RWD your blind . . . if you lost front traction in a FWD your able to point the wheels where your headed and recover much faster

if you lost rear traction in a RWD you lose your drive wheels and you fishtail and lose control . . . rear traction in a FWD lost means your back end is just sliding and you still have drive and control . . . the back may come out around turns but again a quick jerk of the wheel will correct

all wheel traction lost in a RWD you spin wildly and countersteer hoping your drive wheels will catch . . . because simply getting front wheel traction your back end is still moving free

all wheels traction lost in a fwd you spin widly countersteer and as long as one set of wheels catches . . . you have some control and the rest of the wheels follow quickly

ive tested all of these and so have your insurance companies . . . . fact regardless of ease of loss of traction

[NOS2006]

If you lose traction in a RWD car and fishtail (unless you mean to), you're stupid. If you lose traction, why are you still putting your foot on the gas?

[mute]

traction lost does not mean your still putting yoru foot to the gas if your on ice and you lost traction you keep the lost traction have you ever tried to regain traction on ice? its near impossible regardless of drive it takes some effort

[capriceman]

After reading some of these comments i want to kill my self from stupidity!

[NOS2006]

So what's the point of your argument?

[mute]

After reading some of these comments i want to kill my self from stupidity!

178196[/snapback]

? correct any wrongs that youve seen please misinformation is useless and harmful

and Frank if your asking my point? to correct wrong information that ive seen about the safety of RWD or FWD in low traction situations

[mute]

If you lose traction in a RWD car and fishtail (unless you mean to), you're stupid. If you lose traction, why are you still putting your foot on the gas?

178192[/snapback]

and really losing traction in any car shouldnt happen unless there was some lapse in judgement or intelligence so yes "you" are stupid if this happens

Edited August 10, 2006 by mute

[razoredge]

Another myth

While those mentioned the characteristics of both RWD and FWD in snow, ice or slush are accurate, they have also become exagerated and grow to extremes. In bad winter driving conditions the FWD will get the job done. Those that are not on the ball enough to keep the FWD car on the road would go off and get stuck in the RWD car far more often, as was the case in the Great NorthEast 20+ years ago. Most usually as they slide while backing down the hill they just could not get up and polished to a nice shiny luster............... The FWD car is far more user friendly in bad conditions. Thusly why it is a far better choice for the less road savvy sex...................woman. It is also better for those like myself that can drive the ass off any car, RWD or FWD who became sick and tired of putting chains on a RWD with a few hundred pounds of ballast in the trunk way back 20 years ago.

FWD cars also stop better on slippery roads as they have a bit more weight bias on the front tires which do........just pulling a number here, 75% of the braking. Anyone not steering well in a FWD car can simply let of the gas and all is well, a no brainer really, which is why women catch on to FWD fairly quick................

This is a nearly irrelevent argument today with the warming trends and amount of SALT and SAND they need to put on the roads these days due to all the whiny, whimpy "tax payers"

"Gee wiz, I know I live in the mountains, in the NorthEast and its winter and it SNOWED but how come there is snow on the road? " "and oh, my windshield has this nasty stuff on it too, how come it landed on my windshield " "and oh, my car seats were cold and it took 5 whole minutes before my heater blew heat " I just cant hardly take it anymore "

all things equal be it snow tire/snow tire, ice, deep snow, slush, hills, turns - FWD is superior to RWD on slippery roads.............................deal with it !

[mute]

Another myth

While those mentioned the characteristics of both RWD and FWD in snow, ice or slush are accurate, they have also become exagerated and grow to extremes. In bad winter driving conditions the FWD will get the job done. Those that are not on the ball enough to keep the FWD car on the road would go off and get stuck in the RWD car far more often, as was the case in the Great NorthEast 20+ years ago. Most usually as they slide while backing down the hill they just could not get up and polished to a nice shiny luster...............   The FWD car is far more user friendly in bad conditions. Thusly why it is a far better choice for the less road savvy sex...................woman. It is also better for those like myself that can drive the ass off any car, RWD or FWD who became sick and tired of putting chains on a RWD with a few hundred pounds of ballast in the trunk way back 20 years ago.

FWD cars also stop better on slippery roads as they have a bit more weight bias on the front tires which do........just pulling a number here, 75% of the braking. Anyone not steering well in a FWD car can simply let of the gas and all is well, a no brainer really, which is why women catch on to FWD fairly quick................

This is a nearly irrelevent argument today with the warming trends and amount of SALT and SAND they need to put on the roads these days due to all the whiny, whimpy "tax payers"

"Gee wiz, I know I live in the mountains, in the NorthEast and its winter and it SNOWED but how come there is snow on the road?    " "and oh, my windshield has this nasty stuff on it too, how come it landed on my windshield  " "and oh, my car seats were cold and it took 5 whole minutes before my heater blew heat  " I just cant hardly take it anymore  "

all things equal be it snow tire/snow tire, ice, deep snow, slush, hills, turns - FWD is superior to RWD on slippery roads.............................deal with it ! 

178214[/snapback]

that was my point? im lost?!

[razoredge]

actually with an automatic transmission i beleive there is an overdrive gear for every gear so that it shifts into that gear twice pretty much giving BV an almost 8 spd transmission ihave a 6 spd with overdrive and it can down/up shift to no end i still havent hit the top and ill just keep shifting and shifting at high speeds

I made a comment earlier about the younger guys knowing things we older guys never dreamed of, This is one of them. This is not an insult, just a wake up call. Please dont talk about stuff unless you know what you are talking about. Next thing you know myths & housewifes tales begin to get passed around. Please read and absorb the post I made just before you made this post Mute..............geeze

[NOS2006]

Actually, razoredge.. my dad has a FWD Grand Prix 3.8 Series III. I have a RWD Camaro 3.8 Series II with a cam, tune, rearend, full intake/exhaust systems, and a few other things. My dad can light 'em up and I can't..

[capriceman]

I skimmed through what you guys posted and i will make my point i noticed from plenty of years behind the wheel.

Overdrive is nothing but a device that down shifts your car from lets say 3rd to 2nd to get the higher power band.

On semis the over drive is a button that when pressed the device attached to the gears changes the ratio. that can be applied to any gear. a normal car just downshifts.

RWD if you start fishtail and the back end goes to the left steer to the left let off gas and the car should straighten out. DONT USE BRAKES. until the car is going straight. what happens is the front wheels direct the car in which way to move it. the drive wheels in the back when the gas is let off will slow down to a speed that is less than what the car is moving at and then start to dig in to get traction again. RWD problems is that it is harder to get going from a stop. and that most sporty cars are RWD and have wide tires which makes it harder to to get a grip since there is more surface area.

FWD. is easy to get going from a stop and thats about it. since if you lose control there is no draging action from the rear tires as in RWD so it will slide until it gets traction on its own again. if you start steering and you have no traction the whells turn and slide forward with the momentum of the car. If you lose control with a FWD there is nothing that you can really do to gain traction. It just does it by it self and hopefully it does it fast.

Think what you want to think. but I know that i can drive my caprice which is RWD in the snow just as easy as i can drive a cobalt. I have driven camaros in the snow there very easy to drive just that its hard t get going from a stop. I have driven a pontiac vibe in the snow. easy take offs but turning is more difficult for some reason.

If your on ICE no matter what you have your screwed. is just luck if nothing wrong goes on.

This thread is all opinionated too keep in mind.

[razoredge]

Actually, razoredge.. my dad has a FWD Grand Prix 3.8 Series III. I have a RWD Camaro 3.8 Series II with a cam, tune, rearend, full intake/exhaust systems, and a few other things. My dad can light 'em up and I can't..

178226[/snapback]

Your modifications probably lowered your low RPM torque and raised your high RPM HP. Our LSS will lay down quite a bit of rubber too but that is high traction, in which the torque lifts the front end and shifts weight to rear end. This is part of the launch problem FWD drag racers face................HOWEVER this is not an effect in low traction situations when there is no chance of any tractive torque being transfered. The very best FW smoker I ever had was the 89 NYer with a little 3.0 OHC Mitsu, that thing would squawk loudly and lay a dark 15 feet from both tires. The LSS just spins slightly for about 50-70 ft with primarly one wheel and launches fairly well, far better than any of the small displacement V8 RWD American cars of the 60's & 70's. We used to have to take corners fast and remove weight off the inside tire to lay a "patch"............

Id have to see the numbers again but I believe the Camaro never had very good weight distributation. Nearly the typical 60/40 that is common in FWD cars. In fact most American transportation devices never had really good weight distribution, worst of which was the big block cars and 2wd PU with empty box. Corvette was one of the few that countered this by placing the engine well behind the front wheel axis. Then they further improved this by going to the transaxle.

Its a well know fact around these parts that Camaros are crap in the snow. I love Camaros too so dont get the wrong idea. Been alot of F bodies take the dive during the winter back when they were more common. Doing 360's at road speed in a car is not fun and there is no telling where your going to wind up. At least when a FWD plows you get the full effect of the tree comming at you............

[NOS2006]

Overdrive is the fourth gear in a four-speed-automatic, making the car upshift, thus keeping the RPMs low and MPG higher.