Read This!

[Camino LS6]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion...,0,481881.story

[SuperSport623]

we need to embrace ethanol with full force... its our only hope in really having an effect on OPEC....itd be nice for some money to actually stay here then to be carried away to the middle east

[Camino LS6]

we need to embrace ethanol with full force... its our only hope in really having an effect on OPEC....itd be nice for some money to actually stay here then to be carried away to the middle east

A key point many miss entirely.

[A Horse With No Name]

Ethanol or a product like ti IS the wave of the future. Bazil gets a huge portion of there energy from ethanol, there is no reason we can't do the same.

Chris

[Drew Dowdell]

Equally as important to recognize.

[Intrepidation]

Seems that Algae is the way to go. Wood waste isn't a viable alternative because many industries actually use wood waste.

[Drew Dowdell]

Actually, I think having a system that accepts multiple kinds of raw materials is the best.

Kelp isn't on the list but I suspect it's returns are similar to Algae. Ideally, a facility that can accept kelp, algae, switch grass, wood/brewery byproducts, and yard waste would be ideal.

[Intrepidation]

Actually, I think having a system that accepts multiple kinds of raw materials is the best.

Kelp isn't on the list but I suspect it's returns are similar to Algae. Ideally, a facility that can accept kelp, algae, switch grass, wood/brewery byproducts, and yard waste would be ideal.

Agreed.

[ZL-1]

Water use in producing ethanol is high. As water resources become scarce, the ethanol vs. food debate can also become an ethanol vs. drinking water debate.

[Intrepidation]

I still think Hydrogen is the long term energy source we should be working towards.

[roadwarrior]

I still think Hydrogen is the long term energy source we should be working towards.

Hydrogen from what source? Water? Same problems as ethanol there, not to mention huge amounts of energy having to go into the process. Clean, yes. Lots of issues as far as viability go.

[Drew Dowdell]

Water use in producing ethanol is high. As water resources become scarce, the ethanol vs. food debate can also become an ethanol vs. drinking water debate.

Again, when corn isn't the source of raw material, the "badness" of ethanol goes away.

You don't need to irrigate kelp or algae.

[Drew Dowdell]

Hydrogen from what source? Water? Same problems as ethanol there, not to mention huge amounts of energy having to go into the process. Clean, yes. Lots of issues as far as viability go.

Hydrogen can now be produced using a bio-chemical process involving a certain type of bacteria which allows production of hydrogen resulting in energy output hundreds of times the energy input required.

Additionally, hydrogen can be produced from salt water if need be.

[Camino LS6]

Don't forget garbage and old tires as a feedstock for ethanol.

[A Horse With No Name]

Thanks for keeping us posted on this stuff, Oldsmoboi...

Excellent Ammo for my use against republican friends who say that Biofuels can never work.

Chris

[loki]

Don't forget garbage, old tires, anything carbon based as a feedstock for renewable diesel.

fixed

camino, you see my last post in that other thread where i think resulted in this threads making?

[Camino LS6]

Been a bit busy today, will check it out though.

[Intrepidation]

Hydrogen from what source? Water? Same problems as ethanol there, not to mention huge amounts of energy having to go into the process. Clean, yes. Lots of issues as far as viability go.

In addition to water Olsmoboi already said, don;t forget that the exhaust from hydrogen power is water vapor.

Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe, it can be used in a variety of applications from fuel cell to ICEs, and it produces not harmful emissions. It's the clear choice assuming a hydrogen infrastructure is ever actually set up and the price of teh technology becomes more affordable.

[Blake Noble]

Don't forget garbage and old tires as a feedstock for ethanol.

Also: the plastics used to make car interiors.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7btM2RlLzI

If you can, take the time out to watch the other five videos accompanying that one from The Discovery Channel's Future Car miniseries. The third episode was focused on BioFuels.

[stillen]

we need to embrace ethanol with full force... its our only hope in really having an effect on OPEC....itd be nice for some money to actually stay here then to be carried away to the middle east

NO !!!

IF we devoted the whole corn crop to Ethanol it would acount for 18% of our fuel supply; Ethanol is a FOOLS Errand.

Algae is the way to go We have plent y of Oil if we would just use it and Explore for it.

We have have enough COAL in the US to last us 200 hundred years.

Does that sound enough of eve=nergy to get us int the newer so speak fuels I think so.

[siegen]

I do agree with what the article says about flex-fuel. As far as Ethanol doing more good than harm, I think that is very hypothetical. We have seen the harm, but we can only guess at the alternative. Things may have been much worse without ethanol, or they may have been better. Either way, we should not be using a source of food as fuel; getting alternative sources of ethanol online and working, in mass quantities, is the only way to create any sort of competition with oil.

[Drew Dowdell]

Ethanol getting even greener - PDF Warning!

Ethanol yield per bushel of corn increased 6.4% for dry mills and 2.4% for wet

mills.

• Total energy use (fossil and electricity) decreased 21.8% in dry mills and 7.2% in

wet mills from 2001 survey.

• Another major change from 2001 survey is 15.7% decrease in grid electricity use

in dry mills.

• There is a shift in process fuel use from coal to natural gas in the dry mills.

• More than one third (37%) of the dried distillers grains with solubles (DDGS), the

feed co-product of dry mill ethanol production, was sold as wet feed which

reduces heat demand in the plant.

• CO2 collection and production as a co-product is on the rise that a total of 23.5%

of the ethanol production capacities responded exported CO2.

• Finally, water consumption in dry mills decreased 26.6% from 2001 survey.

[FUTURE_OF_GM]

I fear that the anti-american politicians will derail the biofuel movement (No doubt big oil is in their pockets) These are the same people that call the farmers "lazy" and the same people that completely outsourced the middle class.

I'll wait and see and hope for the best. But my gut instinct is that the OBVIOUS solution to our problems will NOT be the solution chosen. It is washington after all, anything that makes too much sense is never utilized.

[loki]

monitary devaluation is what is pushing this anti oil movement, for price reasons.

[Sixty8panther]

Food for thought.... fuel for debate. :wink: