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Camino LS6

GM RWD info

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Some of it is right...some of it isn't.

Care to clarify?

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Care to clarify?

Some of the timing is off. Other parts may not be true at all.

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reagrdless of what is true.....what is disturbing is that apparently GM still has no clue and still takes FOREVER to do anything. No one is going to wait for this crap to develop. 2010> 2012? My God, you need to move faster! Everyone wants to see progress in the showroom NOW. Time has run out. GM needs to pull its $h! together and figure out how to get enough dollars and resources to get their best to market NOW. And then new model cycles every 3 years. 4 years max. This is maddening, frustrating, and irritating. At some point you don't even care anymore about their union costs, benefit costs, yada yada.......

with the pace they do things they really ought to die. because its like watching a mentally challenged kid with his shoelaces tied together tripping and falling run in a race against Carl Lewis and Willie Gault.

Edited by regfootball
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While the timing is drawn out yet again, it seems to tie up alot of the loose ends we've been speculating on - the fate of the STS, when the G6 will migrate to RWD, an Alpha BLS for the NA market. I have to wonder about acceptance for a larger CTS, but even that aspect (at first blush) makes perfect sense - those who bought the CTS are used to a larger-than-class car anyway.

One hopes more is true than wrong...

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it seems to tie up alot of the loose ends we've been speculating on

Not necessarily.

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I doubt the market will justify all these GM cars on Zeta, which is what is really giving Lutz pause, not CAFE. CAFE is just the excuse.

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I doubt the market will justify all these GM cars on Zeta, which is what is really giving Lutz pause, not CAFE. CAFE is just the excuse.

You are one depressing guy to have around. <_<

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reagrdless of what is true.....what is disturbing is that apparently GM still has no clue and still takes FOREVER to do anything. No one is going to wait for this crap to develop. 2010> 2012? My God, you need to move faster! Everyone wants to see progress in the showroom NOW. Time has run out. GM needs to pull its &#036;h&#33; together and figure out how to get enough dollars and resources to get their best to market NOW. And then new model cycles every 3 years. 4 years max. This is maddening, frustrating, and irritating. At some point you don't even care anymore about their union costs, benefit costs, yada yada.......

with the pace they do things they really ought to die. because its like watching a mentally challenged kid with his shoelaces tied together tripping and falling run in a race against Carl Lewis and Willie Gault.

Makes me wonder...are they still going to be building their old W &G FWD models with 4-spd autos through 2010-2011?

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Makes me wonder...are they still going to be building their old W &G FWD models with 4-spd autos through 2010-2011?

They're dead if they do.

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Makes me wonder...are they still going to be building their old W &G FWD models with 4-spd autos through 2010-2011?

No.

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Why do you say that? Forums are for discussions, I present another view, that's all. The world would be a very boring place if we all agreed.

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I'm feeling a bit better now that Guion M posted this over at CZ28:

You nailed Zeta on Holden's side and Pontiac's plans.

Outside of that, Sigma's writing is on the wall but I wouldn't expect the next CTS to grow in size beyond the 2008 model. Zeta is a cheaper and better structure than Sigma, so it's essentially an open & shut case to move it to Cadillac.

In addition to the Camaro & Impala, I'd also expect the El Camino here during the 2009CY, making it a really fun time to be a Chevrolet enthusiast.

I haven't seriously believed Chevrolet would have a large coupe since it began looking very likely Holden would be making the Monaro replacemnt in Australia instead of in North America (last fall). The whole basis of building the large coupes here in NA was that Chevrolet's volume would make it worthwhile. While I can easily see Chevrolet importing a version as a Chevrolet "GTO" (it's going to be sold in the Middle East as a Chevy anyway), I don't see 35-45,000 G8s and another 12-15,000 GTOs and another 150-160,000 Holdens for local and world distribution leaving much room for another 15-20,000 Chevy coupes. I'll be the 1st to admit it's possible (to fill out capacity), but I wouldn't bet my beer money on it at the moment.

I'm out of the loop on recent developments on the small RWD chassis (been preoccupied). Can tell you the basic premise is to create a new versitile architecture to bolt the Solstice's IRS, front suspension, and drivetrain to (it's NOT a revised Kappa).

The Torana concept was an offshoot of a competition between GM North America and GM Holden to create the structure (NA's version won BTW... Torana's starting point was Zeta). But the size of the Torana is what we're looking at. Pontiac, Holden, Opel (including Saturn), and Cadillac will have models based on this architecture, and the early leading candidate to build them is Wilmington (lots of things can change between now & then, though).

This small chassis will be the basis for sedans and a coupes. It initially started out as a '4 cylinder only' structure, last heard was the idea was changed to accept V6s. GM-Holden sees the chassis as a volume sucessor to the VE. GM-North America sees it as the next performance car chassis.

This is being eyed as a G6 successor. Unless Camaro sales simply flat-out take off (meaning approaching 200K annually) and the coupe market explodes, common wisdom is this is probally the only chance of seeing the Firebird return.

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Some of it sounds good, but some of it sounds like speculation to me... What ever happened to Chi? or did I miss its cancellation?

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Why do you say that? Forums are for discussions, I present another view, that's all. The world would be a very boring place if we all agreed.

I assume you meant me?

It's just that you are predicting doom for the only programs (RWD) that I care about. And, what you hope to see happen would effectively end my interest in GM cars. Not to mention, your opinion about Lutz's "replacement". Not exactly uplifting stuff from my vantage point.

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I doubt the market will justify all these GM cars on Zeta, which is what is really giving Lutz pause, not CAFE. CAFE is just the excuse.

you're wrong.

see, more than one person can blow smoke without giving good reason.

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I assume you meant me?

It's just that you are predicting doom for the only programs (RWD) that I care about. And, what you hope to see happen would effectively end my interest in GM cars. Not to mention, your opinion about Lutz's "replacement". Not exactly uplifting stuff from my vantage point.

Same here..the RWD models are the only ones that remotely interest me, the only ones that would bring me to buy a new GM product...

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So what if a car is RWD... just because it is RWD doesn't mean it is REQUIRED to have a fuel thirsty V8.

So why would the market not justify having four cylinder and efficient six-cylinder RWD vehicles?

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So what if a car is RWD... just because it is RWD doesn't mean it is REQUIRED to have a fuel thirsty V8.

So why would the market not justify having four cylinder and efficient six-cylinder RWD vehicles?

True...there is definitely a market for smaller 4cyl and 6cyl RWD models, I think...look at the '08 Caddy CTS..sounds like it's going be an excellent sports sedan with a V6.. I would think other future RWD GMs could use the 3.6.

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what would be poetic justice is every "practical" mind here who cries for FWD be forced to also drive hybrids only. The slowest damn hybrids all into FWDs. And then let the market dictate that RWD cars have a range of options. Since the reason for having FWD is because it's "mainstream" and "practical" and "safe". What's safer than a 110 hp FWD car?

But getting serious, a Zeta car with a weight of about 3600 lbs, and a 2.2 4-cyl DI with 180 hp would be great as the volume model, imo. Acheive gas mileage of 28/35 and you'd have all the midsizers beat. Of course, the reality of GM is they would never have this kind of forward thinking. Of course, Alpha would be truly suited to efficient 4 cyl. 4 cyl engines can be fun!, witness the Accord 4-cyl, in stick shift mode that car is fun tight light tossable and refined, and gas efficient.

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This all seems possible but there are certainly some parts that are not correct. Also, I don't see how anyone, Bob Lutz included, knows what's happening for sure past 2011-12. All of that is still in the debating process. This guy claims they already have the 2nd gen BRX figured out. Well, the first gen BRX doesn't come out for quite a while.

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This all seems possible but there are certainly some parts that are not correct. Also, I don't see how anyone, Bob Lutz included, knows what's happening for sure past 2011-12. All of that is still in the debating process. This guy claims they already have the 2nd gen BRX figured out. Well, the first gen BRX doesn't come out for quite a while.

Yes, but remember we are already in the 2008 MY, so the 2010's are being locked right now. It's pretty safe to assume the plans for 2012-13 are already in motion.

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