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Camino LS6

A silk purse from a sow's ear

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Should all the predictions of the Zeta platform's demise and the end of performance cars, v8s, and RWD come to pass, I have a suggestion for GM.

Preserve one little corner of your empire that is inviolate and untouchable, an island of automotive joy amidst the sea of boredom coming our way. Keep this one small island sacrosanct and immune from the coming disaster. Don't make the error of leaving the good stuff entirely out of the portfolio as was done before. Keep just a few eggs in a different basket.

What I am saying is simply this, use Pontiac as the lone standard-bearer for performance cars and let it truly be what it is meant to be at long last. Let this one brand keep the joys of driving alive during the coming dark days and don't abandon those of us who care utterly. Once before, Pontiac has kept the dream alive - let it do so again.

No other brand in the portfolio can do this, Camaro and Corvette just aren't enough by themselves and they must share a showroom with the most utilitarian models GM builds.

Pontiac, however, can be the go to source for performance of varying sizes and bodystyles.

Camaro and Corvette stand alone as icons, and are strong enough to survive amidst the plain vanilla which will flood the market going forward. But, where is the affordable sports sedan? Where are GM's 3 and 5 series analogues? Chevy can't do this, and no other US brand should, except Pontiac.

Think it over GM, this could really work.

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I agree... and a little birdie makes me think that RWD is only safe at Pontiac right now... so your idea may yet come to pass.

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Before we send Pontiac to the electric chair, I demand a DNA test, which will prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the Pontiac brand was, and can be, a true, affordable performance brand.
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Assassinate Pontiac, assassinate GM.

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It will be interesting what happens to Pontiac. So long as it remains profitable, I see no reason why not to keep it.

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If Pontiac goes, I may have to re-evaluate my allegiance to GM. If Buick goes with it, I'm gone. It would take a lot for me to lose my love for GM, but elimination of another historic brand or two could do the trick.

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If Pontiac goes, I may have to re-evaluate my allegiance to GM. If Buick goes with it, I'm gone. It would take a lot for me to lose my love for GM, but elimination of another historic brand or two could do the trick.

Buick's not going anywhere.

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I don't think Rick Wagoner would agree. Even he now believes GM's future is in Europe, South America and China. The death of one local North American brand means squat, in the grand scheme of things.

See his comments here: http://www.cheersandgears.com/forums/index...t=0#entry352432

Anyone who believes that is off their rocker, plain and simple. Wagoner included.

I don't GM can afford to deal with the consequences of upsetting its home market.

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I don't think Rick Wagoner would agree. Even he now believes GM's future is in Europe, South America and China. The death of one local North American brand means squat, in the grand scheme of things.

Only the one? The wildfire suggests more. If the growth in China is truly one of GM's hallmarks, then Buick must be preserved... if only to assist with maintaining the dealership franchises with GMC in the US until Buick's line-up is completely unified and revamped in both markets.

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outside of this place, how many people care about pontiac? not a whole lot.

the brands been so mismanaged and diluted for so long...like that pos gp with the hollow dash--that junk can't even pass for a hyundai. and now gm could really do with fewer brands.

sometimes the best advice is the hardest advice: just learn to let go.

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Hey Ven, perhaps I can interest you in a nice Azera, or Genesis sedan when you're ready to get out of your orphan. How's that sound? Ugh, sorry man. What a sickening prospect.

In response to CAFE, perhaps we will have to give up Zeta (I certainly hate the idea, don't get me wrong), but the Alpha platform could underpin an entire line of truly unique and highly desirable Pontiacs... Solstice II, coupe, convertible, sedan, and sportwagon, with Ecotec DI, turbo, 2.8 and 3.6L V6s, even a torque-happy turbodiesel engine (the BMW 1-series diesel coupe is debuting to rave reviews).

Make it so!

Edited by ocnblu
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I didn't know that performance cars were going to die. I just thought the way in which performance cars would be powered would change.

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Hey Ven, perhaps I can interest you in a nice Azera, or Genesis sedan when you're ready to get out of your orphan. How's that sound? Ugh, sorry man. What a sickening prospect.

In response to CAFE, perhaps we will have to give up Zeta (I certainly hate the idea, don't get me wrong), but the Alpha platform could underpin an entire line of truly unique and highly desirable Pontiacs... Solstice II, coupe, convertible, sedan, and sportwagon, with Ecotec DI, turbo, 2.8 and 3.6L V6s, even a torque-happy turbodiesel engine (the BMW 1-series diesel coupe is debuting to rave reviews).

Make it so!

My orphan? Last I checked, there have been at least a half dozen articles recently published discussing future Buick styling and line-up expansion. NG Enclave already being tested? Buick will have the Riviera concept to show at NAIAS this year as well. I simply do the same for Buick as many are doing for Pontiac: stating the brand's virtues, hoping for the best, and continue purchasing Buicks.

And... Hyundai would never be an alternative if Buick disappears. My first stop would be at Infiniti or Mercedes-Benz.

I just recently went to my dealer for service. It was nice to see a $30k G6 convertible, $33k LaCrosse Super, and a $65k GMC Denali sharing the showroom floor. The majority of products sold at B-P-GMC are not cheap. Now if the franchises appropriately represented their products. I can only hope Bellevue B-P-GMC will finally remodel in 2008 as they've promised over and over again.

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Has Oldsmobile's death taught nothing? Offing any ONE of GM's North American brands is a recipe for disaster for this market. If one brand were to be killed the public will not perceive the event as anything but another example of GM's continued decline, all the more reason to stay away from the company. And of course there's the whole financial burden associated with the actual closing.

But then again, GMNA doesn't matter anymore, does it?

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Has Oldsmobile's death taught nothing? Offing any ONE of GM's North American brands is a recipe for disaster for this market. If one brand were to be killed the public will not perceive the event as anything but another example of GM's continued decline, all the more reason to stay away from the company. And of course there's the whole financial burden associated with the actual closing.

But then again, GMNA doesn't matter anymore, does it?

4 years later and Oldsmobile's phase out continues to haunt GM and buyers. The sting lingers long after the death stroke is delivered. IMO, the negative perception from killing another brand would be best avoided if at all possible. 2008 will be hard enough for GMNA without self-destructive tendencies being acted upon.

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Actually, I am willing to bet that a good majority of the buying public (i.e. people who dont know C&G exists) have completely forgotten about Oldsmobile.

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As PCS has hinted at, I suspect the secret strategy for forming the Pontiac-Buick-GMC structure is so it can become Buick-GMC eventually if it has to...

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Oldsmobile's demise hurt Canada more than the U.S. because Chevrolet is much weaker here and because Chev-Olds were allied, as P-B-GMC always has. All the power house stores in the greater Toronto area are P-B-GMC. Three Chev stores have closed in Toronto in the past 3 months (or are about to close.) GM lied to the dealer body by telling them that GM-DAT product was going to fill the gap, then promptly caved to the P-B-GMC dealer's whining and gave them the Wave (Aveo), cancelled the Epica (no loss, really) and also the Optra 5 and wagon. So where did that promise go?

I can't comment on whether it was a long term mistake or not, but I do know that several of my 'new Canadian' customers who had owned Oldsmobile since coming to Canada went and bought imports after Olds went away because the only defense they had against their import-loving spawn was that Olds had brought them 'good luck.' With Olds gone, said parents had no more defense and caved to their hatchlings' rabbling and bought Acuras or whatever.

I personally don't see why Pontiac or Buick has to go away, but GM absolutely must stop this tit-for-tat product duplication just for the sake of keeping certain power brokers happy. The Torrent was a travesty, to name one. If GM can differentiate Pontiac and Buick to be destinct, but give Chevrolet the tools it needs to compete against Toyota (ie., competitive small SUV and a world-class small car), then GM will have a future. Otherwise, it will just continue to be a downward spiral of closing dealers, diminishing market share and eventually either (or both) Pontiac and Buick will have to go away.

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Isn't Pontiac pretty popular in Canada? When I was in Montreal, I saw more Pontiacs than Chevys.

GM is dumb if they kill Pontiac, because they are still fairly popular among my age group. One of my friends recently bought a Mercury Milan, but he was looking at a Pontiac G6 also. Another friend is looking at a Grand Prix. These are guys fresh out of college and in their 20s...if GM doesn't want that kind of customer, go ahead and kill Pontiac, but also keep giving people more reasons to go to the competition.

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Saturn and Chevy can probably pick up a lot of sales lost by eliminating Pontiac.

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Saturn and Chevy can probably pick up a lot of sales lost by eliminating Pontiac.

How would you like getting service at your local Buick-Saturn-GMC dealer? :smilewide:

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How would you like getting service at your local Buick-Saturn-GMC dealer? :smilewide:

*Cringes*

I wouldn't want the Saturn commies infiltrating Buick-GMC :censored:

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