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Oracle of Delphi

For Earth Day, higher CAFE

39 posts in this topic

Harry Stoffer

Automotive News

April 21, 2008 - 4:25 pm ET

WASHINGTON -- The Bush administration apparently will try to spruce up its battered environmental image with an Earth Day announcement of higher fuel economy standards.

Although there was no confirmation as of this afternoon, administration officials on Tuesday, April 22, are expected to reveal proposed fuel economy standards for cars and trucks in the 2011-15 model years.

The Department of Transportation said Secretary Mary Peters will make an announcement on " protecting the environment."

Federal law dictates that standards must rise to a combined 35 mpg by 2020, about 40 percent higher than today. But the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration must spell out the details with regulations. The proposed rules are expected to feature different fuel economy targets for vehicles of different sizes.

By 2015, cars and trucks together would have to average nearly 30 mpg to be on a path to reach the 35-mpg standard by 2020. Today the standard for cars is 27.5 mpg and for trucks is 22.5 mpg.

Last December, Congress passed and President Bush signed an energy bill with the first mandated increase in the corporate average fuel economy program, or CAFE, since it began in 1975. Automakers say they accept the higher standards but may disagree over the details of carrying them out.

Automakers, dealers and others are lobbying hard to keep the administration's ban on state-by-state rules on greenhouse gas emissions. The industry says such rules in effect would create a fuel economy standard for each state.

Link: http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/arti...261661168/1128/

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They can try to spin as much crap as they want, but considering this is the same administration that wanted to drill oil in a wildlife preserve, there's not much they can do to cover up the foul stench of failure that has been the last 8 years, and not just where the environment is concerned.

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They can try to spin as much crap as they want, but considering this is the same administration that wanted to drill oil in a wildlife preserve, there's not much they can do to cover up the foul stench of failure that has been the last 8 years, and not just where the environment is concerned.

How high will oil prices have to get before the American public supports drilling in ANWR?

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They can try to spin as much crap as they want, but considering this is the same administration that wanted to drill oil in a wildlife preserve, there's not much they can do to cover up the foul stench of failure that has been the last 8 years, and not just where the environment is concerned.

Corporate Average Fuel Economy standards are national energy, not environmental, policies.

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Corporate Average Fuel Economy standards are national energy, not environmental, policies.

Yes but they are doing this announcement on Earth day to make it seem like they care about the environment and preserving resources.

That's the impression that I get.

Edited by Dodgefan
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Yes but they are doing this announcement on Earth day to make it seem like they care about the environment and preserving resources.

That's the impression that I get.

Yeah, it's hilarious, the idea of a Republican caring for the environment or natural resources is an oxymoron..those guys only care about exploiting people and resources so that a few old white guys get/stay wealthy...

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Yeah, it's hilarious, the idea of a Republican caring for the environment or natural resources is an oxymoron..those guys only care about exploiting people and resources so that a few old white guys get/stay wealthy...

What a stupid oversimplification. Do you think in pure black and white in all areas of life?

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How high will oil prices have to get before the American public supports drilling in ANWR?

Hopefully we never get there. We have an oil problem...so drilling out more oil from very environmentally-sensitive areas is not the answer. We need alternative fuels. Let's leave one of the few remaining places on this planet relatively untouched...

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What a stupid oversimplification. Do you think in pure black and white in all areas of life?

No, but I certainly don't like the Republican party.. their corruption and greed knows no bounds....do you think they give a damn about anyone but their own kind (white wealthy Christians)?

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No, but I certainly don't like the Republican party.. their corruption and greed knows no bounds....do you think they give a damn about anyone but their own kind (white wealthy Christians)?

Truth. Everyone else is just a ploy for a photo op, or so it seems. I mean, I used to identify as Republican based on the stated principles of fiscal conservatism, and moderated social stances...but then realized that when taxes are too high, so they just need to be cut...where are they cut? Not for the low-middle income Americans. That right there is just greed, and I find it repugnant.

Then as I've learned about history more, no wonder every minority in America goes blue. The Republican politics of the past 50 years have been fear-mongering and hate-driven. "Us vs. them," "slippery slope" arguments, an unfounded fear and distrust of science...I just can't go along with it. It all seems so self-preservationist at all costs, like the party wishes for the "good old days" forgetting that the 1950s have long passed us by.

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I find this whole thing funny....

So, to protect the environment, we're going to 1) raise the price of cars and 2) develop technology that will allow americans to drive more and more. Effectively forcing people either to keep their older cars longer, or flat out buy an older car, and then drive the wheels off of it.

GOOD MOVE CONGRESS!!!! You get a gold star from the gold star fairy!

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I find this whole thing funny....

So, to protect the environment, we're going to 1) raise the price of cars and 2) develop technology that will allow americans to drive more and more. Effectively forcing people either to keep their older cars longer, or flat out buy an older car, and then drive the wheels off of it.

GOOD MOVE CONGRESS!!!! You get a gold star from the gold star fairy!

And of course, the oil companies will keep making record profits...

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Yeah, it's hilarious, the idea of a Republican caring for the environment or natural resources is an oxymoron..those guys only care about exploiting people and resources so that a few old white guys get/stay wealthy...

are you forgeting teddy Roosevelt? your preconception must be shattered now. j/k

republicans should care more about the environment because of the conservative part of the party... that's just been squashed by neo-con ideas.

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are you forgeting teddy Roosevelt? your preconception must be shattered now. j/k

republicans should care more about the environment because of the conservative part of the party... that's just been squashed by neo-con ideas.

Teddy Roosevelt was a looooong time ago.. I'm talking about the Republican party of today.

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you know what this means right? time to build UBER efficent daily drivers... im thinking an ecotec in a Monza backed by a 6 speed? :smilewide:

i will never abandon V8's....but new cars are becoming less and less of an option.... E85 muscle cars :drool:

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you know what this means right? time to build UBER efficent daily drivers... im thinking an ecotec in a Monza backed by a 6 speed? :smilewide:

i will never abandon V8's....but new cars are becoming less and less of an option.... E85 muscle cars :drool:

With the gas prices the way they are and will likely be going up even more, some times I wish I still had my '84 Escort diesel that I had as a teenager...that was truly uber efficient...45-50 around town, 50-55 on the highway. But other than the efficiency, I wouldn't want it today---vinyl seats, manual everything, am radio, a very basic car by today's standards, without any modern conveniences or safety features.

Now if I could get a CTS with a turbo diesel and a 6 speed manual, I'd be very happy.....

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Ted Nugent is about as Republican as you can get and he's done more to help the environment than most tree hugging hippies.

Helping the environment shouldn't be about politics, it should be about keeping the earth clean and populated with healthy creatures. Anyway, enough ill-informed diatribes, ax grinding and stupid over simplification...

Does anyone know anything more about the state-by-state green-house gas rules the article talks about? Is is California that's pressing for this or what?

I do believe it's California, the Northeastern states and a few Southern states, about 20 in all.

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Here is the preview of the new fuel standards. I am not sure if GM even has a vehicle that meets them :scratchchin: maybe the Aveo and Cobalt:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24258714/

yeppie! /sarcasm with inflation that will happen in the next several years and these targets pushing cars more expensive ...hardly anyone will beable to afford them, or keep GM's cash flow in the black easily.

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So, let me get this straight, because I am a Republican I am an ecological terrorist who does not pay taxes, hates all minorities, thinks Gays and Lesbians are going to HELL, I Love Rush and O'Reily, and generally wants to destroy all of the world in order to make a buck, correct? Oh, and I know how to control a woman's coochy better than she does and because she us so irrational all the time, then I shall stop her from having any chance of having an abortion. Well, people I am pissed at your generaliazation of the members of the party. In an effort to be a more caring person like you Republican bashers, I will now think like a lib-tard for a minute:

-Jessie Jackson, Al Sharpton, Hillary and Bill are all the saviors of the world...OH! and Obama! By the way - all of the people on that short list of Liberals is a wealthy person well beyond my means that made the money off of the people's back that they pretend to care about. Ted Kennedy is a better swimmer than a drunk. Remember that. Also, name one contribution to society that any ONE of these individuals EVER made to our society. One. I can wait...

-Killing unborn babies is good, But killing skull f@#king child molesters or people who prey on the innocent is BAD. Personally I could care less about abortion - if you want one, go for it - BUT DO NOT ASK ME TO PAY FOR IT AS A MEANS FOR YOU TO HAVE BIRTH CONTROL. It is YOUR choice. You live with it. Criminals on the other hand, kill them after conviction of violent crime. Liberals choose to give the criminals RIGHTS and have even chosen to let them VOTE again. Where is the penalty for doing injustice? Only the victims pay in our society run by the liberals (they hold the courts).

-Oil Companies and companies that produce products are BAD, right? High taxes on those individuals and corporations is good and they should be raised, right? So - where did all the jobs go? AWAY! YAY! Good thing too, because the caribou would never forgive us. No war for oil? Then QUIT BITCHING ABOUT THE COST OF OIL AND GAS. WE HAVE TO GET IT SOMEWHERE - EITHER WE BUY IT ON THE WORLD MARKET, or we drill for it. The WAR is about terrorism and the stabilization of the Middle east in order to keep the market stabilized. OPEC has us by the balls and is standing with the arab brethren in protest of the war, hence the high prices which is further augmented by huge demand in developing countries. The US is an OIL BASED Economy. Without the oil and the manufacturing jobs it provides, the country is DONE. This is an AUTOMOTIVE site, correct? These same liberal people are the screamers of Global Warming and are the idiots DEMANDING higher CAFE standards while they fly around on our dimes in Gulfstreams and other private jets. If you side with these people, you deserve the Trabant or Smart FourTwo they MAY allow you to drive someday.

-Rich people will always find a way to remain so - Socialism (Liberalism, same thing) will never work in this country because of that very simple fact. The money will leave, investments will stop, and the country will fail. The very people you intend to vote for are the very people who want to see Socialism take hold in this country. They don't want YOU to have a car - the bus THEY provide YOU with YOUR tax dollars will do you just fine. By the way folks on the LEFT...socialism has failed in EVERY country that it is tried in. Same goes for Socialized Medicine. Niether system works - IT HAS BEEN PROVEN time and time again. Ask Canada - " Brain Tumor? We can Operate in 6-8 weeks, maybe more, take a number and wait over there!"

- So, the next time you bash a republican, remember, the chances are that republican owns a company that is providing a job or jobs to somebody, and that by raising taxes on that person's company, somebody is going to loose thier job in order to pay for that increase.

In an effort to help you understand liberalism better from a Republican's point of view: Think of liberals as Union Leaders striking against G.M. (the Republicans) and doing what they can to bring down the mighty and bad polution making company. When they get the task done, and there is no company to attack - who is it that will be paying the taxes they need for the socialist programs and ideals that they cling to?

And NO, I do not own a GUN RACK, nor do I preach fire and brimstone, nor do I think destruction of the world's ecology is a wise practice. I do not hate gays or lesbians, again, it is your choice and your lifestyle - I don;t go waving my Hetero-I-am-Married-with-kids-banner in your face, so please keep your rainbow to yourself. I am happy you are happy, really. I also do not think Bush is as big an idiot as all of you claim he is either when I compare him to the likes of Barbara Boxer, Al Gore, Hillary, Nancy Pelosi or Jimmy Carter for all of thier completely flawed ideals and programs that do nothing but place a burden on the taxpayers of this country and do NOTHING to help those they intend to. And no, I also do not think that the Republicans are much better at solving much either.

Remember my motto at the end of this rant: Those that Can - DO! Those That can't - Teach, And those who cannot do either are Politicians. Politicians are nothing more than Welfare Recipients who figured out how to work the system better than anyone else. That is why they are so loyal to those 'beneath' them, it keeps them in a job.

Edited by toesuf94
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The proposal (it still has to attract comment and feedback and finally approval before it takes affect), shifts cars to the similar footprint-based targets as light trucks. Footprint is based on wheelbase times track in square feet, rounded to the nearest tenth. The formula is continuous rather than segment-based, with different targets for cars and light trucks only, updated every year. Essentially every car has its own fuel economy target to meet, as as long as, on average, you meet the targets for each vehicle, you're sweet. Every year has a maximum expected fuel economy a vehicle has to meet, adjusted downward by footprint, and a minimum target that you have to meet as well. The idea is that a company should be free to make only the most fuel efficient fullsize truck possible, and not be forced to sell a potentially under-performing subcompact to balance the numbers.

As a result there is an inherent bonus built in for rwd cars because of their longer wheelbase. Longer wheelbase = larger footprint and thus a lower target to meet. For e.g. a 2009 Nissan Maxima would have to meet a target of 32.9 mpg (the minimum CAFE required for a manufacturer's passenger fleet) by 2015, but a Pontiac G8 would only have to make 31.4 mpg. A Chevy Impale must make 32.7 mpg, a Dodge Charger 31.2 mpg. For sedans the maximum target in 2015 will be 41.7 mpg, required of cars like the late Echo sedan. An Aveo or Accent etc. would typically have to achieve 41.6 mpg, if that's all a company offered. A Maybach or Phantom in contrast would only have to meet 31.2 mpg (the minimum required by an individual vehicle—the same as the Charger), as long as Daimler could sell enough cars with better than 32.9 mpg to balance it. For trucks there is only an individual vehicle target, by 2015 ranging from 34.3 mpg (only the Indonesian Suzuki Katana is small enough to warrant that target) to as low as 24.8 mpg for the longest-wheelbase fullsize vans (and it would have to be a monster). The average GMC Yukon XL would have to make 25.4 mpg.

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So,....................

That is why they are so loyal to those 'beneath' them, it keeps them in a job.

so maybe you're more of a libertarian.....?

but to sum up at least one idea you seem to have... politicians are sworn into office by pledging to uphold the constitution. i'd guess something like 97% of them totally fail at that.

the only thing sad i think, about this day, are people that tell other people to waste, just to spite "earth day". I don't care if you choose to for yourself. just don't get sheeple to join in your irresponsible behaviors.

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so maybe you're more of a libertarian.....?

but to sum up at least one idea you seem to have... politicians are sworn into office by pledging to uphold the constitution. i'd guess something like 97% of them totally fail at that.

the only thing sad i think, about this day, are people that tell other people to waste, just to spite "earth day". I don't care if you choose to for yourself. just don't get sheeple to join in your irresponsible behaviors.

You are being too kind...I would say that 99.9% of all politicians, on either side of the isle, fail at upholding the Constitution or doing the will of the people. I cannot think of a single tax paying American who ever thought that giving a politician a raise at the beginning of each year/term was a good idea. And that is only 1 example. Taxes, are another.

And since this is an automotive web site, can ANYONE tell me why the infrastructure of the U.S. is failing with the amount of tax dollars per DAY being collected through the gasoline tax?

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It can present a problem for 2-seat sports cars though—by 2015 a Corvette, in its current form, would have to average as much as 39.2 mpg, a Viper 40.7 mpg, a Gallardo 38 mpg, a Murcielargo 32.5 mpg. An MX-5's target would be the maximum 41.7 mpg, and a Solstice not much lower than that.

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You are being too kind...I would say that 99.9% of all politicians, on either side of the isle, fail at upholding the Constitution or doing the will of the people. I cannot think of a single tax paying American who ever thought that giving a politician a raise at the beginning of each year/term was a good idea. And that is only 1 example. Taxes, are another.

And since this is an automotive web site, can ANYONE tell me why the infrastructure of the U.S. is failing with the amount of tax dollars per DAY being collected through the gasoline tax?

As citizens, I think we deserve to see an accounting breakdown of precisely where th gas tax is going...doesn't seem to go to paving the roads...

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